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Old 08-10-2005, 07:28 PM   #1
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Need legal consultation...any legal eagles around?

The son of one of my parents friends was recently arrested back in NY. The cops in that town have been proven to be extremely shady in many ways. It is a small po-dunk town with lots of shady activities. This leads me to ask a couple of questions.

Basically, when he was arrested, he was not read his rights. I do not know if he was questioned after the fact or not. However, when he was arrested, he asked why he was being arrested (in front of 6 other witnesses), he was told "you don't need to know".

Ok, I was under the impression you need to be read your rights when arrested. After doing some searching through the donut shop on SVTP, it appears that is only if he is questioned about the crime. However, isn't it required that you be told why you are being arrested?

Just for the record, he is being arrested for rape. I don't know the details of the situation beyond the no rights and not being informed of the reason for arrest so I am not going to make judgement. However, based on the other 3 times the cops tried to frame him, I am thinking this one is trumped up as well.

Any input will be greatly appreciated.






As a side note, to give you an idea of the quality of ociffers I am talking about, they used him once to buy coke from a local dealer. They had him wired and everything. When the bust happed, they nailed the dealer for selling, AND him for buying...all the while he is wearing their wire. Nice huh. Needless to say, the confiscated the coke, and then sold it the following week...oh yeah, they are the largest supplier of drugs in the town too.
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Old 08-10-2005, 08:22 PM   #2
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Re: Need legal consultation...any legal eagles around?

crooked *** pigs should all be castrated
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Old 08-11-2005, 12:35 AM   #3
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Re: Need legal consultation...any legal eagles around?

Well, if he isn't read his miranda rights then anything he says can be tossed out. However, you had best advise him to get an attorney right quick and to STFU with anybody but that attorney.

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Old 08-11-2005, 12:43 AM   #4
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Re: Need legal consultation...any legal eagles around?

basically because of the fact that his miranda rights were not read, most likely the case will be thrown out...all evidence up until court will basically become null and void. Also, because the officers did not tell him why he was being arrested is another good reason for the case to not go though--no offense to the kid but if he really did commit rape it sucks that there are cops out there stupid enough that when they don't follow procedure, serious crimes can just go away for the offenders
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Old 08-11-2005, 06:33 AM   #5
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Re: Need legal consultation...any legal eagles around?

Well I hate to burst your bubble guys but the miranda law has been tackled by the supreme court and they said it in itself is not justification for release of a suspect. You have the right to remain silent.

NOT.

Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law.

UNLESS you can prove we used coercion.

You have the right to speak to an attorney, and to have an attorney present during any questioning.

IF you are smart enough to ask for one.

If you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be provided for you at government expense.

IF we decide to charge you with a criminal act.

So ruled the Supreme Court Justices, on May 27, 2003, as they dismissed the foundation of the Miranda Law, in a 6-3 decision, led by Justice Clarence Thomas, in the case of Chavez v. Martinez (No. 01-1444).

You guys watch to much television?????
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Old 08-11-2005, 08:21 AM   #6
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Re: Need legal consultation...any legal eagles around?

Granted the "miranda rights" issue has lost strength, the miranda decision has never been overturned. Chavez v Martinez had to do with coersive interrogation and 5th amendment violations, at no time did the SC overturn the Miranda decision. Actually as we speak hundreds of criminals are being released from prision here in Florida because the Broward Sheriff's Office ommited one word on their "Miranda warnings" cards.
Miranda "kicks in" when interrogation starts, the fact that he was not read his rights at the time of arrest will not be a reason for immidiate dismisal of the case.
Under the 6th amendment of the Constitution he has the right to be advised of the charges against him, it is not necessary for charges to have been filed for an arrest to take place. Once charges are filed (ussually by the DA) he will be advised of the charges against him during arraingment and he will enter a plea.
With that said. If he commited rape, I hope he rots in jail.
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Old 08-11-2005, 08:35 AM   #7
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Re: Need legal consultation...any legal eagles around?

