Cobra or Shelby - Mustang Evolution

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View Poll Results: Whitch would you rather have
03/04 Cobra 10 52.63%
2007 Shelby GT500 9 47.37%
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Old 07-26-2006, 12:53 AM   #1
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Cobra or Shelby

What would you rather have, a 03/04 Cobra, or a 2007 Shelby GT500.

I think I would rather have a 03/04 Cobra.
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Old 07-26-2006, 01:03 AM   #2
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

I would take the Shelby for the better platform and after the obligatory bolt on's, do some big time cosmetic stuff, since they don't look that great.

Oh and some weight reduction that wont be visually noticed.
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Old 07-26-2006, 01:04 AM   #3
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

i would take the shelby and resell it for 234000k over sticker cause i know there is a dumbass out there that would pay that
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Old 07-26-2006, 01:09 AM   #4
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

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i would take the shelby and resell it for 234000k over sticker cause i know there is a dumbass out there that would pay that
Damn right.
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Old 07-26-2006, 01:16 AM   #5
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

Shelby
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Old 07-26-2006, 01:20 AM   #6
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

03/04. As I have stated many times...I am very disappointed in the SUV offering that is called the Shelby. The only good part about it is the engine...beyond that...boring.

NYC Version...I go Shelby all the way. Current version...puke.
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Old 07-26-2006, 01:29 AM   #7
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

03/04.

Retro is gay(save for when companies do it right, aka Challenger). the GT500 isnt even a GT500, its just a "rebadged by Shelby" 07 SVT Cobra. the only reason shelby is in on it is cause 1) ford wanted him to make every one look like eleanor, and 2) ford thinks using shelby because its a retro stang will get more sales.

anyone who wants a GT500 to use it for what it was designed for will never get one, or will have to settle for abused hand me downs. only first owners will be those that, just like the original shelby gt500's, use them once a weekend once a month and got them just so 40 years from now they can sell em for 200k on Barret/Jackson. im sorry, cars are meant to be driven(unless its a DSM or my Mustang, in which case its broken or back in the paint booth)

get the 03/04 and do some boltons and learn to drive well, and you can go GT500 hunting and make all the old geezers cry when they wasted 80k on a car that can get decimated by a 25k one.
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Old 07-26-2006, 01:32 AM   #8
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

Quote:
Originally Posted by EclipseGSTdude View Post
03/04.

Retro is gay(save for when companies do it right, aka Challenger). the GT500 isnt even a GT500, its just a "rebadged by Shelby" 07 SVT Cobra. the only reason shelby is in on it is cause 1) ford wanted him to make every one look like eleanor, and 2) ford thinks using shelby because its a retro stang will get more sales.

anyone who wants a GT500 to use it for what it was designed for will never get one, or will have to settle for abused hand me downs. only first owners will be those that, just like the original shelby gt500's, use them once a weekend once a month and got them just so 40 years from now they can sell em for 200k on Barret/Jackson. im sorry, cars are meant to be driven(unless its a DSM or my Mustang, in which case its broken or back in the paint booth)

get the 03/04 and do some boltons and learn to drive well, and you can go GT500 hunting and make all the old geezers cry when they wasted 80k on a car that can get decimated by a 25k one.
Preach on brotha....

And definitely +1 on the last part...I very much look forward to my first encounter with a "more money than brains" first owner thinking they own the road now.
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Old 07-26-2006, 01:37 AM   #9
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

I think the Shelby should be called simply, The `07 Cobra from now on.
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Old 07-26-2006, 01:44 AM   #10
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

nah i think thats defacing the cobra name. if SVT did the exterior/trim, itd look light years better than a slightly modified GT front, some small skirts, a racing stripe and some boring wheels that look just like the ones off a SRT4.
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Old 07-26-2006, 02:29 AM   #11
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

Shelby + whipple = Sex
so shelbey.
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Old 07-26-2006, 08:08 AM   #12
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

id take rob's 03 cobra over any 07 shelby.

rob, post a vid of your 1/4 mile, put shelby badges on your car, then 2 racing stripes and sell it saying it was the concept.... i guarantee you someone on ebay will buy it. sell it for the price of a gt500.

its rediculous........there was so much hype, then you see this guy blow a "legend" down 6 feet under. There is nothing special about that car... whoopty doo, leather interior or leather dash. how many times you sit there and caress your dash? never. ****, you can buy a turbo'd powerstroke f250... and blow a gt500 away...

