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Old 04-09-2011, 04:42 PM   #106
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Let me make it clear, I am NOT PRO-WAR but I'm against any country that causes suffering and death to it's people. While it would be great if we could all live on this planet in peace, with all the maniacs and religious nut jobs out there, I think that dream is just that, a dream. I don't think we should turn our heads to people who are truly suffering. War is bloody, no doubt about it, but in some cases necessary. We wouldn't be the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA if we didn't have OUR OWN wars both foreign and domestic. Can we truly call ourselves human beings if we can just stand by and watch other human beings being slaughtered or worse? Yes, there are things worse than death and some of these people are living it.
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Old 04-09-2011, 04:58 PM   #107
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Re: Government Shutdown

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Originally Posted by 11SHELBYGT500 View Post
Let me make it clear, I am NOT PRO-WAR but I'm against any country that causes suffering and death to it's people. While it would be great if we could all live on this planet in peace, with all the maniacs and religious nut jobs out there, I think that dream is just that, a dream. I don't think we should turn our heads to people who are truly suffering. War is bloody, no doubt about it, but in some cases necessary. We wouldn't be the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA if we didn't have OUR OWN wars both foreign and domestic. Can we truly call ourselves human beings if we can just stand by and watch other human beings being slaughtered or worse? Yes, there are things worse than death and some of these people are living it.
You say all these things about helping other people but you offer no solutions. I asked you if we should invade Syria and I get no reply. What about North Korea? North Korea is one of the worst countries in the world to live in.

All of these countries had these problems before we went into Iraq and actually posed a greater threat to our national security than Iraq did.

While you may care about the world and others the United States government doesn't give a damn. The United States did not go to war with Iraq to save the people of Iraq. It went there for the reasons I already stated in this thread.

You are excusing the Iraq war over reasons that we didn't even go into Iraq for!
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Old 04-09-2011, 06:02 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Brent

You say all these things about helping other people but you offer no solutions. I asked you if we should invade Syria and I get no reply. What about North Korea? North Korea is one of the worst countries in the world to live in.

All of these countries had these problems before we went into Iraq and actually posed a greater threat to our national security than Iraq did.

While you may care about the world and others the United States government doesn't give a damn. The United States did not go to war with Iraq to save the people of Iraq. It went there for the reasons I already stated in this thread.

You are excusing the Iraq war over reasons that we didn't even go into Iraq for!
1. The media is not exactly a credible source and in my very real experience do not report honestly.

2. We are there now...if we leave the insurgency grows, more terrorist attacks and more people dead on our own soil.

I am not arguing with you but I've been there and seen it...if we do nothing then the life we enjoy will not exist...deal in the present, learn from the past, do something for the future...
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Old 04-09-2011, 06:16 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Pete08GT

1. The media is not exactly a credible source and in my very real experience do not report honestly.

2. We are there now...if we leave the insurgency grows, more terrorist attacks and more people dead on our own soil.

I am not arguing with you but I've been there and seen it...if we do nothing then the life we enjoy will not exist...deal in the present, learn from the past, do something for the future...
Well where do you draw the line. It seems like the only nations that your government are seeing fit to help are the ones that oil flows in. As far as Iraq the people were better off before the invasion. Now its a total write off. Hussein may have been a dictator but his people were in better shape then now. And lybia is just finishing up old business. I just think that if the American government is going to go out and cure the injustices of the world they should keep the criteria the same. Not just the ones with oil.
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Old 04-09-2011, 07:02 PM   #110
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Re: Government Shutdown

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1. The media is not exactly a credible source and in my very real experience do not report honestly.
The government is not exactly a credible source either.

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We are there now...if we leave the insurgency grows, more terrorist attacks and more people dead on our own soil.
It is funny how you can predict the future like that. Maybe they will just walk into the country this time, since America is so concerned about terrorists we just leave our border wide open. Maybe we should stop starting wars in the name of National Defense and actually do something productive that will aide in defending our country.

Also, the "If we leave now" argument can only be made because we screwed up going in there in the first place. I guess we will just stay there, right? Because as soon as we leave, be it 6 months from now or 6 years from now, Iraq will just go back to being the ****ty corrupt country it was before.

