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View Poll Results: If marijuana was legal, would you smoke it?
Sure, it's legal so smoking it wouldn't be against the law. 10 35.71%
No, even if it's legal, it's just bad news. 18 64.29%
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Old 12-09-2005, 06:44 PM   #71
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Re: Here's an interesting question for you..

I believe, if anything, just looking at the Netherlands could tell us a little of what a society would be like with marijuana legallized.

I got this bit off some.. url.. but it's legit.

A distinction is drawn between hard drugs (which bear "unacceptable" risks; e.g. cocaine, heroin and ecstasy) and soft drugs such as the psychedelic psilocybin mushrooms as well as cannabis products: hashish and marijuana (as defined in the Dutch Opium Act). The distinction is drawn on whether the substance is only psychologically addictive (i.e. producing no worse effect than moderate craving when withdrawn) or also physically addictive (i.e. there is solid proof the drug could cause dangerous withdrawal symptoms and/or lasting physical damage). One of the main aims of this policy is to separate the markets for soft and hard drugs so that soft drug users are less likely to come into contact with hard drugs. This policy also aims to take the soft drug market out of the hands of the criminals, thus reducing crime.

So-called coffee shops are allowed to sell soft drugs openly, and to keep supplies greater than the amounts allowed by law for personal use, though they are only allowed to sell individual customers the amount allowed for personal use. The coffeeshops' wholesale suppliers, however, are still criminalized. In practice, the limit of the "for personal use" clause is 5 cannabis plants per person for growing, or possession of 5 grams of hashish or marijuana per person. Example of sentence in 2004 for possession of 360 grams: confiscation and a fine of €750. Coffeeshops pay taxes just like any other business, though there are some special exemptions for them, mostly because they cannot show receipts for their supply of marijuana.

Large-scale dealing, production, import and export are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, even if this does not supply end users or coffeeshops with more than the allowed amounts. Exactly how coffeeshops get their supplies is rarely investigated, however. What is certain is that coffeeshops do sell cannabis that comes from countries where it is illegal. Large suppliers tend to be criminals motivated by profit who do not make the distinction between hard and soft drugs. Hence, the soft drug policy, by failing to address the issue of supply, has made the Netherlands the main centre for hard drug trafficking in Europe. Creating a highly controlled, legal production chain for cannabis to combat this problem has been proposed by a number of Dutch politicians over the last few years, so far without results.
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Old 12-09-2005, 07:22 PM   #72
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Re: Here's an interesting question for you..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph
I believe, if anything, just looking at the Netherlands could tell us a little of what a society would be like with marijuana legallized.

I got this bit off some.. url.. but it's legit.

A distinction is drawn between hard drugs (which bear "unacceptable" risks; e.g. cocaine, heroin and ecstasy) and soft drugs such as the psychedelic psilocybin mushrooms as well as cannabis products: hashish and marijuana (as defined in the Dutch Opium Act). The distinction is drawn on whether the substance is only psychologically addictive (i.e. producing no worse effect than moderate craving when withdrawn) or also physically addictive (i.e. there is solid proof the drug could cause dangerous withdrawal symptoms and/or lasting physical damage). One of the main aims of this policy is to separate the markets for soft and hard drugs so that soft drug users are less likely to come into contact with hard drugs. This policy also aims to take the soft drug market out of the hands of the criminals, thus reducing crime.

So-called coffee shops are allowed to sell soft drugs openly, and to keep supplies greater than the amounts allowed by law for personal use, though they are only allowed to sell individual customers the amount allowed for personal use. The coffeeshops' wholesale suppliers, however, are still criminalized. In practice, the limit of the "for personal use" clause is 5 cannabis plants per person for growing, or possession of 5 grams of hashish or marijuana per person. Example of sentence in 2004 for possession of 360 grams: confiscation and a fine of €750. Coffeeshops pay taxes just like any other business, though there are some special exemptions for them, mostly because they cannot show receipts for their supply of marijuana.