Ford should have just tried to make an ubar excursion for that matter...


sickening.... just plain sickening. Eleanor is more of a **** than i thought.
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Old 07-26-2006, 10:28 AM   #13
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

Cobra
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Old 07-26-2006, 10:42 AM   #14
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

Who cares what the thing's callled... when you have a car with 500hp from the factory, thats what people like. Its not just the fact that Shelby GT500 is on it, that just makes it more expensive. 500hp is 500hp, whether its called a cobra, shelby, little princess, or tornado... its still going to sell.

Ill take the shelby
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Old 07-26-2006, 10:46 AM   #15
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zim View Post
Who cares what the thing's callled... when you have a car with 500hp from the factory, thats what people like. Its not just the fact that Shelby GT500 is on it, that just makes it more expensive. 500hp is 500hp, whether its called a cobra, shelby, little princess, or tornado... its still going to sell.

Ill take the shelby
+1 for dat!
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Old 07-26-2006, 10:48 AM   #16
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

Depends on what I'm going to do with it. If I'm planning on throwing parts at it and turning it into a drag car, give me the '03-'04 Cobra. If I'm looking for a powerful, good-looking daily or weekend driver that will see limited/no track time, I'd pick up the Shelby.
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Old 07-26-2006, 10:52 AM   #17
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

Not to mention you act like these things are giong to be made in very limited production. Ford made over 20k Terminators... I dont think those things will ever be a "rare" car in anyones eye. The shelby's most likely going to be the same way. You people that keep throwing the fact that its going to cost so much forget the basic economics of things. Supply and Demand. When theres a short supply, and high demand, obviously theres going to be people that arent going to care about the price, because they want their car now and their time value of money is the fact that they'll pay 20-30k over sticker to have the car NOW rather than waiting a year and getting it at sticker price. Its not as if EVERYONE that wants a gt500 is going to go pay 60k+ for one. Theres the few that can, and will... it seems like you haters of the gt500 think its going to sell for 60k+ for the rest of its existance. Well, its not, and then someone in their $40k dollar car with 500hp from the factory and 2k worth of mods making over 750hp can have what they've wanted... A badass car at an affordable price.

Quit comparing "terminator this, terminator that"... seems as if terminator owners got their panties in a wad because now they're not the "Top dog" of factory mustangs. I havnt seen ONE terminator owner on this site that went out and snatched up their car right as they were coming out.. hell, 2007 models are coming out and you guys just picked up your '03's... see a trend here?
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Old 07-26-2006, 10:53 AM   #18
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

I don't think I would buy a car that was named "Princess".....
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Old 07-26-2006, 10:56 AM   #19
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

Quote:
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I don't think I would buy a car that was named "Princess".....
I was proving a point smartass.
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Old 07-26-2006, 10:57 AM   #20
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

:no:
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Old 07-26-2006, 11:04 AM   #21
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

Quote:
Originally Posted by EclipseGSTdude View Post

anyone who wants a GT500 to use it for what it was designed for will never get one, or will have to settle for abused hand me downs.

Whats that say about you waiting for a GT? Why didnt you go out and buy a brand new one? Guess you got the abused hand me down didnt ya?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EclipseGSTdude
get the 03/04 and do some boltons and learn to drive well, and you can go GT500 hunting and make all the old geezers cry when they wasted 80k on a car that can get decimated by a 25k one.
Well, I guess with that reasoning, my 12 year old car that cost me 8k dollars would be the perfect thing to go hunt down your newer GT and laugh while I "decimate" your car that cost twice as much..



Keep on hatin...
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Old 07-26-2006, 11:17 AM   #22
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

[QUOTE=Zim;325186]Whats that say about you waiting for a GT? Why didnt you go out and buy a brand new one? Guess you got the abused hand me down didnt ya? [/zim]

i waited for a GT? i kinda remember just going out and buying one on pretty much a whim, so i could have a nice powerful DD, get out from under FWD, and build up a 1g(still havent found one even worth spending 1500 on, though i might be close if my buddy sells his)



[QUOTE=Zim;325186Well, I guess with that reasoning, my 12 year old car that cost me 8k dollars would be the perfect thing to go hunt down your newer GT and laugh while I "decimate" your car that cost twice as much..

