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Old 04-25-2006, 02:39 PM   #1
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Physics gods: Step in and help me out here

Webmaster Forum - View Single Post - What Destroyed The World Trade Centers?

When you all get time, please watch all these videos and give me your honest opinion on them.

I want your opinion on whether or not the two planes that hit the World Trade Center were the only things responsible for the collapse of the WTC towers.

Please provide reasoning for your answer.
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Old 04-25-2006, 02:43 PM   #2
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Re: Physics gods: Step in and help me out here

the planes hitting the towers didn't cause them to go down... if that were the case, then they would've fallen right away, from structural instability.

What caused them to fall is the following:
the fuel burning on the steel caused the steel structure/frame work of the building to be compromised at the site of the fire. Thus, it allowed the floors above the crash site to have compromised stability. When they finally fell onto the floor where the crash had happened, the steel framework wasn't strong enough to support the floors FALLING on them, and all the framework under that kept breaking in a sequential pattern, and you know what happens from there. If the fires had been able to be put out, the towers would not have fallen.
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Old 04-25-2006, 02:48 PM   #3
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Re: Physics gods: Step in and help me out here

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy_beaner
the planes hitting the towers didn't cause them to go down... if that were the case, then they would've fallen right away, from structural instability.

What caused them to fall is the following:
the fuel burning on the steel caused the steel structure/frame work of the building to be compromised at the site of the fire. Thus, it allowed the floors above the crash site to have compromised stability. When they finally fell onto the floor where the crash had happened, the steel framework wasn't strong enough to support the floors FALLING on them, and all the framework under that kept breaking in a sequential pattern, and you know what happens from there. If the fires had been able to be put out, the towers would not have fallen.
I want you to respond to the videos claims please. That is what I believe too, but I want someone with Physics under their belt to respond to the videos.
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Old 04-25-2006, 02:50 PM   #4
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Re: Physics gods: Step in and help me out here

well, I was a physics major... only had modern physics left to take... I'm on dial up, it'd take all day for that, and since I saw almost all the videos the first time when it happened, and remember my judgement then... I figured I'd put it up.
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Old 04-25-2006, 02:51 PM   #5
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Re: Physics gods: Step in and help me out here

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy_beaner
well, I was a physics major... only had modern physics left to take... I'm on dial up, it'd take all day for that, and since I saw almost all the videos the first time when it happened, and remember my judgement then... I figured I'd put it up.
Well when you get a chance watch them and give me your feedback.
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Old 04-25-2006, 02:58 PM   #6
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Re: Physics gods: Step in and help me out here

which ones are best to watch?
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Old 04-25-2006, 03:00 PM   #7
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Re: Physics gods: Step in and help me out here

There was no internal steal structure in the WTC buildings as in normal Sky scraper buildings. When the appro 115,000 lbs of fuel melted the floor structures that held the outer stainless exostructure erect the floors gave way and all the floors above the fire fell on the lower floors and that broke loose the walls and the building collapsed from the inside and the outer exostructure peeled away. I can say with all certainty no one will build a building that big again using that type of building technique.
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Old 04-25-2006, 03:05 PM   #8
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Re: Physics gods: Step in and help me out here

http://reopen911.org/video/Reopen911_part_9.wmv
http://reopen911.org/video/Reopen911_part_10.wmv
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Old 04-25-2006, 03:05 PM   #9
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Re: Physics gods: Step in and help me out here

Yes, and jet fuel burns MUCH hotter than regular fuel. I think survivors were talking about people dying just from the heat of the spilling fuel as they were running out.
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Old 04-25-2006, 03:10 PM   #10
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Re: Physics gods: Step in and help me out here

I was browsing another forum and ran into this. I have not read all of them and im sure most are full of crap but its interesting lol. I know putting the word FACT in front of stuff doesnt mean its a fact. Goes to show you what a good many people are thinking out there.... :spaz:

FACT: I just won 100 million dollars. See that didnt work.

FACT: The videos and reports of beheadings in Iraq by 'terrorists' were staged to enraged Americans. Most likely by the USA CIA/MI/psyops. There are over 50 irregularities to support this fact. Two are - no blood or very little blood. In a real beheading of a live body, blood
sprays everywhere. Many doctors have commented that the body being beheaded must have already been already deceased. Also, digital watermarking proves that the camera used was the same camera used to film at Iraqi prisons by the USA (not a 'terrorist's' camera). Every camera has a digital fingerprint. (Digimark.com).
See all 50 irregularities here: Nick Berg Beheading Video is a Fake, False-Flag, Psy-op

FACT: Remember the toppling of Saddam's statue in Iraq? Where the soldier puts a US flag over the head of the statue, then they proceed to pull it over? It was set up via the US media as an impromptu event with Iraqis cheering; inc the little boy running along hitting the head with his shoe. The fact is - it was all preplanned and scripted. A PR firm under contract with the Pentagon set that all up. The Iraqis in attendance, made to look like thousands, were actually dozens, all PAID to be there.
Professor Christopher Simpson, American University: "This particular event was more of what you might call a propaganda event. It was a publicity, a photo-op if you will."

