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Old 08-02-2006, 12:36 PM   #1
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Rethinking the war on terror:

We must rethink the War on Terror - Blair - World - Times Online

What do you think? Does the strategy of the war on terror need to be rethought?
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Old 08-02-2006, 12:50 PM   #2
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

sure it does.

A couple nukes ought to do the trick.
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Old 08-02-2006, 12:58 PM   #3
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

Yes...the worry about civilians needs to be halted. The losers hide behind the civilians. We need to just go get who we are after. Either 1.) get out of the way, 2.) give up the terrorists yourself, or 3.) you will be in harms way. We are tip toeing way too much.
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Old 08-02-2006, 01:06 PM   #4
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

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Yes...the worry about civilians needs to be halted. The losers hide behind the civilians. We need to just go get who we are after. Either 1.) get out of the way, 2.) give up the terrorists yourself, or 3.) you will be in harms way. We are tip toeing way too much.
DING DING! We have a winner
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Old 08-02-2006, 03:50 PM   #5
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

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DING DING! We have a winner
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Old 08-02-2006, 04:00 PM   #6
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

That's the biggest thing, if we start giving a flying donkey turd about the collateral damage, the governments and individual citizens will star handing them over themselves.
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Old 08-02-2006, 05:35 PM   #7
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

hehe, he said flying donkey turd hehe
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Old 08-02-2006, 07:32 PM   #8
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

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That's the biggest thing, if we start giving a flying donkey turd about the collateral damage, the governments and individual citizens will star handing them over themselves.
Doesn't seem like that's started happening in Lebanon...
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Old 08-02-2006, 08:19 PM   #9
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

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Doesn't seem like that's started happening in Lebanon...
But Israel has said and practiced non-aggression against Lebanese citizens.
Bad example ch*vy boy
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Old 08-02-2006, 08:24 PM   #10
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

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But Israel has said and practiced non-aggression against Lebanese citizens.
Bad example ch*vy boy
Dropping bombs all over the southern part of the country is non-agression?
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Old 08-02-2006, 09:02 PM   #11
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

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Dropping bombs all over the southern part of the country is non-agression?
when hezzbollah hides behind civiliians and launches attacks from neighborhoods, what the hell is isreal to do? BTW did anyone see where hbizzle had a base set up in a HOSPITAL!! WTF. IDF rolled up in a helo, when in and captured 5 and killed 3 of them *****es.
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Old 08-02-2006, 09:13 PM   #12
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

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when hezzbollah hides behind civiliians and launches attacks from neighborhoods, what the hell is isreal to do?
I'm not saying that I blame them. If there are people sitting there launching rockets with kids strapped to the launchers...well...sorry kids, sux to be you.

In the short term, this offensive will stop the incessant rain of rockets on northern Israel. In the long term, however, I don't see this offensive changing anything at all. I don't believe that Islamic extremism can be eliminated, or contained even, by repeated acts of violence. If you went in and set up shop like Hitler, systematically destroying them...maybe.
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Old 08-02-2006, 09:47 PM   #13
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

The Middle East has not and never will EVER tolerate a Jewish nation. As far as the civilians are concerned the Hezbos are fighting for the same stuff a lot of them believe without having to make themselves look like the bad guys. Trust me, once enough hospitals are destroyed and orphanages burned, the Hezbos will start backing up and things will quiet back down (for a bit).

Perfect example of this:
Hiroshima
Nagasaki

We said **** you civilians and killed thousands in seconds and damaged thousands of others. Those places will not be habitable again for hundreds of years. But you know what? The war ended didn't it? Japanese culture is such that, it is more honorable to committ suicide rather than to be bested by an opponent. It was going to take something so cataclysmic and destructive to bring them to their knees and, ultimatley, save the lives of more of our soldiers and probably their's too than what were sacrificed.

If the Lebanese back down to the Isrealis, they will be humiliated and ashamed because of other countries and organizations that hate Israel as well as their own pride and hatred for the Jews. It will take a lot of death to make these people realize that they need to shut the **** up and sit down.
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Old 08-02-2006, 09:47 PM   #14
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

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Originally Posted by MarkuzLS1 View Post
Dropping bombs all over the southern part of the country is non-agression?
I'm saying I saw a report where they warned teh locals to leave so they could get the
hez-bollah yackoffs out of there. Seems they are worried about civvies still,
Quote:
Smurfin: Yes...the worry about civilians needs to be halted. The losers hide behind the civilians. We need to just go get who we are after. Either 1.) get out of the way, 2.) give up the terrorists yourself, or 3.) you will be in harms way. We are tip toeing way too much.
I was saying it in that context. Apparently you were in a diferent context Makuz
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Old 08-02-2006, 09:52 PM   #15
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

