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Old 03-14-2006, 02:53 AM   #1
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Can or Will Happen?

In my English 102 class I read this short story called 'The Star'

It's about these astronomers heading over to the Phoenix Nebula to check out star that had become a supernova in it's last stages. A Supernova is basically.. like blowing a balloon. It gets bigger, and bigger, and bigger.. so if the sun was doing that, it would get bigger, brighter, and hotter. Then like all balloons, they pop.. as would the sun, but in a different way. It would explode it's energy outward leaving behind the core in this massively awsome chaotic explosion.

Back to topic

The astronomers start to check out the remains of the star when they notice a planet is revolving around it. So they fly close by to it and notice a huge pylon that was built onto it's surface like a bulleye. They landed and found an outline of a vault at the base of the pylon which looked like a candle melted down nearly to it's base.

Inside the vault, they discovered a civilization that once thrived on the planet before the sun became a supernova destroying its inhabitants. The people put all their works, videos, pictures, books, and everything else they could save for someone to find in the vault. A civilization that knew it was about to die had made its last bid for immortality.

Among the treasures in the vault there was guides on how to play the videos written in their alien language and elaborate pictorial instructions with machines for projecting the videos. They got one of them to work as they watched a group of children on a beach of strange blue sand, playing in the waves as children play on Earth. Sinking into the sea, still warm and friendly and lifegiving, is the sun that will soon turn traitor and obliterate all this innocent happiness.

One of the astronomers (who is also narrating the story) is a Jesuit Priest. As he goes on with the story he's gone heavy into depression questioning his faith and beliefs to the point where he says this:

"Whether that race has done good or evil during its lifetime will make no difference in the end: there is no divine justice, for there is no God"

I thought the story was VERY powerful, and definitely a possibility of something we may come to terms with in the future in space exploration.
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Old 03-14-2006, 03:38 AM   #2
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

I have always been of the belief that if other life forms were indeed found to exist that it would cause mass chaous in the religious sector
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Old 03-14-2006, 03:43 AM   #3
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

I agree. Who are we to tell them "No, God created us, you must be a fluke"

Maybe then we can settle our differences and learn to live with each other in peace.
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Old 03-14-2006, 05:44 AM   #4
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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Originally Posted by Brent
I have always been of the belief that if other life forms were indeed found to exist that it would cause mass chaous in the religious sector
How is that??? I am a believer and yet I would think it was a great waste to make the billions and billions of planets and to know humans would never make it to all of them. It would also seem rather useless not to put life on them. Whether you are a believer or not I think it is rather absurd to think we are the only civilization out there.

The Bible says nothing about other beings on other planets and why should it. How could you possibly convey that there were other beings to a person 2000 years ago???? The Bible does not mention a lot about the Universe other than its creation.
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Old 03-14-2006, 06:34 AM   #5
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

I agree with Brent !! The religious sector would go crazy. How would they explain creation then ?? I also believe there are civilization out there
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Old 03-14-2006, 07:05 AM   #6
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Either cause mass chaos or confirm everything the Bible says. Gotta look at it that way too.

I'm definitely not the most church-going person in the world, but I'm also don't believe I'm in any position to say that what they teach is wrong. The way I see it is that even if what's said is the Bible is true, there are many subjects that are not even touched on in it. There are a lot of things left unexplained.

What will all the non-believers (including myself at times) say when we find another planet with humans almost identical to ourselves on it who believe in teachings very similar Christianity? Who knows... they may even believe that a savior died for them on some other planet to save them from their sins. Not saying that I personally think this will happen, but at the same time, it would be foolish and ignorant to say it's impossible.

Things like this are why I feel space exploration is so important. People have been fighting and killing each other over religious matters for thousands and thousands of years. Space holds the answers to many of the questions that have caused this fighting.
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Old 03-14-2006, 08:03 PM   #7
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

i doubt we were created by anything but another species who got bored one day and started playing with some DNA, threw it on a comet and bid it ****ing adieu. never thinking twice about what happens to that comet millions of years down the line, or possibly doing it on purpose knowing their DNA would one day spawn a species.
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Old 03-14-2006, 08:10 PM   #8
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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Originally Posted by Danger Dude
How is that??? I am a believer and yet I would think it was a great waste to make the billions and billions of planets and to know humans would never make it to all of them. It would also seem rather useless not to put life on them. Whether you are a believer or not I think it is rather absurd to think we are the only civilization out there.

