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Old 03-18-2006, 11:54 AM   #106
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbird232ci
Wow, im late getting on the boat with this, and im definatly not reading the whole thread, so im going to voice what i feel and think, then dip out.

I feel that there is no God, no superior being, nothing above us. If there was just this God who created everything, why would there be countless books and countless religions? Many religions share similar beliefs to what are conveyed in here, but what about those that believe in multiple Gods? Religions who find animals sacred? Religions who dont believe in a God even remotely similar to the whole God and Jesus Christ? Are you going to say "Youre wrong, your Gods are false, read my book thats been revised more times than you can imagine, and you will be set free?" How idiotic is that?

Religion is nothing more than blind faith. It was what gave people reason to obey in the medival times, in the rennisance, gave people reasons to live, believing that if they are good people, theyll go to this heaven which no one can describe other than being "heavenly", theyll be saved and go for eternal bliss. For people to believe in a book that not a single person knows its true origin, and live by it, i consider those the ignorant ones.

As for more on topic, we have to be completely stupid to think that God only created us, that is PURE ignorance. Just like the Europeans thinking that they were superior over Africans and Native Americans, who were they to choose? There were points where the Europeans didnt know anything other than the white man existed, then they stumble across asians, blacks, indians, and people of many origins. Woops, i guess they were wrong. So who are we to think we're the only life forms? And how stupid can you be to think we're the only intelligent life forms?

Alien life forms have been documented back to the Egyptian times, flying ships and things of that nature. Those UFO's have been documented for who knows how long, yet it took us how many years to get into space?

You can praise your book all you want, the book was written by man, and we know that man is flawed.
How about either read the whole thing or just dip out. This is not some trivial rant and that is just what you did. You use blurps of atheist rants. The Bible has never been revised only misinterpreted by people who dont want there to be consequences to their actions or people who use people's ignorance of the Bible or Quoran to manipulate them into being subservant to a man made prophet and create acts of atrocities or mass murder in the name of religion.

Please I say again dont refer to Faith as a religion.


First off it is not the Egyptians with the strange picture carvings it is the Inca's, Aztec's and Mayans

This is a total untruth and in no way historically correct. You said " There were points where the Europeans didnt know anything other than the white man existed, then they stumble across asians, blacks, indians, and people of many origins" Sorry Europeans have always know of Africa and Asia!!!! Morocco is just across the Mediterranean from Europe and they are black!!! Hell Alexander the Great, a Greecian, conquered all of North Africa, the Arab world and all of Europe in 330BC that is 330 years before Jesus was born and before the Roman empire. European have always known of other civilizations. Just not of the America's

You said "Religion is nothing more than blind faith. It was what gave people reason to obey in the medival times, in the rennisance, gave people reasons to live, believing that if they are good people" The medievel era was the dark ages where people used man made religion to murder and kill innocent people who did not conform. This was a time of great evil and is the reason I am non denominational with my faith. Once Man steps in and creates a governing body in a religious group it becomes corrupt. Follow no man with your faith in God.

So you follow the writings of Atheist scientist who are also flawed. I find it so ironic that the people who profess to be to smart to have faith in God follow the belief's and writing of other people. So it is strange simply because they have faith in human science that is only theory and constantly being revised!!!
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Old 03-18-2006, 12:34 PM   #107
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

all religions have bits and pieces of the truth. nothing more... the full scope of god is too much for humans to grasp
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Old 03-18-2006, 12:47 PM   #108
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danger Dude
Why would they need resistance to viruses and disease. There are very few that transmit directly from animal to humans and humans own nature to live close to one another creates the spread of disease. So if they were the first 2 humans you crowding would not be an issue nor would communicable diseases.
well i didnt really mean diseases but instead i meant bacteria. without resistances to bacteria and other microscopic organisms at the time they wouldnt be able to eat, drink, or breathe without getting ill. just how people of certain countries cant go to other countries and drink water. their water supply is different, resistances are different, and not just in mexico, but many water supplies would get people sick... but back then they didnt even have sanitary water which would be okay but being created as a grown human without any resistances would probably give them one hell of a stomach ache.

i got this from the wikipedia entry "creationism" under the section "criticizing evolution" part "scientific critique of creationism."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creationism

Quote:
Many modern creationists are widely regarded as 'anti evolutionists' rather than as people putting forward an honest alternative to explain the origins of life. Indeed, virtually all creationist arguments take the form of attacks on evolutionary theories. Creationists sometimes minimize the explanatory power and validity of evolution theory by criticizing it as being "just a theory" implying that the word "theory" is synonymous with "conjecture" or "speculation", instead of the technical, scientifically accepted use of the word "theory" to mean a model of the world (or some portion of it) from which falsifiable hypotheses can be generated and verified through empirical observation. In this sense, evolution is an acceptable theory.

