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Old 03-14-2006, 11:56 PM   #36
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent
No supreme being belief for me. That is just as crazy to me as the evolution theory is to you
I know, I know, I just get so...emotional!

But just one more thing and then I'll hush. Fire has been duplicated adnauseum, life has not.
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Old 03-15-2006, 12:22 AM   #37
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

life is a little harder to duplicate than rubbing two sticks together einstien. but its been done a few times now.

i just dont see how evolution is deniable. we have fossil records dating to almost the beginning of this planets life, to the prehistoric era where dino's ruled, to prehistoric man era to present. you can even see how we went from being hunchbacks with huge thick heads and little brains, to upright and large brains(well, some of us). that is evolution, and its in your local museum/library or a quick google search on evolution of man will bring that up. hell, there was a thing on MSN not too long ago about what possibilities of how our race could look like in the future, after all our cultures basically become one unified race and all the genetic markers that make up mexican, black, asian, etc. are watered down into one genetic makeup. very good read, especially when they get into bio-technology and nano-technology which alters our cells and basically turns us into borg drones.
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Old 03-15-2006, 12:35 AM   #38
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

What about creationary evolution?

Maybe we were created at a certain level and evolution led us to where we are?

Who knows? Nobody. I certainly don't.
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Old 03-15-2006, 01:09 AM   #39
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

my thoughts:

god might exist.

evolution did occur. not only did it happen with humans but it happened with many other animals (and viruses). humans went through many, many steps of evolution and thanks to finds we have discovered a dozen or so stages of human evolution. it just so happens that one reason why we "evolved" from a more primate like animal is because of a large meat consumption. fish, mammals, reptiles, amphibians, birds, etc.. all evolved. animals evolved and still continue to evolve but i wonder why people deny humans are the exception. Humans are much more advanced than we were back in the day. Oh, and I guess that DNA similarities between us and other animals was just a trick god decided to pull on us to keep us thinkin. I agree that religion is hard to disprove because you simply can't however science is just making more and more facts against religion.

just some hypothetical thinking here but if god did create everything then what was he thinking?! if he wanted a challenge he definitely made himself one. if he wanted obediant, brotherly loving humans why didnt he just make them that way? why did he make viruses, diseases, giant carnivores that resembled monsters (dinosaurs), other carnivores such as cheetahs who break the neck of their prey and suffocate them to death, snakes that eat prey alive, war, death, etc.

i disagree with who said the human body is simple. animals (including humans) are very complex. there is so many chemicals, balances, and processes going on it only makes sense we evolved. we started simple and we grew bigger and bigger just like anything else... a city, a forest, a coral reef, etc. Why would God make something like respiration, eating, excreting waste, and all these chemical processes? i think its alittle too thought out to be created. these chemical processes and things for survivability (ears, eyes, adrenaline) are just our bodies adjustment to our surroundings which developed over a long long time.

God might exist but not in the way religion portrays it. Religion portrays God as a being. A divine being. What if God is just "life energy" or something like that? What if God is just some sort of Gaia type thing where it is a binding force between all life? We simply dont know but thats why I say God might exist.
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Old 03-15-2006, 01:09 AM   #40
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

We'll figure it all out eventually. We are smart little ****ers.
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Old 03-15-2006, 01:12 AM   #41
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

^ But do we want to?
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Old 03-15-2006, 01:21 AM   #42
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

If people believe in God, then why should this bother them? They've got faith.

I think we should. Maybe then we can finally accept that we are alone on this planet, and we are lucky to be here. ****, as I sit here and type this.. as you guys are sitting there reading this do you know how ****ing incredible this is?!?!

How amazing is this?! From nothing we evolved and we are communicating thousands of miles away from each other.

Look at yourself in the mirror, and begin to analyze yourself. What other creature on this planet can do that? To understand that under our skin we have veins, muscles, blood, bones, and organs? We are amazing creatures of life, and it's just so damn sad and pathetic that we can't stop our *****ing about beliefs because someone wrote a book, or someone had a vision, and now we are all fighting over NOTHING.