FACT: International drug trading was slowed when the Taliban burned all their poppy fields in Afghanistan. American's source of herion from Afghanistan, dried to zero. Since the CIA runs the international drug laundering/supply trade (www.fromthewilderness.com), this had to be corrected. The Northern Alliances' first directive upon the USA's attack on Afghanistan was to remove the grain, corn, and other agricultural crops and get the poppy fields back into full production. Now, thanks to the USA/CIA, the poppy fields are back to 100% and drugs from Afghanistan are flowing back into the USA.
Part of the reason you do not hear as much about Afghanistan these days is 1) drug trade is restored, and 2) there is not as much oil in the Caspian Sea as Unocal had hoped. 19 of 20 test drillings are coming up dry! Darn it! Oh well, there is always Iranian oil ....

FACT: Nearly every top CIA official has the same former job on their resume. They are all former Bankers or Wall streeters. Only. Most can be tied to the Savings and Loan scandals and much worse.

FACT: On August 15th, 2001, leaders of the Taliban were in negotiations with Unocal to run oil pipelines through Afghanistan to the Caspian Sea. The Taliban turned down Unocal. Within six weeks, President Bush signed a president directive to organize the attack of Afghanistan (post-9/11).

FACT: The US-supported new President of Afghanistan is a former employee of Unocal, with close ties to Haliburton.

FACT: Since 'real terrorists' are far and few between, the USA propagandists needed prisoners for US prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan. The CIA paid a bounty of $25k for any Muslims - goat herders, cab drivers, carpet weavers, etc - that could be rounded up (primarily in Pakistan) and delivered to US custody as 'terrorists.' Many of these innocent people have been held for 3+ years in 4x6 cells, many have been brutally tortured by sadistic guards. Very few or none were ever a threat to the USA, or even spoke out against the USA.

FACT: In 31 days, a minimum of 3,800 innocent Afghan were killed by USA special forces. Mostly old men, women and children. This is a very conservative number. Operation 'Infinite Justice.'

FACT: The justification for attacking Afghanistan was Bid Laden's so-called 'confession tape' conveniently found in a home. It was an obvious fake.

FACT: Five Israelis (two confirmed Mossad agents) were seen filming and partying as jet liners ploughed into the Twin Towers on September 11, 2001. An old lady in her apartment spotted them and called the NYPD; they were arrested, but later released via the CIA (a NYC judged had ordered them deported). Upon their discovery, one of them said "we are on your side, against the terrorists!"

FACT: Rice lied that they did not anticipate hijackers using airplanes as weapons yet FEMA's cover image (on their website) depicts just such an attack (prior to 9/11)!

FACT: At Hiroshima, when we dropped the atom bomb, steel highrise structures CORE COLUMNS still stood - THAT is how strong structural steel really is. Atom bomb did not do it, but small diesel fires did it (WTC7). Just how gullible can some people be?

FACT: If WTC7 - a 47-story steel monster really fell from small diesel fires then every person working in a highrise should panic. No need to panic.

FACT: Both impacts and fires in the Twin Towers did not hit the center of the buildings. That means that only two sides of the building were harmed at most and two sides were structurally sound. Building 7 had no impact or significant fires. Yet all three collapses are perfectly straight down. Only the tops of the Towers should have fallen over, not the entire building all straight down, just like a controlled demolition.

FACT: The government was running drills of an attack on the WTC towers just in case something went wrong, there would be a cover story. Same story with the bogus 1993 WTC attack. Same story with the bogus 7/7 London Bombings. If the government is running 'drills' - get far away fast.

FACT: In 1976, the government planned out a mock attack on the WTC towers where hijackers would take control of airplanes with .... boxcutters. It was seen as a way to boost military funding and support.

FACT: George Bush, said that he saw on TV the first plane hit the first WTC tower within minutes of impact. Whose video was he watching? No media outlet in the country had a video of the first plane crash available to broadcast until several hours later, yet Bush is watching the crash within minutes. The only people who would have had a video available that quickly would have been those who knew in advance what was going to happen and were set up to film it.

FACT: The Patriot Act was prepared before 9/11 and not read by any member of Congress before passage. Patriot II is now already drafted and ready to go, and much worse. It will essentially give the authorities military-state powers.

FACT: Atta's passport was supposedly found in the ground zero rumbled, unscathed - that's a paper passport folks! .. also .. a passenger's drivers license was found in perfect shape at the Pentagon .. pretty sad case of 'drop and walk.'

