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Old 01-01-2007, 09:55 PM   #1
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Troop Count

So you've all read about the death toll is at 3,000 for our troops. God bless their souls.

My issue is trying to find how many insurgents have died since September 11th. I searched all over the place, but the only thing I get is "OMG 3000 of our troops died!" It's like they are only showing they are getting killed, and that's all they are doing over there.

Forget the crap about helping the Iraqi people or the ones over there protecting the citizens. It's all about body count for the US troops.

In 4 years since this war started.. 3,000 of our troops died.

But GOD FORBID we forget the statistics of World War 2. In 4 years (1941-1945) of the US being in World War 2 we lost 407,300 troops!

For **** sakes, you see how low of a number that is? And I'll bet everything I own to say that the insurgent deaths are over 10,000 since the beginning of the war.
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Old 01-01-2007, 10:09 PM   #2
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Re: Troop Count

I am with you. People listen to the Communist News Network and take it as if they were reading the bible. CNN said it so it has to be true. God forbid anyone ever listens to the troops and the ones that were/are actually there doing the mission.
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Old 01-01-2007, 10:24 PM   #3
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Re: Troop Count

yes id really like them to figure out how to post up insurgent/terrorist casualties as well. im guessing its in the 20K mark. the ratio between us and them kills is low because most of those 3000 are from roadside IDE's, and not face to face combat. when we fight terrorists on equal ground, they get raped, which is why they never fight us on common ground, they resort to ***** tactics. sadly, this is the same reason the american army was able to put such a dent in the british during the revolutionary war, because we used "out of the box" thinking while they still stood in lines fully vulnerable. what we really need to do is stop trying to kill them kindly and start using our own ***** tactics. most the weapons we can use now that will most assuredly end the war are deemed "inhumane" and are against geneva convention. Why we must still adhere to rules of engagement the enemy laughs at is beyond me. sure, stooping down to their level sounds bad but this is war, we either reform, or adapt. if we reform, they win. if we adapt, they lose. right now were on the reform side.

the 3000 mark doesnt really bother me as much when its people that are dying to protect our country, and they fought and died willingly. i mean sure, any fallen soldier is always something you want to avoid, but its war and casualties are expected.

\its still the number of those that died on 9/11 that gets me, people that died for someone elses religious beliefs, their deaths amount to nothing. its that number that most have totally forgotten about.
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Old 01-01-2007, 10:25 PM   #4
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Re: Troop Count

and lets not remember that 700k died in the civil war. im pretty sure more than 3k would die in single battles.

and if you sign up for the army, thats what is expected of you. its not always a free tuition to college deal.
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Old 01-01-2007, 10:32 PM   #5
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Re: Troop Count

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and if you sign up for the army, thats what is expected of you. its not always a free tuition to college deal.
oh dude dont even get me started. i know 4 marines and 1 army guy. 2 out of 4 marines are re-inlisting for Iraq duty cause the WANT to help out iraq and serve their country. the one army guy is a ***** whipped ***** who enlisted for guess what, free college and all that jazz that comes with signing, and cried the night he had to leave for iraq. hes a ****ing truck mechanic that wont ever see any active combat and he *****es and moans about going to iraq. then you have the marine guys who see real combat and sign up for more.
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Old 01-02-2007, 01:01 AM   #6
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Re: Troop Count

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oh dude dont even get me started. i know 4 marines and 1 army guy. 2 out of 4 marines are re-inlisting for Iraq duty cause the WANT to help out iraq and serve their country. the one army guy is a ***** whipped ***** who enlisted for guess what, free college and all that jazz that comes with signing, and cried the night he had to leave for iraq. hes a ****ing truck mechanic that wont ever see any active combat and he *****es and moans about going to iraq. then you have the marine guys who see real combat and sign up for more.
Signing up for the wrong reasons.

It also gets me upset when I see the families crying about how horrible Bush is because their son or daughter died in Iraq. Sorry folks, they signed up for it, what do you expect when you join an army?
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Old 01-02-2007, 12:26 PM   #7
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Re: Troop Count

one of the guys i pledged with is on his way to Iraq right now, from what his buddies who are already there tell him... its a ****ing shooting range. they go out and get 5-10-15 confirmed in a single mission... pure insanity.
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Old 01-02-2007, 01:13 PM   #8
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Re: Troop Count

yeah i signed up for some college money, but that was an added bonus. My main reason for joining is because this is what I want to be doing. And I am begging my commanders to try and get another trip over.

