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Old 07-15-2005, 11:57 AM   #1
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Stock vs Aftermarket

Man, I really think Ford should re-think their offerings on stock vehicles. It's no wonder the 03/04s have issues with heat soak and frying pistons when you compare the stock offering to the aftermarket. Time to ditch the bean counters I think.

Check out how the upgrades will look compared to stock. I swear there is some sort of conspiracy that the aftermarket is paying ford to skimp out. lol.

The only comparison I don't have is for the intercooler resevoir. I am going with the vortech unit which mounts in, and is the same size as, the batter location. The battery must be moved to the trunk. But, the vortech version will hold 6 pounds of ice with a nice large fill hole to get the ice in there. The stocker? Well, you could probably get a 32 oz cup of ice in it....maybe.

/rant

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Old 07-15-2005, 12:31 PM   #2
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Dude the stock radiators do fine. There is always going to be beefy aftermarket stuff because they see people like you coming. Bigger is not always better just more expensive. I agree the Car companies do skimp where they can but not where it will bite them in the ***. Take your Cobra, they chunked the aluminum block which could have handled the HP and went to a Cast Iron block. Why???? So they did not have warranty engine issues. Like I said they do skimp in some areas but they dont where it really counts. The truth is most of the aftermarket suspension and rearend stuff people buy is useless because 90% will never go to a track to really push it. Lets face it quite a few mods are for bragging only.
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Old 07-15-2005, 12:54 PM   #3
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if only they didn't go to the hypereucraptic pistons and rods in the GT's
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Old 07-15-2005, 01:01 PM   #4
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if ford didnt have the bean counters the mustang would cost as much as as a camro z28 and we all know what happend to them... lol you have to draw the line some where, but I would be willing to pay extra on the cobra model for better upgrades myself as Im sure others would as well. They are just trying to make a profit though, thats it and thats all.
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Old 07-15-2005, 01:06 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whipster24
if only they didn't go to the hypereucraptic pistons and rods in the GT's
Why is that a problem. They are great for N/A and the fact is less than 1% of the mustang GT owners will put Nitrous or a superchargers on their cars.

So in what world does less than 1% of anything drive bean counters or manufacturers to upgrade internal components. Engineers realize most heavy modders will build the engines up anyway
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Old 07-15-2005, 06:44 PM   #6
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nice carpet. do you have little hot wheels cars you zip around town street racing each other?
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Old 07-16-2005, 02:34 AM   #7
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man i used to have that carpet mat when i was a kid. kicked major ***.

but aftermarket is there for a reason. if the car came super modded from the get go itd cost 100k and wouldnt be as fun. and who cares what the people who mod the cars think, they hardly make any money from them. not everyone buys a car to make it fast, and car modders only account for a very, very very small slice of the pie. prolly like 1 in 50 cars are modded, and prolly 1 out of 500 has more than a fart can or filter.

the factory builds them as they see fit. a cobra isnt really intended to be a 500hp super beast, its intended for those who a GT just isnt enough. and a GT is for those who a v6 just isnt enough.
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Old 07-16-2005, 05:27 AM   #8
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You have to realize who Ford builds cars for.

the average joe. Most people I see driving Mustangs are female and I'd venture the percentage of them modding a Stang is pretty low. So why build a car for the 1% that might throw something at it out of the ordinary? Trust me, if the Mustang wasn't what most buyers wanted they'd not sell. Problem is you expect more and it really isn't as profitable to build it to make you happy. That's leaves you to get it done.
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Old 07-16-2005, 06:40 AM   #9
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Most buyers of cars are looking at the looks and milage. I'm glad mine didn't come modded out of the box. The pure fun and enjoyment has been learning and doing the mods myself.
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Old 07-16-2005, 11:31 AM   #10
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there are some things that would have been nice to have from the factory, like my stock interooler on my TC, it doesnt do jack **** under 45mph, and sits right on top of the turbo, so around the town, its an interheater, it doesnt do crap or help out with power at that point, even a small FMIC would have been great, the Probe GT Turbo's got a FMIC, and many other factory cars did, but the SVO and TC's got raped on that

while yes, Ford cant build a car to have 800hp from the factory, and be race ready, they could do a few things differently
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Old 07-16-2005, 12:38 PM   #11
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so do you pretend to drive around that little town when you aren't driving your real car?

what car models do you push around when you do? mustangs I'd hope

... ... do you make sound effects?
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Old 07-16-2005, 12:52 PM   #12
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Old 07-16-2005, 01:05 PM   #13
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I dont think he means for them to raise the cars above what is needed for normal daily driving, he is talking about how the oem parts are not up to par and they are having issues with the 03/04 cobra that even stock car owners will experience.
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Old 07-16-2005, 01:40 PM   #14
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Hey Brandon get this. People build cars and because of that they will have issues. The Cobra has no more issues than any other car when treated normally.

