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Old 03-16-2006, 02:04 AM   #71
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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Originally Posted by 98Monte
The dinosaurs were pretty much like Gods practice run with the whole maintaining life. Once he got the hang of it BOOM dead.
BOOM! Headshot!
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Old 03-16-2006, 02:27 AM   #72
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

BOOM HEADSHOT BOOM HEADSHOT BOOM HEADSHOT!!!!!

I think Brent has heard the DOD song before too :O

Well our earth did get hit by some pretty massive meteors in it's day. That could definitely change it, but I think it was something else that killed the dinosaurs.

I'm thinking of a world wide plague. The insects were huge in that time and since there was no way to contain them, it just spread all over the place. Then of course we have our ice age times, that's how animals began to develop fur to stay warm and such.. meh, I'm too tired to think tonight.
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Old 03-16-2006, 02:50 AM   #73
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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Then of course we have our ice age times, that's how animals began to develop fur to stay warm and such.. meh, I'm too tired to think tonight.
That could be part of it. The Ice Age definitely would have encouraged warm-blooded mammals with thick fur... But the whole size thing would still be up in the air. It looks to me like animals would have almost continuously evolved to be larger and larger in order to be able to out-power other animals.

I also like your theory of a plague. If it happened to us in the Middle Ages, its very likely that it could have happened to dinosaurs "back in the day" as well. Seems a lot more reasonable than some of the other dinosaur extinction theories I've heard over the years.

Even with all this being said, I don't think that the teachings of creationism totally go against the existence of dinosaurs. Remember God created the world in seven days according to a book that was written thousands and thousands of years ago and translated no telling how many times over those years. I'm thinking it probably took him a little bit longer than 168 hours to do.

If I were to come up with a theory to fit their existence into Christianity, I'd probably say that they were both created and killed before Adam was ever created. Maybe God spent millions and millions of years perfecting what animals would be appropriate to co-exist with his final and most beautiful creation. Even science tells us that no humans were alive during the time of the dinosaurs. Perhaps these creatures were too deadly for humans to survive with them. So God decided they would have to be wiped out before he could place an organism created in his own image on the planet.

Although, this does kind of question His omnipotence. If He knows all and sees all, He would have known they were too powerful from the beginning. He would have no need for experimentation.

So I dunno, this seems to be one of those issues that neither side can really explain. But I'd love it if some of you would at least try your damnedest.
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Old 03-16-2006, 06:27 AM   #74
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph
BOOM HEADSHOT BOOM HEADSHOT BOOM HEADSHOT!!!!!

I think Brent has heard the DOD song before too :O

Well our earth did get hit by some pretty massive meteors in it's day. That could definitely change it, but I think it was something else that killed the dinosaurs.

I'm thinking of a world wide plague. The insects were huge in that time and since there was no way to contain them, it just spread all over the place. Then of course we have our ice age times, that's how animals began to develop fur to stay warm and such.. meh, I'm too tired to think tonight.
The end-Permian extinction, the largest mass extinction in the history of the Earth, may have been caused by volcanic eruptions creating high levels of hydrogen sulfide in the oceans and atmosphere. According to Lee R. Kump, professor of geosciences at Penn State University, volcanic eruptions that took place in Siberia 251 million years ago have been shown to be contemporaneous with the end-Permian extinction, in which 95 percent of all species became extinct. (The asteroid that killed the dinosaurs led to the destruction of 75 percent of species living on Earth at the time.) The warming caused by carbon dioxide emissions from the volcano would not have been large enough to cause the mass extinction by itself; terrestrial plants thrive on carbon dioxide, yet many terrestrial plant species became extinct.
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Old 03-16-2006, 01:24 PM   #75
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Creationists not beliveing in dinosaurs is the olden days. Off the top of my head I can't think of anyone that's big in creationism that doesn't believe dinosaurs existed. One of the main reasons is that the Bible refers to beasts called "Leviathan" and the "Behemoth". These references are in the book of Job, and if anyone is interested I'll look up the exact chapters. They describe creatures that could be nothing but dinosaurs, but, yes, almost all of us believe dinosaurs existed.