At Gettysburg, iirc 20k died in one day of the 3 days of fighting. or it is 20k for the whole battle.
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Old 01-02-2007, 01:14 PM   #9
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Re: Troop Count

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Originally Posted by oaktonarcher View Post
one of the guys i pledged with is on his way to Iraq right now, from what his buddies who are already there tell him... its a ****ing shooting range. they go out and get 5-10-15 confirmed in a single mission... pure insanity.
That's one hell of a body count per mission !!! I like it You can make a very nice necklace with all those ears. The lost of US life is always a hard thing to take.
But as others have stated 3,000 lost is nothing compared to other wars and conflicts US forces have been involved with. They are soliders !!!! they knew the risks and accepted them
They gave there lives for their beliefs,their country and for all of us.They are the reason we have the freedom and rights we all currently enjoy
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Old 02-22-2008, 09:18 AM   #10
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Thumbs up Re: Troop Count

My man is a Soldier and has been overseas. He knows the amount of the Iraqi's killed. I am also in Army ROTC. I will see if I can get some of those numbers for ya'll. I think it is awesome that you can see the truth behind the lies. KUDO's.
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Old 02-22-2008, 09:22 AM   #11
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one of the guys i pledged with is on his way to Iraq right now, from what his buddies who are already there tell him... its a ****ing shooting range. they go out and get 5-10-15 confirmed in a single mission... pure insanity.
You do not know what is going on!!! It is far more of a shooting match over here in the US in one city that the whole country of Iraq. My man has had 2 tours over there and gained 40 lbs. because of not doing that much! Get your facts straight!!!
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Old 02-22-2008, 09:53 AM   #12
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Re: Troop Count

I have 2 Marines buddies that went over for 8 months in two different locations. Both of them did patrol missions. One close to fallujah and other in Al Asad and neither of them had to kill anyone.

Some areas don't require much killing but i'm sure there are other hot spots where there are.
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Old 02-22-2008, 09:59 AM   #13
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Re: Troop Count

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You do not know what is going on!!! It is far more of a shooting match over here in the US in one city that the whole country of Iraq. My man has had 2 tours over there and gained 40 lbs. because of not doing that much! Get your facts straight!!!
His facts are over a year old....what is going on now is different from jan of 2007.
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Old 02-22-2008, 11:28 AM   #14
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Re: Troop Count

thats how i think EXACTLY. more people died in a single day in WWII than in this war.

...and what about the civil war? god, the body counts were atrocious.
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Old 02-22-2008, 07:09 PM   #15
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Re: Troop Count

Hrm old thread, but it still carries the same great message.
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Old 02-26-2008, 06:24 AM   #16
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Re: Troop Count

It is an old thread. I was reading it, all fired up to say something. Until I realized I already posted in it.

It is amazing to look up statistics of casualties of all the wars the US was involved in, compared to the Iraq war of today. We may lose some of our brothers, but it is nothing in comparison. Did you know the total amount of people killed during WWII (39-45) totaled approx 55 million people.
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Old 02-26-2008, 06:34 AM   #17
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Re: Troop Count

Just because we haven't reached 60k deaths in Iraq like we did in Vietnam doesn't mean it's cool to go knocking down the doors of a country that didn't pose a threat to us and spending over a trillion dollars in the process. Iraq is a disaster.
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Old 02-26-2008, 07:27 AM   #18
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Re: Troop Count

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Just because we haven't reached 60k deaths in Iraq like we did in Vietnam doesn't mean it's cool to go knocking down the doors of a country that didn't pose a threat to us and spending over a trillion dollars in the process. Iraq is a disaster.
You are definitely singing a much different song than before. I find it kind of funny.
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Old 02-26-2008, 07:44 AM   #19
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Re: Troop Count

My view on Iraq has changed drastically than in 2003 and 2004. 5 years after the war started and 4 years after Mission Accomplished and there were never any Weapons of Mass Destruction, no link to 9/11 in Iraq and absolutely no reason to warrant a full scale war in Iraq that cost us almost 4k lives now and approaching $1 Trillion.

