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Old 11-30-2010, 10:34 AM   #36
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Re: andre johnson will not take any of your crap sir

As much as I hate Finnegan he wasn't assaulting Johnson.
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Old 11-30-2010, 10:36 AM   #37
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Re: andre johnson will not take any of your crap sir

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As much as I hate Finnegan he wasn't assaulting Johnson.
Exactly...trash talking...sure...hands to the face...sure...15 yard penalty...but to break out into a game of Mike Tyson's Punchout....over reaction.
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Old 11-30-2010, 10:36 AM   #38
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Re: andre johnson will not take any of your crap sir

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I was too....I was a fullback...he was a defensive lineman. Didn't have to beat on him to get my point across...instead, I just failed to make cuts and ran straight at him. Eventually, he got the point...

But Will is right...so, the message we get is, if someone talks smack, or puts hands to the face, it is completely acceptable for you to rip their helmet off and throw punches until the refs split you up. The other message is that if you are a big marquis player, you will only have to worry about a fine...because being out will leave you at a competitive disadvantage and cost the league money.

DUI = Suspension.
Reports of sexual misconduct which was not prosecuted because there wasn't enough evidence = Suspension
Taking pics of your junk and texting them to someone could possibly = suspension

Throwing punches because you lost your temper = slap on the wrist.

I am not seeing any kind of consistency here from the league. In one moment roggie is trying to be mr hard-*** and laying down the law...then, he turns around and slaps you on the wrist for something that should always equal a suspension no matter what the situation.
I'm not saying I agree with fights on the field. The league has escalated fines for hits to the head, but have let Finnegan have his cheap shots. The officials ignored the situation long before the blow up, allowing it to escalate. A simple flag or two earlier in the game may have ended it. Part of the job of the official is to keep these situations from escalating when it's obvious that's where they're headed.

You can't have this "let them play" attitude and then be surprised when a cheap player goes too far and tension rises to the breaking point. Finnegan's attitude after demonstrates exactly his intentions. He was elated he got that reaction. Clearly points to him trying for a blow up.
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Old 11-30-2010, 10:37 AM   #39
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Re: andre johnson will not take any of your crap sir

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As much as I hate Finnegan he wasn't assaulting Johnson.
I was referencing "my" situation since Will was implying a sense of "guilt"
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Old 11-30-2010, 10:39 AM   #40
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Re: andre johnson will not take any of your crap sir

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"getting away" assumes I would be guilty. This assumption is not correct. It was Jr. High (football would be HS). This ***** foot attitude you have about everything may work in a perfect world... it's just not feasible in every situation. I've never gone looking to "have to defend myself", but I won't put up with someone assaulting me.
I'm not trying to personally insult you, I just feel that getting into physical altercations with someone to solve a problem is something you grow out of. I'm not ***** footing around, I just got old. You rarely solve any problem by punching someone, it just makes you feel better (provided you win the fight). Do you think Finnegan is suddenly going to be a respectable player when they meet again in a couple of weeks? Hell no, I bet he is even MORE antagonistic because he knows AJ can't handle it.

You were "guilty" otherwise the principle wouldn't have had to talk to you about it, you just got away with it for the same reason that Johnson did. That doesn't mean it was right.


(obvious irony in that your Jr. High bully was suspended and the pros weren't)
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Old 11-30-2010, 10:46 AM   #41
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Re: andre johnson will not take any of your crap sir

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I'm not trying to personally insult you, I just feel that getting into physical altercations with someone to solve a problem is something you grow out of. I'm not ***** footing around, I just got old. You rarely solve any problem by punching someone, it just makes you feel better (provided you win the fight). Do you think Finnegan is suddenly going to be a respectable player when they meet again in a couple of weeks? Hell no, I bet he is even MORE antagonistic because he knows AJ can't handle it.

You were "guilty" otherwise the principle wouldn't have had to talk to you about it, you just got away with it for the same reason that Johnson did. That doesn't mean it was right.


(obvious irony in that your Jr. High bully was suspended and the pros weren't)
I wish you had asked about the specifics in the situation before you jumped to conclusions. The kid spent the entire recess period physically antagonizing me followed up by punching me in the hallway on the way to class. Until that point, I hadn't retaliated in any way. After years of **** from him, with no discipline, I had had enough and threw him against the locker and told him his **** was done... mostly because before that it had just been verbal. It was obviously escalating to physical bullying which is a different beast. In case you're unfamiliar with the format in which schools operate... they're required to "follow up" with both sides in situations like this. So again, I didn't "get away" with anything.