One of the theories for their dying out is that, in God's pefect world, there was no killing. Now, how could animals that eat meat, survive without killing things to eat. I read a book by a creationist that described how a lot of dinosaur teeth that were thought to be carnivores, are actually more suited to eating plants. I don't expect anyone to believe this, I haven't decided on it myself. But anywho, after the great flood, (it's assumed that baby dinosaurs of possibly the eggs were brought on board since, obviously, they were too big to keep on a boat), there were not enough animals to eat for the meat eaters to stay alive, and the plant eating dinosaurs were the only animals big enough to sustain them. So all the herbivores eventually were killed within a short amount of time, due in part to carnivores, but also an absence of living plants, since the world had been under water. Then the meat eaters turned on other animals causing other extinctions, like those of the bigger mammals, until man eventually killed them all because of the damage they were causing or they just died due to lack of things to eat. This would have been the prime time to do so since there were only 2 per kind as well.

Another theory is that they died out before the flood due to similar reasons. They were just too big and too dangerous to coexist in the sin ruined world, since everything was herbivorous in the pre sin world and dinosaurs were the biggest animals and therefore the biggest "nusance".
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Old 03-16-2006, 02:42 PM   #76
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

sharp teeth = grass eaters? :/

Oh and this just in from Yahoo news:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/200603...doftheuniverse

Scientists study split second of the creation of the universe

It's scary when you think about it in a way.. finding out where all this came from.. because eventually we'll come to some answer.. they say how there is this "This radiation is known as the Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB), and it is the oldest light in the universe." My question is where did this light come from? What created it? I think our purpose in life is to find that answer, how everything started..

think about it.. we keep going back and back and back and we keep getting closer to the answer.. I get chills thinking about the conclusions we'll come to when we get to that final answer where things came from, how it all started.. If the universe started with gases, where did they come from?
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Old 03-16-2006, 04:28 PM   #77
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

^according to string theory our entire universe as we know it exists on a dimensional plane and it collided with another plane... sort of like colliding dimensions. there was enough energy from this collision to create a universe/a giant explosion. thats why its rippling outward too (from the collision point). its a pretty neat theory. its so far fetched so i dont know about it. what they are doing now is studying if gravitrons (or something) can be sent to the other dimension and that will prove its possible or something. im not sure i just watched a show on it once and read about it alittle. they also said its possible for worm holes and warping because space might not be x,y,z. it might twist and bend and it would be possible to travel to another point in space. i drew a picture of a worm hole from point A in the universe to point B in the universe by showing the universe (a dimensional plane) not being flat.

as i said before though, im just sharing my beliefs and i read fully on everyone elses. i dont mean no harm or trying to change peoples mind. as funny as it sounds as much as i talk about evolution im actually a christian, pray daily and attend church. however, im not a fan of most of the christian teachings. i believe in god, but not even half of the stuff the bible says.
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Old 03-16-2006, 04:32 PM   #78
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

the pic
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Old 03-16-2006, 05:27 PM   #79
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph
think about it.. we keep going back and back and back and we keep getting closer to the answer..
yet, 300 years from now, think about what we will know about what we thought was true now. There seems to be an infinite amount of knowledge to be had, and, though it seems we are so "advanced," we are not far from total ignorance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph
I get chills thinking about the conclusions we'll come to when we get to that final answer where things came from, how it all started.. If the universe started with gases, where did they come from?
good question
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Old 03-16-2006, 07:27 PM   #80
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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Nothing we know of today is sub atom in size. Protons Neutron and electrons make up an atom.
Quarks are the smallest things we know of.
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Old 03-16-2006, 07:37 PM   #81
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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Quarks are the smallest things we know of.
In Theory. We are unable to see them in Protons or Neutrons. We only know they exist by the behavior of shattered Protons and Neutrons.

