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Old 04-07-2011, 06:03 PM   #1
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Thumbs down Government Shutdown

Sooooo if the government does shut down today they may halt ALL military pay except for the civilian contractors...so if I don't get paid expect to see a lot more of me on here bc I wont be doing any missions and going on any patrols...not for free...I mean I did sign up to support my country and all but I'm not putting my life at risk for free. ESP if they aren't even gonna pay my family if something happens to me. Sorry just a little pissed off and needed to vent. But hopefully with the plan at least military in combat zones will still get paid. We shall find out later today.
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Old 04-07-2011, 06:05 PM   #2
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They better!! sorry to hear that man.
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Old 04-07-2011, 06:11 PM   #3
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Re: Government Shutdown

Politicians, ****ing **** up since 1776.
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Old 04-07-2011, 06:12 PM   #4
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Love my union. Hahaha
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Old 04-07-2011, 06:12 PM   #5
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Re: Government Shutdown

Its ok. Just really aggravated. Hopefully I'm *****ing for no reason and it doesn't happen. I know in 1995 (the last government shutdown) they paid military but a lot of reports are saying this time will be different. They say they will back pay us when they finally pay us but they don't realize ppl do still have families to support.
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Old 04-07-2011, 06:13 PM   #6
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Thankfully the contractors still get paid.
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Old 04-07-2011, 06:14 PM   #7
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Re: Government Shutdown

yeah but contractors get to sit on the fob all day. not going out and getting shot at. and if you say IDF is getting shot at then you've never been shot at before lol. I'm going to the gym to try and get rid of some of my rage. I'll check in later. Hopefully ya'll have a better night than I did
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Old 04-07-2011, 06:15 PM   #8
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Thankfully the contractors still get paid.
Probably union jobs. Hehehe
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Old 04-07-2011, 06:50 PM   #9
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Politicians, ****ing **** up since 1776.
True that
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Old 04-07-2011, 06:52 PM   #10
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Re: Government Shutdown

No surprise there...hell will truly freeze over before politicians actually pass anything or do anything in the people's interest.
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Old 04-07-2011, 07:44 PM   #11
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Re: Government Shutdown

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Probably union jobs. Hehehe
lol maybe. Normally the government pays the contracting company and the company pays the contractors but there are jobs that the government actually pays direct. Like we have a civilian that runs our stan/eval program and our simulator. Prob what I'll do if I don't re enlist lol. The way things are going job security isn't really a reason anymore haha
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Old 04-07-2011, 07:56 PM   #12
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Re: Government Shutdown

Well, a couple things here:

There is a bill in the works that will extend military pay until September of this year. That being said, Obama has threatened to veto it. This is more than likely an empty threat aimed at forcing the Republicans backing the bill to do one of two things: Conceed to across the aisle demands on the budget, or look like Satan for not conceeding and being "responsible" for the military not getting paid.

There are a couple reasons why I find it unlikely we wont get paid:

There are a lot of people who like spouting the nonsensical "I don't support the war, but I support our troops" right now. These people, coupled with the following amount to:

Votes.

I'm not in the mood to Google the number of people in the Armed Forces to include, Guard/Reserves/Coast Guard/etc so I'll take a wild guess of "somewhere" in the millions. This, should it happen, will somehow be blamed dominantly on one political side. That political side will face a huge number of lost votes when you then bring in not just the military members but there families, friends, vets, DoD contractors who see what the members have to deal with while they didn't get paid, etc.

Some other things, I'm sure I don't necessarily need to say this but: getting paid or not, we don't have the option of "No pay, no work". We WILL be back paid should this happen. For those that aren't financially stable enough to weather the lack of a check, they probably aren't adhering to the, what is it...3 months of savings we are supposed to have set aside? It's in nearly every PCS briefing, pre-deployment briefing, etc you get. Does it suck you'd have to use it for this reason? Sure. Additionally, most services allow for interest free loans specifically for their service members. Pretty sure this type of situation will qualify.

Personal opinion here: I have savings, so short term, big deal. If anyone ever expected the politicians to not get paid over us, I don't think they really understand how the political/military relationship and infrastructure works. I'm not in this for the money. So long as I can get what I need, with a few extras here and there, that's all I ask - and that's what we'll get whether it be now or in back pay. I've had to go longer than this without pay because of Military Finance **** ups...
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Old 04-07-2011, 07:58 PM   #13
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Re: Government Shutdown

No one wants to hear what I have to say about unions.
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Old 04-07-2011, 07:59 PM   #14
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Re: Government Shutdown

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Probably union jobs. Hehehe
Not mine.
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:04 PM   #15
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Re: Government Shutdown

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There are a lot of people who like spouting the nonsensical "I don't support the war, but I support our troops" right now.
Do you not believe in people saying that?

Also, the big reason Obama doesn't want to allow the current bill is because it is absurd. The bill will cut 12 billion dollars over 7 days! That would be the equivalent of stripping 640 billion dollars out of the full budget.

You may agree or disagree with what is being cut, but there is no reason to cut that 12 billion in the 7 day budget if your goal is to keep the government working.

Both sides are trying to work this to make the other look bad. The Republicans are trying to get this current 7 day bill passed in the House knowing that the Democrats will shoot it down in the Senate, making them the ones that shut the budget down.