FACT: Hijacked planes supposedly flew around the country for 1.5 hours while our national defense looked the other way; stood down; cooperated; read magazines. Two F16 pilots were supposedly so incompetent that they flew the wrong direction for a half hour - out over the Atlantic! Where are Maverick and Goose when you need them! A Senator called this 'gross, unbelievable negligence.' Even Jesse 'the Body' Ventura said the whole stand down fiasco was very fishy.

FACT: Only 14 fighter aircraft were airborne or standing ready on the morning of 9/11 for the defense of the entire USA.

FACT: No evidence was ever found at the Pentagon that a 757 Boeing crashed there. Turbine displayed for the cameras was 1/3rd the size of a turbine of a 757. The fan shroud pieces around the turbine in closeup photos do not match the Rolls Royce components of a 757. No seats. No bodies (an FBI dog could not find ONE trace of human remains). We are to believe that a 40'+ tall plane penetrated three steel reinforced walls and left 12' holes behind, but no wings, no tail, no seats ... no way. A Rolls Royce spokesman stated that the fan shroud shown in pictures (supposedly meant to back up the story that a 757 did hit the Pentagon) could not have possible come from a 757. Plus it is way too small. No way could a 757 penetrate steel reinforced concrete multiple walls. "A plane is like a sausage skin: it doesn't have much strength and virtually crumbles on impact." The light-grey smoke was indicative of a DU warhead strike, and not jet fuel.

FACT: DNA from most of the flight 77 Pentagon passengers and crew were supposedly recovered (dog above must have not been well trained?). The DNA remains that arrived at Dover for examination did not come from the Pentagon directly though. It came from a military base.

FACT: The flight instructor for the Flight 77 supposed terrorist said he could 'not fly well,' that he was an incompetent and unmotivated student that could barely handle a Cessna.

FACT: Atta and his pals were at a strip bar hooting and hollering on Sept 10th in Daytona Beach. They even argued over a bar tab. Sounds like strictly religious Muslims ready to make the ultimate sacrifice to Allah.

FACT: CNN reporter 15 minutes after the 'attack' on the Pentagon ... "there is no sign of a Boeing 757 here at the Pentagon." "We can clearly see where the plane supposedly hit, but there is no plane."

FACT: The USA is using two killer WMDs on Iraqi citizens - depleted uranium (DU) ammunition and white phosphorus (an advanced napalm-like weapon).

FACT: Depleted uranium has a radioactive half life of 4.7 billion years. American forces admit to using over 300 tons of depleted uranium weapons in 1991. The actual figure is closer to 800. Since 1990, the incident rate of leukemia in Iraq has grown by more than 600 percent.

FACT: The flash from the impact at the Pentagon is bright white. Indicative of explosives or an explosive warhead, not a jet fuel explosion.

FACT: At least nine of the supposed 19 hijackers on 9/11 are still alive. None of the passenger manifests showed any of their names. No Muslims were on any of the flights per the manifests.

FACT: In order to reach the Pentagon, the supposed terrorist/hijacker flew directly over a large nuclear power plant. An easy target that would have resulted in tens of thousands of deaths and mass hysteria far worse than ground zero.

FACT: The terrorist also aimed for the least occupied part of the Pentagon whereas striking the center of the Pentagon from above would have been easier and caused far more damage. Why would a real terrorist do that? Why try a daredevil flying stunt to go around to the other side of a building, opposite Rumsfield's office? Too obvious indeed.

FACT: Jet fuel cannot melt structural steel - ever - structural steel can sit in burning jet fuel for many hours (Madrid, 2005). 800-1200F cannot melt or weaken structural steel enough to cause a collapse (structural steel is made to hold 5x-6x its load bearing weight). It cannot even melt aluminum. Skycrapers supported with structural steel do not fall from fire, period.

FACT: Senator Paul Wellstone, who was pushing the hardest for a real 9/11 investigation, died in an unfortunate plane crash along with his family.

FACT: Wind gusts put more impact on WTC1 and 2 then the planes hitting the towers. Neither tower was bent nor did they creak or groan at any time. The towers were designed to withstand the impact of similar aircraft.

FACT: Only Thermite/explosives could account for 1370F+ temperatures at ground zero five DAYS after the collapse (much hotter than jet fuel burning in ideal conditions). Bush could block investigators, but he could not stop independent satellites that can measure ground heat.

FACT: Each piece of destroyed steel was under twenty feet in length. With demolitions it is done this way so the structural steel can be hauled away on trucks without the need for cutting/torching sections. Small pieces also make for smaller footprints of debris.

FACT: The towers fell in under ten seconds. Impossible without controlled demolition. Floors falling into each other face resistance. If each floor would only 'hold' for .5 seconds that is 55 seconds. That is about how long it would have taken IF the official story is to be believed. Breaking through floors, and welding and supports takes TIME.