There is a fundamental difference between scientific approach to explaining the natural world and the creationist approach. The scientific approach uses the scientific method as a means of discovering information about the natural world. Scientists use observations, hypotheses and deductions to propose explanations for natural phenomena in the form of theories. Predictions from these theories are tested by experiment. If a prediction turns out to be correct, the theory survives. This is a meritocratic form of systematic enquiry, where the best ideas supported by evidence and positive experimental results survive. Traditional science does not seek answers that fit a certain pre-determined conclusion, but rather works to construct viable, testable, and provable theories based on a solid evidential foundation. The evidential foundation therefore precludes any reference to revelation. Creationism works in the opposite direction: accepting the conclusion first of a natural world created as described in scripture or religious tradition and working backwards to 'discover' supporting evidence. Creationism starts with a fundamental theistic assumption - the divine design and creation of all life - and then seeks facts to fit it. Any seemingly opposing facts are either ignored or dismissed. This is fundamentally unscientific, and a hallmark of pseudoscience.

Certain adherents to creationism have declared that there exist versions of creationism (namely creation science) that are based on the scientific method. It was such claims that were the basis for the legal arguments that creationism deserved equal-time in the science classroom. Skeptical critics charge that creation science is not a theory that has come about through a systematic and scientific accumulation of evidence. It is predominately based on the assumption of a literal interpretation of religious scripture and the emphasis of the authority of scripture over other sources of knowledge is evident in creation science literature.

All scientific theories are falsifiable; that is, if evidence that contradicts any given theory comes to light, or if the theory is proven to no longer fit with the evidence, the theory itself is shown to be invalid and is either modified to be consistent with all the evidence or is discarded. Scientific theories can be (and often are) found to be incorrect or incomplete. Since creationism rests on an article of faith, its construction assumes that the narrative accounts of origins can never be shown falsified, no matter how strong the evidence is to the contrary.

Evolutionary modern synthesis is the theory that fits all known biological and genetic evidence while being backed up by overwhelming evidence in the fossil record. Contrary to frequent claims by many opponents of the theory of evolution, transitional fossils exist which show a gradual change from one species to another. Moreover, evolutionary selection has been observed in living species (for a macroscopic instance, "tuskless elephants"--see elephant).

In the last ten years, powerful DNA analysis techniques applied to many organisms have demonstrated the fundamental genetic relationship between all forms of known life (humans share 50% of their DNA with yeast, 96%[10] with chimpanzees). Clearly, even if evolution as biologists currently understand it turned out to be false, this would not imply the truth of special creation (such a binary view being a logical fallacy). It is exclusively in the public sphere, where young Earth creationists (especially in the US) have fought for recognition of their world view, that the debate about creationism and evolution rages.
and i dont mean that to be an attack on religion/creationism or a "im right and your wrong" im just saying that you cant dismiss evolution because its a theory. it will always be a theory (probably). you cant prove something that happened billions and billions of years ago, the same as creationism cannot prove its true also which kind of makes creationism a theory as well. both are possible yes, but you cannot dismiss it just because its a theory. gravity was just a theory and so was earth being the center of the universe but im not saying that evolution is a correct theory.. hell, it could be something neither of us thought of such as we were genetic experiments of aliens and jesus was actually an alien. who knows?
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Old 03-18-2006, 04:42 PM   #109
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wiarumas
i got this from the wikipedia entry "creationism" under the section "criticizing evolution" part "scientific critique of creationism."
Excellent read. Good find. That sums up my biggest gripes with the "intellegent design" people.
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Old 03-18-2006, 05:11 PM   #110
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danger Dude
How about either read the whole thing or just dip out. This is not some trivial rant and that is just what you did. You use blurps of atheist rants. The Bible has never been revised only misinterpreted by people who dont want there to be consequences to their actions or people who use people's ignorance of the Bible or Quoran to manipulate them into being subservant to a man made prophet and create acts of atrocities or mass murder in the name of religion.