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if we do nothing then the life we enjoy will not exist...
This is absurd and based on nothing but fear mongering. There is no evidence to say that if we did not invade Iraq this country would fall.
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Old 04-09-2011, 07:02 PM   #111
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Re: Government Shutdown

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Well where do you draw the line. It seems like the only nations that your government are seeing fit to help are the ones that oil flows in. As far as Iraq the people were better off before the invasion. Now its a total write off. Hussein may have been a dictator but his people were in better shape then now. And lybia is just finishing up old business. I just think that if the American government is going to go out and cure the injustices of the world they should keep the criteria the same. Not just the ones with oil.
This.
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Old 04-09-2011, 07:31 PM   #112
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Re: Government Shutdown

People will always have different opinions on everything. But the flamboyant use of drive by media talking points, the groupies who have done little (no) thinking for themselves, and the actual substance of the arguments is astonishing. All of that is just aside from the idea that you're arguing with the people who have been been to and experienced these places while you sit at home and do nothing more to change what you see wrong than ditto catch phrases on a internet forum or "+1" your post count. You'll notice there is one distinct difference between those arguing on one side and those on the other...

Believe in WHATEVER you want. Seriously. But then do something about what you see wrong. All I see when I look around me (not just here) is people who are perfectly content to take what our country has to give while doing NOTHING requiring any sort of effort to change the problems they incessantly complain about.

I initially joined because I needed a "skill" and was tired of going to college. Since I've been in, and I've seen some of the things I've seen, I've had a 180* change of heart. So now, I'll stay in so I can give back to a country that does more for its people and others than any other in the world, and one that only 1 in 20 people are lucky enough to be citizens of. Yet in spite of what it does, that people who have never lived anywhere else can even fathom being without, all American citizens do is DEMAND MORE. And God forbid if we give up a few comforts for the person who has just as many human rights as us but was unfortunate enough to be one of the other 19. We don't even make sacrifices for ourselves, it's no wonder why all of you think the way you do. You say you do care, yet you aren't willing to give ANY thing up for them.

How well off do you think Japan and Germany were just a handful of years after their war? Right about where Iraq is now. Look at them now. That's what America has done for them. Can we go to every country out there under oppression? No. Yet the argument that we only invaded some for what we could get out of them should be right up y'alls alley...

If any of you are as passionate about the things you say you are or pretend to be, then get off your *** and make a sacrifice or two. If you have, then keep doing it. If you are the average American, then don't even bother lying, you haven't done **** for what you believe in. Done with this.
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Old 04-09-2011, 07:52 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent

The government is not exactly a credible source either.

It is funny how you can predict the future like that. Maybe they will just walk into the country this time, since America is so concerned about terrorists we just leave our border wide open. Maybe we should stop starting wars in the name of National Defense and actually do something productive that will aide in defending our country.

Also, the "If we leave now" argument can only be made because we screwed up going in there in the first place. I guess we will just stay there, right? Because as soon as we leave, be it 6 months from now or 6 years from now, Iraq will just go back to being the ****ty corrupt country it was before.

This is absurd and based on nothing but fear mongering. There is no evidence to say that if we did not invade Iraq this country would fall.
Very well put Brent.
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Old 04-09-2011, 07:57 PM   #114
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Re: Government Shutdown

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Originally Posted by DarkShadow View Post
People will always have different opinions on everything. But the flamboyant use of drive by media talking points, the groupies who have done little (no) thinking for themselves, and the actual substance of the arguments is astonishing. All of that is just aside from the idea that you're arguing with the people who have been been to and experienced these places while you sit at home and do nothing more to change what you see wrong than ditto catch phrases on a internet forum or "+1" your post count. You'll notice there is one distinct difference between those arguing on one side and those on the other...
You remember how USAF asked you if you had been deployed yet and you responded with "Oh, we are going to play this game"?

Well, you are playing that game now. You have been deployed twice you said. What in those two deployments did you find that made you believe that Iraq posed a national security risk to this country?

The distinct difference is I am arguing facts. Fact is that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction that were a threat to this country. Fact is that Iraq had as much connection to 9/11 as Syria, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia did.

You are arguing that people that do not serve in the military know nothing about foreign policy, which is insulting and arrogant.

It is attitudes such as yours that are detrimental to this countries foreign policy and allow us to be in the mess we are in now.

Quote:
Believe in WHATEVER you want. Seriously. But then do something about what you see wrong. All I see when I look around me (not just here) is people who are perfectly content to take what our country has to give while doing NOTHING requiring any sort of effort to change the problems they incessantly complain about.
I don't know what you expect everyone with an opinion that differs from yours to do? Run for congress? You know that isn't possible, unless you have deep pockets, which I don't and many other Americans don't since unemployment is at 9.2%. Vote? Already do. Voice my opinion to people such as you, who disagree with me? Doing that. Donate to causes I support? I do that.

