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Old 06-06-2007, 12:57 PM   #1
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June 6th Day in History

6th June - This day in history

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Old 06-06-2007, 01:18 PM   #2
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Re: June 6th Day in History

Now that is how you fight a damn war.
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Old 06-06-2007, 01:46 PM   #3
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Re: June 6th Day in History

Longest Day :patriot:
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Old 06-06-2007, 01:55 PM   #4
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Re: June 6th Day in History

Kick *** and take names!!
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Old 06-06-2007, 02:04 PM   #5
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Re: June 6th Day in History

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Now that is how you fight a damn war.
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Kick *** and take names!!
None of our leaders have the balls to do such things anymore...The days of Patton tearing *** through the country side are over.
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Old 06-06-2007, 02:08 PM   #6
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Re: June 6th Day in History

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The days of Patton tearing *** through the country side are over.
Because there are no standing armies to fight.
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Old 06-06-2007, 02:25 PM   #7
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Re: June 6th Day in History

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Because there are no standing armies to fight.
thats because modern day weapons (large scale bombs, missiles, stealth aircraft, AI, UAV's) have made that type of fighting "obsolete"...a few sidewinder missiles or things of that nature could wipe out a huge portion of infantry within a few minutes...
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Old 06-06-2007, 02:26 PM   #8
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Re: June 6th Day in History

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None of our leaders have the balls to do such things anymore...The days of Patton tearing *** through the country side are over.
and you can thank the press and the days of Vietnam for castrating all of our leaders and taking away all ability for "***-kickery"...
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Old 06-06-2007, 02:33 PM   #9
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Re: June 6th Day in History

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thats because modern day weapons (large scale bombs, missiles, stealth aircraft, AI, UAV's) have made that type of fighting "obsolete"...a few sidewinder missiles or things of that nature could wipe out a huge portion of infantry within a few minutes...
Not to be a technical ******* or what not, but the sidewinder missile is an air to air weapon...
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Old 06-06-2007, 02:35 PM   #10
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Re: June 6th Day in History

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Not to be a technical ******* or what not, but the sidewinder missile is an air to air weapon...
You beat me to it.
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Old 06-06-2007, 02:43 PM   #11
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Re: June 6th Day in History

Guys, we should totally go back to trench warfare because its more fun to read about and makes better movies amirite
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Old 06-06-2007, 02:43 PM   #12
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Re: June 6th Day in History

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and you can thank the press and the days of Vietnam for castrating all of our leaders and taking away all ability for "***-kickery"...
No, actually, we can thank the nutless wonders in charge for castrating our military leaders just because of something that the media prints/says. Our leaders should walk into the media locations, hand them a debate guide for diplomatic solutions, and say have at it sparky. When they come back sans head/mutilated/etc....then we can go do the job right and the complainers will theoretically all be dead.
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Old 06-06-2007, 02:54 PM   #13
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Re: June 6th Day in History

^:thumbs2:
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Old 06-06-2007, 02:57 PM   #14
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Re: June 6th Day in History

Just curious, but how many of you guys that think we aren't "***-kicking" enough, and long for the days where only 1 in 30 guys make it off the landing craft, are eligible for the draft?
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Old 06-06-2007, 02:59 PM   #15
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Re: June 6th Day in History

Well consider after that landing we've developed new ways and new crafts for such events. but Ya gotta do what ya gotta do right?
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Old 06-06-2007, 03:01 PM   #16
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Re: June 6th Day in History

Thats the whole point, you don't gotta do it anymore, you just launch some missiles.
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Old 06-06-2007, 03:03 PM   #17
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Re: June 6th Day in History

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Just curious, but how many of you guys that think we aren't "***-kicking" enough, and long for the days where only 1 in 30 guys make it off the landing craft, are eligible for the draft?
Yo...and in fact...I tried to join up 10 years ago only to find out they didn't want anyone that isn't a twig at that time.

The point about us not being *** kicking enough is the point of us not being able to do anything in Iraq until something happens to us first. Well, with an IED or whatever the latest abbreviation is, there may not be an "after". They pulled the same **** in vietnam...of which I have heard from several vets they started the process of shooting first...then shooting up their own trucks so that they can pass the "don't shoot first" rule.