The Bible says nothing about other beings on other planets and why should it. How could you possibly convey that there were other beings to a person 2000 years ago???? The Bible does not mention a lot about the Universe other than its creation.
So does God give out a different Bible to each civilization he creates or are there other civilizations just like Earth out there with the same human form as us using the same bible?
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Old 03-14-2006, 08:16 PM   #9
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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Originally Posted by EclipseGSTdude
i doubt we were created by anything but another species who got bored one day and started playing with some DNA, threw it on a comet and bid it ****ing adieu. never thinking twice about what happens to that comet millions of years down the line, or possibly doing it on purpose knowing their DNA would one day spawn a species.
That's ridiculous.
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Old 03-14-2006, 08:20 PM   #10
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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Originally Posted by EclipseGSTdude
i doubt we were created by anything but another species who got bored one day and started playing with some DNA, threw it on a comet and bid it ****ing adieu. never thinking twice about what happens to that comet millions of years down the line, or possibly doing it on purpose knowing their DNA would one day spawn a species.
Who created them?
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Old 03-14-2006, 08:28 PM   #11
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

That's part of why it's ridiculous.
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Old 03-14-2006, 09:07 PM   #12
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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That's part of why it's ridiculous.
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Old 03-14-2006, 09:50 PM   #13
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

The eternal question: Are we alone?

My personal belief is yes. There MIGHT be other life out there, but it won't be intelligent. I don't even really believe that is possible. I am a believer and I believe that God only made life on this planet. The rest was made for us to explore and marvel over and be entertained by.

I don't however, blindly throw out the possibility of other beings. It is very hard to imagine in all that vast emptyness that nothing else is out there to behold it and wonder the same things we wonder. It's hard to comprehend that in a infinite universe, there is no one else out there, but there are a lot of other things out there and in here that we don't comprehend.

If you read Genesis 1:1-2 it says: In the begining God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Depending on how you interpret this and other passages referring to before creation, it sort of implies that the earth was already here before He decided to create things on it. This is my theory: we are not the first nor last "experiment". It's possible that others have existed before us and it's possible that others will be made after us. He's still looking for that race that won't succumb to the fall in the garden...

And for you evolutionists out there, there is no way you can look at something so complex as the human body, or any body for that matter, and believe it just happened by chance and a few explosions.
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Old 03-14-2006, 10:00 PM   #14
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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Originally Posted by DarkShadow
The eternal question: Are we alone?

My personal belief is yes. There MIGHT be other life out there, but it won't be intelligent. I don't even really believe that is possible. I am a believer and I believe that God only made life on this planet. The rest was made for us to explore and marvel over and be entertained by.

I don't however, blindly throw out the possibility of other beings. It is very hard to imagine in all that vast emptyness that nothing else is out there to behold it and wonder the same things we wonder. It's hard to comprehend that in a infinite universe, there is no one else out there, but there are a lot of other things out there and in here that we don't comprehend.

If you read Genesis 1:1-2 it says: In the begining God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Depending on how you interpret this and other passages referring to before creation, it sort of implies that the earth was already here before He decided to create things on it. This is my theory: we are not the first nor last "experiment". It's possible that others have existed before us and it's possible that others will be made after us. He's still looking for that race that won't succumb to the fall in the garden...

And for you evolutionists out there, there is no way you can look at something so complex as the human body, or any body for that matter, and believe it just happened by chance and a few explosions.
It wasn't a few explosions, Chuck Norris roundhouse kicked... damn, I suck at this, I don't even know where to go with that. Lets try this:

Chuck Norris...
nothin. Damn
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Old 03-14-2006, 10:08 PM   #15
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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Originally Posted by DarkShadow
And for you evolutionists out there, there is no way you can look at something so complex as the human body, or any body for that matter, and believe it just happened by chance and a few explosions.
Sure I can.