****.

Everyone needs to calm the **** down and start thinking of the future. Lucky for our damn asses, the sun is relatively young so we don't have to worry about leaving this planet any time soon for any sun related issues, but our population size bothers me.

We will eventually run out of room. This planet isn't big enough for a creature who can control it's enviornment, it's surroundings, and live longer than most other creatures.

Groan.. sorry.. sometimes I get this sparks of realization and I just ramble.
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Old 03-15-2006, 01:24 AM   #43
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

"Certainly illustrates the diversity of the word"
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Old 03-15-2006, 01:36 AM   #44
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

im with bbunt.. i love hearing other peoples thoughts and stuff.

nothing i say is offensive or at least i dont mean it to be. i try to be open minded about it and to discuss it. nothing to get upset about either way because....

in the end it doesnt really matter! no point in arguing. there is no right or wrong and we simply will never know!

and back to the discussion..

Quote:
Life needs the whole pachakge to live. Even the most simple unicellular organism relies on numerous systems to exist. Without any one of these, it would die. So in the process of evolution figuring out what works and what doesn't, countless millions of "things" had some of the systems but not all of them and therefore did not "live", and something that is close cannot stay in "almost alive" limbo long enough for evolution to get it right so it has to start over. The probability of evolution getting it right even once would be astronomical let alone then making one that could reproduce or cell divide. And all this still does not explain what causes something to "live" in the first place.
its called darwins theory. survival of the fittest. i dont know everything about evolution but basically it started out as single cell organisms. and then these single cell organisms evolved into many different types depending on their environment. they adapted. adaption is still in effect even today.. i mean look at races of humans. people are different.. its a way of evolution. if we isolated ourselves from each other for thousands of years we would probably evolve differently too. however, back to the evolution theory. after those single celled organisms evolved they became multiple celled organisms. maybe starting out as one or two. so and on so on. evolution didnt just pop out of nowhere full bloom animals. it took time and lots of adaption. of course lots of species didnt make it. there is an overabundance of some sort of food, some sort of animal eats that type of food to balance that out. something eats that. the food chain was slowly built and became more and more complex as years and years and years passed.
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Old 03-15-2006, 02:08 AM   #45
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph
If people believe in God, then why should this bother them? They've got faith.

I think we should. Maybe then we can finally accept that we are alone on this planet, and we are lucky to be here. ****, as I sit here and type this.. as you guys are sitting there reading this do you know how ****ing incredible this is?!?!

How amazing is this?! From nothing we evolved and we are communicating thousands of miles away from each other.

Look at yourself in the mirror, and begin to analyze yourself. What other creature on this planet can do that? To understand that under our skin we have veins, muscles, blood, bones, and organs? We are amazing creatures of life, and it's just so damn sad and pathetic that we can't stop our *****ing about beliefs because someone wrote a book, or someone had a vision, and now we are all fighting over NOTHING.

****.

Everyone needs to calm the **** down and start thinking of the future. Lucky for our damn asses, the sun is relatively young so we don't have to worry about leaving this planet any time soon for any sun related issues, but our population size bothers me.

We will eventually run out of room. This planet isn't big enough for a creature who can control it's enviornment, it's surroundings, and live longer than most other creatures.

Groan.. sorry.. sometimes I get this sparks of realization and I just ramble.
Me and you would get along real good. I think about the same things. I analyze everything.
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Old 03-15-2006, 07:42 AM   #46
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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Originally Posted by Brent
I have always been of the belief that if other life forms were indeed found to exist that it would cause mass chaous in the religious sector
Nah, We Christian types encountered this back in the day and raised up armies for the crusades. Then we wiped out the Inacs, Mayans and Indians with our righteous Christian ways. The Muslums have the same kinda history and are trying to do the same. If we ever encountered another alien civilization out between the stars I'd be embarassed.
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Old 03-15-2006, 10:47 AM   #47
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Well consider this, there are billions of stars in the universe. If the only thing to create life is just the distance away of a planet to the sun, like us for an example. 1 Astronomical Unit and bam, life on this planet.

