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Old 03-21-2010, 10:02 PM   #1
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...and it passes

I know we try to keep serious political discussion off the site for various reasons, but this decision will have some serious ramifications. I hope this all works and I hope it will save me part of the $750 we pay a month for health care.

This is a historical day and a historical decision. The current Presidency has been full of historical days and decisions, now if we can see historically positive consequences.
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Old 03-22-2010, 01:33 AM   #2
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Re: ...and it passes

Disclaimer: I understand original poster is objective. This is for everyone else that is about to reply to this that isn't.

The main complaints about providing health care to Americas are: Cost and constitutionality. Now I start......

Going to war with Iraq did have serious ramifications for this country. No Republican seemed to give a **** about that though. Everyone that opposed the war was just a left wing nut job hippie.

Now everyone that supports health care is a communist or socialist, whichever you want to roll with.

At the end of the day, we have money going to help this country that the Republicans oppose. Yet Republicans supported money to go toward destroying a country and rebuilding it. Like billions of dollars (the current bill is asking for less than one billion dollars).

I'm not supporting Democrats in health care but I'd rather see my tax payer money be spent saving lives in America than destroying them overseas.

Sadly, most of the Republicans crying about healthcare still support the war in Iraq and just for the record, not supporting a war does not equal not supporting the people fighting there. There are few things that piss me off more than someone that equates not supporting a war to not supporting the people fighting it.

At the end of the day all these dumb Americans walk into a polling booth and vote for a dumbass that doesn't do this country any good. Every 4 years for a President. They do it even more frequently on a local level.

I almost want Republicans to win again so I can stop seeing all the dumb rednecks and all of the jesus freaks in Alabama crying about Obama.
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Old 03-22-2010, 08:25 AM   #3
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Re: ...and it passes

As with anything government related it will do some good, and of course bad....
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Old 03-22-2010, 09:34 AM   #4
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Re: ...and it passes

I don't mind the bill as long as you take out the part where illegals get coverage, those that don't contribute to society and just waiting for their monthly check get coverage, and that I HAVE to buy coverage or face a fine.

I do like the fact that it is removing the ability of private companies from dropping or denying you service for pre-existing conditions. However, that's about as far as my support goes.

I think they would have been better served to start small and build up. Start with something that does away with pre-existing condition clauses, penalizes people for frivolous law suits against doctors/pharma, and then offers assistance for families making under a certain amount to obtain insurance. This does not include the useless parasites on welfare...you only get access to the subsidy if you have a job.

I think that would have been a good start. 2200+ pages of goofiness was a bit overkill. But, I really don't think this is going to survive. I know there are 37 states at last I heard/read that are going to bring this to bill to question with the supreme court. I'm not so sure the bill has enough legs to make it through the court due to forcing us to buy insurance or face penalty as well as stepping on the toes of state rights. It's going to be an interesting situation to say the least.
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:14 AM   #5
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Re: ...and it passes

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Originally Posted by Brent View Post
Disclaimer: I understand original poster is objective. This is for everyone else that is about to reply to this that isn't.
I promise I'm not as objective as you think. I have done alot of reading and researching on the current house bill that was voted on. There are several positives I see in the currently accepted version, but as with any political decision there are several issues.

Is it a step? Yes...is it a step in the right direction? This will depend on the final accepted version of the bill and the actual execution.

We pay a hell of alot of money to have the best health care possible. I don't want to be told what medication or tests we "need" as opposed to what will actually fix the problems.

I'm curious to see the final outcome of a "tax" on any business with over 50 employees that does not provide a health insurance option. If one of these employees uses government subsidaries to purchase using this public option the employer will be "tax"ed on each employee. I've seen two different numbers of $2000 or $750 per employee. Part-time employees are included in this count and "tax" by counting as 1/2 of a normal full-time employee.

I see more taxes on the rich (Starting in 2012, the Medicare Payroll Tax will be expanded to include unearned income. That will be a 3.8 percent tax on investment income for families making more than $250,000 per year ($200,000 for individuals), taxes on those that pay well for good coverage (Beginning in 2018, insurance companies will pay a 40 percent excise tax on so-called "Cadillac" high-end insurance plans worth over $27,500 for families ($10,200 for individuals), and taxes on small businesses (10 percent excise tax on indoor tanning services).