Please I say again dont refer to Faith as a religion.


First off it is not the Egyptians with the strange picture carvings it is the Inca's, Aztec's and Mayans

This is a total untruth and in no way historically correct. You said " There were points where the Europeans didnt know anything other than the white man existed, then they stumble across asians, blacks, indians, and people of many origins" Sorry Europeans have always know of Africa and Asia!!!! Morocco is just across the Mediterranean from Europe and they are black!!! Hell Alexander the Great, a Greecian, conquered all of North Africa, the Arab world and all of Europe in 330BC that is 330 years before Jesus was born and before the Roman empire. European have always known of other civilizations. Just not of the America's

You said "Religion is nothing more than blind faith. It was what gave people reason to obey in the medival times, in the rennisance, gave people reasons to live, believing that if they are good people" The medievel era was the dark ages where people used man made religion to murder and kill innocent people who did not conform. This was a time of great evil and is the reason I am non denominational with my faith. Once Man steps in and creates a governing body in a religious group it becomes corrupt. Follow no man with your faith in God.

So you follow the writings of Atheist scientist who are also flawed. I find it so ironic that the people who profess to be to smart to have faith in God follow the belief's and writing of other people. So it is strange simply because they have faith in human science that is only theory and constantly being revised!!!
Wow, you and I would get along very well. Preach it brother Corey. People say they are too smart to believe in God, but they believe in man, who is flawed, for the answers to life's questions?!

As far as the diseases thing, disease did not exist until after the fall and was a punishment of the original sin among other hard ships. Some of them we take for granted, but none of our "hard ships" existed before the fall. It was a perfect world.

I don't really believe that Adam and Eve can take the full blame, because you know one of us somewhere, sometime would have screwed it up.
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Old 03-18-2006, 06:01 PM   #111
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkShadow
Wow, you and I would get along very well. Preach it brother Corey. People say they are too smart to believe in God, but they believe in man, who is flawed, for the answers to life's questions?!
What if we sat around asking questions to god for the rest of our lives? Nothing would happen. God doesn't give answers to us, apparently from what I'm getting from this whole topic is that God gives us the will to choose what we wanna do. If man is FLAWED then why was it that MAN wrote the bible? Sorta throws it all off doesn't it?
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Old 03-18-2006, 06:05 PM   #112
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Man wrote the Bible while under direct inspiration from God.
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Old 03-18-2006, 06:40 PM   #113
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Quote:
but they believe in man, who is flawed, for the answers to life's questions?!
Quote:
Man wrote the Bible while under direct inspiration from God.
so it IS in man's hands afterall.
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Old 03-18-2006, 06:49 PM   #114
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

I used the word "direct" because that is actually a term referring to our belief of "Direct Divine Inspiration". This means that, God told them word for word what to write, and has preserved it's integrity through the years. Some of it was written several thousand years B.C. and describes events that occurr several years A.D.
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Old 03-18-2006, 07:40 PM   #115
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wiarumas
so it IS in man's hands afterall.
While writing the Old testament and being inspired by God I dont see the bad side of a person coming out. When in the presence of the Holy Spirit sin is the last thing on you mind I can bet. The New Testament is mostly Letters written by the Apostile's to the different tribes or cities of the day about the daily life of Jesus Christ and histeachings and miracles.
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Old 03-18-2006, 07:40 PM   #116
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

How do we know it was direct? If God didn't want any other religions then why didn't he spread his word to other parts of the world?
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Old 03-18-2006, 07:47 PM   #117
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph
How do we know it was direct? If God didn't want any other religions then why didn't he spread his word to other parts of the world?
At one time there were no other Religion.
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Old 03-18-2006, 08:01 PM   #118
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seph
How do we know it was direct? If God didn't want any other religions then why didn't he spread his word to other parts of the world?
or what i wonder.. why did God tell other people different things to form other religions?
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Old 03-18-2006, 08:32 PM   #119
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

OK for the last time Faith in God is not Religion. Man is Religion. God Told Peter you are the Rock which will build a foundation for the church. There is no mention of Religion with the words of Jesus. Men labeled him as a Jew and the Jews killed him because they feared losing control. Man and his lust for power again!!! The word Christian comes from the word believers in Christ. The first Christian Church was the Catholic Church. The word Catholic comes from the word catacombs or people of the caves or chambers. The original people who followed the teachings were originally called "The Way" But as time wore on they were persecuted by the Romans and the Jews so they hid in the caves to practice their faith and they became to be known as catholics.
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Old 03-18-2006, 08:40 PM   #120
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkShadow
Man wrote the Bible while under direct inspiration from God.
Says who
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Old 03-18-2006, 08:50 PM   #121
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danger Dude
God say's thats who!!!!
Well damn! My bad