Top rated car manufacturer sold in the US based on quality

1 Lexus
2 Jaguar
3 BMW
4 Buick
5 Cadillac
6 Mercedes
7 Toyota
8 Audi
9 Infiniti
10 Hummer
11 Hyundai

Suprising GM beat Acura/Honda.This is the first time in recent memory that GM vehicles have outscored Honda and Acura on build quality as measured by the number of problems reported by consumers. Ford is in the way back of the pack right with Dodge.

http://channels.netscape.com/ns/auto...jdpowers_best1

See people have this opinion that imports are built better. Really well almost all imports including M/B and BMW are built here. The fact is GM builds great cars the style just seems to suck.
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Old 07-16-2005, 03:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpectorV
I dont think he means for them to raise the cars above what is needed for normal daily driving, he is talking about how the oem parts are not up to par and they are having issues with the 03/04 cobra that even stock car owners will experience.
I was saying that the cobra has issues, issues that are unique to it, and not even considering any of the other cars ford makes. I know the regular mustang and the GT are fine as they are and they dont need any upgrades unless parts being used are currently not doing what they need to do for normal driving characteristics. In this case the parts would not be upgrades but fixes.

The cobra has an issue, so I was informed by smufin. The issue, or at least one of the issues, is an overheating of the back two cylinders. This can be seen even in stock vehicles drove normally. The problem can cause issues, thus it should be fixed by ford. This was my point, nothing more. If the problem is there, and shows up with normal driving, ford should fix it.

Ford should do some testing to determine this of course to make sure it does happen. If it does happen then no matter how many soruces you post of quality goes totaly out the window. Quality is the measure of mean time between failures posted as an average that is taken from an overall selection.
In this case that would be Fords quality rating on every vehicle that will be calculated and returned as an average. Quality is the reliability of a vehicle to perform as intended under average characteristics with in a given time frame. This does not eliminate the issues that will be found. If the quality measure was only on 03/04 cobras then this problem would be far more visible if it exists.

That being said issues will be found, and when they are found if they are severe enough then they must be fixed. An issue has possibly been found and it should be fixed if it is proven to be a real problem and not just a couple people who just happen to have the same exact problem.
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Old 07-16-2005, 03:42 PM   #16
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Smurfin, do you know(or want to know) the biggest issue with the 03/04 cobra motors? And it's not the "tick" either..

The pistons to cylinder-wall clearance is soo tight that on ~500+hp applicaitons, the motor will grenade after a short amount of miles. SVT made the forged pistons so tight in the cylinders that on high-hp applications they are heating up and expanding and scouring the pistons/cylinder walls.

It kinda sucks, buts its true. Look at how many high hp applications last for more than like 30-40k miles.

edit- the thing is, this is a good idea of n/a applications..but on high-boost motors the combustion temps get so high that the pistons need more room to expand...
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Old 07-16-2005, 05:11 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stangin99
The pistons to cylinder-wall clearance is soo tight that on ~500+hp applicaitons, the motor will grenade after a short amount of miles. SVT made the forged pistons so tight in the cylinders that on high-hp applications they are heating up and expanding and scouring the pistons/cylinder walls.

Ok, here's the problem then. 500 hp ain't stock. Ford has to build all their cars to meet emissions standards and one of those ways is to build tight piston to wall clearances. It cuts down on unburned hydrocarbons. And yes the sniffer can tell when it's getting certified.

You see Ford HAS TO meet the emissions requirements AND meet them for 100k miles. Federal law makes them warrant all emissions parts for 100k miles. Which is why we have platinum plugs these days. Anyway, once you start fooling with the stock setup you are on your own and Ford can quite legally tell you that you are SOL if your 500 hp Cobra motor takes a dump. All they are required to do is certify and warrant the stock setup.
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Old 07-16-2005, 06:03 PM   #18
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Once again as Ponycarman and I have pointed out this is above normal engine use which is the cause of the problem. If you are going to create a monster engine with extreme HP you should always consider building a new engine and leaving the stock one alone and put it up. Normal passanger car and track use the stock engine on a 03/04 Cobra will last quite a while I bet. Really the only factory N/A engine I have ever seen that was built to take extreme HP is the Supra engine
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Old 07-16-2005, 06:55 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Really the only factory N/A engine I have ever seen that was built to take extreme HP is the Supra engine

Hemi

Top Fuel in the early days used stock block and heads with a blower and nitro to make insane amounts of HP. Of course that was back before CAD/CAM and emissions so things were overbuilt as a CYA. Even now making 500+ HP on those old 60's engines doesn't strain the engine as much because they were overbuilt back then.