Large-scale dealing, production, import and export are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, even if this does not supply end users or coffeeshops with more than the allowed amounts. Exactly how coffeeshops get their supplies is rarely investigated, however. What is certain is that coffeeshops do sell cannabis that comes from countries where it is illegal. Large suppliers tend to be criminals motivated by profit who do not make the distinction between hard and soft drugs. Hence, the soft drug policy, by failing to address the issue of supply, has made the Netherlands the main centre for hard drug trafficking in Europe. Creating a highly controlled, legal production chain for cannabis to combat this problem has been proposed by a number of Dutch politicians over the last few years, so far without results.

If you go by this, Nicotine aka tobacco products are a hard drug and hence are illegal in the netherlands. They lead to a physical dependence and actual physical harm. Explain that.
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Old 12-09-2005, 07:31 PM   #73
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Re: Here's an interesting question for you..

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowflyn
If you go by this, Nicotine aka tobacco products are a hard drug and hence are illegal in the netherlands. They lead to a physical dependence and actual physical harm. Explain that.
Which just goes to prove my point that this country has drug laws that are insane.

It is only illegal because for 50 years the government and police have said that it is bad for you, bad for you, you will lose all your brain cells, and die as soon as you take one puff.

For them to legalize it they would have to swallow pride and admit they were wrong. Marijuana is not physically addicting, cigarettes are. Yet which ones are illegal?

If anything Cigarettes can not be put into the same category as other physically addicting drugs as they have no harmful "mental side effects" when you smoke one, unlike Cocaine and heroin.
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Old 12-09-2005, 08:39 PM   #74
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Re: Here's an interesting question for you..

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowflyn
If you go by this, Nicotine aka tobacco products are a hard drug and hence are illegal in the netherlands. They lead to a physical dependence and actual physical harm. Explain that.

You better reread that. The difference between "hard" and "soft" drugs as spelled out above is what WITHDRWAL will do to the user, not USE of the product. If you are going to argue a point at least understand the point.
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Holy crap he's right.
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Old 12-09-2005, 08:54 PM   #75
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Re: Here's an interesting question for you..

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So tell me why alcohol should be legal and weed shouldn't. Why is my claim "ignorant"? I can justify weed being legal because of alcohol being legal perfectly fine. Tell me WHY THAT IS FLAWED LOGIC
You wanted to justify weed's legalization by pointing to alcohol abuse as a reason to justify weed. Or did you forget what you wrote?

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Originally Posted by Brent
3) If you drink alcohol how do you make an arguement that alcohol is better than marijuana, when alcohol is responsible for many drunk driving deaths and overdoeses every year?
I don't think anyone made the claim that "alcohol is better than marijuana", just that two wrongs still do not make a right.

Weed is as bad as alcohol and tobacco rolled all up into one, and in many cases worse.

There is no simple field sobriety test, like for drunk driving, so unless you want the standards used for public intoxication to be applied there is no way to quantitatively state a driver is under the influence of weed short of expensive and time consuming testing. You wanna pay for that if you get pulled over and the cop thinks you might be under the influence?

Weed has a lot of crap in it's smoke like tobacco, in some cases more of certain things than tobacco. None of which is good for you. In fact I have yet to hear one good argument for weed, all I hear is excuses based on allowed chemical ingestion.

I'd be for weed any anything else if, and only if, I didn't, as a member of society, have to pay for your stupid choice of using it. So, fry your brain with chemicals and you can sit and drool in the gutter for all I care. But expect me to pay taxes to take care of you and then I get to say what I think about your behavior.
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Holy crap he's right.
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Old 12-09-2005, 09:24 PM   #76
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Re: Here's an interesting question for you..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponycarman
You wanted to justify weed's legalization by pointing to alcohol abuse as a reason to justify weed. Or did you forget what you wrote?



I don't think anyone made the claim that "alcohol is better than marijuana", just that two wrongs still do not make a right.