I don't know why it's funny that I have changed my position over time. I naively bought into Bush's reasons for this war and honestly thought we would find Weapons of Mass Destruction. President Bush led this country to believe we were going to go into Iraq and find stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons. The world was going to end if Saddam continued to be in power. I bought into it and I was wrong. So i changed my mind, instead of playing party lines.
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Old 02-26-2008, 02:14 PM   #20
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Re: Troop Count

Depends on what your definition of WMDs is. Talking about stadium sized bunkers of Nuclear missles then no. But small caches of nerve agents across the country side then yes, WMDs have been found....not a tidbit CNN tells you about.

And they did pose a threat upon the US and her allies. Aircraft patrolling the no-fly zone imposed in 1991 were shot at on a regular basis by the Iraqis. Also when Saddam refused to allow weapon inspectors in, it posed another threat. A. we leave them alone and hope for the best or B. give them a time table to allow inspectors in, if not met then assume they are manufacturing weapons with intent to use them...we chose B.

If nothing more, we liberated a country with an oppresive leader that order the deaths of his own people. If that makes it a disaster, then so be it.
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Old 02-26-2008, 02:29 PM   #21
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Re: Troop Count

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Depends on what your definition of WMDs is. Talking about stadium sized bunkers of Nuclear missles then no. But small caches of nerve agents across the country side then yes, WMDs have been found....not a tidbit CNN tells you about.

And they did pose a threat upon the US and her allies. Aircraft patrolling the no-fly zone imposed in 1991 were shot at on a regular basis by the Iraqis. Also when Saddam refused to allow weapon inspectors in, it posed another threat. A. we leave them alone and hope for the best or B. give them a time table to allow inspectors in, if not met then assume they are manufacturing weapons with intent to use them...we chose B.

If nothing more, we liberated a country with an oppresive leader that order the deaths of his own people. If that makes it a disaster, then so be it.
Very true, I have a friend who was a private contrator doing munitions destroying over there for 3 years. You talk to her and say we didn't find anything...
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Old 02-27-2008, 12:06 AM   #22
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Re: Troop Count

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Depends on what your definition of WMDs is. Talking about stadium sized bunkers of Nuclear missles then no. But small caches of nerve agents across the country side then yes, WMDs have been found....not a tidbit CNN tells you about.
Syria and Iran have more of that than Iraq ever did. We went to war with them because they posed a direct and imminent threat to the United States and they had weapons of mass destruction that posed that threat to us. Neither ended up being true.

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And they did pose a threat upon the US and her allies. Aircraft patrolling the no-fly zone imposed in 1991 were shot at on a regular basis by the Iraqis.
Not enough reason to have a full scale war with Iraq. Sorry, but during the whole time that they shot at us they never once hit us because our pilots are far superior to anything Iraq had to offer. Which goes back to the fact that they were no threat to us.

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Also when Saddam refused to allow weapon inspectors in, it posed another threat. A. we leave them alone and hope for the best or B. give them a time table to allow inspectors in, if not met then assume they are manufacturing weapons with intent to use them...we chose B.
Bush went to war on an assumption. A dangerous assumption. One that has cost the United States gravely since 2003. Iraq didn't pose a threat in 2003 and Bush knew it. There were other countries in this world that posed the same threat and if not greater threat than Iraq did. Syria for starters. People love to tell me that Iraq shipped all their "big" WMD's to Syria. Well, why aren't we concerned about Syria now? Why is the administration not pressuring Syria? Because there was no WMD's shipped to Syria from Iraq.

This country needs to stop getting involved in the Middle East. Let the Middle East take care of the Middle East. Let them fight and kill each other in their religious wars.

We put Saddam in power. We gave Bin Laden the weapons to defeat the Russians. Now we are "looking" for Bin Laden and we have killed Saddam. In Pakistan, a military dictator that we put into power is now on the verge of being thrown out by the people of Pakistan.

We went into Pakistan and we overthrew an elected government and put in the current President, a Military Dictator. Everything we do in the Middle East backfires greatly.