I liked the suggestion of an analyst... she suggested suspending them both for their next game together.
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Old 11-30-2010, 10:49 AM   #42
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Re: andre johnson will not take any of your crap sir

I only jumped to conclusions because you provided no background in your example. In light of these new facts, you did nothing wrong, you retaliated to being punched by the guy. You were assaulted, you defended yourself. That isn't what happened on the football field.
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Old 11-30-2010, 10:56 AM   #43
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Re: andre johnson will not take any of your crap sir

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I only jumped to conclusions because you provided no background in your example. In light of these new facts, you did nothing wrong, you retaliated to being punched by the guy. You were assaulted, you defended yourself. That isn't what happened on the football field.
The analogy wasn't that they were "the same"... it was a retaliation to a bully. If you've never been in that position, you might not understand how it feels to have your blood boiling and keeping it under control while those in charge do nothing. Why is it that both parties receive the same penalty? Why shouldn't the instigator receive a harsher penalty? Especially when they are clearly elated with the reaction they were able to get... I'm not saying they shouldn't be able to control it, indeed having a "fuse" is nice. I'd like to think everyone has a limit before that fuse is gone.
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:05 AM   #44
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Re: andre johnson will not take any of your crap sir

These guys are adults. These guys are not in JR High
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:08 AM   #45
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Re: andre johnson will not take any of your crap sir

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These guys are adults. These guys are not in JR High
But he started it!!!! He's touching me!!!! He's on my side of the line!!!! Mommy!!!!!
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:12 AM   #46
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Re: andre johnson will not take any of your crap sir

i saw this article on espn and they make a good point on johnson not being suspended. this is only the second time the league has ever looked at him for bad behaviour, and has besides for this been a model citizen, so with the way goodell normally does things its in line
also the fact that he didnt get suspended for the thursday night game is very suspect bc since when have ppl not watched a game bc one player is gone. hell im sure a ton of ppl watched the monday night game and that was the biggest pile of horse dung of a game ive ever seen in prime time lol
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:17 AM   #47
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Re: andre johnson will not take any of your crap sir

Finnegan was instigating this reaction because its the best way for him to cover the guy. Finnegan is an an average pass defender trying to stop an outstanding receiver. Getting in his head and off his game is the best weapon he has, perhaps getting him to drop the game winner like Steve Johnson did. Both of them getting ejected also favors Finnegan because he is much easier to replace than Andre Johnson. It might not be the most "sportsmanlike" playstyle but it obviously worked for him, which is why he was so happy about it. The angrier AJ got, the more Finnegan knew he was breaking his concentration.

I really understand where you are coming from, I really do. I just don't agree with resorting to violence the way AJ did. It doesn't solve anything. It made him look bad, it made the league look bad, it made all these fines for incidental helmet to helmet hits look even more retarded. What he did was completely outside the bounds of playing football. Everyone has a fuse, but not everyone explodes into a nuclear fireball when it burns out. He should have handled it better, but he handled it in probably the worst possible way and I just think that deserves a harsh penalty to send a message to the players.
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:20 AM   #48
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Re: andre johnson will not take any of your crap sir

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These guys are adults. These guys are not in JR High
Also not the analogy. I'll be done replying in this thread as I've stated my point multiple times. No one is arguing for football players ripping off helmets and dealing with things their own way. No one is arguing that what happened was "good". It was about whether the punishment fit the issue, which requires an understanding of the context behind the issue, not just "what happened". A court of law looks at all of this as well for those arguing from a legal stand point. In cases where appropriate, they reduce sentencing just like the NFL did here.

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Finnegan was instigating this reaction because its the best way for him to cover the guy. Finnegan is an an average pass defender trying to stop an outstanding receiver. Getting in his head and off his game is the best weapon he has, perhaps getting him to drop the game winner like Steve Johnson did. Both of them getting ejected also favors Finnegan because he is much easier to replace than Andre Johnson. It might not be the most "sportsmanlike" playstyle but it obviously worked for him, which is why he was so happy about it. The angrier AJ got, the more Finnegan knew he was breaking his concentration.
So "anything goes" if it helps you win? How does "getting in his head" and being happy about getting the other person ejected to make you not have to cover him send a positive message? Step up to the plate, do your job inside the rules. If he's significantly better than you, it's your coach's job to give you help so the man is covered.

By that means, is it appropriate for a player to take a tire iron to Tom Brady to help them win as long as he is suspended (obviously a dramatic example with legal ramifications)? Where do you draw the line? The ends justify the means is hardly defensible.
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:28 AM   #49
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Re: andre johnson will not take any of your crap sir

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Also not the analogy. I'll be done replying in this thread as I've stated my point multiple times. No one is arguing for football players ripping off helmets and dealing with things their own way. No one is arguing that what happened was "good". It was about whether the punishment fit the issue, which requires an understanding of the context behind the issue, not just "what happened". A court of law looks at all of this as well for those arguing from a legal stand point. In cases where appropriate, they reduce sentencing just like the NFL did here.


So "anything goes" if it helps you win? By that means, is it appropriate for a player to take a tire iron to Tom Brady to help them win as long as he is suspended? Where do you draw the line? The ends justify the means is hardly defensible.
Even courts of law have mandatory sentencing rules for some crimes, regardless of how "in the right" the defendant is.

I never said "anything goes" but talking trash and getting physical with a guy is not the same thing assault with a deadly weapon in any case.