So we calculate their existance!!!
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Old 03-16-2006, 08:08 PM   #82
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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Originally Posted by wiarumas
^according to string theory our entire universe as we know it exists on a dimensional plane and it collided with another plane... sort of like colliding dimensions. there was enough energy from this collision to create a universe/a giant explosion. thats why its rippling outward too (from the collision point). its a pretty neat theory. its so far fetched so i dont know about it. what they are doing now is studying if gravitrons (or something) can be sent to the other dimension and that will prove its possible or something. im not sure i just watched a show on it once and read about it alittle. they also said its possible for worm holes and warping because space might not be x,y,z. it might twist and bend and it would be possible to travel to another point in space. i drew a picture of a worm hole from point A in the universe to point B in the universe by showing the universe (a dimensional plane) not being flat.

as i said before though, im just sharing my beliefs and i read fully on everyone elses. i dont mean no harm or trying to change peoples mind. as funny as it sounds as much as i talk about evolution im actually a christian, pray daily and attend church. however, im not a fan of most of the christian teachings. i believe in god, but not even half of the stuff the bible says.
actually, it helps to understand wormhold theory if you think of the universe as a giant balloon. do this: get a baloon, write "a" and "b" on opposite sides of the balloon. "A" is your starting point, "b" is your destination... put a finger on each point and press the baloon inward until your fingers touch each other... there, you've just created a wormhole

now, apply that principle to space travel... imagine how long it would take to reach another solar system travelling in an *almost* straight line path... hundreds of lightyears, right? but with sufficiently powerful gravity manipulation, and assuming we could identify the appropriate "balloon" that we'd have to tunnel through,we could reach our destination and only take a fraction of the time that straight line travel would take

but, since the universe is so vast, and complex and full of so many things, it would have to be a nearly infinite number of balloons contained one inside another, with more balloons forming from the BB point and expanding outward to the edge of the universe

god i love wormhole theory

p.s. - those are my own ideas. i've never read anything like that anywhere
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Old 03-16-2006, 08:11 PM   #83
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

further to my above post, i'd like to point out that any one point, such as the earth, could intersect with an infinite number of "Balloons"
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Old 03-16-2006, 11:06 PM   #84
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Very interesting, but the real problem comes in with the gravity manipulation..how is this done, in theory?
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Old 03-17-2006, 07:09 AM   #85
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

well, rotational mass creates gravity... planets spinning, stars wheeling, etc etc.... make a round spaceship and spin it and everything inside would get pulled to the inside of the outer hull. like a centrifuge effect... this pseudo-gravity is used on the russian space station, i believe.... so i imagine that the reverse would work, if you spin a tiny sphere fast enough, it should start to create it's own gravity pull. build a ship around it and head for the stars

ever seen the movie "event horizon"?? ..the ship's creators basically create a black hole and seal it in the ship's drive with magnetics. they channel the gravity through the ship to make a wormhole and jump the ship to wherever
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Old 03-17-2006, 07:39 AM   #86
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dark
well, rotational mass creates gravity... planets spinning, stars wheeling, etc etc.... make a round spaceship and spin it and everything inside would get pulled to the inside of the outer hull. like a centrifuge effect... this pseudo-gravity is used on the russian space station, i believe.... so i imagine that the reverse would work, if you spin a tiny sphere fast enough, it should start to create it's own gravity pull. build a ship around it and head for the stars
Gravity is caused by the curvature of space by the mass of objects. Imagine space as a big bed-sheet. If you and three of your buddies pull it taught, there's space. Throw a pool ball or something on it and it will curve the sheet. Throw a bowling ball on it and the sheet will curve even more. The spinning pseudo-gravity effect is caused by centripetal force. It's just that, pseudo-gravity. It doesn't curve space. It's just like grabbing a ball at the end of a rope, holding it out, and spinning. The ball will be pulled out away from you. Spin faster, and the ball is pulled harder. If you're on the inside of a spinning space ship, you'd be pulled toward the "floor". You wouldn't be able to tell it wasn't gravity, but it would be something different entirely.
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Old 03-17-2006, 08:16 AM   #87
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...Story/National