FACT: People were walking around in the hole where the plane hit WTC2 - not only was the fire burned out, the residual area already cooled. Firefighters reported that the WTC2 was nearly out and easily contained. Most of the jet fuel burned up on impact.

FACT: The WTC1 and WTC2 concrete was encased in a steel framed pan yet clouds of finely pulverized concrete and steel beams came shooting out of the buildings for up to three times the width of the building at hundreds of miles per hour - only possible with explosives. Video clearly shows steel pillars being shot out of the towers sideways at great speed on floors below the fires as the buildings collapsed.

FACT: Demolition always results in the 'concrete powder' everywhere spewing at the base and the building falling perfectly - straight down - as in - controlled demolition. With WTC7, the classic 'crimp' where the building falls in on itself can be seen.

FACT: Not one piece of WTC rubble was made available testing. Why? A simple test could have shown traces of Thermite and/or other explosives used. Why did the government act like criminals hiding evidence?

FACT: All the scrap metal at ground zero was shipped out of the country ASAP (to China). Not just shipped though - guarded like Fort Knox is more like it. Every load was GPS tracked. One driver apparently stopped for a snack and was immediately fired and replaced.

FACT: Explosions can be clearly seen and heard going off on the lower floors on WTC1 and WTC 2 right before the collapse(s) started. "Squibs" or outward explosive charges can be seen cleared with detailed unretouched video.

FACT: WTC7 fires were very small and should have easily been extinguished by sprinklers. They were reported to be diesel fires. Diesel fuel cannot melt or weaken steel. WTC7 had HUGE beams.

FACT: The 23rd floor of WTC7 had its own bomb/bullet proof glass, its own oxygen supply, its own water supply at a cost of 15 million dollars. However, we are supposed to believe this emergency facility was immediately abandoned. It was built to survive 9/11 then was abandoned when it could be used? Hint: It was used.

FACT: A white jet airliner was circling restricted airspace over WTC1 and WTC2 during the attacks. The same type/color of aircraft was also flying about the Pentagon during it's attack. Detailed video clearly shows the planes were there, as do eye witnesses.

FACT: Condoleezza Rice is a liar: the attack on the Pentagon was rehearsed in the Pentagon Mass Casulty planning excercise on October 24, 2000. She stated to the American people that a jet attack on the Pentagon was never expected as a possibility.

FACT: Employees of Odigo, the instant messaging service, did not show up for work in WTC2 on 9/11? Why? Two of their workers received messages two hours before the attacks predicting the attack would happen and to stay away. Conincidently, Odigo's headquarters are in Israel.

FACT: The building's owner admitted that WTC7 was imploded; implosion requires weeks of preparation. Larry Silverstein made a profit of approx $440 million off the 9/11 attacks. He took over as leaseholder just two-three months before the attacks. As the church lady would say "How convenient."
Larry told the news documentary folks that he and the NTPD agreed to 'pull' the building and they asked all firefighters to 'pull back' from the building so they could do so.

FACT: WTC2 fell in 8.6 seconds. A steel beam tossed off the roof would hit the ground at the same rate; only by controlled demolition. Physics, mathematics and science do not lie.

FACT: George W. Bush's brother, Marvin P. Bush 's company Securacom - was put in charge of WTC security just months before the attacks. A few weeks before 9/11 Securacom closed down the towers for a 'cabling upgrade' that required all the power to be cut, including security cameras. Can you say 'Thermite.' Also, bomb sniffing dogs were banned from the building 2-3 weeks before the 9/11 attacks; no explanation given.

FACT: The flights used in the 9/11 attacks had flight seating available for 1328 people. Typically, flights are filled to 75%-90% capacity. On 9/11, actual occupancy on all flights was 266. A 20.03% occupancy.

FACT: Bomb sniffing dogs, always on service previously at the WTC towers (due to the 1993 attacks) were removed on Sept 6th without any explanation.

FACT: The WTC towers had an estimated 144 to 167 billion dollars in gold in storage. 200 million was recovered. Obviously, the rest was move out. A truck filled with gold was discovered in WTC 5. How did they know in advance to take the gold out?

FACT: Of the 19 alleged hijackers identified by the FBI, at least six (some sources say as many as 9) turned up alive after the attack. The FBI's identifications included names, photographs, and, in several cases, other personal details -- all of which matched the six persons who surfaced after the attack to proclaim their innocence.