This is a random figure, but what if the chances of us existing was 1 in a million? With a billion stars out there, those odds look pretty good don't ya think?
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Old 03-15-2006, 10:51 AM   #48
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Off topic, but a good laugh

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Old 03-15-2006, 12:15 PM   #49
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

speaking out of theory if time is truly endless then it will never end, ergo anything that can happen will happen because it has an endless amount of time to do so.
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Old 03-15-2006, 01:58 PM   #50
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EclipseGSTdude
life is a little harder to duplicate than rubbing two sticks together einstien. but its been done a few times now.
Wow, what a completely unfounded statement.

Prove this statement please.

Show me one instance let alone "a few", where man has created living, organic material from nonliving, inorganic material. This is what would have to happen for evolution to be possible and it HAS NOT been duplicated.

Anything else is no different than the act of having sex, sex "creates" life, but is something that milions of living things do every day and the life does not come from nonliving material but rather a living sperm and a living egg.
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Old 03-15-2006, 02:24 PM   #51
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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Wow, what a completely unfounded statement.

Prove this statement please.
I second this motion. The only way I've ever seen life be created is through the combination of sperm and an egg, both living cells. It may be done "artificially", but it still comes down to the combination of these two specialized cells.

If we have indeed been able to actually "create life" from anything that was previously not living, I'd be very interested to see it. If someone can prove to me that this is possible, then I would be much more willing to accept the theory of our evolution from simple, single celled organisms.
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Old 03-15-2006, 02:47 PM   #52
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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Originally Posted by DarkShadow
Wow, what a completely unfounded statement.

Prove this statement please.

Show me one instance let alone "a few", where man has created living, organic material from nonliving, inorganic material. This is what would have to happen for evolution to be possible and it HAS NOT been duplicated.

Anything else is no different than the act of having sex, sex "creates" life, but is something that milions of living things do every day and the life does not come from nonliving material but rather a living sperm and a living egg.
you'd be suprised at how easy things can be created at a single molecular level. if the conditions are right, and the elements are there.. life can be created.. just like what you said.. human pregnancy.

sperm and egg are nothing "magical", they are still chemicals. and they, in the right environment, produce a child.

now imagine a pond of water with a bunch of elements in it. chemicals could all be there, the heat, pressure, etc could all be right.. possibly protein and nucleic acids.. and pop, some bacteria started to grow. from this, over millions of years could grow or evolve in other types of bacteria or possibly into amoeba type things. we obviously dont know for sure. you have to remember, WE are NOT the rulers of this world. we arent the center of this world. so if anything, god didnt even create humans. this world is OWNED by bacteria. the ways in which materials like carbon or sulfur or phosphorous or nitrogen get cycled in ways that makes them available for our biology, the organisms that do the real important ground level work are bacteria. when you think of life billions and billions of years ago you might think some sort of cell WHICH might not be the case. it might of been just a single stick of protein that grew to a certain size and reproduced asexually. also, the world is SO, SO very old and humans have only been around a short while.. isnt it kind of weird to you that God puts us in such high esteem? i mean, we are a new mammal to the world and we are quite destructive to his creation.. alittle weird he loves us and will accept us into his heaven but no other living things even though they been around MUCH, MUCH longer.

Quote:
The recipe for life is not that complicated. There are a limited number of elements inside your body. Most of your mass is carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, sulfur, plus some nitrogen and phosphorous. There are a couple dozen other elements that are in there in trace amounts, but to a first approximation you're just a bag of carbon, oxygen, and hydrogen.

Now, it turns out that the atmosphere is a bag of carbon, oxygen, and hydrogen as well, and it's not living. So the real issue here is, how do you take that carbon dioxide in the atmosphere (or methane in an early atmosphere) and water vapor and other sources of hydrogen—how do you take those simple, inorganic precursors and make them into the building blocks of life?

There was a famous experiment done by Stanley Miller when he was a graduate student at the University of Chicago in the early 1950s. Miller essentially put methane, or natural gas, ammonia, hydrogen gas, and water vapor into a beaker. That wasn't a random mixture; at the time he did the experiment, that was at least one view of what the primordial atmosphere would have looked like.