Keep on hatin...[/QUOTE]

i too can play that game with a 1g awd with 4k invested (Car+mods) on a 15 year old car, and i just decimated your car with half invested as well.

then you can buy a used bike for like 2k then decimate me. its all relative.
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Old 07-26-2006, 11:19 AM   #23
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

I would buy a Moped and take all of you down. Even the Cobra!

USED NO LESS!!
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Old 07-26-2006, 11:20 AM   #24
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

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I would buy a Moped and take all of you down. Even the Cobra!

USED NO LESS!!
dayum. i feel abused right now.
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Old 07-26-2006, 11:23 AM   #25
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

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Originally Posted by EclipseGSTdude View Post
dayum. i feel abused right now.
First, figure out to use the quote button... second, I didnt put 4k in mods on my car, I bought it AS IS minus suspension, wheels, and shifter for 8k. How much did you buy yours for AS IS?

You're right... it is relative, but im comparing a car to a car, not a bike to a car, so we're still on the same page with that one.

The point is, people like the car for reasons that you might not understand. You might not like the body style, but other people do... just cause you dont like the car doesnt mean every other person on this planet is going to agree with why you dont, and just not buy the car. People love this car, it gets praises every day from every major magazine. The ONLY complaint Ive ever heard about this car performance wise is its weight, but if you want it as light as a z06 or soething like that, its going to have a sticker price of the z06 because of lightweight components.

The car is what it is, its not going to change and obviously you dont like it... but to some people its worth paying 20k over sticker price, just like you paid 16k for a car that can be found for 11-12k
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Old 07-26-2006, 11:46 AM   #26
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zim View Post
Quit comparing "terminator this, terminator that"... seems as if terminator owners got their panties in a wad because now they're not the "Top dog" of factory mustangs. I havnt seen ONE terminator owner on this site that went out and snatched up their car right as they were coming out.. hell, 2007 models are coming out and you guys just picked up your '03's... see a trend here?
My panties are not in a wad over this car. I will still be top dog to any non modded GT500. Within the next year, I will probably still be top dog to any non whipple/KB GT500s out there as well as those running low boost with a whipple or kb (not a likely event I know). I don't care if it is because I am modded and they are't...or are only slightly modded. The fact of the matter is, I am not in a wad because I know I will still be top dog to most of the GT500s out there because most of those with the money for the first runs will do nothing more than sit on them or putt around in them to car shows.

Overall, this car is just flat out lacking in everything except power. It has no appeal...not nothing. It would make a ton more sense to buy a loaded GT for say 30k...then spend 8k on a crate engine and $100 on some ugly *** vinyl stripes. There...you have a GT500 and didn't have to find a way of convincing yourself that 45k (assuming you didn't get raped) for a mustang was a good investment.

As for your last statement about no one on this site picked theirs up immediately...well...I did. Missed the first production run as the dealers in the area ran out of their allotment before I could order it. Ordered one of the first of the second run of 03s. Ordered August of 2002. Received May 2003 with 2 miles on the ticker. So, I did jump on the wagon immediately...and I didn't pay over sticker for it either even though other shops were still trying to get 50+k for them at the time.

The shelby...nothing more than an engine.
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Old 07-26-2006, 11:49 AM   #27
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

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The shelby...nothing more than an engine.
Thats nothing more than an opinion, and Ill put money on it that says if these guys are out to buy one of the first GT500 for 20k over sticker, then they're the ones that want it for what it can do, and it WILL NOT stay stock very long at all.

I said top dog of factory mustangs, meaning stock. Not top dog of modded mustangs vs stock factory mustangs.