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If nothing more, we liberated a country with an oppresive leader that order the deaths of his own people. If that makes it a disaster, then so be it.
It's not our job to go around liberating countries. That's not a valid excuse to go spend $1 trillion dollars ****ing up a country and rebuilding it. Why didn't we go liberate African countries. Why are we not liberating Darfur, as it's situation is much more dire than Iraq. President Bush has refused to interfere with Darfur because and I quote:
Quote:
A clear lesson I learned in the museum was that outside forces that tend to divide people up inside their country are unbelievably counterproductive. In other words, people came from other countries — I guess you’d call them colonialists — and they pitted one group of people against another.
That sure sounds like exactly what we did in Iraq.
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Old 02-27-2008, 12:41 PM   #23
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Re: Troop Count

Funny, because a few years ago, you yourself said that having our troops shot at in the no fly zone was reason enough to attack Iraq.
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Old 02-27-2008, 04:04 PM   #24
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Re: Troop Count

I hate to admit too, but I also changed my stance on Iraq. I think our troops are in the wrong place. Though we are fighting for a cause, the reason for entering it weren't up to standards with me.
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Old 02-27-2008, 04:30 PM   #25
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Re: Troop Count

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Funny, because a few years ago, you yourself said that having our troops shot at in the no fly zone was reason enough to attack Iraq.
Why are things so funny to you when I change my mind? I've already said it once in this thread that I have changed my mind on Iraq and obviously I have changed my mind on what is required for this country to go to war with another one. Just because I said something when I was 17-18 years old doesn't mean it's written in stone and I can never change my opinion.
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Old 02-27-2008, 05:57 PM   #26
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Re: Troop Count

Its funny because none of these view changes happened until you became a Ron Paul fanatic (I won't use paultard because that is just stupid (what idiot came up with that anyway?)). You pretty much say everything he has been saying ever since he decided to run for president. That is what I think is funny.
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Old 02-27-2008, 06:40 PM   #27
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Re: Troop Count

Well I don't know why it's funny. I would hope people would be allowed to change their minds. It's not like I am one to just jump on a bandwagon and mindlessly follow one person to my doom.

Ron Paul put things in perspective for me and that kind of opened my mind up to the possibility that some things I have believed in the past, dare I say, could be wrong. Until he got up and started talking about this, no one really had a strong voice for the kinds of things he talked about. You just saw a bunch of sound bites of "x doesn't work so we should do y" with no real thought and debate behind those.

When I hear him stand up for these things and put intellectual thought behind them that makes sense it really makes an impact on you to open up your mind and consider the thought, the outright insanity, that George Bush might not be the second coming of Christ, that this two party system is really failing us.

I also don't think it takes a genius to see that Iraq was a poorly thought out war. One that was not needed. War should only be used as a last resort and truly be in defense of the United States. We go to war with Iraq to secure our country and yet if George Bush put 1% of the effort he put into selling the Iraq war into securing our borders this country would actually be a safer place today than it is.
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Old 03-22-2008, 11:10 PM   #28
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Re: Troop Count

To bump this up..

US deaths in Iraq approach 4,000 - Yahoo! News

Now we are close to 4000 deaths. It's been a full year and 3, close to 4 months per thousand deaths. But my opinion still stands, these numbers are not insane but actually low considering how long we've been there.

And again, no where in the link does it say how many Insurgents have died during our time there, only that

Quote:
U.S. officials have pointed to a number of positive signs, including a 60 percent drop in violence since Bush ordered 30,000 U.S. reinforcements to Iraq early last year. Iraqis have also made some limited progress in power-sharing deals among rival Shiite, Sunni and Kurdish communities.
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Old 03-22-2008, 11:15 PM   #29
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Re: Troop Count

But I would also like to point this out

March 2005

Heavy Insurgent Toll in Iraq (washingtonpost.com)

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The guerrilla death toll was the largest in any battle since the Marines led an assault on the insurgent-held city of Fallujah in November, when more than 1,000 fighters were reported killed.
This was back in 2005, and this took place between November to March, 5 months of fighting. What has 5 months brought against the US military? By numbers, maybe 350-400 troops per 6-7 months. Compared, I'd say our boys are doing very well.

Granted our military men can't prevent people blowing themselves up in crowds killing 10+ civilians and 1 troop, our boys are holding their own.