Weed is as bad as alcohol and tobacco rolled all up into one, and in many cases worse.

There is no simple field sobriety test, like for drunk driving, so unless you want the standards used for public intoxication to be applied there is no way to quantitatively state a driver is under the influence of weed short of expensive and time consuming testing. You wanna pay for that if you get pulled over and the cop thinks you might be under the influence?

Weed has a lot of crap in it's smoke like tobacco, in some cases more of certain things than tobacco. None of which is good for you. In fact I have yet to hear one good argument for weed, all I hear is excuses based on allowed chemical ingestion.

I'd be for weed any anything else if, and only if, I didn't, as a member of society, have to pay for your stupid choice of using it. So, fry your brain with chemicals and you can sit and drool in the gutter for all I care. But expect me to pay taxes to take care of you and then I get to say what I think about your behavior.
Stop saying "your choice" and specify generally. I do not use weed.

For one you can not actively be against a complete ban on weed without actively being against a complete ban on alcohol.

Two, Spending billions of dollars a year arresting, prosecuting, and having anti-marijuana commericials and programs just to prevent someone from becoming high is... well... ****ing stupid.

Would you please show me proof that marijuana "fries your brain?" It sounds like you got a hold of one too many Dare books.
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Old 12-09-2005, 09:33 PM   #77
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Re: Here's an interesting question for you..

or watched too many of those "DUDE I am soo high! *puts shotgun in mouth and pulls the trigger* [overbearing voice]Marijuana is bad.[/overbearing voice]" commercials.
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Old 12-09-2005, 11:09 PM   #78
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Re: Here's an interesting question for you..

I think America needs to take some lessons from the Dutch. Brent, this might go well with your speech:

http://www.csdp.org/ads/dutch2.htm
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Old 12-09-2005, 11:20 PM   #79
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Re: Here's an interesting question for you..

Even with all this talk about how it isn't that horrible for you, I still wouldn't try it. Legal, illegal.. it's still smoking and smoking is gross.
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Old 12-09-2005, 11:23 PM   #80
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Re: Here's an interesting question for you..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph
Even with all this talk about how it isn't that horrible for you, I still wouldn't try it. Legal, illegal.. it's still smoking and smoking is gross.
Ok and that is perfectly fine.
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Old 12-09-2005, 11:26 PM   #81
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Re: Here's an interesting question for you..

That's the main topic of this thread lol
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Old 12-09-2005, 11:29 PM   #82
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Re: Here's an interesting question for you..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph
That's the main topic of this thread lol
Exactly, and that is why I said that is fine lol.

What I dont like is some of the BS people spew out regarding weed.
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Old 12-09-2005, 11:48 PM   #83
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Re: Here's an interesting question for you..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent
Stop saying "your choice" and specify generally. I do not use weed.
I'll say what I want, you are hte one vehemently pro weed, not me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent
For one you can not actively be against a complete ban on weed without actively being against a complete ban on alcohol.
Sure I can, I am in fact and there is nothing you can do about that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent
Two, Spending billions of dollars a year arresting, prosecuting, and having anti-marijuana commericials and programs just to prevent someone from becoming high is... well... ****ing stupid.
Not when society has decided they have to pick up the pieces when the **** hits the fan.

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Would you please show me proof that marijuana "fries your brain?" It sounds like you got a hold of one too many Dare books.
They didn't have DARE when I was in school. I seen the **** take out way too many people first hand. That is all the proof I need. Once again EXPERIENCE trumps education. Anytime you put your well being into the hands of a mind altering substance you are a dumb****.
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Old 12-10-2005, 12:05 AM   #84
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Re: Here's an interesting question for you..

Quote:
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I'll say what I want, you are hte one vehemently pro weed, not me.
You WON'T tell ME that I smoke weed. I DON'T. You got it? I am for the legalization of it. That does not mean I use it. If you are not smart enough to realize that then I'm sorry.