I was saying that antagonizing AJ to the point of him throwing punches is a net win for the Titans because he is a better player being removed from their team. It probably wasn't the intent of Finnegan to get punched in the head, but I can see why he would think it was a good thing after it happened.
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:40 AM   #50
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Re: andre johnson will not take any of your crap sir

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Even courts of law have mandatory sentencing rules for some crimes, regardless of how "in the right" the defendant is.

I never said "anything goes" but talking trash and getting physical with a guy is not the same thing assault with a deadly weapon in any case.

I was saying that antagonizing AJ to the point of him throwing punches is a net win for the Titans because he is a better player being removed from their team. It probably wasn't the intent of Finnegan to get punched in the head, but I can see why he would think it was a good thing after it happened.
I realize I said I was done, but you made an interesting point. Do you see "charging the mound" after a player has been hit multiple times by a pitcher as appropriate? Legally, a baseball used in this manner is considered a weapon.
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:43 AM   #51
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Re: andre johnson will not take any of your crap sir

Sources with knowledge of the situation told NFL Network insider Jason La Canfora on Friday that the New York Giants running back has been fined $20,000 for unsportsmanlike conduct toward fans, his second such violation this year.

After the conclusion of pregame warmups before the Giants' Week 11 showdown against the Philadelphia Eagles, Jacobs was observed by an NFL security representative making obscene gestures and yelling obscenities toward fans in the stands at Lincoln Financial Field.

In a letter to Jacobs, NFL executive vice president of football operations Ray Anderson said the conduct was "unprofessional and unbecoming as an NFL player" and noted that "repeated violations will result in increased disciplinary action, which may include suspension for conduct detrimental to the league."


This here is my entire point. The NFL has equated fist fighting on the field during the game with flipping the bird and yelling bad words. They think that yelling is as unprofessional as punching people as long as it threatens their bottom line. It's a ****ing joke.
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:43 AM   #52
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Re: andre johnson will not take any of your crap sir

Nothing Finnegan did warranted that response from an adult. With that said, I wish Johnson would have landed 3-4 more solid blows on that piece of ****.
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:49 AM   #53
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Re: andre johnson will not take any of your crap sir

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I realize I said I was done, but you made an interesting point. Do you see "charging the mound" after a player has been hit multiple times by a pitcher as appropriate? Legally, a baseball used in this manner is considered a weapon.
I guess it depends on if you carry the bat with you :V

As far as I know the MLB deals harsh fines and suspensions for charging the mound. That being said, I don't really have a problem with a guy charging the mound and yelling at a pitcher, but if he goes out and starts beating the **** out of the pitcher he probably needs a lengthy suspension and a huge fine. Charging the mound is usually just a dramatic display in order to get your point across to the pitcher and I'm fine with that.

Umpires regularly warn and eject pitchers for beaning batters as well when they deem it intentional. The MLB has also fined and suspended pitchers for beaning batters.
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Old 11-30-2010, 12:00 PM   #54
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Re: andre johnson will not take any of your crap sir

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I guess it depends on if you carry the bat with you :V

As far as I know the MLB deals harsh fines and suspensions for charging the mound. That being said, I don't really have a problem with a guy charging the mound and yelling at a pitcher, but if he goes out and starts beating the **** out of the pitcher he probably needs a lengthy suspension and a huge fine. Charging the mound is usually just a dramatic display in order to get your point across to the pitcher and I'm fine with that.

Umpires regularly warn and eject pitchers for beaning batters as well when they deem it intentional. The MLB has also fined and suspended pitchers for beaning batters.
Just as officials in the NFL are supposed to "deal" with players that are using their bodies as weapons to inflict damage in an unsafe way. So what if an umpire doesn't "deal" with a pitcher that routinely beans batters? In essence the point I tried making was that this isn't an isolated event. While it's not "good" behavior (certainly), some understanding of the full context should make it easier to see how we arrived at this point.

I'm also not saying the fine was fair, I think a stupidly high fine for both would've been better than a drop in the bucket fine. I think a better statement would've been to suspend them from the first half of their next game together, give them each $150k fine and immediate ejection upon any ****ty behavior in their next game.

It would also be nice to see some sort of reduced tolerance for players that routinely behave this way.
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Old 11-30-2010, 12:16 PM   #55
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Re: andre johnson will not take any of your crap sir

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Exactly...trash talking...sure...hands to the face...sure...15 yard penalty...but to break out into a game of Mike Tyson's Punchout....over reaction.
He should have tried to keep him doing stuff to get more and more penalty's off him instead of beating him in the head... but I guess he got tired of taking it as everyone has their limit...
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Old 11-30-2010, 11:52 PM   #56
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Re: andre johnson will not take any of your crap sir

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As much as I hate Finnegan he wasn't assaulting Johnson.
i love finnegan lol
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Old 12-01-2010, 03:51 AM   #57
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Re: andre johnson will not take any of your crap sir

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i love finnegan lol
That doesn't surprise me
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:49 PM   #58
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Re: andre johnson will not take any of your crap sir

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That doesn't surprise me
HA
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