But it wasn't really just chance and explosions though. I think it's part of the nature of the universe. Just like gravity. Give it the right conditions and enough time, and things happen.
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Old 03-14-2006, 10:09 PM   #16
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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Originally Posted by Brent
So does God give out a different Bible to each civilization he creates or are there other civilizations just like Earth out there with the same human form as us using the same bible?
Why would it be the same Bible. The act of humans created the conditions for our Bible. Another planet could be more rebellious or more god like so they would have very different circumstances and a different Bible.
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Old 03-14-2006, 10:15 PM   #17
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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Why would it be the same Bible. The act of humans created the conditions for our Bible. Another planet could be more rebellious or more god like so they would have very different circumstances and a different Bible.
Written by different bronze age tribes...
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Old 03-14-2006, 10:19 PM   #18
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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Originally Posted by DarkShadow
And for you evolutionists out there, there is no way you can look at something so complex as the human body, or any body for that matter, and believe it just happened by chance and a few explosions.
i can look at a human body and tell you its not very complex at all. pretty basic if you ask me. you eat, then your body takes the nutrients it needs and ****s the rest out. you breathe in oxygen with your lungs wich is saturated into your bloodstream, which distributes oxygen to all parts of your body. your cells are constantly multiplying and deviding, growing, and learning. each cell knows where every other cell should look like and go, so when you cut yourself, the cell on the edge knows to make a cell that used to go there, and that cell knows what goes next and so forth and so on, till your healed(this does not apply to severed limbs and exremities for reasons unknown at this time).

humans are pretty basic IMO. aside from being top dog on this world, were just like any other mammal. weve evolved to fit the role as being the top of the food chain on this planet, nobody simply put us here and said "ok, here you go, this place is yours, heres a spear and some fire, peace out"

i cant believe people still base their lives and existence around a simple book. youre here cause youre the child of evolution, if your cells were not able to evolve/multiply/devide/mutate, youd still be a sperm and a egg with no place to go.
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Old 03-14-2006, 10:20 PM   #19
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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Written by different bronze age tribes...
Exactly
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Old 03-14-2006, 10:22 PM   #20
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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Originally Posted by EclipseGSTdude
i can look at a human body and tell you its not very complex at all. pretty basic if you ask me. you eat, then your body takes the nutrients it needs and ****s the rest out. you breathe in oxygen with your lungs wich is saturated into your bloodstream, which distributes oxygen to all parts of your body. your cells are constantly multiplying and deviding, growing, and learning. each cell knows where every other cell should look like and go, so when you cut yourself, the cell on the edge knows to make a cell that used to go there, and that cell knows what goes next and so forth and so on, till your healed(this does not apply to severed limbs and exremities for reasons unknown at this time).

humans are pretty basic IMO. aside from being top dog on this world, were just like any other mammal. weve evolved to fit the role as being the top of the food chain on this planet, nobody simply put us here and said "ok, here you go, this place is yours, heres a spear and some fire, peace out"
If you ask me, what you just posted was a huge contradiction.
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Old 03-14-2006, 10:27 PM   #21
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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Originally Posted by DarkShadow
The eternal question: Are we alone?

My personal belief is yes. There MIGHT be other life out there, but it won't be intelligent. I don't even really believe that is possible. I am a believer and I believe that God only made life on this planet. The rest was made for us to explore and marvel over and be entertained by.

I don't however, blindly throw out the possibility of other beings. It is very hard to imagine in all that vast emptyness that nothing else is out there to behold it and wonder the same things we wonder. It's hard to comprehend that in a infinite universe, there is no one else out there, but there are a lot of other things out there and in here that we don't comprehend.

If you read Genesis 1:1-2 it says: In the begining God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Depending on how you interpret this and other passages referring to before creation, it sort of implies that the earth was already here before He decided to create things on it. This is my theory: we are not the first nor last "experiment". It's possible that others have existed before us and it's possible that others will be made after us. He's still looking for that race that won't succumb to the fall in the garden...

And for you evolutionists out there, there is no way you can look at something so complex as the human body, or any body for that matter, and believe it just happened by chance and a few explosions.