If you want to compare a whippled 03/04 to a gt500, then put a whipple on that and watch numbers sore high high above what that terminators gonna make. Mod for mod, the gt500 will consistantly stay on top of an 03/04, theres no reason why it wouldnt.
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Old 07-26-2006, 12:22 PM   #28
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

Quote:
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First, figure out to use the quote button...
lol its kinda sad i just noticed we have like 3 quote buttons. dam newfangled technology.

i usually just quote the whole thing, then add the end quotes code/beginning quote code where needed manually.
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Old 07-26-2006, 12:26 PM   #29
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

arent they both 4.6L with basically the same engine setups(internals, head, etc)? whats different between the 03/04 setup and the GT500?

what boost do they run stock?

im gonna guess its basically the same engine as a 03/04, and unlike the cobras, shelby didnt have to detune it or run a larger pulley to please ford execs.
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Old 07-26-2006, 12:26 PM   #30
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

Hmm... id prefer a jeep. wait, I already have one... Ok, a Ram CTD
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Old 07-26-2006, 12:27 PM   #31
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

Quote:
Originally Posted by EclipseGSTdude View Post
arent they both 4.6L with basically the same engine setups(internals, head, etc)? whats different between the 03/04 setup and the GT500?

what boost do they run stock?

im gonna guess its basically the same engine as a 03/04, and unlike the cobras, shelby didnt have to detune it or run a larger pulley to please ford execs.
I believe the gt500 has a 5.4L s/c
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Old 07-26-2006, 12:36 PM   #32
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

Quote:
Originally Posted by EclipseGSTdude View Post
arent they both 4.6L with basically the same engine setups(internals, head, etc)? whats different between the 03/04 setup and the GT500?

what boost do they run stock?

im gonna guess its basically the same engine as a 03/04, and unlike the cobras, shelby didnt have to detune it or run a larger pulley to please ford execs.
yup, 5.4L motor... actually, its pretty much the FORD GT motor, with an iron block... lots of the same internals.
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Old 07-26-2006, 12:37 PM   #33
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

Quote:
Originally Posted by n8r View Post
I believe the gt500 has a 5.4L s/c
Yes, the GT500 is the 5.4L with a 122 eaton on top. The 03/04s were a 4.6L with a 112 Eaton on top.

It is basically the same setup as the lightnings with the exception I believe the GT500 is running the same heads as the Ford GT. The internals are not forged I don't believe, but something else (I forgot the term...cracked maybe???) where as the 03/04 was forged. Still strong, but are not being called forged.
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Old 07-26-2006, 12:42 PM   #34
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

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Hmm... id prefer a jeep. wait, I already have one... Ok, a Ram CTD
C'mon Nate. I resisted saying I'd rather have a Z06. If I can operate within the parameters of the question, I know you can.
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Old 07-26-2006, 12:44 PM   #35
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Re: Cobra or Shelby

Im pretty sure internals on the GT500 are forged, as they're nearly identical to the ford GT.

Heres some info from a Gt500 owner that has dyno'd his car with less than 300 miles on it. So much for putsing around to car show..


Quote:
Ladies and gents,

I'm an enthusiast, but not a purest. I have a hair over 250 miles on my car and I've done the dirty deed; I've made some modifications. First, let me start by saying: PLEASE NO FLAMES! I'm posting reality here folks, not what FORD might have told us. There, I said it and it was like therapy - on with the results.

Today, I worked with the folks from Strictly Performance here in Houston to swap out my gear. First thing, always, is a baseline dyno run. They have one of the more current models of the dynojet. Some folks think that the method utilized by this dyno tends to underate horsepower; regardless, the numbers are usually pretty close whether you use a dynojet, or a Mustang (another type of dyno). We pulled 3 runs in 4th (standard stuff) soon after I arrived at the shop. The relative humidity was high - about 87% (hey, this IS Houston), and the intake air temerature was running at a whopping 98.4 degrees. This kills some power, so I was expecting to see anywhere between 415 - 430 horses at the wheels. Keep in mind that stick shifts usually have a 15% parasitic loss in the drivetrain; add some serious heat to that and you lose a bit more. I saw the dyno thread that someone posted earlier. Many of your thoughts around 450 - 460 hp at the wheels are simply not realistic; but it sure would have been nice. The best of the 3 runs was as follows:

HP: 412.9 Torque: 409.2

These are good, but definitely NOT what I expected; even with the heat. However, one thing that immediately was obvious is that this puppy pulls like a mule right until the rev limiter kicks in and everthing shuts down (between 6,250 and 6,500 rpms). Given that at the higher RPM the engine was still increasing horsepower output, I felt that the 4.10 gearing I was planning on installing was going to make a difference. Basically, my thoughts were that the power/torque curve would shift to the left (steeper gears get you in the sweet spot of the rpm range sooner). I've enclosed some pictures of the install for your pondering.

