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Old 05-23-2007, 07:45 PM   #1
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uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

Creation Museum - Religion - New York Times

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Outside the museum scientists may assert that the universe is billions of years old, that fossils are the remains of animals living hundreds of millions of years ago, and that life’s diversity is the result of evolution by natural selection. But inside the museum the Earth is barely 6,000 years old, dinosaurs were created on the sixth day, and Jesus is the savior who will one day repair the trauma of man’s fall.

It is a measure of the museum’s daring that dinosaurs and fossils — once considered major challenges to belief in the Bible’s creation story — are here so central, appearing not as tests of faith, as one religious authority once surmised, but as creatures no different from the giraffes and cats that still walk the earth. Fossils, the museum teaches, are no older than Noah’s flood; in fact dinosaurs were on the ark.
and i thought 2 of each animal was ridiculous.. now its 2 of each dinosaur too!
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Old 05-23-2007, 07:48 PM   #2
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Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

hahahahahaahahahahaha :breath: hahaha....




ok, ok, I'm better now. Wow, I needed that. yeah, the ignorance hurts my brain.
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Old 05-23-2007, 09:51 PM   #3
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Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

riiiiight
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Old 05-23-2007, 10:41 PM   #4
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Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

there are some definite dum dums in this world. most of them religious.
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Old 05-23-2007, 10:55 PM   #5
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Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

It's about time we had another side portrayed other than the typical. Last I checked, evolution isn't fact either.
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Old 05-24-2007, 12:37 AM   #6
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Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

last time i checked, we have dug up many skeletons of ancestral humans. that pretty much proves evolution right there. where we are now has had a direct impact on where we came from for millions of years.
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Old 05-24-2007, 12:48 AM   #7
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Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

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Originally Posted by Thomas91169 View Post
last time i checked, we have dug up many skeletons of ancestral humans. that pretty much proves evolution right there. where we are now has had a direct impact on where we came from for millions of years.
Yes, because us humans that dug them up and dated them with tests developed by humans and put together with human hands never make any mistakes...
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Old 05-24-2007, 03:07 AM   #8
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Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

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Yes, because us humans that dug them up and dated them with tests developed by humans and put together with human hands never make any mistakes...
but didn't us dumb, mistake makin' humans write the bible too!
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Old 05-24-2007, 03:12 AM   #9
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Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

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Yes, because us humans that dug them up and dated them with tests developed by humans and put together with human hands never make any mistakes...
interesting........

i guess every mathematic problem i ever got wrong could be right, because, mathematical theory was also created by humans, so the theory could be wrong too. who knows, maybe 2+2 doesnt equal 4 at all :dunno:

i cant wait till a race of aliens makes contact, and we go "do you guys believe in a god?" and they go "Religion, bah, we gave that up long time ago, caused too many problems, you know, religious wars over land and beliefs and whatnot. much easier this way. why, do you guys still believe, cause if so were getting the **** out of here! zarmak, make ready the warp drive!"
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Old 05-24-2007, 03:33 AM   #10
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Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

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but didn't us dumb, mistake makin' humans write the bible too!
Dude God totally helped us out that time
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Old 05-24-2007, 05:58 AM   #11
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Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

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Originally Posted by n8r View Post
Yes, because us humans that dug them up and dated them with tests developed by humans and put together with human hands never make any mistakes...
that's the crazy thing about people... we're pretty crafty. Those tests are decently accurate. I mean, it's not like they're gonna be off by 4.599994 billion years man.. not when the number is 4.600000 billion. Think about it, 6,000 vs. 4.6 billion. That's like the steriods a HS'er is taking vs. Barry Bonds, not even in the same league.
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Old 05-24-2007, 06:04 AM   #12
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Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

hell, in my other post yesterday it said that sharks became asexual right in front of our eyes. its because that finding a mate is so rare for them and they only have 1 offspring at a time, their species had to evolve to survive. look at the different forms of animals all across the worlds.. different lions, elephants, EVEN humans. did God put an adam and even in asia, africa, europe, and north america? there is definite proof that even humans experienced a small dose of evolution (im saying that asians, africans, europeans, and native americans... generally speaking... have different builds). its not that drastic, but you can't deny that there are differences! some people back in the day must have traveled to a different part of the world, many, many years went by and changes became apparent. now that is visual, unaided proof by machinery and testing that evolution is plausible.