Yes, I do understand the effect of this on the bottom line as far as reducing the national deficit. I also understand the reduction will come at the expense of the upper middle class.

Just a few of the positives I see are making insurance companies extend benefits to people with preexisting conditions and allowing children to stay on their parent's plans until they are 27.

The part that really bothers me is this:

Individuals and families who make between 100 percent - 400 percent of the Federal Poverty Level (FPL) and want to purchase their own health insurance on an exchange are eligible for subsidies. They cannot be eligible for Medicare, Medicaid and cannot be covered by an employer. Eligible buyers receive premium credits and there is a cap for how much they have to contribute to their premiums on a sliding scale.

So basically what this says is someone who is working yet falls within 400% of the federal poverty level and has an option of health care through their employer will receive no help in the form of subsidaries but will still be required to have health insurance for all members of their family. With what was stated above about how companies will be required to offer a health option this will lead to millions that will not be able to afford health insurance and will be fined by the government for something outside their control. Yet, if the same people had no job they would be able to get health care at little or no costs. What sense does this make?
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:17 AM   #6
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Re: ...and it passes

Also, if you require some sort of treatment and there are only X places or X machines or X somethings you need to get this... and its gov run healthcare.... guess what. You wait in line... or you get denied. I dont like this part of it.
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:51 AM   #7
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Re: ...and it passes

call me stupid but i stilld don't know exactly what is going on
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:54 AM   #8
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Re: ...and it passes

Neither do half the people that voted for it...

Here are some key points of the health care plan...

Key points in the health-care overhaul bill
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:55 AM   #9
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Re: ...and it passes

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Neither do half the people that voted for it...

Here are some key points of the health care plan...

Key points in the health-care overhaul bill
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Old 03-22-2010, 01:18 PM   #10
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Re: ...and it passes

thats the problem! half of the people who vote don't know what the hell they are voting for and we get stuck with this kind of stupidity. I hate to say it, but it is mostly focused at the young people who turn 18 and say "Yay i get to vote now!" and go vote just to say they did so and have no clue what they are voting for. Let alone do they have enough knowledge to decifer what everything means.

Yes, i fall in the age group being 21 so i can vouche that not all of the younger generation is at fault... I admit to not knowing everything about our government or certain things that fall into the hands of voters. BUT i only vote for things that i have researched and have a strong opinion about. When it came time to vote for President, I did my research on our candidates before voting. I didn't vote because of my party, my race, or popularity. Same as this health care plan, i did my research and can take a strong stand AGAINST it.

Yes, this bill bothers me.. very much.. however what bothers me most is our misinformed (or shall i say uninformed) voters who get a chance to make a change that they know nothing about. IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE VOTING FOR, DON'T VOTE!!

It's time that Americans wake the hell up and do some research before all of the founding principles of our country get shot to hell. When my 87 year old grandfather has to wait to get medical attention when he is in no condition to wait for it, the stupid asses who put this bill into action won't give a damn. And neither will the "poor" idiots who don't know what work is! You can go anywhere and see a sign that says Now Hiring. I know disabled ppl who are working. May not be a fun job, but if a disabled person can get out of bed in the morning and go to work to make money, these lazy 'useless parasites' as Rob called them (good words!) can too!
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Old 03-22-2010, 01:58 PM   #11
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Re: ...and it passes

Its about being elected again, not about whats best for the people. Sometimes I think getting government OUT of our business and let people manage it on our own would be best.
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Old 03-22-2010, 01:59 PM   #12
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Re: ...and it passes

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Its about being elected again, not about whats best for the people. Sometimes I think getting government OUT of our business and let people manage it on our own would be best.
i totally agree with you on that one!
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Old 03-22-2010, 02:22 PM   #13
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Re: ...and it passes

I am not that up on the specifics of the bill, but I am also confused (normal).
In Louisiana we have a Charity Hospital system that anyone can go to and get free to low cost care. I know it is not the greatest care. Up until recently I thought that was how others states handled it. I did not know that LA was the only state to have this.
It would seem like this state will now be taxed twice once this get passed. We will still have the state charity system I guess and also the Fed system.