Who says that God says that the bible is written by man who were inspired by God :p

The traditional explanation is that the Five first books of the bible were written by Moses himself. There are several variants of this explanation:

Quote:
* Traditional Judaism and fundamentalist Christianity believe that the text was dictated by God to Moses on Mount Sinai, letter for letter (or pretty much letter for letter).
* Other religious groups still ascribe authorship to Moses, but use words like "divinely inspired" rather than "dictated letter for letter."
Bolded keyword there. Believe != Fact which brings us back to me seeing no reason to believe in a supreme being
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Old 03-18-2006, 08:50 PM   #122
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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Originally Posted by Brent
Says who
God say's thats who!!!!

The traditional explanation is that the Five first books of the bible were written by Moses himself. There are several variants of this explanation:

* Traditional Judaism and fundamentalist Christianity believe that the text was dictated by God to Moses on Mount Sinai, letter for letter (or pretty much letter for letter).
* Other religious groups still ascribe authorship to Moses, but use words like "divinely inspired" rather than "dictated letter for letter."

The rest of the Old Testament was written by the names of the people the books are named for such as Tobith, Judith, Baruch (with letter of Jeremiah), Sirach (or Ecclesiasticus), Wisdom and 1 and 2 Maccabees. It has also extra chapters and verses in Daniel and Esther.
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Old 03-18-2006, 08:51 PM   #123
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Religions come from man's hope to influence other people and gain power by the fear of being wrong. Some also believe that Satan has perpetuated different religions to confuse.
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Old 03-18-2006, 08:53 PM   #124
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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Religions come from man's hope to influence other people and gain power by the fear of being wrong. Some also believe that Satan has perpetuated different religions to confuse.
Ok so where does your faith come from?

Why do you have faith in a book that was written by men who say they were inspired by God.
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Old 03-18-2006, 08:58 PM   #125
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent
Bolded keyword there. Believe != Fact which brings us back to me seeing no reason to believe in a supreme being
Peoples have always believed in a supreme being/beings. Tribes cut off from things like Christianity and the like since the begining of their existance have worshipped a creator. The american indians worshipped supreme beings long before we came over. There is somthing inside us that, at the very least, makes us wonder/believe/question in one. (...er...most of us...)
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Old 03-18-2006, 09:04 PM   #126
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent
Ok so where does your faith come from?

Why do you have faith in a book that was written by men who say they were inspired by God.
Like DangerDude has been saying, faith and religion are different things.
Religion is a tool of men.
Faith is what an individual has.
My faith comes from, as I have already stated, seeing what else is out there and deciding which one I THINK makes the most sense.
Faith is what you have in your father when you're a baby and he's throwing you up in the air. You don't cry and scream because you have faith he will catch you. NO ONE is too smart to have faith. You have to acknowledge your own limitations and realize that there are some things that you don't have an explanation for, but you believe in anyway. We have inadvertant faith that tomorrow will come. We plan what we will do next week like it's owed to us. I could have a heart attack before I finish typing this, but I'm planning what to say in the next sentence. Everybody has faith, I guess some have more than others.
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Old 03-18-2006, 09:09 PM   #127
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent
Ok so where does your faith come from?

Why do you have faith in a book that was written by men who say they were inspired by God.
Not faith in a book. Faith in a God who has written instruction on how to live life, treat others, laws to obey and prepare us for the next life after this one expires. But this is foreign to atheist and non believer simply because they believe they just die. Interesting thing is we all know there is good in the world and bad. So why is that??? Why if we all come from cosmic scum and evolved from monkeys, why is there evil in the world. All other animals are driven by instinct and the need to eat. Only man has an appetite for murder and hate and torture. Humm??? Even if a person was in a vacuum from birth and knew of no religion or God I would come to the conclusion Man is inspired to do great good and great evil. I would also deduct some force is contributing to it. Image what that could be.

To many of you are confused!!!!
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Old 03-18-2006, 09:15 PM   #128
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

I have a question for those who believe that there is no supreme being. If you believe there is no supreme being, what do you believe happens when you die? Do you simply cease to exist?