the difference between religion and science at this point in time is that religion starts with the answer and then comes up with bogus facts to prove the answer right afterwards (constantly changing facts also). science takes what is known, applies more knowledge, comes up with an answer and then runs more tests to recheck it and/or confirm it. another difference is that religion takes what is said and refuses to accept anything else even though thousands of years past and the world, culture, and times have changed. science will continue to adapt to what we know, need to know, and looks optimistically to the future (as compared to the world is going to inevitably goig to end and itll be cool because ill ascend to a different world).
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Old 05-24-2007, 07:02 AM   #13
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Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

Anyone who believes the world is only 6,000 years old is obviously way out of touch with reality. Here's a couple of words: Diamonds. Oil. Grand Canyon. Harmonicas. I'm not even going to mention the big 'D' word.
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Old 05-24-2007, 07:38 AM   #14
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Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

More religious debate!
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Old 05-24-2007, 08:48 AM   #15
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Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

The earth is older than 6,000 years... and carbon dating is not exact but it is exact to a range... which shows that items on the earth are older than 6,000 years.
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Old 05-24-2007, 09:35 AM   #16
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Thumbs down Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas91169 View Post
there are some definite dum dums in this world. most of them religious.
2:

Wow, that's a pretty baseless statement...

I'll refrain from diving into this, but I took issue with that. Let's just overlook all the brilliant people who were religious. Let's just forget that the first universities and colleges were religious. Let's just put all the religious people in the world (huge majority) and say that's where most of the idiots come from.
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Old 05-24-2007, 10:50 AM   #17
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Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

lol, it seems we make progress with each other before and then "Oh snap! I must be a 'dum dum' and forgot everything we talked about before!!11".

In past, we have had this debate. Species DO adapt or heck even "evolve" if you will. As Wiarumas pointed out, there are different types of humans, different types of dogs, cats, monkeys, birds, etc. BUT guess what? They are still humans, dogs, cats, monkeys, birds, etc.

We have yet to find proof of an animal or human, evolving from a totally different animal. All these little missing links they think they find, either proved to be hoaxes, deformed, too fragmented to know for sure, or just another animal/tribe all by itself.

As for Thomas's arguements, I have a hard time taking seriously anything said on this topic by someone who thought we had created life before

We aren't the Bible thumping ignorant televangelists that preach if you believe in dinosaurs you're going to hell anymore. We have gotten around that incredibly stupid/backward time and have been for probably approaching 50 years. Religion, by it's simple nature is resistant to change because of it's corruption through man. That doesn't neccesarily make the core of it's foundation, the first beliefs, wrong, just like the very core foundation of evolution holds some of the greatest flaws in the entire theory.

As for carbon dating: the entire schedule the system is based on is flawed. If you just listen to some of these documentaries on National Geographic, Discovery, or even read any of the articles. They use carbon dating on the soil level they find these bones in (this is flawed in and of itself) and then use that to date the bones. But later on they will use carbon dating on the bones to date the soil??? Talk about a nice little circle where numbers can be made up to go along with whatever little era/epoch you want

Oh, and the Earth is probably closer to 10,000 years old.
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Old 05-24-2007, 10:52 AM   #18
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Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

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but didn't us dumb, mistake makin' humans write the bible too!
And not a very well written book .I had a hard time following the plot .Only thing that really stood out was the Adam And Eve thing. Now if they had 2 boys cain and abel who fathered Cain and Abel's children ??
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Old 05-24-2007, 10:53 AM   #19
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Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

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2:

Wow, that's a pretty baseless statement...