From a personal point of view if I could get decent free health care I might be able to retire early. Then I could just cruise around the country. Paying for health care is just to much for me to retire now.
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Old 03-22-2010, 03:42 PM   #14
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Re: ...and it passes

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Originally Posted by lowflyn View Post
I promise I'm not as objective as you think.
I meant objective in the fact that you research your points and realize that this country has more problems than just Democrats.

Nice to see some good arguments in here. I'll respond to a few of them when I get more time.
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Old 03-22-2010, 04:28 PM   #15
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Re: ...and it passes

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thats the problem! half of the people who vote don't know what the hell they are voting for and we get stuck with this kind of stupidity. I hate to say it, but it is mostly focused at the young people who turn 18 and say "Yay i get to vote now!" and go vote just to say they did so and have no clue what they are voting for. Let alone do they have enough knowledge to decifer what everything means.

Yes, i fall in the age group being 21 so i can vouche that not all of the younger generation is at fault... I admit to not knowing everything about our government or certain things that fall into the hands of voters. BUT i only vote for things that i have researched and have a strong opinion about. When it came time to vote for President, I did my research on our candidates before voting. I didn't vote because of my party, my race, or popularity. Same as this health care plan, i did my research and can take a strong stand AGAINST it.

Yes, this bill bothers me.. very much.. however what bothers me most is our misinformed (or shall i say uninformed) voters who get a chance to make a change that they know nothing about. IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE VOTING FOR, DON'T VOTE!!

It's time that Americans wake the hell up and do some research before all of the founding principles of our country get shot to hell. When my 87 year old grandfather has to wait to get medical attention when he is in no condition to wait for it, the stupid asses who put this bill into action won't give a damn. And neither will the "poor" idiots who don't know what work is! You can go anywhere and see a sign that says Now Hiring. I know disabled ppl who are working. May not be a fun job, but if a disabled person can get out of bed in the morning and go to work to make money, these lazy 'useless parasites' as Rob called them (good words!) can too!
just so you know i didn't just turn 18 and i didn't vote
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Old 03-22-2010, 04:54 PM   #16
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Re: ...and it passes

this should have been voted on by the american people, being that is who it is going to affect.

A simple problem that I have with the bill, well one of many is that the house and congress voted for us to have this new health plan, and they don't have to use it. they have their own special plan. If it's good enough for me. Than it's good enough for them.
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Old 03-22-2010, 05:10 PM   #17
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Re: ...and it passes

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this should have been voted on by the american people, being that is who it is going to affect.

A simple problem that I have with the bill, well one of many is that the house and congress voted for us to have this new health plan, and they don't have to use it. they have their own special plan. If it's good enough for me. Than it's good enough for them.
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GOVERNMENT-RUN PLAN: No government-run insurance plan. People purchasing coverage through the new insurance exchanges would have the option of signing up for national plans overseen by the federal office that manages the health plans available to members of Congress. Those plans would be private, but one would have to be nonprofit.
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Old 03-22-2010, 09:21 PM   #18
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Re: ...and it passes

Really, all this boils down to is our government is broken. I no longer feel represented at all... and I don't think I am the only one that feels that way. The last time that happened in this country, oh, say, 230 years ago give or take, drastic measures were taken. Now I am not saying we need to go that drastic, but the government needs an enema. I am not just saying this because of the healthcare bill, I have been feeling this for a while now.
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:12 PM   #19
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Re: ...and it passes

I agree. People are calling for voting out everyone that voted for it. Well, I think we need a complete flush and refill complete with term limits and a message that if you don't represent the people, you're gone.
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Old 03-23-2010, 06:57 AM   #20
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Re: ...and it passes

Wow, kudos to MustangEvolution. This may be the only forum on the internet that is actually have an intelligent conversation on this.

I don't even know what to think anymore. I was iffy about this bill, mostly because I felt it was a half assed plan in efforts to compromise. All I kept thinking was I bet this is riddled with loopholes. But I digress, we should see how it will turn out. It would have been nice if both parties could sit down and actually produce something of quality than play politics.

As a moderate, I'm completely dumbfounded by Washington's current state. I am skeptical of the left's fiscal responsibility. They are fighting a good fight, but at what cost? Literally. And I'm completely put off by the right's inability to do anything whenever big business is pulling the rug out from the American people AND Washington itself - the bank bailout. Need I say more? Washington is seeming like smoke and mirrors and the true masters of our country walked out with bags full of OUR tax money.