BTW...while we were installing the gear, I felt it appropriate to change out the exhaust. The stock mufflers are simply too quiet for me! I want to HEAR the power. I chose the Flowmaster American Thunder 2-chambers for the job. I have them on my Terminator and love the way they sound; I have some pictures of the before and after from the rear of the car. I think it looks pretty sweet; and, of course, they sound amazing with the 5.4 liter!

After, the gear and exhaust install (which took a total of around 2 hours), it was back to the dyno. We only ran it twice, and the best run was...can I get the envelope....


HP: 446.5 Torque: 421.9

Now that's what I'm talking about! If you do the math, this equates to around 525 crank horsepower; 25 more than what this bad boy comes with. And folks there's more good news, the horsepower was still climbing!!!! Oh crap I could have pissed on myself, especially after I saw that the air intake temperature was at 104.2 degrees! It's amazing that we could pull those numbers, with that kind of heat. The only bad thing is we don't know which of the two modifications caused the spike in power because we did them both at the same time. I have a small video clip of the dyno run below; I'm standing in front of the car and you can hear my new exhaust sing to me. Robert, I may need help if it's too large for me to upload to my post.

For those of you that have your Shelby's, the gear change fixed the "problem" we've been experiencing with the little jiggy the car does coming out of first. I think it was simply a bog given the lower than needed gearing.

And now I have some general observations that you may find interesting now that I've inspected my car from top to bottom:

1.) Forger about changing the lower pulley to increase boost There is a nub on the water pump that's only a hair from the crank pulley. In my opinion, it's going to have to be machined in order to accomodate a larger crank pulley. The aftermarket may figure it out, but I just don't see a way around the nub. Of course, you could change the pulley, but the stocker is just barely big enough to clear the ribs on the supercharger snout; it's going to be nearly impossible to use a smaller blower pulley without changing the whole snout itself; which by the way will most likely set you back $800 - $1,000. With the terminators, swapping a blower pulley was a ten minute job using the extractor tool, and usually set you back $120 - $130 (includes buying the extractor tool). Again, someone may come up with a way, but I've worked on cars long enought to know it isn't a trivial matter.
2.) My speedometer will display higher than actual readings due to the gear change. This will go away as soon as my boys at Strictly get the algorithm template and we can begin to tweak the engine.
3.) The front fascia does indeed have the mountings for an aftermarket break cooling kit. I have a picture below of what the mounting extension looks like. All you'll have to do is punch out the pattern through the fascia and you'll be sucking fresh air in no time.
4.) If you change gears, you most likely will need a new pinion bearing. The stockers are on there like an SOB and we ended up breaking ours. No problem though, it's usually good practice to swap them out during any gear change. Other than that, the switch went smooth as butter.
5.) In my opinion, the mufflers are the real reason the car doesn't quite deliver straight off the showroom floor. Their big, heavy, and seem to be designed to reduce noise, not increase power. I have a picture of them outside the car. Besides, the flowmasters are coated black so they look much stealthier than these loud *** brass looking things.
6.) FORD has tuned the Shelby very nicely. The oxgen/fuel ratios never devidated between 11.8 and 12.4 all the way through the dyno pull. This is a very safe range; but I'd like to see it run just a bit leaner and see how the car responds.
7.) KILL THE CATS!!! As soon as we can begin calibrating the computer, the Cats are coming off. During the last dyno run I could tell the car was struggling to breathe in and especially out. The air filter assembly is hideous and a cold air kit will defintely do wonders. The Cats are just to damn big and holding back a lot of power.

I tried to capture everthing I could. If anyone has questions, just post a response and I'll help if I can. The bottom line is, these care are defintely going to push past the 600 hp mark. It's only a matter of a few months before that's exactly where I expect to be. Until next time...this is the Geek signing off.
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