I've been to more rallies than most Americans have in their life over the past two years. I am doing my part.

Quote:
I initially joined because I needed a "skill" and was tired of going to college. Since I've been in, and I've seen some of the things I've seen, I've had a 180* change of heart. So now, I'll stay in so I can give back to a country that does more for its people and others than any other in the world, and one that only 1 in 20 people are lucky enough to be citizens of. Yet in spite of what it does, that people who have never lived anywhere else can even fathom being without, all American citizens do is DEMAND MORE.
We demand accountability for our politicians and demand that our government not start wars against a country that is not a threat to our national security.

Quote:
And God forbid if we give up a few comforts for the person who has just as many human rights as us but was unfortunate enough to be one of the other 19. We don't even make sacrifices for ourselves, it's no wonder why all of you think the way you do. You say you do care, yet you aren't willing to give ANY thing up for them.
You are absolutely right. I am not giving up my rights as an American citizen because politicians want to start wars in the Middle East against countries that pose no threat to our national security. If this countries politicians want to save people they can start in countries that are not bathing in oil. Then I might give some legitimacy to our actions.

Quote:
How well off do you think Japan and Germany were just a handful of years after their war? Right about where Iraq is now. Look at them now.

That's what America has done for them. Can we go to every country out there under oppression? No. Yet the argument that we only invaded some for what we could get out of them should be right up y'alls alley...
Germany and Japan are not even comparable. The culture, religion and attitude of their people allowed for them to progress. This is not the case in the Middle East.
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Old 04-09-2011, 08:15 PM   #115
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It's like your opinion is how it is and it's not. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and mine is that people are brain washed into this **** that they think is going to make our country better. I understand that they are suffering and it's not that I don't feel for them. I do. But it's their problem. If you want to help, more power to you but it's not my problem. I don't want to be in battle. I'm not saying it's pointless I guess but needless, definitely. America doesn't need to play superman but the government seems to want to. What's wrong with all of these people put into power that have the thought process of these crazy ideas. I have nothing personal against the American soldier (unless they are arrogant ********), but I do have a problem with the people in power that are sending you guys out.
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Old 04-09-2011, 09:40 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent

You remember how USAF asked you if you had been deployed yet and you responded with "Oh, we are going to play this game"?

Well, you are playing that game now. You have been deployed twice you said. What in those two deployments did you find that made you believe that Iraq posed a national security risk to this country?

The distinct difference is I am arguing facts. Fact is that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction that were a threat to this country. Fact is that Iraq had as much connection to 9/11 as Syria, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia did.

You are arguing that people that do not serve in the military know nothing about foreign policy, which is insulting and arrogant.

It is attitudes such as yours that are detrimental to this countries foreign policy and allow us to be in the mess we are in now.

I don't know what you expect everyone with an opinion that differs from yours to do? Run for congress? You know that isn't possible, unless you have deep pockets, which I don't and many other Americans don't since unemployment is at 9.2%. Vote? Already do. Voice my opinion to people such as you, who disagree with me? Doing that. Donate to causes I support? I do that.

I've been to more rallies than most Americans have in their life over the past two years. I am doing my part.

We demand accountability for our politicians and demand that our government not start wars against a country that is not a threat to our national security.

You are absolutely right. I am not giving up my rights as an American citizen because politicians want to start wars in the Middle East against countries that pose no threat to our national security. If this countries politicians want to save people they can start in countries that are not bathing in oil. Then I might give some legitimacy to our actions.

Germany and Japan are not even comparable. The culture, religion and attitude of their people allowed for them to progress. This is not the case in the Middle East.
The bathing in oil part is so true. It's a protection of the supply of our vital need for oil. I just think to myself how many rebels in lybia died before a coalition of planes plane went out there and said that's it. Now Syria is going beserk and there are chopping down hundreds of people down with machetes. Where are we,why aren't we there yet. I say **** it. Let them deal out their problems then once the dust settles you can maintain a good trading relationship. Makes me sick. I say if we go in there we take it over,form the new government,get the place on track to be self sustaining after say 100 years then hand it back over to the people lead on their town. Happily ever after
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Old 04-10-2011, 07:09 PM   #117
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North Korea had depleted their natural resources by mining uranium and selling it to countries with an interest in developing nuclear weapons. We are involved In north Korea...both directly and indirectly.
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