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Originally Posted by DarkShadow View Post
Those places will not be habitable again for hundreds of years.
That's not true. There are thriving metropoli there, now.
Hiroshima:


Nagasaki:
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Old 08-02-2006, 09:55 PM   #16
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

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That's not true. There are thriving metropoli there, now.
:worship: Hmm. I stand corrected on that part. How is that possible with all the fallout and radioactive "lingering". Was there a clean up project or something?
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Old 08-02-2006, 09:56 PM   #17
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

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Originally Posted by DarkShadow View Post
If the Lebanese back down to the Isrealis, they will be humiliated and ashamed because of other countries and organizations that hate Israel as well as their own pride and hatred for the Jews. It will take a lot of death to make these people realize that they need to shut the **** up and sit down.
As long as it's just tit-for-tatting, they won't ever sit down. They go blow themselves up in Israeli markets or fire rockets at Israel. Israel flys over and blows up a pile of ****. That pisses people off and somebody fires a rocket or blows themself up in a coffee shop. Israel flys over and blows up some more buildings. That pisses somebody off and they go blow themselves up in an Israeli bus. Israel flys over and drops bombs on suspected Hezbolah headquarters. That pisses somebody off...

This is the cycle of violence. It can continue forever.
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Old 08-02-2006, 10:00 PM   #18
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

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:worship: Hmm. I stand corrected on that part. How is that possible with all the fallout and radioactive "lingering". Was there a clean up project or something?
I think you're grossly overestimating the amount of radioactive fallout released by a single atomic detonation. There have been alot more nukes detonated above ground here in the United States than there ever were in Japan. I'll have to hunt down the numbers of tests...
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Old 08-02-2006, 10:02 PM   #19
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

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Originally Posted by MarkuzLS1 View Post
As long as it's just tit-for-tatting, they won't ever sit down. They go blow themselves up in Israeli markets or fire rockets at Israel. Israel flys over and blows up a pile of ****. That pisses people off and somebody fires a rocket or blows themself up in a coffee shop. Israel flys over and blows up some more buildings. That pisses somebody off and they go blow themselves up in an Israeli bus. Israel flys over and drops bombs on suspected Hezbolah headquarters. That pisses somebody off...

This is the cycle of violence. It can continue forever.
That's why one of the sides is going to have to give it up and go all out on the other.

That's not going to happen with the PC world we ahve today. This is also why things like the Vietnam debacle occurred. More and more we are seeing these nice little deadlocks between waring factions that gets no where and just keeps taking more lives.

Today, if we dropped "The Bomb" on anyone, we would probably have to turn our country over to the UN for Martial control and governing until we could prove we can place nice with others.
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Old 08-02-2006, 10:03 PM   #20
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

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Originally Posted by MarkuzLS1 View Post
I think you're grossly overestimating the amount of radioactive fallout released by a single atomic detonation. There have been alot more nukes detonated above ground here in the United States than there ever were in Japan. I'll have to hunt down the numbers of tests...
Ok, I was thinking of a situation like Chernobyl. But that would have a lot more radioactive fallout than the A bomb did.
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Old 08-02-2006, 10:09 PM   #21
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

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Ok, I was thinking of a situation like Chernobyl. But that would have a lot more radioactive fallout than the A bomb did.
Yeah, Chernobyl spewed some of the nastiest **** imaginable into the air for days. Horrible stuff with extremely long half-lifes.
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Old 08-02-2006, 11:52 PM   #22
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

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Originally Posted by DarkShadow View Post
Perfect example of this:
Hiroshima
Nagasaki

We said **** you civilians and killed thousands in seconds and damaged thousands of others. Those places will not be habitable again for hundreds of years. But you know what? The war ended didn't it? Japanese culture is such that, it is more honorable to committ suicide rather than to be bested by an opponent. It was going to take something so cataclysmic and destructive to bring them to their knees and, ultimatley, save the lives of more of our soldiers and probably their's too than what were sacrificed.
not true. we dropped leaflets for months which stated we would be using atomic weapons on these cities listed, and that if you do not wish to lose your life, to go to a city that is not on the list. of course wartime propoganda they probably though we were just bluffing to mess up their economy.

as for terrorists hiding behind civilians

its not like theyre holding them hostage. most videos seen of terrorist fighting beside civilians, its like the civilians are too stupid to get the **** out of the way. they just stand there while the guy 5 feet next to him wearing all black shroud fires a AK47. umm dude, walk away. its only common sense in that region, where theres one guy crouched behind cover, theres a likelyhood theres another guy shooting at him as well.

i say its not civilian casualties when theyre too stupid to walk/run for cover. nobody is holding a knife to them to stay where they are(at least i havent seen any of it).
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Old 08-02-2006, 11:55 PM   #23
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