Quote:
Sure I can, I am in fact and there is nothing you can do about that.
All I see is your opinion, just like I see my opinion. I don't see hardly any facts in this thread


Quote:
Not when society has decided they have to pick up the pieces when the **** hits the fan.
What pieces do people pick up behind marijuana users?



Quote:
They didn't have DARE when I was in school. I seen the **** take out way too many people first hand. That is all the proof I need. Once again EXPERIENCE trumps education. Anytime you put your well being into the hands of a mind altering substance you are a dumb****.
Oh My God! Like no freakin way! I totally have seen the "****" be used by totally productive people who can use it and remain active and productive in school and at their work.

Like you said, experience trumps education. My experience tells me that while some people can not control the use of it, just like some people can not control the use of alcohol, weed should not be banned because select few people can not control their use of it.

I don't want my beer with my meal taken away because someone ods on Bacardi 151.

I don't want weed to stay illegal for the same reason.

You sir, have said nothing but opinion in this thread, backed up by YOUR experience.

THAT IS NOT FACT
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Old 12-10-2005, 12:11 AM   #85
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Re: Here's an interesting question for you..

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Originally Posted by Kiljosh
Yes.

and v6stang

I wasn't generalizing, just trying to get my point acroos that you only live once so make sure it's fun.

Personally I know I am a better driver stoned. All 4 tickets Ive had were when I was sober. Weed doesn't cloud your mind as much as you would think man. I mean, I dunno if youve tried it, but. Hmm. How can I explain it. Its like that old saying your rents used to tell you about how someone used pot and got so high they jumped out a window thinking they could fly. Pot is not a drug capable of doing something like that. I mean, you know your stoned. but you still have a grip on reality. And for me atleast pot leaves my system faster than alcohol so if Im DD'ing one night I'll smoke at a party.


you must have been smoking that dirt weed down south. cali has some of the best grown due to sea level elevation.
and hell yes it slows down your reaction time. the first time i tired it, it only took about 4 drags from a blunt and my whole body was numb. i was rambling on about whatever for hours.

it's just as bad as drunk driving. perception and abillity to think sucks when your'e high. but if you have a built up tolerance and only smoke a gram or so then sure you can handle yourself and keep in control but while you're under the influence you can do some pretty fcuked up stuff

and trying it once is all it takes for some people to get hooked.
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Old 12-10-2005, 12:23 AM   #86
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Re: Here's an interesting question for you..

^ Straight from the horses mouth on that one
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Old 12-10-2005, 12:33 AM   #87
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Re: Here's an interesting question for you..

i honestly wish i didn't know so much on it. but again someone will argue with my statement cuz they thought they were fine and could function. well so did i until i started finding dried blood on my shirts and other weird stuff that i couldn't explain. it's like being in la la land and day dreaming in a black hole if you're really on one. it attacks your mind and you take on a different way of thinking. you do stuff you never thought you would do.
judgement is thrown off and to you, you think you're fine and everything is ok but then your friends who are sober tell you otherwise but you won't believe em anyways.

i would never tell someone to try it even just once. even if i hated the person. i know heroin is bad but i don't need to try it to find out.
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Old 12-10-2005, 12:33 AM   #88
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Re: Here's an interesting question for you..

I agree that is slows reaction times down. I do not deny that. What I find utterly amazing is that someone can come in here, give their opinion, state it as a fact based on only their experience and then tell me I smoke weed and they can tell me that as much as they want!