Then he did a brilliant thing. He simply put an electric charge through that mixture to simulate lightning going through an early atmosphere. After sitting around for a couple of days, all of a sudden there was this brown goo all over the reaction vessel. When he analyzed what was in the vessel, rather than only having methane and ammonia, he actually had amino acids, which are the building blocks of proteins. In fact, he had them in just about the same proportions you would find if you looked at organic matter in a meteorite. So the chemistry that Miller was discovering in this wonderful experiment was not some improbable chemistry, but a chemistry that is widely distributed throughout our solar system.

Life really is a form of chemistry, a particular form in which the chemicals can lead to their own reproduction. But the important thing, I think, is that when we think about the origin of life this way, it isn't that life is somehow different from the rest of the planet. Life is something that emerges on a developing planetary surface as part and parcel of the chemistry of that surface.

Life is also sustained by the planet itself. That is, all of the nutrients that go into the oceans and end up getting incorporated into biology, at first they're locked up in rocks and then they are eroded from rocks, enter the oceans, and take part in a complex recycling that ensures that there's always carbon and nitrogen and phosphorous available for each new generation of organisms.

The most interesting thought of all is that not only does life arise as a product of planetary processes, but in the fullness of time, on this planet at least, life emerged as a suite of planetary processes that are important in their own right. We're sitting here today breathing an oxygen-rich mixture of air. We couldn't be here without that oxygen, but that oxygen wasn't present on the early Earth, and it only became present because of the activity of photosynthetic organisms. So in a nutshell, life is really part of the fabric of a planet like Earth.

All life that we know of is fundamentally pretty similar. That's why we think that you and I and bacteria and toadstools all had a single common ancestor early on the Earth. If you look at the cell of a bacterium, it has about the same proportions of carbon and oxygen and hydrogen as a human body does. The basic biochemical machinery of a bacterium is, in a broad way at least, similar to the chemistry of our cells.

The big difference between you and a bacterium in some ways is that your body consists of trillions of cells that function in a coordinated manner. Bacteria are single cells, although they're not free agents. In fact, bacteria working in a sediment or in the sea actually live in consortia as well. They're not really lone operators. They work in these very, very highly coordinated communities of organisms that help each other to grow and prosper.
i think this is a little more believable about being made out of clay, and then a rib, and then being able to speak, reason, and reproduce.
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Old 03-15-2006, 03:53 PM   #53
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wiarumas
sperm and egg are nothing "magical", they are still chemicals. and they, in the right environment, produce a child.
Yes they are magical, apparently, because they are living and this is more proof that life is only created by something already living. You missed the whole point of what I said. A sperm cell and an egg cell are living cells. They are not inorganic lumps of chemicals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wiarumas
...also, the world is SO, SO very old and humans have only been around a short while.. isnt it kind of weird to you that God puts us in such high esteem? i mean, we are a new mammal to the world and we are quite destructive to his creation.. alittle weird he loves us and will accept us into his heaven but no other living things even though they been around MUCH, MUCH longer.
I don't mean this to be rude, I honestly just don't know how else to word it so PLEASE don't take this the wrong way. But it is very difficult to have a coherent arguement when both sides don't understand both sides. To a creationist, man was made the day after all other life and we were made in the image of God, unlike all other living things. So of course He takes more notice of us than the rest of His creation. Mostly because He said he made the rest for US, and because He said He cares for us above the rest of His creation anyway. In other words most of us don't believe in the millions of years thing anyway.

As for the 'ole Stanley Miller experiment, I love it when people use that one.
Read please, this is evolutionists on the experiment, not creationists.

And aside from that whole article, most people don't even realize how far away just having an amino acid or 2 is from actually having a life form, so back to the question, please give proof of this claim that we have created living, organic matter from nonliving, inorganic matter.



Quote:
Originally Posted by wiarumas
i think this is a little more believable about being made out of clay, and then a rib, and then being able to speak, reason, and reproduce.
Well, that's what you believe and that's not what I believe, that's why we are having this conversation anyway.
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Old 03-15-2006, 04:04 PM   #54
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Let me say this real quick, I'm not trying to make anyone mad or sound stupid or spread "religious propaganda". But what does make me mad is when people who believe in evolution try to say that the THEORY is fact. It is not fact and really has no more evidence for it's validity than creation does. You believe what you want and I believe what I want to. But NEITHER group can say their theory is fact.