I am not sure why you would not think God would create other life forms of equal intelligence. He is God he does what he wills to do and we have for the most part let him down as a civilization as I see it. why wouldn't he create others in hope of being in his image and be a complete society based on him and him alone as he has decreed throughout the Bible. I think it is rather selfish to think gives his undivided attention to ourr pityful selfs. Remember we are here for him not the other way around. We as a civilization are to self centered and really dont give a crap about others. Sure we have friends but honsetly how may times do you just pass by people in need like the homeless or mentally ill and do nothing. We all do. Jesus prevented and mob from stoning a prostitute, Feed the hungry and walked with lepers. How in God's name do we even think we live to his standards.

Hell if I were him I would create another civilization on another planet just to come wipe our sorry asses out!!!
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Old 03-14-2006, 10:29 PM   #22
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Evolutionists cannot explain to me life.

Why is it that our bodies are made of billions of living beings - cells. Yet they all die if "the big consciousness" dies. We can sever large amounts of our bodies yet our life, what makes us living beings that are different from the numerous living beings that make up this thing that we exist in, does not die. Yet our life needs these lives working properly to live. And they need our life to live apparently. Because when we die the cells all die, even those that were unaffected by whatever killed us. Evolution cannot expalin in any way the essence of life, self awareness.
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Old 03-14-2006, 10:29 PM   #23
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Really... If we are so simple, then why did it take the millions of years to evolve that evolutionists claim? And why don't all these other species just evolve to be like us? Not that I totally don't believe evolutionists, I just disagree on us being basic organisms.

If we are so simple... I'd really like to know how memory works.

Our minds are even capable of sensing feeling in limbs that are no longer there (as you indicated yourself). The fact that we still don't understand how our own brains work after all these years of technological advances is a testament to the complexity of our species.
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Old 03-14-2006, 10:32 PM   #24
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

Quote:
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Evolution cannot expalin in any way the essence of life, self awareness.
Self awareness is a product of evolution.
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Old 03-14-2006, 10:33 PM   #25
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

oh yeah?

EXPLAIN DINOSAURS.

pwned.
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Old 03-14-2006, 10:34 PM   #26
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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Originally Posted by Danger Dude
I am not sure why you would not think God would create other life forms of equal intelligence. He is God he does what he wills to do and we have for the most part let him down as a civilization as I see it. why wouldn't he create others in hope of being in his image and be a complete society based on him and him alone as he has decreed throughout the Bible. I think it is rather selfish to think gives his undivided attention to ourr pityful selfs. Remember we are here for him not the other way around. We as a civilization are to self centered and really dont give a crap about others. Sure we have friends but honsetly how may times do you just pass by people in need like the homeless or mentally ill and do nothing. We all do. Jesus prevented and mob from stoning a prostitute, Feed the hungry and walked with lepers. How in God's name do we even think we live to his standards.

Hell if I were him I would create another civilization on another planet just to come wipe our sorry asses out!!!
That is why I said that I don't think we are the first experiment. I believe that when he creates a race that can be aware of his prescence and to some degree appreciate and honor it, he gives them his undivided attention. Of course we are here for him, without him we wouldn't be here, I think we are the only ones RIGHT NOW though. We have failed miserably and that is why he will end our experiment and only keep those that followed him. Then we hae eternity to explore what all he made out there.
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Old 03-14-2006, 10:35 PM   #27
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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Originally Posted by MarkuzLS1
Self awareness is a product of evolution.
I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound rude, but that is some major BS.
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Old 03-14-2006, 10:44 PM   #28
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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Originally Posted by DarkShadow
I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound rude, but that is some major BS.
Prove it

and while you're at it explain who created God and why he gets to govern my life
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Old 03-14-2006, 10:50 PM   #29
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound rude, but that is some major BS.
Why? Wouldn't self awareness provide a major evolutionary advantage? Just like a warm blooded metabolism or the ability to percieve your environment? It makes perfect sense to me.
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Old 03-14-2006, 10:53 PM   #30
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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Prove it

and while your at it explain who created God and why he gets to govern my life
He can't. Just like no one can prove evolution, scientology, or the Hindu belief in reincarnation. Unfortunately, none of these can be proven right or wrong. No matter how hard some may try.