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Granted the "miranda rights" issue has lost strength, the miranda decision has never been overturned. Chavez v Martinez had to do with coersive interrogation and 5th amendment violations, at no time did the SC overturn the Miranda decision. Actually as we speak hundreds of criminals are being released from prision here in Florida because the Broward Sheriff's Office ommited one word on their "Miranda warnings" cards.
Miranda "kicks in" when interrogation starts, the fact that he was not read his rights at the time of arrest will not be a reason for immidiate dismisal of the case.
Under the 6th amendment of the Constitution he has the right to be advised of the charges against him, it is not necessary for charges to have been filed for an arrest to take place. Once charges are filed (ussually by the DA) he will be advised of the charges against him during arraingment and he will enter a plea.
With that said. If he commited rape, I hope he rots in jail.
Exactly if he is not charged yet they really dont have to read him his rights
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Old 08-11-2005, 08:35 AM   #8
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Re: Need legal consultation...any legal eagles around?

actually with the miranda rights, i learned about it in my criminal justice classes, but that was a couple of years ago
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Old 08-11-2005, 08:42 AM   #9
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Re: Need legal consultation...any legal eagles around?

They do have to read him his "miranda rights" if they plan on interrogating him, but once he says "I wan a lawyer" they better stop that interrogation.
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Old 08-11-2005, 08:58 AM   #10
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Re: Need legal consultation...any legal eagles around?

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They do have to read him his "miranda rights" if they plan on interrogating him, but once he says "I wan a lawyer" they better stop that interrogation.

No they can ask questions and until he says he wants a lawyer they can continue. This only hold for only US citizens now as The Patriot Act does not provide the same measure of rights to non citizens. Also in a 1997 ruling they said if a person turns himself in and confesses to be guilty the miranda rule goes out the door
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Old 08-11-2005, 09:03 AM   #11
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Re: Need legal consultation...any legal eagles around?

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No they can ask questions and until he says he wants a lawyer they can continue. This only hold for only US citizens now as The Patriot Act does not provide the same measure of rights to non citizens. Also in a 1997 ruling they said if a person turns himself in and confesses to be guilty the miranda rule goes out the door
I think you said "no" but agreed with me . You are correct they can ask questions but first they do have to advise him of his right not to incriminate himself and to have a lawyer present="miranda rights"
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Old 08-11-2005, 09:06 AM   #12
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Re: Need legal consultation...any legal eagles around?

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actually with the miranda rights, i learned about it in my criminal justice classes, but that was a couple of years ago
Sounds cool, did u ever finish that? if not, do u plan to? I have a B.A. in Criminal Justice
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Old 08-11-2005, 09:36 AM   #13
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Re: Need legal consultation...any legal eagles around?

i finish my psych degree next week and hopefully all goes well with going to be a state trooper
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Old 08-11-2005, 09:45 AM   #14
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Re: Need legal consultation...any legal eagles around?

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i finish my psych degree next week and hopefully all goes well with going to be a state trooper
Sounds like a good plan, good luck
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Old 08-11-2005, 11:21 AM   #15
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Re: Need legal consultation...any legal eagles around?

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I think you said "no" but agreed with me . You are correct they can ask questions but first they do have to advise him of his right not to incriminate himself and to have a lawyer present="miranda rights"
Right, if they don't do the rights, anything he says is null and void. It doesn't affect the case other than anything he says or admits to is inadmisable. That was held up in a SC decision back in 1997. I forgot the case, but, it was held up in a 7-2 decision. I was more interested in the reason for arrest. I didn't think you could be arrested and not told why.

And, just for the record, I am not trying to get the kid out of trouble. I am trying to find info for his mother to help her calm down. He has been in trouble for years, and has been told repeatedly to stay away from various people. His lawyer even told him to move out of the town because the cops continue to trump up charges against him, follow him, etc. I don't know what he did to piss them off, but he did piss them off. As for the rape, he is being accused by his ex girlfriend. They had a not so amicable break up, and well, I think the charges are false but the cops were just chomping at the bit waiting for something like this. In fact, another guy was arrested for his 2nd rape case, was let out on 2500 bail. This kid is accused of his first rape, and is being held without bail. Figure that one out. The DA is also going to ask he get "the maximum" which he claims is 42-50 years. Not sure what planet this guy is from, but, rape does not hold a penalty of 50 years. However, I do think he needs to spend some time in jail just to learn he doesn't know everything.

Ok, carry on.
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Old 08-11-2005, 12:03 PM   #16
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Re: Need legal consultation...any legal eagles around?