I just like a good healthy arguement.
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Old 03-15-2006, 04:35 PM   #55
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Let me state something that just drives me crazy about this subject matter. Neither side can see crap through the fog of bull**** that chokes the mind off!!!

The truth is Evolution and Creation are not mutually exclusive!!! The whole theory of evolution is about the universe evolved into what it is today but there is a big gap in where it all started. In the bible it refers to God as a supernatural being which means greater than natural. God's miracles here on earth such as the great flood or parting of the sea were done using nature. No blinking of the eye and the water was there and now it is gone. So my belief is that both extreme sides of this issue are goof balls. Science and God are one in the same. God created life and it is evolving. Any religion that says our planet is 3000 years old or there were no dinosaurs is only lying to themselves. By the same token any atheist or non believer thinks they are to smart to believe in a higher being is also lying to themselves. This is a fact over the centuries every major civilization has become self absorbed, lost there faith and has led to there demise. Science today is in turmoil being led by atheist bent on trying to debunk God and Religion is in turmoil because it is being led by people who not serving God but their own ego's and lust for money.

Never put your faith in the hands of man and never stop questioning the men of science because they are usually wrong
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Old 03-15-2006, 06:06 PM   #56
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Preach it brother Corey!

I agree, other than the initial act of creation, God uses the laws of his creation to govern how he performs miracles. To some degree "evolution" is going on, if you want to call it that.

Here is an example of what I'm talking about:

The Bible says that each creature, animal and plant, gives offspring according to it's own kind. The "evolution" I speak of is probably more accurately termed adaptation. Take dogs for example. All dogs that we know of today came from one type, but today we have a huge amount of different breeds. This is due, in part, to human use of selective breeding, but also in part to adaptation to differnet evironments. It is a form of natural selection, take the wolf, where it lived, it had bigger prey that smaller dogs could not kill. So sometimes a bigger than normal dog is born and kills bigger animals and lives to be old enough to breed, thereby having offspring of larger size that also become successful, and eventually the smaller dogs die out in that area.

BUT, where this differs from the purist evolution is here: The smaller dog did not give birth to a dinosaur that would be able to kill bigger prey or a cow that could live off grass rather than having to kill. With evolution, dinosaurs evolve into birds, 2 entirely different species, that's where I draw the line. Because a wolf is still a dog, a tiger is still a cat, a Holstein is still a cow, they are not giving rise to totaly different creatures.
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Old 03-15-2006, 07:01 PM   #57
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danger Dude
Let me state something that just drives me crazy about this subject matter. Neither side can see crap through the fog of bull**** that chokes the mind off!!!
Amen, Brother Corey. This is why I have yet to choose a side. Or... maybe you could look at it like I'm on my own side.

I find that many people who are highly dedicated followers to either side (or any religion) are missing something. I think a lot of this is due to lack of courage to question their beliefs. They have been taught all their lives that "this" is how things are and that you should never question "this". What you end up with is close-minded "sheep" who do whatever their religion and religious leaders tell them to do without once thinking for themselves. They automatically brush off anything that disagrees with them in the slightest way as if it were pure rubbish because it threatens their security in their own faith. It makes them curious, and they begin to open their eyes. But that's a sin, or maybe just not "logical". So they immediately try to shut it out and call it bull****.

Instead, I feel people should study many religions and philosophies. Look past the propaganda and try to see the good and bad points of each one. And when the time is right, a person can then formulate their own beliefs from all the things they have studied. You may find that one of the pre-existing religions or schools of thought fits your beliefs exactly. If so, great. At least then you will be following something you truly believe in, rather than whatever your parents forced you to sit through when you were a child.