There's an interesting read.
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Old 03-17-2006, 08:58 AM   #88
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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Gravity is caused by the curvature of space by the mass of objects. Imagine space as a big bed-sheet. If you and three of your buddies pull it taught, there's space. Throw a pool ball or something on it and it will curve the sheet. Throw a bowling ball on it and the sheet will curve even more. The spinning pseudo-gravity effect is caused by centripetal force. It's just that, pseudo-gravity. It doesn't curve space. It's just like grabbing a ball at the end of a rope, holding it out, and spinning. The ball will be pulled out away from you. Spin faster, and the ball is pulled harder. If you're on the inside of a spinning space ship, you'd be pulled toward the "floor". You wouldn't be able to tell it wasn't gravity, but it would be something different entirely.
According to Einstein that is. He was right about everything else, but we don't know about this one yet. The problem I have with that one is, what is the property of space that makes it that sheet? Is it supposed to be that dark matter and energy and so forth? Because I'll have to see some evidence of nonexistant existing matter before I'll accept that one...
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Old 03-17-2006, 09:12 AM   #89
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

The only thing I have to say is why not believe in GOD???, I mean if you are right then oh well you can laugh at my if we ever come across in another life.. But if I am right, and there is a GOD, then you would lose everything. So I have everything to gain and nothing to lose(except maybe sleeping in on sundays, but hey thats a small price to pay.)
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Old 03-17-2006, 09:31 AM   #90
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Lol, that's almost what I say word for word. "If I'm wrong and your were right, I haven't lost anything. If I'm right and you were wrong, you've lost everything."
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Old 03-17-2006, 10:06 AM   #91
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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Lol, that's almost what I say word for word. "If I'm wrong and your were right, I haven't lost anything. If I'm right and you were wrong, you've lost everything."
It's not that easy. Sure, I could tell everybody that I believed. I could even go to church and ****. Deep down, though, I'd know that I didn't believe any of it.
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Old 03-17-2006, 11:23 AM   #92
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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It's not that easy. Sure, I could tell everybody that I believed. I could even go to church and ****. Deep down, though, I'd know that I didn't believe any of it.
im the same way. i DO believe in God BUT im not all about the christian religion even though im confirmed and everything. i think that there is no religion on earth that has it 100% right and if i believe in God and just be a good person (because isnt that what religion is supposed to do?) i'll be accepted into heaven or some other type of happy state after death.
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Old 03-17-2006, 11:39 AM   #93
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

This is true. People can't be scared into or forced into it. They have to believe it because they want to.
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Old 03-17-2006, 11:46 AM   #94
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Gravity throughout the millions of years has not been constant and either has our axis. There have been at least 3 shifts of our axis and most in theory was contributed to a Corona Magnetic infraction caused by a Mega Sunburst or Solar Flare that hits the earth after the magnetic pulse hits the earth causing a magnetic colapse of our magnetic field causing the earth to lose its axis. It could take thousands of years before the earths magnetic field would stabilize and form a new axis point. Most life that survived the magnetic pulse would have to face the intense fire and the side of the earth facing the sun at the time of the blast would be crispy crunchy.
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Old 03-17-2006, 12:15 PM   #95
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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It's not that easy. Sure, I could tell everybody that I believed. I could even go to church and ****. Deep down, though, I'd know that I didn't believe any of it.
How does that make you any different from most church-goers?
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Old 03-17-2006, 12:32 PM   #96
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

We all face doubt. Look it has been a long time since and major Miracle or sign and until you have a personal experience with God and his power you will never be absolute. There are only a handful of people who are 100% sure of God that have had no personal experience our life altering event to make you 100% sure.