FACT: 20 citizens of Colombia and 15 citizens from the Philippines died in the World Trade Center attacks. The death toll for Israelis citizens would be expected to be much higher than that. New York is the center of international Jewish financial power, and the World Trade Center is at its epicenter. The international Jewish involvement in banking and finance is legendary. Two of the largest and richest firms in New York are Goldman-Sachs and Solomon Brothers. Both firms have offices in several floors in the twin towers of the World Trade Center. Many executives in those firms regularly commute to and from Israel conducting international banking and business. One would expect the Israeli death toll to be catastrophic. In fact, Israel first announced that 4,000 Israelis citizens were suspected to have been killed in the WTC attacks. That number was based upon the number of Israelis who worked at the WTC or had business in or adjacent to the WTC towers. Surprisingly, Alon Pinkas, Israel's consul general confirmed that only three Israelis were killed in the 9-11-01 WTC attacks. Two Israelis were killed in the two planes which crashed into the towers, and one Israeli, who had been visiting one of the World Trade Center towers on business, was killed. That is it?! Only three of potentially thousands of Israelis working in the WTC were killed on 9-11?! How is that possible? 9-11-01 was not at Jewish holiday; so where were the Israelis who ordinarily would have been working in the World Trade Center?

FACT: Many people believe that the Israelis engineered the 9/11 attacks. This is not the case. They were aware of the attacks though. Even though the attacks definitely worked in their favor - they tried to warn the US intelligence agencies many times, but were ignored because the US intelligence agencies were supporting/escorting/engineering the terrorist's movements all the way. They were just patsies that did not have a prayer. None were probably ever above any of those planes. They were put forth for a photo opp only. Many are still alive, at least nine.

FACT: The largest Israeli tenant in the WTC towers broke their lease and moved out one week prior to 9/11.

FACT: Crews at the Pentagon were decontaminated for uranium - even the dogs were washed down. No such treatment at WTC1 and 2, which were much more chaotic. Depleted uranium is used in advanced weaponry including missiles.

FACT: The only witnesses that said they saw a 757 also stated that the 757 skidded across the Pentagon lawn and into the building. There was no damage to the Pentagon lawn however. Later, the next day, realizing this ... the government started laying gravel across the lawn.

FACT: Giant cable spools were standing 10-12' high in front of the impact area at the Pentagon. They were not touched, but the official story is the 757 was skimming across the Pentagon lawn and into the building.

FACT: Other witnesses said they saw what appeared to be a small plane or missile. Others heard a 'whoosing' sound like that made by a missile. One person (with aviation experience) who got a bird's eye view when it flew near his office window said it was small - "it could have held maybe 10-12 people at most."

FACT: Three of the "hijackers" listed a US Navy base as their address on their drivers licenses.

FACT: The evidence found at the Pentagon fits a Global Hawk drove craft. Six were built. Four now are accounted for; the Air Force can't say what happened to 5 and 6.

FACT: The targets of the anthrax attacks were the Senators who opposed the USA Patriot [sic] Act, which was then passed by Congress without its being printed or read.

FACT: Government personnel were walking the lawn to retrieve evidence even before a rescue/recovery effort had started. Any pieces that could not be immediately picked up we covered with a thick blue tarp to hide them from cameras.

FACT: The Pentagon has the best camera technology in the world at it disposal. The video released of the supposed flight 77 hitting the Pentagon looked like it was filmed with a cell phone. No one took credit for that released video officially. If disproved as retouched or fake, the Pentagon could claim it was never an official video.

FACT: Real video was immediately confiscated; even in remote areas. A camera at the Sheridan hotel filmed the 'attack.' The employees watched it before the FBI got there (within minutes). They were told that if they ever shared what they saw they would be prosecuted immediately.

FACT: A 757 could not have made the flightpath. An aircraft controller said it must definitely be "an F16 or other military craft."

FACT: No one heard the roar of a 757. It supposedly flew just a few feet about the freeway - full of cars that morning. At 500mph, ten feet or so above the ground, cars would have been severely rattled if not blown off the road - they were not. Not to mention that the approach was riddled with 20-26' telephone/electrical poles. Large commercial aircraft have spun and crashed from hitting just ONE lightpole before. Only a small craft or missile could have fit.

FACT: A United Airlines pilot with 22 years experience flying Boeings, including 757s said the supposed flightpath was 'impossible.' He said it would have induced a stall. A 757 simply cannot descend thousands of feet in seconds while performing a sharp 240 degree turn. He added, "Not one chance in a million that a 757 could do that with even a veternan pilot at the controls."

FACT: Rumsfield mentioned the attack on the Pentagon. Before it happened.

FACT: Bush said he saw the first plane hit the WTC1 tower on TV. That would have been impossible at that time.

FACT: In 2001, passengers supposedly called relatives from the planes at 32k feet+ from their personal cell phones; the only problem is, that is impossible. Independent testing by physics911.com in the exact same area show that the success rate for connecting an air-ground cell phone call are .006% - at 32,000 feet! That is just for connecting. Supposedly, one of these calls went on for 27 minutes, although, of course, the FBI won't release the recordings. One passenger, when calling his mother, referred to himself by his first and last name. When was the last time you heard someone doing that? Hi, Mom, this is Mark Bingham calling!