Ain't that some ****!
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Old 12-10-2005, 08:18 AM   #89
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Re: Here's an interesting question for you..

i didnt read it all, but its your choice to smoke marijuana whether if its legal or not. There is no reason to hate a substance so much when it is the same deal as beer n tobacco.
Please just do your own research, www.norml.org www.mpp.org
there are so many others. People who are being perscribed it by dotors and dieing and using marijuana are being sentanced to jail time and dieing in jail just because they had possesion of Marijuana. Is it their fault that its one of the only things (healthy enough, when they eat it) to keep them out of pain? Marijuana isnt bad when used responsible just like alcohol. But unlike alcohol you still know exactly what you are doing.
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Old 12-10-2005, 09:57 AM   #90
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Re: Here's an interesting question for you..

i acctually agree with making it legal at like 18 years old, then just put a crazy high tax on it and make up for this nice debt we have, doesnt meen ill smoke tho, nothing about smoking anything appeals to me, it just smells bad and is a waste of money
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Old 12-10-2005, 12:34 PM   #91
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Re: Here's an interesting question for you..

a group of people also found medical use for some of the chemiclas in cocain.
Are people going to start sniffing coke because their doctor said it's the only thing that will ease their pain? where do we draw the line?

And the stuff my dealers got from the canibas club sometimes cost a lot more then whats on the street because it was so pure and potent. I'm talking so sticky your fingers would stick to the blunt paper trying to pull apart the bud. Being a member of the club isn't like having a discount card at Costco.

If they put a high tax on that, then yes we'd get out of debt but then that would inflate prices on the street and who knows what young addicts with no money would do to get their fix. probably find a cheaper more lethal way to get high or the crime would go up.
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Old 12-10-2005, 02:57 PM   #92
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Re: Here's an interesting question for you..

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Are people going to start sniffing coke because their doctor said it's the only thing that will ease their pain?............who knows what young addicts with no money would do to get their fix
coke and marijuana are NOTHING alike at all. also, no youngsters will need their "fix" because its not heroine. its barely addictive or not addictive at all. want proof? i smoked it enough to count on my hands and i havent for close to a year and have no desire to. or how about 90% of the people i know smoke or have smoked it. most of which graduate college and stop because they need to be clean for drug tests. as far is it goes to addiction is "man i wish i was still in college... it was so fun." thats as far as their addictions go.

a sociologist would love this topic. to see how society created a norm on drugs. but yet, we actualy do a bunch of drugs. tylenol, caffeine, tobacco, alcohol, peyote.. hell, even oxygen can be used as a drug (can even cause a high). the fact is, marijuana is NOT as bad as people make it out to be... both the high and the process of using it isnt even classified as a stimulant, depressant, or hallucinagent (the 3 main categories of illegal drugs) and wherever you read that it is, it is a 100% lie. EVEN IN MY PSYCHOLOGY BOOK it has 4 or 5 paragraphs on the pros of marijuana and only 1 short one on the cons (i believe the ones they covered was prolonged use was bad for lungs, worsened memory and its a gateway drug). here is some more information to think about: if you compare the deaths caused from cigarettes and alcohol.. do you know how much more it is than marijuana? keep in mind THOSE are legal hmm that doesnt make much sense now does it? so in conclusion.. just because its labeled a bad thing in society doesn't mean its actually that bad (just like swear words).
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Old 12-10-2005, 03:14 PM   #93
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Re: Here's an interesting question for you..

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In fact I have yet to hear one good argument for weed, all I hear is excuses based on allowed chemical ingestion
i havent heard one piece of information that was anti marijuana that wasnt propaganda fed to society.

Quote:
So, fry your brain with chemicals and you can sit and drool in the gutter for all I care. But expect me to pay taxes to take care of you and then I get to say what I think about your behavior.
ACTUALLY, if by gutter you mean hospitals, large corporations, and other businesses making 50k+/year, then yes, we will be in the gutter. As for you paying taxes to take care of us? No, actually we will be taking care of you by having jobs and paying social security. And everytime you get a shot, take a pill, go on the internet, visit a store, etc. Remember, us college graduates who used to smoke pot and rot our brains.. well, we were the ones that developed it. i guess our brains arent that rotted now, huh? what type of music do you like? most of those guys were potheads too.

this thread reaks of ignorance.
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Old 12-10-2005, 05:17 PM   #94
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Re: Here's an interesting question for you..