God gave us Free will and that sometimes stands in the way of believeing and not seeing. As humans we want positive 100% proof. That is what makes faith so special.
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Old 03-17-2006, 01:29 PM   #97
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

We gave ourselves free will after we defied god and ate the apple.

My philosophy teacher (One hell of a teacher too, when he started talking you just wanted to listen to him all day) is a turkish jew. He's from New York so he's got that accent, and he's this short 5'2 guy. He reminded me a lot of George Carlin.

He said "I'm glad we ate that apple and we were kicked out of the garden. If not, we would be like robots with no power to do anything under our own control."

I forget the middle part, but basically how he's glad we have free will to do what we want etc. He concluded with this:

"And when God comes to take me to Heaven, I will not go without struggling and fighting my way out of his grasp. I think life is so special and wonderful, that not even God would convince me to go to Heaven. You better believe that I will not go peaceful in the night, I will raise hell to stay alive, even if it was just for another minute. Life is so precious.. and it's just disgusting how little people regard it in this world."

^ I was taking his class back in 2001 Fall semester, so when 9/11 happened, he really got on a roll. I think it was one of his best classes ever.
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Old 03-17-2006, 02:12 PM   #98
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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Originally Posted by Seph
We gave ourselves free will after we defied god and ate the apple.

My philosophy teacher (One hell of a teacher too, when he started talking you just wanted to listen to him all day) is a turkish jew. He's from New York so he's got that accent, and he's this short 5'2 guy. He reminded me a lot of George Carlin.

He said "I'm glad we ate that apple and we were kicked out of the garden. If not, we would be like robots with no power to do anything under our own control."

I forget the middle part, but basically how he's glad we have free will to do what we want etc. He concluded with this:

"And when God comes to take me to Heaven, I will not go without struggling and fighting my way out of his grasp. I think life is so special and wonderful, that not even God would convince me to go to Heaven. You better believe that I will not go peaceful in the night, I will raise hell to stay alive, even if it was just for another minute. Life is so precious.. and it's just disgusting how little people regard it in this world."

^ I was taking his class back in 2001 Fall semester, so when 9/11 happened, he really got on a roll. I think it was one of his best classes ever.
I dont agree. If he did not give us free will from the beginning he would not have let Satan roam the earth and Eve would not have ate the apple. Free will shows our total love for God without it it would not be a test WOULD IT!!!!
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Old 03-17-2006, 07:33 PM   #99
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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I dont agree. If he did not give us free will from the beginning he would not have let Satan roam the earth and Eve would not have ate the apple. Free will shows our total love for God without it it would not be a test WOULD IT!!!!
You are exactly correct. The philosophy teacher must have been a pointy headed liberal to say that. God gave us free will from the very start because he wanted us to be different from the angels. The angels were made to serve and worship God. He wanted a being that would have to chose to love Him, therfore showing a greater love and apprecaition for Him because we have the choice NOT to. If He didn't want us to make our own decisions, He would never have allowed Satan anywhere near us, and would not have placed the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil right in the middle of the garden as it's focal point in the first place!
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Old 03-18-2006, 05:30 AM   #100
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

If God knows all then did he see this coming then?

I fully understand what you mean DarkShadow and I would agree with you if I had more faith in religion.

Though I find it pretty sickening, seeing how we are almost like his toys. Watching as we struggle through life and at the end if you didn't love him he'll send you to hell even if you were a good person.
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Old 03-18-2006, 06:38 AM   #101
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph
If God knows all then did he see this coming then?
Yes he does

Quote:
I fully understand what you mean DarkShadow and I would agree with you if I had more faith in religion.
Religion is the reason most people falling out of faith or never believe. Religion is mans attempt at regulating and governing faith in God. God is not Baptist or Muslim. Never put your faith in Man or any man made religion. This is not to say you cant find happeness or solice in any organizatized religions you just have to be vigil and realize all men are weak and can fall to the vices of greed, power and money. To many of the TV evangelist are in it for the money and they even are on TV every day asking for it. We also have to understand there is great evil in this world and it feeds on doubt and on mans weaknesses.