A flight attendant is describing stabbings going on around her - nearby - but there is only silence in the background (her call was supposedly made from an Airphone, not a personal cell phone. Why no screams from passengers during her call and why would terrorists allow her to call from an Airphone?

The cell phone calls were fake, no question about it. In 2004, American Airlines installed technology to allow limited cell calling from planes at a cost of millions. Why would they need to do that if it was already possible?

FACT: Many airline and related stocks were shorted the day before 9/11. No real investigation was ever put forth.

FACT: Just as there were no plane wreckage at the Pentagon, there was no actually plane wreckage in Pennsylvania. Just a long entrenched hole. No wings. No seats. No tail. No bodies. The local coroner said there was no reason for him to be there since there were no bodies.

FACT: The 350+ page Patriot Act was pre-written for 9/11 and not read by one representative that voted for it. It has little to do with stopping terrorists; all to do with taking civil liberties from American citizens.

FACT: In a video where Bin Laden apparently admitted to being behind the 9/11 attacks it is very blurry. He is taking notes with his right hand while speaking. Bin Laden is left handed. He is also wearing a large gold ring on his 'wedding finger." Gold rings are forbidden under Islamic law. Bin Asset most likely had very little to do with 9/11. In a previous statement weeks before 9/11 Bin Laden said he had and has no plans to attack the USA - he wanted to - but respected the wishes of his protectors.

FACT: "A steel building survived fires in experiments with extreme temperatures beyond the range possible with jet fuel."- Cardington fire tests

FACT: No steel skyscraper in history has ever fallen from fire (pre or post-911). Never. Not even worldwide. A skyscraper in Madrid burned in a huge fireball encompassing the whole structure for many hours. It did not fall. Even a steel crane at the top was still there after the fire was extinguished.

FACT: The last transmission from a firefighter inside WTC2 was "bombs, get out!" NYC firefighters were filmed discussing the detonations they clearly heard going off before the buildings fell.

FACT: Flight recorders were recovered from the planes that hit WTC1 and WTC2, but the FBI will never disclose their information.

FACT: The investigation of the WTC "is a half-baked farce." - Fire Engineering Magazine. Jan 2002

FACT: The WTC attacks were the worst crime ever on USA soil. $600k was spent investigating the WTC collapses vs. $40 million on Clinton's sex life. The entire 9/11 Commission only spent $15 million while all expenditures on Clinton's indiscretion exceed $65 million.

FACT: In 1960, the USA wanted to frame Castro for attacking the USA. The plan was called Operation Northwoods. It is now declassified. Part of the plan: Dress up one of our jets to look like a MIG and attack US aircraft. This would enrage Americans and allow our then chickenhawks to launch an invasion of Cuba.

FACT: The Gulf of Tonkin incident that President Johnson used to enrage the American people into supporting the Vietnam War was a lie; the North Vietnamese never attacked one of our ships. President Johnson knew this, but when on national TV to tell the American people that the USA had been attacked.

FACT: We knew the Japanese were coming at Pearl Harbor. A 1944 Army review stated "we knew they were coming and allowed it to happen." Hitler would not be baited (even our sinking of German ships was ignored rather than Hitler declaring war on us), so we got into WWII via Pearl. Sacrificing 3000 navy personnel was a fair price to pay for a ticket to ride.

FACT: Government sponsored terror is nothing new. It dates back hundreds of years. Even the Caesars of Rome came into power via staged attacks and threats. Why some people believe the USA current day would be use fake terror is illogical and unlikely.

FACT: Bush and Cheney fought very hard to limit an investigation into 9/11. Bush even pleaded concessions with the minority democratic leadership to vote against 9/11 investigation funding. Why is that?

FACT: Without 9/11, most experts agree George W Bush would not have been re-elected. "Strong on Terror" was the campaign catchphrase, along with 'terror alerts' and fear mongering.

FACT: Without 9/11, there would have been much greater congressional opposition of our invasion of Iraq (for oil/control) and Afghanistan (oil routes/control).

FACT: Without 9/11, the Patriot Act would not exist; it empowers government over the people. It was prewritten and ready prior to 9/11. Patriot II is already pre-drafted now and ready. It is much worse Draconian legislation. States like Iowa and cities like Miami are already initiating oppressive and excessive police actions indicative of the first stages of a police state.

FACT: Since 1998-1999, hundreds of detention facilities, large concentration camps (with massive barb wire and towers), and smaller facilities are being rebuilt or built from scratch all over the USA. They have personnel/guards - carrying M16s and MP5s, but no 'residents' - yet. Why are these camps being built at a breakneck pace and who will be moved in? You? Just like when the Japanese Americans were taken to camps ... the camps were of course pre-built first right under the noses of Americans.