Rights ?? Bottom line is if the cops are out to get ya !!! Your screwed !!! I did 4.5 yrs in a Arizona State Prision on drug & weapon charges ,Cause the cops lied their *** off I'm not saying I was a saint But what I did time for was complete BS
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Old 08-11-2005, 12:10 PM   #17
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Re: Need legal consultation...any legal eagles around?

everyone has rights, if the police "lie their *** off" and you still get convicted, I would blame your defense attorney
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Old 08-11-2005, 02:39 PM   #18
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Re: Need legal consultation...any legal eagles around?

one question.......If the cops are always after this kid and don't like him, why the hell would they have him cooperate to do undercover police work?? Especially why would the kid agree if he's a trouble maker and tries to avoid police??? i've never heard of a citizen going under cover for a coke deal.

getting caught for coke is a much bigger issue since it's a hardcore drug. it's not like you get a ticket and a slap on the wrist. I mean seriously his lawyer must really suck if he couldn't pull him out of that jam. and how do you know the police took the coke and sold it later on?? This is starting to sound like a myth to me. (the part about the cops)

p.s. if he is guilty for rape i hope he serves his time and gets raped in prison so he knows what it's like. i F'n hate rapist.
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Old 08-11-2005, 02:41 PM   #19
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Re: Need legal consultation...any legal eagles around?

Just show how little you know about the good ole boy system of law
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Old 08-11-2005, 02:51 PM   #20
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Re: Need legal consultation...any legal eagles around?

it's plausible but still doesn't make complete sense. the whole police department there has to be crooked since they all have to report to someone. especially when they're doing a "sting" operation like that. like i said his lawyer must not know much.
i guess i would have a bias opinion toward police too if i served 4.5 years.
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Old 08-11-2005, 02:53 PM   #21
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Re: Need legal consultation...any legal eagles around?

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one question.......If the cops are always after this kid and don't like him, why the hell would they have him cooperate to do undercover police work?? Especially why would the kid agree if he's a trouble maker and tries to avoid police??? i've never heard of a citizen going under cover for a coke deal.
getting caught for coke is a much bigger issue since it's a hardcore drug. it's not like you get a ticket and a slap on the wrist. I mean seriously his lawyer must really suck if he couldn't pull him out of that jam. and how do you know the police took the coke and sold it later on?? This is starting to sound like a myth to me. (the part about the cops)
p.s. if he is guilty for rape i hope he serves his time and gets raped in prison so he knows what it's like. i F'n hate rapist.
Because up until last year I too lived in that town. It is a known fact that the police in that town sell the drugs that they collect. They can been seen late at night making the deals on our 2 signal light main street. Out in plain view mind you, because, after all, who is going to call the cops on the cops?

Why did he go "undercover" for them? Because they said if he didn't, then he would go to jail for something else they had trumped up. They had him go under because they wanted to arrest him. Simple as that. He is not the only person to be setup in this manner. All 3 cases have been thrown out by the way.

The town used to have a detective. That position was removed because the detective was not crooked. He blew in a number of the occifers of the town.

As for why he can't get out of things. He has which I think is the problem the cops are having. They keep trumping up charges, but nothing will stick. Hell, even the judge is crooked. He owns a farm and employs over 30 mexicans...none are legal. He was busted by INS a few years back, quit being a judge, and made a documented statement in print and on tv that if any of those guys want to come back to work, he will get them back here. Yeah, he is a real straight shooter. lol

When I tell you the cops in this town are crooked, believe me they are. It is a town of 5000 people, you know everyone. K-12 only has 800 kids enrolled this year. When something goes down there, you know about it. The people have brought it to a vote to remove the police force 6 times that I am aware of. They want the county sherrifs to handle police work since that is who usually responds to calls anyhow.

I could go on and on about all of the shady dealings they have been PROVEN to be part of. This kid should have left town when his lawyer told him to. Instead, now he has rape on his plate.

The kid has a lot of potential. he is a wiz when it comes to any kind of engine. He has just hung with the wrong crowd too long and probably mouthed off too many times.
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Old 08-11-2005, 03:04 PM   #22
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Re: Need legal consultation...any legal eagles around?