Lately, I've been reading up on some of the philosophies of Carl Jung (who I got into from listening to Tool). Some of his ideas are very interesting, much of it dealing with the subconscious and the ability to overcome one's own ego. However, I don't like the fact that some of the things he said bordered upon being anti-Semitic. Still, I encourage everyone to read up on him a bit.
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Old 03-15-2006, 07:19 PM   #58
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Please take no offense to anything following, I am simply contributing to this eternal and intriguing debate.

where did the laws that govern the universe come from? (i ask evolutionists)

have you ever pondered our souls? honestly thought about who you are. If you lose your arm, it is gone but you are still you. There are all kinds of parts of your body, even internal things that you can lose, yet you still are yourself. What are you? What defines you, the thing that makes every choice you make and thinks every thought you think. what will really happen when the body you control fails to exist? will you just not exist, like it was before you were born? to me that is unthinkable...i can't imagine not being anymore. Once we are, can we really stop being? If i'm really communicating what im thinking about, it is pretty fascinating.

that was just something i've been thinking about.. I personally am a "creationist" and believe God created the universe etc.
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Old 03-15-2006, 08:22 PM   #59
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

anyone ever notice the fact that planets are like protons.. revolving around a nuclei (stars).. aside from the stars (and an oddly red spectrum across space..) all is dark.. just like inside our own bodies these cells and their structure are all in the dark.. what encloses our universe? what is beyond the stars we can see?

that's what I don't get..
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Old 03-15-2006, 08:26 PM   #60
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonteCitan
anyone ever notice the fact that planets are like protons.. revolving around a nuclei (stars).. aside from the stars (and an oddly red spectrum across space..) all is dark.. just like inside our own bodies these cells and their structure are all in the dark.. what encloses our universe? what is beyond the stars we can see?

that's what I don't get..
You notice that!!! You are correct. The reason is all matter has energy and is made of Atoms. Atoms and all cells act in the electromagnetic field. All matter has some level of electro magnetic energy. It is what powers life and the universe
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Old 03-15-2006, 08:26 PM   #61
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

and also, how small does this "stuff" go. I mean, we go from molecules to atoms, to protons, neutrons, electrons...how small does it go? I don't see how anyone can deny the complexity of the human body or the universe..
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Old 03-15-2006, 08:29 PM   #62
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

That is an excellent question, which we probably will never be able to answer. Perhaps there's nothing enclosing it. But there's no way to know either way.

Another related thing I find interesting is the idea scientists have that the universe is expanding. This would mean the universe is not infinite, that it has some boundaries. So what exists outside of these boundaries? Nothingness? Is it just an infinite stretch of area with no mass or energy?

These types of things are very entertaining to consider.

EDIT: BTW, I was trying to quote Kyle's question about what may possibly enclose our universe but for some reason the quote tags refused to cooperate. And to think... I'm a BS in Computer Science...
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Old 03-15-2006, 08:33 PM   #63
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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and also, how small does this "stuff" go. I mean, we go from molecules to atoms, to protons, neutrons, electrons...how small does it go? I don't see how anyone can deny the complexity of the human body or the universe..
Nothing we know of today is sub atom in size. Protons Neutron and electrons make up an atom.
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Old 03-15-2006, 08:48 PM   #64
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

For those that have been around me for any amount of time, you know I'm a creationist. I believe, through faith, that God created it all. I also believe that being an extremist on either side of the spectrum is a bad thing. I believe in evolution, I believe I have evolved to be able to work in the heat of a delta summer, while someone from up north would probably never be able to put up with the heat here. Don't have a problem with much of the evolution theory until it comes to creation. This is probably due to what has been "pounded" into my head my whole life, but you know what, it's what gives me comfort at night that tomorrow will follow, and that if tomorrow never comes, it's still all ok. At this moment in my life, I believe that people should investigate, learn all they can about all the theories, and choose to believe and follow the one that brings them comfort. Everyone is different, everyone has different thoughts of what is acceptable, and everyone should be able to find something that peaks their interest and gives them comfort in life. Once you get to that point, you can move on and develop your life in other ways. Basically I guess, I believe personal development is between two theories. Maslow's hierarchy of needs theory and Mcclenon's acquired needs theory. Both of these state that a person has basic needs that must be met before trying to meet social needs, then meeting personal needs, which is basically what you believe life is. Like say, you can't sit down and ponder what life is until you have met your needs of who you are, and what you believe you are on this earth for. These theories are very deep if you do any research on them, and might make for an interesting read if someone gets bored. But yeh, I'll get out of this thread now, just had to put in my .02 cents.
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Old 03-15-2006, 10:10 PM   #65
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Ever since I saw Men In Black, where at the end the alien is playing marbles with galaxies inside them, I've wondered what else is out there. What exactly is on the border of the universe. It is impossible to comprehend infinity. How can something go on forever, without end? I believe it does go on for ever though. What is gravity really? What is the power that powers it. I also noticed how solar systems seem to resemble molecules and have wondered if our galaxy is really just a molecule of something so much bigger that we could be shown it and still not comprehend it. Imagine it, as vast as our galaxy is, it could just be one of billions that make up something else. Every atom of our body could hold a "mini universe" with inhabitants that wonder the same thing.