FACT: It is naive, not to mention racist to assume that tyrants appear only in other nations and that somehow America is immune simply because we're Americans. America has escaped the clutches of a dictatorship thus far only through the efforts of those citizens who, unlike the Germans of the 1930s, have the moral courage to stand up and point out where the government is lying to the people. And unless more Americans are willing to have that kind of individual courage, then future generations may well look back on the American people with the same harshness of judgment with which we look back on the 1930s Germans.

FACT: Without 9/11, billions of war profits would not have been made for the no-bid Halliburtons and the oil conglomerates. Millions of dollars are made for every US serviceman killed.

FACT: If you are a sheep, facts won't matter.
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Old 04-25-2006, 03:37 PM   #11
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Re: Physics gods: Step in and help me out here

FACT: Without 9/11, the Patriot Act would not exist; it empowers government over the people. It was prewritten and ready prior to 9/11. Patriot II is already pre-drafted now and ready. It is much worse Draconian legislation. States like Iowa and cities like Miami are already initiating oppressive and excessive police actions indicative of the first stages of a police state.


Iowa is a police state? since when? I really doubt that was written by anyone that has had any experience with the Iowa legal system... or cops.
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Old 04-25-2006, 03:56 PM   #12
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Re: Physics gods: Step in and help me out here

lol
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Old 04-25-2006, 04:31 PM   #13
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Re: Physics gods: Step in and help me out here

That list is just a bunch of bs scare tactics
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Old 04-25-2006, 04:33 PM   #14
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Re: Physics gods: Step in and help me out here

lol
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Old 04-25-2006, 04:41 PM   #15
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Re: Physics gods: Step in and help me out here

But it did make for a long post that I only read 3 of before clicking page 2.
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Old 04-25-2006, 04:45 PM   #16
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Re: Physics gods: Step in and help me out here

I read all of them... now I wonder who's going to give me that 10 minutes of my life back.
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Old 04-25-2006, 04:52 PM   #17
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Re: Physics gods: Step in and help me out here

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpectorV
I was browsing another forum and ran into this. I have not read all of them and im sure most are full of crap but its interesting lol. I know putting the word FACT in front of stuff doesnt mean its a fact. Goes to show you what a good many people are thinking out there.... :spaz
Fact 90 % of that is rubbish

There is no oil line to protect in Afghanistan. Somebody been taking to much LSD. All the oil is piped into the terminals in the Persian Gulf Afghanistan is the other way.

All his facts about the Aircraft that hit the pentagon are utter nonsense. Nothing I repeat Nothing we have or our enemys have as far as missiles could have done that kind of damage to the pentagon. When a missile hits it explodes lewavbing a hole. Where did all the combustable fluid come from to burn for days. See only a large airplane could carry that amount of fuel. That is why they picked the 757, 767 to hit the WTC and pentagon. They are flying tubes of combustable liquid. An explosion itself would not bring the WTC's down. But 115,000 pounds of fuel can
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Old 04-25-2006, 04:58 PM   #18
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Re: Physics gods: Step in and help me out here

Any response to these two videos?
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Old 04-25-2006, 05:12 PM   #19
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Re: Physics gods: Step in and help me out here

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Originally Posted by Brent
Any response to these two videos?
Sure I can explain it. When the area where the fire was melted it did not do so uniformly one side went before the others and fell to the side. This is so simple. The floors that were on fire were incapable of hold up the building above it. When have you ever seen a anything fall perfectly even unless it is a controlled building demolition.


How did this women walk thru burning jet fuel??? HAHHAHAHA That is a good one sort of. The fact is 22,000 gal's of jet fuel did not stop when it hit the building. It went to the other side of the building. The A/C was traveling 400+ miles an hour and parts wen clear thru the other side some fuel went out the hole in the other side but most poured down stairways and elevator shafts and splashed everything on the other die of the building. And yes it did get hot enough because people jumped out simple because jumping to your death was better than burning. All this was on either the history channel or discovery channel. They had the builder and engineer who designed it on. it was great. It showed what the heat did to the truss mounts and joints.

I really dislike conspiracy nuts who know nothing about what they talk about. Many of these groups are funded by foreign govenrments trying to inject mistrust into our minds. With all the whistle blowers and the inability to keep a secret wouldn't you think people would be all over this. HOG WASH that is all it is. This is the same nonsense that some people dont think we went to the moon. MUHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA


Brent you really dont believe this crap do you????
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Old 04-25-2006, 05:16 PM   #20
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Re: Physics gods: Step in and help me out here

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent
Any response to these two videos?
downloading now.... still working on the first one
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Old 04-25-2006, 05:22 PM   #21
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Re: Physics gods: Step in and help me out here

for the first one... you're watching a video conspiracy... thus, it can be skewed to express whatever view it wants... give me a chance to view it some more
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Old 04-25-2006, 08:21 PM   #22
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Re: Physics gods: Step in and help me out here