I'll refrain from diving into this, but I took issue with that. Let's just overlook all the brilliant people who were religious. Let's just forget that the first universities and colleges were religious. Let's just put all the religious people in the world (huge majority) and say that's where most of the idiots come from.
Sounds good to me
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Old 05-24-2007, 10:54 AM   #20
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Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

Never understood the concept of carbon dating really. I know how they do it, but never really understood how they came up with the definitive numbers they use in the formulas.

Oh well...I don't listen to scientists anyhow...they go around in circles most the time anyhow...
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Old 05-24-2007, 12:48 PM   #21
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Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

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Oh, and the Earth is probably closer to 10,000 years old.
2:
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Old 05-24-2007, 01:19 PM   #22
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Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

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Originally Posted by Fred_Meyer View Post
2:

Wow, that's a pretty baseless statement...

I'll refrain from diving into this, but I took issue with that. Let's just overlook all the brilliant people who were religious. Let's just forget that the first universities and colleges were religious. Let's just put all the religious people in the world (huge majority) and say that's where most of the idiots come from.
Thats just the typical smugness of an Atheist.
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Old 05-24-2007, 01:29 PM   #23
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Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

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2:
I second that lol...
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Old 05-24-2007, 01:33 PM   #24
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Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

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Oh, and the Earth is probably closer to 10,000 years old.

x2.
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Old 05-24-2007, 01:37 PM   #25
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Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

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Oh, and the Earth is probably closer to 10,000 years old.

It can't be,....10,000 just isn't as impressive as billions...it doesn't make you sound super intelligent when saying 10,000....where as saying 6 billion makes it sound like you are a genious.

So...it must be much older than 10,000.
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Old 05-24-2007, 03:18 PM   #26
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Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

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It can't be,....10,000 just isn't as impressive as billions...it doesn't make you sound super intelligent when saying 10,000....where as saying 6 billion makes it sound like you are a genious.

So...it must be much older than 10,000.
lol
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Old 05-24-2007, 03:20 PM   #27
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Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

carbon dating works off the concentration of carbon-14, a radioactive isotope of carbon ("normal" stable number of 12). Carbon-14, like MANY naturally occurring processes follows an exponential decay function. This function can tell you the half life of the carbon-14. They use this to estimate the age of the sample. The reason it losses accuracy is because as you approach very very small concentrations, the process of decay starts becoming random. This is where Uranium or other "longer half life" decay curves are used. I could look up the specifics, but I don't care to right now. Anyway, what they do, they take a sample of the "average" carbon-14 level, and then your sample, and there's a difference of concentration. They compare this difference to the decay curve, and it tells them the "time" difference between the soil sample and the "to date" sample.

As a side note, the head on your beer "decays" or decreases based on an exponential decay curve. Also, half life is the time it takes for 1/2 of the sample to decay. The exponential decay curve follows similar to it takes a certain amount of time for 1/2 of the sample to decay, then the same amount of time for the next 1/2 of the remaining sample to decay, and then 1/2 of the remaining sample in the same time... etc. So that's why once you get to past like 6-8 half lifes, it becomes hard to date by decay because the process randomizes.
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Old 05-24-2007, 03:26 PM   #28
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Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

I know all of that...but...how do they know how much carbon a particular material has to start with so they can say this have halved x amount of times...so it must be eleventy billion years old?

Maybe dinosaurs had less carbon than humans....so the halves are not nearly as numerous as originally thought.

Like I Said....where do they get these mysterious definitive numbers to start with....
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Old 05-24-2007, 03:30 PM   #29
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Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

well, carbon-14 dating doesn't work for "billions of years". That would be the Uranium dating I referred to. Carbon-14 dating only works for up to around 50,000 years. Also, we know about what proportion of carbon has the carbon-14 isotope in the atmosphere.. or top soil. This is relatively constant. Buried things like bones, aren't exposed to this carbon-14, so the decay occurs at a constant rate. You're right in that we don't know the exact amount of carbon-14 in the atmosphere, but the concentrations of carbon-14/carbon-12 would remain almost identical. Plus, since they contain a large amount of carbon, this gives plenty of carbon to sample for the carbon-14/carbon-12 ratio. This ratio is compared to atmospheric, or normal levels.
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Old 05-24-2007, 03:36 PM   #30
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Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

How do we know what the level of carbon in the atmosphere was thousands/millions/billions of years ago? no one was there with their cool devices measuring stuff. no one can have any relative clue...specially when major climate and atmospheric changes have occurred like ice ages, volcanoes, etc, etc.