Today with the various requirements almost all aspects of an automobile are built to just cover the expected load with a small cushion. Start hopping things up and then you push the limits. The old 5.0 was better at this beacuse it was designed in the early 60's (the 289) and refined from there so it still had the old overbuilt aspect to it. But even the 5.0 had it's limits, seen a few cranks blow out the bottom when pushed hard.
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Old 07-16-2005, 07:02 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponycarman
Hemi

Top Fuel in the early days used stock block and heads with a blower and nitro to make insane amounts of HP. Of course that was back before CAD/CAM and emissions so things were overbuilt as a CYA. Even now making 500+ HP on those old 60's engines doesn't strain the engine as much because they were overbuilt back then.

Today with the various requirements almost all aspects of an automobile are built to just cover the expected load with a small cushion. Start hopping things up and then you push the limits. The old 5.0 was better at this beacuse it was designed in the early 60's (the 289) and refined from there so it still had the old overbuilt aspect to it. But even the 5.0 had it's limits, seen a few cranks blow out the bottom when pushed hard.
Ok dont pull big muscle car engines from the late 60's and early 70's into this argument. I was referring to current modern engines BY GOD
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Old 07-16-2005, 07:07 PM   #21
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I understand the fact that 500hp isn't stock and you're pushing your luck with most stock parts.

It's just to put things in perspective for the cobra guys who are making 500+ rwhp that it won't last very long like that.

Hence, why I'm planning on buying an 01 cobra and dumping a VT engine into it
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Old 07-16-2005, 07:58 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stangin99
I understand the fact that 500hp isn't stock and you're pushing your luck with most stock parts.

It's just to put things in perspective for the cobra guys who are making 500+ rwhp that it won't last very long like that.

Hence, why I'm planning on buying an 01 cobra and dumping a VT engine into it

My opinion is If you are going to buy a 03/04 Cobra LEAVE THE DAMN MOTOR ALONE. Do some bolt on mods and a few suspension improvements then LEAVE THE ***** BE. As it is a stock 03/04 Cobra is faster than 99% of all the factory stock cars out there. With a simple exhaust and chip change you are at 400HP. Dammit most of you will never have a 400+ hp car no matter how much you dream. Now if you buy a 03/04 Cobra and want to race then buy a race motor and build it up.


But I like stangin99's Idea. Buy a older Cobra and build a monster motor for it. I would really like a 97-98 Cobra and build a motor for it or buy xtremejc 97 Supercharged Cobra
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Old 07-16-2005, 08:20 PM   #23
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Granted, I was merely explaining why they don't build them like they used to and why today's stuff is touchier to mod.

Steve
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Old 07-16-2005, 08:29 PM   #24
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Quote:
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Granted, I was merely explaining why they don't build them like they used to and why today's stuff is touchier to mod.

Steve

When talking to people my age and someone says "I was merely explaining" it is basically saying NANNY NANNY BOO BOO I am one up on you !!!!



HAHAHHAHAHHAA and you did !!!!
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Old 07-16-2005, 09:32 PM   #25
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Corey, you and I are about the same age so "NANNY NANNY BOO BOO I am one up on you !!!!", lol.

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Old 07-16-2005, 09:50 PM   #26
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Corey, you and I are about the same age so "NANNY NANNY BOO BOO I am one up on you !!!!", lol.

Steve

SEE I TOLD YOU !!!! ARRGGHHHH!!!!
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Old 07-16-2005, 09:50 PM   #27
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haha i love the mat you have the IC's sitting on. i used to have one when i was like 5...

but ya it seems stock sucks for a good number of parts, but for just as many they always beat out aftermarket.
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Old 07-16-2005, 09:53 PM   #28
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My son has that mat. He plays with his Johnny Lightnings, Which are way better detailed, and hot wheels on it. I by him all the cool ones.
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Old 07-17-2005, 12:31 AM   #29
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Quote:
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My son has that mat. He plays with his Johnny Lightnings, Which are way better detailed, and hot wheels on it. I by him all the cool ones.
i dont like Johnny Lightnings too much, im a Racing Champions fan
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Old 07-17-2005, 08:48 AM   #30
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i dont like Johnny Lightnings too much, im a Racing Champions fan
Good for you
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