Big business will trample this country and its constitution. Free market and capitalism works, but only if its ideal conditions. Unfortunately, things naturally gravitate to monopolies and oligopolies. Once that happens, the consumer no longer has a voice.

If you let big business become powerful enough, they will overthrow democracy. IF that hasn't happened already.
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Old 03-23-2010, 01:38 PM   #21
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Re: ...and it passes

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I hope this all works and I hope it will save me part of the $750 we pay a month for health care.
This is just a spur of the moment idea that popped into my head with 0 research gone into it, so its probably full of holes, but not having health insurance could save you money. Say, its 2014 and health insurance is mandatory and the annual fine for not carrying it is $750 and its illegal to deny someone coverage based on a preexisting condition.

You pay your fine, then you get a kidney stone, you pick up some high-risk insurance, pay the premium, have your stone blasted with a laser, pee out the pieces, drop your insurance and pay your fine again next year. You go another 10 years just paying the fine before you have another health issue and you could save some money in the long run.

I doubt you could get around it that way, and I would imagine that there is something in the law keeping people for skirting health care costs like this, but our politicians are known to overlook stupid **** from time to time.

I am curious to see how the states try to block it and what happens. It seems like a gross majority of states are going to try to do something to block it. I doubt people are going to pull out their guns and storm Washington, but the civil war was started over state's rights, so the political arena could get very interesting.
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Old 03-23-2010, 01:53 PM   #22
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Re: ...and it passes

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I agree. People are calling for voting out everyone that voted for it. Well, I think we need a complete flush and refill complete with term limits and a message that if you don't represent the people, you're gone.
Well Said !!!! IMHO This bill is a step in the right direction. It's not perfect and will take quite a bit of fine tuning. Unfortunately Big Insurance co. will do all they can to confuse the minds of the general public Who for whatever reason can't take a hour of the time to research the bill
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Old 03-23-2010, 06:08 PM   #23
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Re: ...and it passes

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This is just a spur of the moment idea that popped into my head with 0 research gone into it, so its probably full of holes, but not having health insurance could save you money. Say, its 2014 and health insurance is mandatory and the annual fine for not carrying it is $750 and its illegal to deny someone coverage based on a preexisting condition.

You pay your fine, then you get a kidney stone, you pick up some high-risk insurance, pay the premium, have your stone blasted with a laser, pee out the pieces, drop your insurance and pay your fine again next year. You go another 10 years just paying the fine before you have another health issue and you could save some money in the long run.

Our problem is we HAVE to have it... I'm a heart patient, constant health issues, and my medicines are absolutely sky high without the insurance. As expensive as ours is, sadly, it actually is saving us a bit with all the tests and crap I have to have done each year. The penalty payment once a year would be cheaper at once, but since I'm always needing something done and the costs are high, we just keep the insurance his work 'provides' instead of paying those high costs out of pocket each month I go in for checkups, which in turn, would definitely end up costing way more than $750 a year.



That's why we're praying that the 2014 'no denial upon existing conditions' clause is worth it for us when it kicks in. **** just keeps getting too expensive.
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Old 03-24-2010, 01:17 AM   #24
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Re: ...and it passes

See you are a perfect example of why I am so pissed off with how Republicans have handled healthcare. They just shrug it off like there isn't a problem.

They are so quick to go to the war to protect America from terrorist but want nothing to do with making sure Americans are protected here at home with Healthcare.

There is so much hate on the right with healthcare and they just continue to ignore it.
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Old 03-24-2010, 07:41 AM   #25
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Re: ...and it passes

Since I was 18 I have had insurance. Why do I need the govt. to step in for health ins. Isn't my job to pay for it if I want it. I know people that choose not to pay for health ins. Yes I will say over the years the rates have gone up, but hasn't everything else. Why do I have to pay for someone's health care that does not choose to pay for ins.?
If you don't have a job or have low income don't we have Medicare or Medicaid (don't know which is which).
My confusion is why do we need this. As I have said earlier Louisiana may be different from other states because we already have a State run health care system.
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Old 03-24-2010, 08:16 AM   #26
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Re: ...and it passes

when there is no competition or regulation rates go up sky high since thats what it takes to cover it (and make CEO's millionaires)
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