Brent, I have watched the first few then jumped to 9/10. i am about to go crazy, i have photos of the pit, i have 4 books from guys that worked the wtc. one i will scan in photos wed. but its called "strong of heart life and death in the fire department of new york thomas von essen. he was the FDNY commissioner. also i have one from Dennis smith , report from ground Zero.
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Old 04-25-2006, 08:39 PM   #23
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Re: Physics gods: Step in and help me out here

" Steel: Steel is the primary material used for structural support in modern building construction. Steel structural members elongate by as much as 4" when heated from room temperature to about 1,000*F. if the steel is restrained from movement at the ends, it buckles and fails somewhere in the middle. For all purposes, the failure of steel structural near or above 1,000*F. The temperature at which a specific steel member fails depends on many variables, including the size of the member, the load it is under, the composition of the steel, and the geometry of the member. For example, a lightweight, open -web truss will fail much quicker than a large heavy I beam. From a fire fighting perspective , firefighters shouldbe aware of the type of steel members used in a particular structure. Firefighters also need to determine how long the steel members have been exposed to heat; this gives an indication of when the members might fail. Another possibility for firefighters to consider is that elongationg steel can actually push out load-bearing walls and cause collapse." (page 70 IFSTA Essentials 4th edition of Fire Fighting)
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Old 04-25-2006, 08:46 PM   #24
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Re: Physics gods: Step in and help me out here

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danger Dude
Sure I can explain it. When the area where the fire was melted it did not do so uniformly one side went before the others and fell to the side. This is so simple. The floors that were on fire were incapable of hold up the building above it. When have you ever seen a anything fall perfectly even unless it is a controlled building demolition.


How did this women walk thru burning jet fuel??? HAHHAHAHA That is a good one sort of. The fact is 22,000 gal's of jet fuel did not stop when it hit the building. It went to the other side of the building. The A/C was traveling 400+ miles an hour and parts wen clear thru the other side some fuel went out the hole in the other side but most poured down stairways and elevator shafts and splashed everything on the other die of the building. And yes it did get hot enough because people jumped out simple because jumping to your death was better than burning. All this was on either the history channel or discovery channel. They had the builder and engineer who designed it on. it was great. It showed what the heat did to the truss mounts and joints.

I really dislike conspiracy nuts who know nothing about what they talk about. Many of these groups are funded by foreign govenrments trying to inject mistrust into our minds. With all the whistle blowers and the inability to keep a secret wouldn't you think people would be all over this. HOG WASH that is all it is. This is the same nonsense that some people dont think we went to the moon. MUHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA


Brent you really dont believe this crap do you????
No, I couldn't not debate on this because I do not know the science behine building buildings.... I just need to know the technical details from someone that knows. I do not believe 9/11 was part of a government conspiracy.
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Old 04-25-2006, 08:47 PM   #25
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Re: Physics gods: Step in and help me out here

I love conspiracy theories...

steel doesn't have to melt for it to fail. I forget what the temperatures are but it becomes weak above certain temperatures. At these temperatures for an extended period of time it won't continue to carry a load. Then you factor in the expansion at different rates of steel versus concrete.

of course there was a lot of dust, that's what happens when concrete is crushed, it disintegrates.
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Old 04-25-2006, 08:51 PM   #26
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Re: Physics gods: Step in and help me out here

Quote:
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I love conspiracy theories...

steel doesn't have to melt for it to fail. I forget what the temperatures are but it becomes weak above certain temperatures. At these temperatures for an extended period of time it won't continue to carry a load. Then you factor in the expansion at different rates of steel versus concrete.

of course there was a lot of dust, that's what happens when concrete is crushed, it disintegrates.
see my 2nd post. also at the WTC, the fire "proof" that protected the steel blew away on impact. leaving this steel to heat up from the fire, the super heated gases in the air.
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Old 04-25-2006, 08:56 PM   #27
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Re: Physics gods: Step in and help me out here

Why the WTC Building Collapsed good read.
World Trade Center Disaster << ground zero photos
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Old 04-25-2006, 09:30 PM   #28
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Re: Physics gods: Step in and help me out here

I should sit down and figure out how much steel expands when heated to 1500 degrees, and compare that to the loss of strength.
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Old 04-25-2006, 09:46 PM   #29
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Re: Physics gods: Step in and help me out here

Quote:
Originally Posted by whipster24
I should sit down and figure out how much steel expands when heated to 1500 degrees, and compare that to the loss of strength.
hahaha have fun, I just put the wet stuff on the red stuff
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Old 04-25-2006, 09:47 PM   #30
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Re: Physics gods: Step in and help me out here

Quote:
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I should sit down and figure out how much steel expands when heated to 1500 degrees, and compare that to the loss of strength.
Do it
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