To this day I would willingly sign up and go back to Iraq.
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Old 06-06-2007, 03:04 PM   #18
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Re: June 6th Day in History

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Well consider after that landing we've developed new ways and new crafts for such events. but Ya gotta do what ya gotta do right?
And yet we aren't allowed to use our new cool weapons in a proactive manner...we are only allowed to be re-active.
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Old 06-06-2007, 03:13 PM   #19
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Re: June 6th Day in History

I'm not talking about rules of engagement, i'm talking about the difference in trying to make a beach landing with thousands of troops into a fortified position not really being the smart money now that we have guided bombs and cruise missiles and such. The first few posts sounded like people wanted to go back to the old days of mass casualty trench fighting just because its full of action and excitement....at least as long as you are just watching it on tv.

I guess i could have taken it wrong and you guys just meant we weren't as "dedicated" or whatever now, but I think that is just as much a side effect of only half the country or less even wanting or caring about a war in iraq.
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Old 06-06-2007, 03:15 PM   #20
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Re: June 6th Day in History

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Not to be a technical ******* or what not, but the sidewinder missile is an air to air weapon...
yes, you are correct...but be that as it my, that wasn't my point ...and besides, a sidewinder could shoot down a troop transport aircraft and take out a large portion military...but thank you for the picky correction...I should have been more specific
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Old 06-06-2007, 03:16 PM   #21
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Re: June 6th Day in History

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No, actually, we can thank the nutless wonders in charge for castrating our military leaders just because of something that the media prints/says. Our leaders should walk into the media locations, hand them a debate guide for diplomatic solutions, and say have at it sparky. When they come back sans head/mutilated/etc....then we can go do the job right and the complainers will theoretically all be dead.
you just said the same exact thing that I said...you were just more specific about which leader you were referring...It comes down to the fact that since Vietnam, battle has become more about "politics" and "public opinion" from the press than kicking *** and getting the job done... to you
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Old 06-06-2007, 03:19 PM   #22
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Re: June 6th Day in History

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Yo...and in fact...I tried to join up 10 years ago only to find out they didn't want anyone that isn't a twig at that time.
and I tried to join 5 years ago myself, but I shattered my knee when I was 15, so uncle sam declared me medically inelligible...:patriot:
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Old 06-06-2007, 03:20 PM   #23
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Re: June 6th Day in History

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I guess i could have taken it wrong and you guys just meant we weren't as "dedicated" or whatever now, but I think that is just as much a side effect of only half the country or less even wanting or caring about a war in iraq.

Yes, you did take it a little wrong...at least from my perspective. Take off the blinders and stop tying our troops hands and let the do the job quickly, efficiently, effectively, and correctly the first time...and not drag **** out for years just walking/cruising the streets of bagdad like fish in a barrel. I think that is more the point of everyone...
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Old 06-06-2007, 03:22 PM   #24
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Re: June 6th Day in History

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and I tried to join 5 years ago myself, but I shattered my knee when I was 15, so uncle sam declared me medically inelligible...:patriot:
I was 6', 245, and they told me I was too fat for the military. I was in the range of 18ish % body fat at the time...but, since I didn't meat the 204-206 lb requirement for being 6' tall, I couldn't join up. Even the tape measure test failed because I have a thick neck...of which I discovered through my recruiter brother-in-law, the tape measure test is about as accurate as a uzi in the hands of an epileptic rabbit with the hiccups.
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Old 06-06-2007, 03:23 PM   #25
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Re: June 6th Day in History

agreed the use for a frontal attack with guided missiles and bombs would be the way to go rather than sending a meat shield first. Although back then they did use artillery bombardment before sending men in. Even on D-day they bombed the **** out of the German defenses before the landing crafts approached the beaches.
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Old 06-06-2007, 03:25 PM   #26
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Re: June 6th Day in History

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Take off the blinders and stop tying our troops hands and let the do the job quickly, efficiently, effectively, and correctly the first time...
How does one do that?
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Old 06-06-2007, 03:30 PM   #27
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Re: June 6th Day in History