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Today, if we dropped "The Bomb" on anyone, we would probably have to turn our country over to the UN for Martial control and governing until we could prove we can place nice with others.
haha, the UN cant control 3rd world dictatorships, you really think they can have Martial Law of the greatest country in the world.

over my dead body, and ill take that **** to the grave. ill die before i let someone other than those born and raised in the US have control of it. and that, my friends, is patriotism.
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Old 08-03-2006, 12:05 AM   #24
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

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haha, the UN cant control 3rd world dictatorships, you really think they can have Martial Law of the greatest country in the world.

over my dead body, and ill take that **** to the grave. ill die before i let someone other than those born and raised in the US have control of it. and that, my friends, is patriotism.
I agree. But we would probably be faced with a true world war with us on a side by ourselves.
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Old 08-03-2006, 12:08 AM   #25
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

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not true. we dropped leaflets for months which stated we would be using atomic weapons on these cities listed, and that if you do not wish to lose your life, to go to a city that is not on the list. of course wartime propoganda they probably though we were just bluffing to mess up their economy.
And it also took the threat of another bomb being dropped on Tokyo itself before the government finally gave up. We had already dropped 2 and they figured "hell we know they'll keep doing it". The interesting thing though was that we only had those 2 bombs at the time. If Japan had not surrendered when they did, it would have been months before we had another bomb to drop.
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Old 08-03-2006, 02:34 AM   #26
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

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I agree. But we would probably be faced with a true world war with us on a side by ourselves.
fine by me. its usually how it is anyways whenever there needs something done in the world. i think aside from the europeans, we really dont have much to worry about in terms of fighting force, except for a ground battle with the chinese/japan cause they outnumber us manpower wise. japans air force is able, but ours>*all, and we wouldnt even have to bring out the secret stuff. plus if we need some badass ground fighters, well just recruit the israelies. their urban combat skills pwn.
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Old 08-03-2006, 06:24 AM   #27
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

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fine by me. its usually how it is anyways whenever there needs something done in the world. i think aside from the europeans, we really dont have much to worry about in terms of fighting force, except for a ground battle with the chinese/japan cause they outnumber us manpower wise. japans air force is able, but ours>*all, and we wouldnt even have to bring out the secret stuff. plus if we need some badass ground fighters, well just recruit the israelies. their urban combat skills pwn.
We're good, but we're not that good. China and Russia alone could probably defeat us. In the end, man power means a lot more than you think, unless you're willing to bring about a total nuclear winter and a possible end to mankind to win the war.
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Old 08-03-2006, 08:00 AM   #28
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

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We're good, but we're not that good. China and Russia alone could probably defeat us. In the end, man power means a lot more than you think, unless you're willing to bring about a total nuclear winter and a possible end to mankind to win the war.
Russia could not beat squat. They have no money or resources to sustain a major protracted war. Most of their Navy sits in ruin and disrepair. The Army is a shadow of it's former self. True numbers of Russian army has it at 1/3 the size of what is reported. After the fall of the Soviet Union The mass exodus of personel in the Army was mind blowing. They stopped paying them so they left. The Airforce is somewhat formidable but the fact is they are still flying 30+ year old fighters and with money problems they have very few advanced fighters at squadron level. The fact is after the Soviet Union collapsed we found the CIA reports of the the capabilities of the Soviet Union were greatly exaggerated and used to increase US spending on advanced equipment.

China is a different story. They have a massive Army but no food. Most of their Aircraft are 40+ years old. There navy is growing but still not in the top 10 which makes them greatly inferior. Their tanks and artillery are 40+ years old Soviet junk. Now with that they are militarily expanding but they have a long way to go. They right now are just developing a ICBM system capable of delivering a Nuke. They would rely on 50 year old Soviet bombers which are gigantic lumbering target to deliver Nukes. So in a nutshell the Chinese have a giant army of people without the food to move them so honestly they are not a threat.



The fact is we are the Lone Superpower. Russia and China are still third world countries with Nukes.

So to say they would defeat us is not only a joke but 100% inaccurate. we are currently at war with no impact our daily lives in terms of comfort. We have not turned on our economic and industrial capabilities at all. If we desired we could throw 500,000 troops in Iraq and bomb them into the stone age and our economy would not even flicker. If we turned on or economy and industrial base to prosecute a war we have no equals on this planet. Hell in WWII we turned on everything and won the war without the best equipment in the world, but what we had was shear numbers. We out produced the Axis powers 100 to 1. Now we have the greatest economy and the best equipment in the world.