BTW... I love threads like this. It's always cool to see what other people think no matter how much you may disagree with them. The way I see it, if you really believe in something, then questioning that belief should only make it stronger. Otherwise... it may be time to re-analyze what you do and do not believe.
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Old 03-14-2006, 11:01 PM   #31
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

What if you were the priest in the story?
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Old 03-14-2006, 11:07 PM   #32
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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He can't. Just like no one can prove evolution, scientology, or the Hindu belief in reincarnation. Unfortunately, none of these can be proven right or wrong. No matter how hard some may try.
Exactly so calling BS is not something he should be doing.

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BTW... I love threads like this. It's always cool to see what other people think no matter how much you may disagree with them. The way I see it, if you really believe in something, then questioning that belief should only make it stronger. Otherwise... it may be time to re-analyze what you do and do not believe.
Me too
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Old 03-14-2006, 11:37 PM   #33
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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He can't. Just like no one can prove evolution, scientology, or the Hindu belief in reincarnation. Unfortunately, none of these can be proven right or wrong. No matter how hard some may try.

BTW... I love threads like this. It's always cool to see what other people think no matter how much you may disagree with them. The way I see it, if you really believe in something, then questioning that belief should only make it stronger. Otherwise... it may be time to re-analyze what you do and do not believe.
I agree 100%.

I can't "prove" a lick of it, but as far as an explanation for self awarness being having a huge advantage over other forms of life is rediculous. A monkey decided one day that he would have an advantage over all the other monkies if he became self aware? Okay, lets say that is how it happened, you still cannot explain to me how a concept like that "evolves".

As far as evolution causing life,
Life needs the whole pachakge to live. Even the most simple unicellular organism relies on numerous systems to exist. Without any one of these, it would die. So in the process of evolution figuring out what works and what doesn't, countless millions of "things" had some of the systems but not all of them and therefore did not "live", and something that is close cannot stay in "almost alive" limbo long enough for evolution to get it right so it has to start over. The probability of evolution getting it right even once would be astronomical let alone then making one that could reproduce or cell divide. And all this still does not explain what causes something to "live" in the first place.

What I'm driving at is, to me, it takes a lot less faith to believe that a supremely powerful being is the explanation for everything than it does to believe that everything from gravity to life exists because of chance and explosions.

As I've said before, you cannot explain life by evolution.
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Old 03-14-2006, 11:41 PM   #34
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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I agree 100%.

I can't "prove" a lick of it, but as far as an explanation for self awarness being having a huge advantage over other forms of life is rediculous. A monkey decided one day that he would have an advantage over all the other monkies if he became self aware? Okay, lets say that is how it happened, you still cannot explain to me how a concept like that "evolves".

As far as evolution causing life,
Life needs the whole pachakge to live. Even the most simple unicellular organism relies on numerous systems to exist. Without any one of these, it would die. So in the process of evolution figuring out what works and what doesn't, countless millions of "things" had some of the systems but not all of them and therefore did not "live", and something that is close cannot stay in "almost alive" limbo long enough for evolution to get it right so it has to start over. The probability of evolution getting it right even once would be astronomical let alone then making one that could reproduce or cell divide. And all this still does not explain what causes something to "live" in the first place.

What I'm driving at is, to me, it takes a lot less faith to believe that a supremely powerful being is the explanation for everything than it does to believe that everything from gravity to life exists because of chance and explosions.

As I've said before, you cannot explain life by evolution.
No supreme being belief for me. That is just as crazy to me as the evolution theory is to you
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Old 03-14-2006, 11:46 PM   #35
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Re: Can or Will Happen?

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As I've said before, you cannot explain life by evolution.
I explained it as a part of the way the universe behaves. Why's that any more (or less) unbelievable than some big man up in the sky that creates people out of dirt and ribs and such? Besides, putting your explanation of why we're all here on "somebody put us here" just begs the question. Or are they just part of the way the universe works, too?

Just like fire...put the right molecules all together and give them the right conditions, and it happens. Such is life.
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