I love thinking deep thougts.

And for the record, a few years ago, I decided I would research the things that I always took for granted because that's just what I was told to be true. I also researched the things that I was always told to be false. When I was done, I was never more sure of what I belive to be true, than from that moment on. The reason I did this is because I had been dating a girl for some time that was as close to everything I was looking for as you could get and more. We never even came close to fighting over anything, but she went to a different church than me. All along this kind of hung in the background and we finally faced it one day. She said that she would consider rethinking things since I was going to. Well, her parents got wind of this and forbade her to ever see me again. I was somewhat dissapointed in her for not going against them as we had talked occasionally about "future plans", but she comes from a church that is incredibly strict and to defy your parents could send you to hell, yada yada, so I guess I couldn't blame her too much. But her parents were so closed to the idea of being wrong that they ruined our chance, kept their daughter from discovering who she was, and I hated them for that. I don't know, maybe they had researched it too and that is what they arrived at, but anyway, I promised myself I would never be so closed minded about something before I saw what was out there first. This is something everyone has to do if your going to even know who you are, and I'm not saying your wrong if you don't believe as I do. All I know is, this is what I am supposed to believe.
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Old 03-16-2006, 01:27 AM   #66
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Prove to me how nothing can always be there, and how nothing can be created into a walking talking person just with a snap of the fingers?

If there is that power, then we should be able to create it. If God has kicked us out of the garden of eden for the understanding of knowledge, then apparently we should know how to do this out of nothing.



And for the record, not ONE of you has answered my question.

What about the ****ing dinosaurs.
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Old 03-16-2006, 01:29 AM   #67
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Who created God and why does he get to be all powerful and all that good stuff
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Old 03-16-2006, 01:32 AM   #68
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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And for the record, not ONE of you has answered my question.

What about the ****ing dinosaurs.
The dinosaurs were pretty much like Gods practice run with the whole maintaining life. Once he got the hang of it BOOM dead.
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Old 03-16-2006, 01:50 AM   #69
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Uh..

huh...

the divine justice then?

No, I need a real answer.
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Old 03-16-2006, 01:55 AM   #70
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

To me, dinosaurs are one of the biggest holes in the theory of evolution. Yet everyone else seems to see it the other way around. I guess I'm just stupid. Anyways, I see it like this...

Why would these huge... incredibly powerful... some of them possibly quite intelligent creatures known as dinosaurs evolve over millions of years, yet when they die off and evolution sort of has to start over, nothing even close to their size evolves the second time around. Think about it. These things were absolutely huge. The most fit of the fit to survive. Yet some strange natural disaster, which scientist still cannot explain, wipes them all out.

Now, millions and millions of years have passed since they became extinct. This time evolution has taken a totally different path. Remember, if something was powerful enough to kill these dinosaurs, it likely killed absolutely everything except for what was in the sea. And even there, probably only the creatures at the deepest depths of the ocean survived.

Somehow, instead of giant reptiles, small, highly intelligent mammals proved to be the most fit to survive this time around. Explain to me why things were so much different the second time around. Also, keep in mind that the evolution likely occurred from the exact same "basis" each time. The creatures that lived at the depths of the ocean. Because from what I've read, that's where the first living organisms were said to magically come alive through evolution.

It seems to me that in the early stages of human development, dinosaurs would have absolutely owned us.

Remember, I'm not necessarily saying God created them either because I'm on no particular side in this debate. This part of the evolution theory just doesn't add up for me.
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