Also, it seems that tempers may be starting to rise a little in here. I encourage everyone to remember that someone questioning your beliefs should not be viewed as a threat, but rather a chance to strengthen your own "faith." Whether that be faith in a Supreme Being or in the laws of science and the evolution of our species... or whatever else it may be you believe.

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Old 03-18-2006, 09:36 PM   #129
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

I hope I don't "sound" mad because I'm not, I'm still enjoying it.

A missionary came to my church one time (I know this already makes it suspect ) who was going to China. He was showing us how Chinese characters have references to Biblical events:

Their symbol for creation consists of dust-breathe-man-live-move.
Their symbol for forbid consists of 2 trees-barrier-woman-eat.
Their symbol for model or perfect example consists of lamb-tree-eternal-water.

These are also a few I found on the internet. They have been using these characters for millennia, unchanged, even before buddhism, taoism, etc.
The first is for garden for garden of Eden, second is boat for Noah's ark, third is tower for the tower of Babel.
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Old 03-18-2006, 10:15 PM   #130
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

My fav quote on religion is from one of my philosophy teachers, haha. We were talking about the exponential growth of humans on Earth. He said, "Let's just hope Jesus comes back before the **** hits the fan."

I had something relevant earlier, but missed there was another page...
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Old 03-18-2006, 10:21 PM   #131
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

^lol!
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Old 03-18-2006, 10:23 PM   #132
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danger Dude
At one time there were no other Religion.
says who? I'm sure there is proof of other religions stretching even longer than Christianity.
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Old 03-18-2006, 10:26 PM   #133
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Nope. Not when Adam lived to be over 900 years old. It's like "What you don't believe? Well there's the first man ever standing right there!".
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Old 03-18-2006, 10:28 PM   #134
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

But seriously, of course there are "religions" older than "christianity", the Roman gods, Judaism, Greek gods, tribal gods, etc. But God has been believed in for milennia before organized chrisianity was even a figment.
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Old 03-18-2006, 10:34 PM   #135
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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I have a question for those who believe that there is no supreme being. If you believe there is no supreme being, what do you believe happens when you die? Do you simply cease to exist?

Also, it seems that tempers may be starting to rise a little in here. I encourage everyone to remember that someone questioning your beliefs should not be viewed as a threat, but rather a chance to strengthen your own "faith." Whether that be faith in a Supreme Being or in the laws of science and the evolution of our species... or whatever else it may be you believe.


Do you ever think about where an ant would go when you kill it? Do you have feelings for garbage when you burn it? You cease to exist, everything goes black and you die. That's my feelings at least. It would be nice to believe that when you die you go to a happy awsome place, it would make dying easier.

Then again you'll have to follow certain rules all your life or you go to hell. Living in constant fear of going to hell, one hell of a way to convert the unbelievers eh? You simply stop living. What happens when you sleep? Your brain is still slightly active giving you dreams. You die, your brain isn't active, thusly you don't dream. You think, see, hear, feel nothing.

You simply die and stop existing.
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Old 03-18-2006, 10:35 PM   #136
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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Nope. Not when Adam lived to be over 900 years old. It's like "What you don't believe? Well there's the first man ever standing right there!".
then why can't we live for that long? O.o
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Old 03-18-2006, 10:42 PM   #137
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Because like DangerDude said, their DNA was the first and unadulterated. Many people lived to be over 900 years old then. As the lines got diluted and diseased and less resistant, life spans became shorter and shorter until we got smart enough to essentially fix or rather prolong our dilution by the use of medicines and other things.
Cain was well over 100 years old before he killed Abel.
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Old 03-18-2006, 10:42 PM   #138
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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says who? I'm sure there is proof of other religions stretching even longer than Christianity.
As far as the known world at the time of the building of the tower of Babel all spoke the same language and had the same desire to build a tower to heaven to see GOD. God was not amused!!!
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Old 03-18-2006, 10:44 PM   #139
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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says who? I'm sure there is proof of other religions stretching even longer than Christianity.
Of course there are religions older than Christianity. Man makes up **** all the time for the use of control
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Old 03-18-2006, 10:51 PM   #140
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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Of course there are religions older than Christianity. Man makes up **** all the time for the use of control

But apparently Christianity isn't a use of control? Believe in God or you'll go to hell. Sounds pretty controling to me
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