Quote:
Though I find it pretty sickening, seeing how we are almost like his toys. Watching as we struggle through life and at the end if you didn't love him he'll send you to hell even if you were a good person.
We are responsible for the paths we choose. Free will has a price and if we look deep down within ourselves we can usually see what we done in our lives to bring us where we are today. You do reap what you sew. Now that is not to say we deserve cancer or being murdered is ones own fault. I sometimes have trouble understanding why this happens. But we can look at our environment and what we eat with all the preservatives and realize we are killing ourselves.
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Old 03-18-2006, 10:02 AM   #102
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Wow, im late getting on the boat with this, and im definatly not reading the whole thread, so im going to voice what i feel and think, then dip out.

I feel that there is no God, no superior being, nothing above us. If there was just this God who created everything, why would there be countless books and countless religions? Many religions share similar beliefs to what are conveyed in here, but what about those that believe in multiple Gods? Religions who find animals sacred? Religions who dont believe in a God even remotely similar to the whole God and Jesus Christ? Are you going to say "Youre wrong, your Gods are false, read my book thats been revised more times than you can imagine, and you will be set free?" How idiotic is that?

Religion is nothing more than blind faith. It was what gave people reason to obey in the medival times, in the rennisance, gave people reasons to live, believing that if they are good people, theyll go to this heaven which no one can describe other than being "heavenly", theyll be saved and go for eternal bliss. For people to believe in a book that not a single person knows its true origin, and live by it, i consider those the ignorant ones.

As for more on topic, we have to be completely stupid to think that God only created us, that is PURE ignorance. Just like the Europeans thinking that they were superior over Africans and Native Americans, who were they to choose? There were points where the Europeans didnt know anything other than the white man existed, then they stumble across asians, blacks, indians, and people of many origins. Woops, i guess they were wrong. So who are we to think we're the only life forms? And how stupid can you be to think we're the only intelligent life forms?

Alien life forms have been documented back to the Egyptian times, flying ships and things of that nature. Those UFO's have been documented for who knows how long, yet it took us how many years to get into space?

You can praise your book all you want, the book was written by man, and we know that man is flawed.
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Old 03-18-2006, 10:41 AM   #103
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

^i agree thats why i dont really follow the christian religion fully.

but in my mind there might be a god.. just not the god that is talked about in holy books.

one more question about adam and eve with the apple. did God give these humans resistance/tolerance to harmful bacteria, diseases and viruses found all over the world (including the water they drank and food they eaten)?
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Old 03-18-2006, 11:24 AM   #104
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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Originally Posted by wiarumas
^i agree thats why i dont really follow the christian religion fully.

but in my mind there might be a god.. just not the god that is talked about in holy books.

one more question about adam and eve with the apple. did God give these humans resistance/tolerance to harmful bacteria, diseases and viruses found all over the world (including the water they drank and food they eaten)?

Once again non-believers insist on putting a label on Faith in God. God is of no Religious persuasion. So please keep mans attempt at hijacking Faith out of this thread. With all the corruption in the religions I understand peoples lack of faith, but as I said put no faith in man.

Why would they need resistance to viruses and disease. There are very few that transmit directly from animal to humans and humans own nature to live close to one another creates the spread of disease. So if they were the first 2 humans you crowding would not be an issue nor would communicable diseases.
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Old 03-18-2006, 11:39 AM   #105
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Disease was not a problem, nor was problems with incest b/c Adam and Eve were the first two humans, ever. The reason we have diseases now and such are because the pure dna and such from the first two people has been diluted and such after thousands and thousands of years.
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