Well, another thing to think about is the "objective" we are quickly, efficiently, effectively, and correctly trying to achieve. What is it? We removed Saddam already, what else are we doing? Troops can't fight people into a democracy so really there isn't anything they CAN do but ride around like fish in a barrel. In previous wars like WW2 we went in with the objective of removing hitler and liberating europe, and when we did that, it was pretty much over. Current wars are being fought over things that are almost unattainable, "war on terror"? give me a break, you can't ever win a war on terror, so how can you expect the military to quickly and efficiently end it?

edit: beaten, but mine has more words
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Old 06-06-2007, 03:31 PM   #28
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Re: June 6th Day in History

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How does one do that?
Step 1: Stop politicizing the war and provide the troops with what they need, when they need it...ie, armor.
Step 2: Remove the rules of engagement...ie, when you feel threatened, shoot first, worry about it later.
Step 3: When a pocket of resistance is found....eliminate it and anything around it that is sympathetic to it.
Step 4: When a group of people know where these pockets are located (ie, Al Jazera)....go to said group, make them talk (see step 5), find the pockets, and eliminate them (see step 3).
Step 5: When prisoners are taken, do what is needed to get information.
Step 6: If all is in doubt, end the region...worked once...will work again (ie, Japan).
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Old 06-06-2007, 03:33 PM   #29
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Re: June 6th Day in History

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Well, another thing to think about is the "objective" we are quickly, efficiently, effectively, and correctly trying to achieve. What is it? We removed Saddam already, what else are we doing? Troops can't fight people into a democracy so really there isn't anything they CAN do but ride around like fish in a barrel. In previous wars like WW2 we went in with the objective of removing hitler and liberating europe, and when we did that, it was pretty much over. Current wars are being fought over things that are almost unattainable, "war on terror"? give me a break, you can't ever win a war on terror, so how can you expect the military to quickly and efficiently end it?

edit: beaten, but mine has more words
The original objective was completed...I agree. However, the secondary objective of removing the pockets of terrorists that popped up, and continue to pop up more and more, is where we are limited. Too much time is spent waiting for attacks...and not enough time seeking them out.
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Old 06-06-2007, 03:41 PM   #30
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Re: June 6th Day in History

So if the pockets continue to pop up more and more, how do you suppose we are going to be able to finish the war?
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Old 06-06-2007, 03:44 PM   #31
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Re: June 6th Day in History

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So if the pockets continue to pop up more and more, how do you suppose we are going to be able to finish the war?
By eliminating them when they pop up. They keep popping up because the pockets gain strength due to us waiting around more than we seek and destroy.

It boils down to we are playing cops and robbers over there rather than finishing a mission. One finishes the mission by beating your adversary into submission...or finally just eliminating them. However, neither can happen when soldiers are walking the streets like patrolmen waiting to be shot at so they can react...assuming they survived the shooting attempt.
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Old 06-06-2007, 03:50 PM   #32
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Re: June 6th Day in History

Thats the basic flaw in thinking you can fight against terrorism. For every pocket you eliminate, or every person you torture to find those pockets, you are just going to drive more people to their cause. Even if you simultaneously killed every single pocket of terrorists in the world right now, at least one of them is going to have a brother or something that feels like amerikkka totally wronged his family and blows himself up in a grocery store or something.
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Old 06-06-2007, 03:54 PM   #33
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Re: June 6th Day in History

This is true...however over time you will get very efficient at locating these groups and removing them to the point where it will be hard for them to ever come out into the open without risking exposure.

However, it could all be boiled down to instead of fighting the terrorist mentality that is being indoctrinated from a young age...just removing the enablers and pretty much everything else near by and let the whole region just start over once the fallout clears.
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Old 06-06-2007, 04:02 PM   #34
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Re: June 6th Day in History

I agree that extreme measures would have to be taken to make any headway into fixing the problem, but the problem with that is that we have to use some of the same tactics we condemn them for, or condemned the nazis for anyways.


Anywho, agreeing to disagree to save Brent some bandwidth.
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Old 06-06-2007, 04:04 PM   #35
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Re: June 6th Day in History

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I agree that extreme measures would have to be taken to make any headway into fixing the problem, but the problem with that is that we have to use some of the same tactics we condemn them for, or condemned the nazis for anyways.
Which is perfectly fine with me....sometimes you have to fight fire with fire....
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