The point I am making is...scientists don't know any of this stuff to any certainty, yet sit there and state things as fact. I was a math/science major and I still can't accept the assumptions they make.
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Old 05-24-2007, 04:19 PM   #31
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Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

Volcanic eruptions can influence the amount of carbon in it's immediate, even long reaching surroundings, Meteroite impacts can influence the amount of carbon over vast regions. If the bowl of the Gulf of Mexico is indeed a crater, this would have cause a massive amount of disruption to not just carbon but other chemical/mineral/substance densities.

In addition, I suppose the people doing the measuring also know for how long the fossils were left uncovered or covered? Would not massive or even local flooding also affect this? Landslides/earthquakes/eruptions would also deposit things contained in the soil all over the place, even lay out new strata or jumble existing strata...
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Old 05-24-2007, 04:28 PM   #32
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Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

Not to mention severe earth quakes jumbling the land...spewing forth lava and what not...

So yeah....if goes back to...how do we know these definitive numbers of what was then....it also goes back to the fact that saying billion sounds cooler than saying thousands...
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Old 05-24-2007, 04:28 PM   #33
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Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

First, you should know science never claims "absolute facts" unless something is undeniable. Hell, even evolution isn't a "fact".
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Old 05-24-2007, 04:31 PM   #34
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Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

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First, you should know science never claims "absolute facts" unless something is undeniable. Hell, even evolution isn't a "fact".
That is true...however...scientists claim as fact the age of different strata/fossils/etc...because of the fact that carbon dating says so...even though they have no idea what the initial parameters in their equations should be.

No one says "We think this fossil is 100 million years old"...they say..."This fossil is 100 million years old".
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Old 05-24-2007, 04:38 PM   #35
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Re: uh... (weird news article about dinosaurs and noah)

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lol, it seems we make progress with each other before and then "Oh snap! I must be a 'dum dum' and forgot everything we talked about before!!11".

In past, we have had this debate. Species DO adapt or heck even "evolve" if you will. As Wiarumas pointed out, there are different types of humans, different types of dogs, cats, monkeys, birds, etc. BUT guess what? They are still humans, dogs, cats, monkeys, birds, etc.

We have yet to find proof of an animal or human, evolving from a totally different animal. All these little missing links they think they find, either proved to be hoaxes, deformed, too fragmented to know for sure, or just another animal/tribe all by itself.

As for Thomas's arguements, I have a hard time taking seriously anything said on this topic by someone who thought we had created life before

We aren't the Bible thumping ignorant televangelists that preach if you believe in dinosaurs you're going to hell anymore. We have gotten around that incredibly stupid/backward time and have been for probably approaching 50 years. Religion, by it's simple nature is resistant to change because of it's corruption through man. That doesn't neccesarily make the core of it's foundation, the first beliefs, wrong, just like the very core foundation of evolution holds some of the greatest flaws in the entire theory.

As for carbon dating: the entire schedule the system is based on is flawed. If you just listen to some of these documentaries on National Geographic, Discovery, or even read any of the articles. They use carbon dating on the soil level they find these bones in (this is flawed in and of itself) and then use that to date the bones. But later on they will use carbon dating on the bones to date the soil??? Talk about a nice little circle where numbers can be made up to go along with whatever little era/epoch you want

Oh, and the Earth is probably closer to 10,000 years old.
actually there are different species that are apparent. for example, prarie dogs and squirrels are the first ones that come to mind. they are very closely related.
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