Salute our troops all the way.
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Old 03-23-2008, 03:48 PM   #30
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Re: Troop Count

4,000 dead soldiers in a war that was "Mission Accomplished" 4 years ago is way to many.
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Old 03-23-2008, 04:27 PM   #31
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Re: Troop Count

quitting when the going gets tough is just more signs of a pussified nation.

getting rid of saddam was the easy part (and should have been done almost 15 years ago), establishing a democratic and soverign Iraq is the hard part.

by fighting them (insurgents/terrorists, etc) on their own turf, it puts pressure on them to a point where they cannot plan a second attack on our nation since they are so focused on our troops. 4,000 dead troops is a better outcome than another countless lives that would be lost in a second attack. our soldiers are trained to fight and die, our civilians are not.


as far as border security goes, its moot, as within our lifetime, the USA will be dissolved into the NAU. why spend billions making a brick wall when 20-40 years from now its going to come down? Even Ron Paul wont have the power to overturn the inevitable. as much as you or me will hate the day USA no longer stands for anything, its going to happen whether we like it or not. it will take a revolution of epic proportions to stop it and i dont think the american people have the balls to stand up for much of anything anymore.
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Old 03-23-2008, 04:41 PM   #32
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Re: Troop Count

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Originally Posted by Thomas91169 View Post
quitting when the going gets tough is just more signs of a pussified nation.
Oh give me a break. A weak nation is what we have become because we have involved ourselves over there and pushed our economy and military to it's limits. This whole war was built on false accusations. They were not threat to the United States. We should not be attacking countries that are not a direct threat to the United States. Period. "Quitting" is doing the right thing because getting involved in the first place was wrong.

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getting rid of saddam was the easy part (and should have been done almost 15 years ago), establishing a democratic and soverign Iraq is the hard part.
Iraq will never be a democracy. Wake up.

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by fighting them (insurgents/terrorists, etc) on their own turf, it puts pressure on them to a point where they cannot plan a second attack on our nation since they are so focused on our troops. 4,000 dead troops is a better outcome than another countless lives that would be lost in a second attack. our soldiers are trained to fight and die, our civilians are not.
9/11 was preventable without a war. Preventing another attack on us is possible without this war. This war has done nothing to secure our borders. It's only created more anger since 9/11 in the place that breeds these terrorists. You think these people are just going to put their guns down and stop fighting us? They will never do that. They'll continue to recruit people to blow themselves up in the name of Allah. This war hasn't done anything to better our country. Only weaken it.


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as far as border security goes, its moot, as within our lifetime, the USA will be dissolved into the NAU. why spend billions making a brick wall when 20-40 years from now its going to come down? Even Ron Paul wont have the power to overturn the inevitable. as much as you or me will hate the day USA no longer stands for anything, its going to happen whether we like it or not. it will take a revolution of epic proportions to stop it and i dont think the american people have the balls to stand up for much of anything anymore.
I don't see the NAU happening.
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Old 03-23-2008, 07:03 PM   #33
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Re: Troop Count

agree to disagree :thumbs2:
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Old 03-24-2008, 09:23 AM   #34
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Re: Troop Count

this isnt a war between the US and iraq.. its not between the US and terrorism... its not even a war in iraq... its another cold war.

our troops are stationed there because its the main front of our influence. to the west, egypt and israel, our two main allies in the area. we pump money into them like crazy because they share our own ideas on culture/government. this puts up a wall to the west. now, the iraq war was because of 9/11 and all... but its right smack dab in the middle of hell. Divide and Conquer anyone? we all know it that place is ****in loco... and now we have some control over it.

this is another crusade but not hidden under the vail of "religion." we are there to spread our vision of the world to the middle east and it isnt working. but perhaps just us being there is slowing down their influence/vision of the world. we could just turtle in our own country... but that wouldnt solve anything either... people will still hate us, actively try to upset our way of live, and we will just sit there inactively trying to do anyting about it. ever turtule in a RTS? i have... it never works.
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Old 03-24-2008, 11:59 AM   #35
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Re: Troop Count

We were already heavily in the Middle East before we started this war. It's not another "Cold War" if we are approaching 4k dead.
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