Duh i know coke is different. I was talking about where we draw the line for what's medicinal or not....Whatever. I don't need a text book or some scientific tests to prove anything about weed. If you give in to all that **** about it being good for your blood flow and to help stimulate your mind then you're just as ignorant. Sure there are "positive" side affects but not worth the risk of getting addicted.

Come to my town and see the affects it has on people. I'm talking about long term and not some kid who tried it a couple times. Most of them just started out with a little but they liked it so much they got hooked. and because you've tried it a few times doesn't really mean much. if you haven't been addicted to it then your opinions don't matter much to me.

I would NEVER perscribe it as medicinal use to anyone. It's a short term fix.
and yes i use the word fix because it applies. If i didn't have it every 6 hours or so my body got the jitters, i had headaches, dizzy, had NO patience for anyone and had other physyical problems. it wasn't just mental addiction. i was sick for 2 weeks going through withdraws until i got it out of my system.

However it does depend on how much you smoke i guess.
But i sure as hell won't sit here and let people tell others that it's an ok thing and won't hurt you. I wish i had a video camera so i could document some real life facts that put scientific and psychological theories to rest.


It's obvious we all have strong opinions about this subject but i dont like people that don't have enough first hand experience telling me i'm wrong. i think in a way we can both be right to a point. and it's good you and people you know could stop it easily but over here those figures are backwards where 90% stay hooked.
i'm done with this.
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Old 12-10-2005, 06:23 PM   #95
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Re: Here's an interesting question for you..

That's the thing, you can't put science to rest. Science is built on fact. Whatever addiction you had was mental.

I smoked cigarettes for several years, and quit cold turkey, didn't have a problem. Most people who smoke cigs would tell you that's not possible, but we don't all fit into a nice little mold.
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Old 12-10-2005, 07:01 PM   #96
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Re: Here's an interesting question for you..

As I said earlier, I have had personal experiences, still do on occasion. For about 6 months while I had my own place, I smoked it nearly every day in pretty large quantities. I then went another 6 months without smoking it entirely. Lately, I do it every once in a while, if someone else happens to offer it to me. Marijuana is simply not physically addictive. I can tell you that from personal experience. I refuse to believe that I somehow have some sort of superior physical addiction resistance that caused me to not become addicted to it when "other people do". It is all mental.

And it also doesn't make you some kind of loser. As I said earlier in the thread, at the time I was smoking heavily I was working a part-time job, about 30 hours a week. I was also a full-time student. When I got home from work and had all my homework done, I'd sit around with my friends and smoke. Hell, a lot of times I'd even do my programming assignments high. How is that harming anyone? How is it harming me? Of course there are the lung issues, but I smoke cigarettes too (and I am PHYSICALLY addicted to them, I've tried quitting) so I don't think that a little extra smoke is too much of an issue. It's a price I pay, sure. But in this "land of the free," shouldn't it be my responsibility to make the decision?

The next morning I'd get up, take a shower (notice: then I won't stink), and feel great. You'd be amazed out how good you feel in the morning after getting stoned the night before. It's the exact oppposite of alcohol for me.

I find it interesting that the most of the people who are adamantly against the use of marijuana have never tried it (at least not more than a couple of occasions) and have no substantial information to back up their claims. They all spout off the same unfound clichès that they have been fed by the government and media for the last 40 years. "Oh... pot fries your brain!" "Potheads are losers!" "Blah blah blah!"

Pot doesn't make you a loser. Being a loser may, however, contribute to smoking a lot of dope, simply cause a loser has nothing better to do. Doesn't mean everyone who smokes is a loser. Some of us are actually responsible enough to smoke only when appropriate. Hmm... sounds a lot like some other drug (which if I remember correctly, is legal)...

One day I'll be President and the ****'ll be legal.
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Old 12-10-2005, 08:49 PM   #97
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Re: Here's an interesting question for you..

I have tried it and it gives me the worst headache of my life. if I wanna feel that bad I'll get drunk (its even legal)
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