So dont sell us short!!!
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Old 08-03-2006, 01:58 PM   #29
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

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...In the end, man power means a lot more than you think, unless you're willing to bring about a total nuclear winter and a possible end to mankind to win the war.

Better than losing IMO... besides, I doubt that doom-and-gloom stuff a bit,
IMO we could do it with low-yeild neutron bombs very likely. Low megatons
with high Rads.
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Old 08-03-2006, 10:05 PM   #30
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

I have to say, I agree with bbunt. Their sitting on land with loads of natural resources and man power is incredible. That is a very underestimated reason why Russia fended off Napoleon and Hitler, it wasn't JUST the winter. During WWII, while millions of Russians were dying in battle, Stallin was killing millions more at the same time. We are recovering but our defenses still need some more work to be back at the optimum they used to be. China continues to barrel forward in technology and they have even more man power than Russia. If this ever happens, no involved country will ever really recover I don't believe. I know we can do it, but EVERY resource we have would have to be poured straight into the effort (greater than WWII). Right now I don't see Americans uniting like that at all anymore.

Corey makes me want to break out the flag and start waving it, but I'm afraid it might be a bit too rose colored for me.
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Old 08-03-2006, 11:00 PM   #31
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

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I have to say, I agree with bbunt. Their sitting on land with loads of natural resources and man power is incredible.
nothing compared to africa if it got their heads out of their tiki asses. if all of africa united and shared their resources, they WOULD BE, without a doubt, one of the greatest global powers ever concieved. africa has so much natural resources to create raw materials its unreal.

anyone ever play the board game "Risk"? he who holds africa holds the keys to the world. ironic its usually me that gets it right off the bat, and i use the black army.
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Old 08-03-2006, 11:19 PM   #32
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

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Old 08-04-2006, 07:18 AM   #33
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

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I have to say, I agree with bbunt. Their sitting on land with loads of natural resources and man power is incredible. That is a very underestimated reason why Russia fended off Napoleon and Hitler, it wasn't JUST the winter. During WWII, while millions of Russians were dying in battle, Stallin was killing millions more at the same time. We are recovering but our defenses still need some more work to be back at the optimum they used to be. China continues to barrel forward in technology and they have even more man power than Russia. If this ever happens, no involved country will ever really recover I don't believe. I know we can do it, but EVERY resource we have would have to be poured straight into the effort (greater than WWII). Right now I don't see Americans uniting like that at all anymore.

Corey makes me want to break out the flag and start waving it, but I'm afraid it might be a bit too rose colored for me.
Not rose colored just the facts. Russia is so much more fragmented then the news lets you believe. There are still people not being paid over there. They basically work for bartering. They cant even stop a band of Chechens in a remote area. They lost terribly in Afghanistan. The government went from communist control to Mafia run. They are basically a third world nation with a large army. They could not fight a long war without running out of food and basic needs. Winters would not help them in a war where we rule the sky's.

China is the fastest growing country right now but they still have 700,000,000 people in poverty living no better than people in any of the dirt poor African nations. We are allowed to see only the better parts of china because of communist control while they hide the true problems. Even with the speed of their growth they have a long while to catch up with us. There military is way behind ours. Though they rank 1st in the number of ground troops they are unable to support them. Each soldier in the Chinese regular army is required to tend a garden and to animals for food for their units. China imports 80 of the basic food like rice and fish. The rest of their military armament is very old most of the tanks, trucks and armored vehicles are WWII and Korean War vintage. Their Navy is very small and very old.
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Old 08-04-2006, 07:25 AM   #34
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

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Originally Posted by EclipseGSTdude View Post
nothing compared to africa if it got their heads out of their tiki asses. if all of africa united and shared their resources, they WOULD BE, without a doubt, one of the greatest global powers ever concieved. africa has so much natural resources to create raw materials its unreal.

anyone ever play the board game "Risk"? he who holds africa holds the keys to the world. ironic its usually me that gets it right off the bat, and i use the black army.
Africa has tremendous resources but is still tribal and will not work together. For all the resources they have no industry or technology. No African nation but South Africa builds anything to sell the world. They are so screwed up and lack the basic education to build any infrustructure. Every African nation has been independent since the 50's and 60's and they still dont get it. If they ever developed into a unified continent like North America they could be something but so could South America. Problem is Tribal fighting, religion, Aids and 2 bit dictators stand in way of any real potential Africa might have. Aids has ravaged the African Continent. Every year 4.1 million people a year contract Aids in africa 63% of the worlds infected Aids population lives in Africa. 6,000 new cases a day. Most of Africa teeters on the brink of emploding at any moment. They are of little threat to anyone but themselves.
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Old 08-04-2006, 08:14 AM   #35
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Re: Rethinking the war on terror:

Bro Corey speaks much sense, yo!
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