I_luv_HP&trq you need a reality check !!! Quite a few Cop our nothing more then border line crooks & when they see a chance to make money they take no matter who they **** over
I feel sorry for the kid if he didn't do it Sopund slike the cop got his girl friend to press charge or they **** with her life It happens all the time
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Old 08-11-2005, 03:08 PM   #23
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Re: Need legal consultation...any legal eagles around?

it sure sounds like something out of a movie but i'll believe you.
if the cops are making a huge amount of money off the drugs, someone should get word to the IRS and have them track their spending habbits since cops don't have a large income to begin with, they would have to explain any large or multiple expenses. i know there isn't an easy solution. not everyone who has a legal position in the U.S. is crooked. there has to be someone that can do that.
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Old 08-11-2005, 03:10 PM   #24
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Re: Need legal consultation...any legal eagles around?

you can find "crooked" individuals in any position in life. I don't beleive generalizing all police officers as "crooked" is fair. And besides when the few "crooked" officers are found out they are prosecuted as any other criminal, and that's all u see in the news. you don't see the everyday good they do for all of us
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Old 08-11-2005, 03:13 PM   #25
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Re: Need legal consultation...any legal eagles around?

Just for the record, I am not lumping all cops into the bad apple box. I am however lumping all of the cops from my home town into that box because the good ones always transfer out due to not wanted to be associated. The total police force is 8 people. I will even go as far as lumping in the villiage judge into the bad apple box as well as the clerk of courts who embezzled $250k from the villiage...but she got caught. Oh yeah, and she did no time for it.
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Old 08-11-2005, 03:14 PM   #26
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Re: Need legal consultation...any legal eagles around?

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it sure sounds like something out of a movie but i'll believe you.
if the cops are making a huge amount of money off the drugs, someone should get word to the IRS and have them track their spending habbits since cops don't have a large income to begin with, they would have to explain any large or multiple expenses. i know there isn't an easy solution. not everyone who has a legal position in the U.S. is crooked. there has to be someone that can do that.
well I'm gonna have to go with u on this one. I know law enforcement uses informants, but putting someone on the line by sending him to buy drugs?? isn't that what they have their own undercover officers for? i dunno, i don't beleive that part either. but u never know I guess we could be wrong.
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Old 08-11-2005, 03:15 PM   #27
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Re: Need legal consultation...any legal eagles around?

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Just for the record, I am not lumping all cops into the bad apple box. I am however lumping all of the cops from my home town into that box because the good ones always transfer out due to not wanted to be associated. The total police force is 8 people. I will even go as far as lumping in the villiage judge into the bad apple box as well as the clerk of courts who embezzled $250k from the villiage...but she got caught. Oh yeah, and she did no time for it.
yeah I got that from your posts, my response was not directed to you. I just wonder how come is it that people that have had trouble with the law always blame the "cops", and not themselves
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Old 08-11-2005, 03:20 PM   #28
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Re: Need legal consultation...any legal eagles around?

Because I am above the law dammit!!!! The man is out to get me!!!!! Where the hell did undercover brotha go?

As for you undercover post above, our police force is 8 people. Everyone in town knows who the cops are. The dealers all live in the town. Everyone would know who the UC agent is if they used them as a sting. However, using a civilian would not be as obvious. Civilian informants are used in many situations even in big cities. It is not always a UC agent. However, this is podunkville...lots of different rules when you live in a town with a 5:1 cow to person ratio.
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Old 08-11-2005, 03:30 PM   #29
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Re: Need legal consultation...any legal eagles around?

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Because I am above the law dammit!!!! The man is out to get me!!!!! Where the hell did undercover brotha go?

As for you undercover post above, our police force is 8 people. Everyone in town knows who the cops are. The dealers all live in the town. Everyone would know who the UC agent is if they used them as a sting. However, using a civilian would not be as obvious. Civilian informants are used in many situations even in big cities. It is not always a UC agent. However, this is podunkville...lots of different rules when you live in a town with a 5:1 cow to person ratio.
@ 5:1 cow to person ratio..that was awsome
sounds like your town's PD needs to be taken over by the sheriff's office.
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OK you are right!!! Maybe I am the Old Crazy One
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Old 08-11-2005, 03:39 PM   #30
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Re: Need legal consultation...any legal eagles around?

They have tried, and it keeps getting voted down.

And yes, when I left it was about a 5:1 cow to person ratio...oh yeah, that is only including those that are being milked, not the dry cows, heffers, calves, and bulls. Last I knew our county was the second largest dairy county in the country. lol.
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