Our two party system, at work.
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:04 PM   #16
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Re: Government Shutdown

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No one wants to hear what I have to say about unions.
Don't be scared too.
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:07 PM   #17
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Re: Government Shutdown

I've got well enough saved up. It just pisses me off thats even a thought for some people on how to fix certain problems by creating another. Short term wouldn't hurt me but if we didn't get paid for more than about 4 months my savings would be shot. But you have to consider E-3's who just moved out of dorms or if you're like my career field and on army post they don't give you a dorm and you are automatically moved off post. So they have no way of paying for somewhere to live. Granted no NCO or Senior NCO would let some young airmen live on the streets lol. But it puts a burden on everyone. Whether it gets passed or not I'm just aggravated thats even a consideration
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:08 PM   #18
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Re: Government Shutdown

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Originally Posted by Brent View Post
Do you not believe in people saying that?
Nope.

Quote:
Also, the big reason Obama doesn't want to allow the current bill is because it is absurd. The bill will cut 12 billion dollars over 7 days! That would be the equivalent of stripping 640 billion dollars out of the full budget.

You may agree or disagree with what is being cut, but there is no reason to cut that 12 billion in the 7 day budget if your goal is to keep the government working.

Both sides are trying to work this to make the other look bad. The Republicans are trying to get this current 7 day bill passed in the House knowing that the Democrats will shoot it down in the Senate, making them the ones that shut the budget down.

Our two party system, at work.
Absolutely right.
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:08 PM   #19
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Re: Government Shutdown

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Not here lol
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:09 PM   #20
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Re: Government Shutdown

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Nope.
Well what about it do you not like? I can see possibly two things. One is you don't believe people can be against the war and still support troops and the second is you shouldn't have to say you support the troops because it should be a given.
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:11 PM   #21
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Re: Government Shutdown

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Originally Posted by USAF_stang View Post
I've got well enough saved up. It just pisses me off thats even a thought for some people on how to fix certain problems by creating another. Short term wouldn't hurt me but if we didn't get paid for more than about 4 months my savings would be shot. But you have to consider E-3's who just moved out of dorms or if you're like my career field and on army post they don't give you a dorm and you are automatically moved off post. So they have no way of paying for somewhere to live. Granted no NCO or Senior NCO would let some young airmen live on the streets lol. But it buts a burden on everyone. Whether it gets passed or not I'm just aggravated thats even a consideration
That's where our interest free loans come in. Those E-3's who just moved out had all that time in the dorms with no "living" bills to save up. I still have a large part of my savings from back then. The ones who were never in dorms are still making as much BAS/BAH as an E-4 gets when they move out with negligibly less base pay.
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:16 PM   #22
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Re: Government Shutdown

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That's where our interest free loans come in. Those E-3's who just moved out had all that time in the dorms with no "living" bills to save up. I still have a large part of my savings from back then. The ones who were never in dorms are still making as much BAS/BAH as an E-4 gets when they move out with negligibly less base pay.
What I'm saying is say an A1C gets to my unit tomorrow. He will never live in a dorm. This bill gets passed and he doesn't get paid for 3 months. He has all of 1500 saved up which is what he prob made during tech school. That will get him one month payment on a cheap apartment plus the down payment and about 200$ for other things. If he doesn't get paid for 3 months he has to take a loan. The fact that he has to take out a loan because he got put in a ****ty situation isn't right to do to anyone. I realize there are interest free loans. I've got amazing credit and applied for one for 10k to try and help build more credit and got denied. More than likely he's either young and has no credit or he's older and part of the reason he joined is because he needs the money. Putting people in that situation is a ****ty thing to do.
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:22 PM   #23
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You just had to huh Brent? I know I asked for it. Hahaha
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:24 PM   #24
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Re: Government Shutdown

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Well what about it do you not like? I can see possibly two things. One is you don't believe people can be against the war and still support troops and the second is you shouldn't have to say you support the troops because it should be a given.
People who say that are detestably (to me) uninformed on what actually happened over the course of our (up until recently) two front war.

To get straight to one of the main points, rather than spend the next hour laying out all the small ones to build up to overall grand scheme that most people probably wont take the time to read:

Iraq: G.W. could have said we went there to find the Easter bunny. If it still meant we removed from power a genocidal maniac, who refused to adhere to his peace treaty from over a decade prior, then we did more, FOR more people, for the Middle East than ANY other country has or probably ever will.

Afghanistan: Obviously, our first enraged response to 9/11. The Taliban regime was voluntarily harboring world criminals that were responsible for the deaths of thousands...and not just those who died on that day. There, we also removed an evil blight of a "government". A despicable entity, part of a union with al Qaeda, that preys on the weak, the poor, the uneducated, and the people looking for a place to belong. Then, the organizations send them off to die "willingly" for a cause that cares nothing for them - only their own personal, twisted end goals.

Why did we have to do it? Because we could. If you see someone getting beaten and raped on the street, you'll help them. I believe we do have plenty of problems at home we need to address. We don't need to be the world police (don't get me started on Libya). BUT, in these situations, we had the power to make a difference and the will to do so.

None of this is spin. If the people who try to straddle the fence are truly aware of these points, and can still say "I support the troops, but I don't support the war", I, for one, don't need their "support".
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:26 PM   #25
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Re: Government Shutdown

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Originally Posted by USAF_stang View Post
What I'm saying is say an A1C gets to my unit tomorrow. He will never live in a dorm. This bill gets passed and he doesn't get paid for 3 months. He has all of 1500 saved up which is what he prob made during tech school. That will get him one month payment on a cheap apartment plus the down payment and about 200$ off of. If he doesn't get paid for 3 months he has to take a loan. The fact that he has to take out a loan because he got put in a ****ty situation isn't right to do to anyone. I realize there are interest free loans. I've got amazing credit and applied for one for 10k to try and help build more credit and get denied. More than likely he's either young and has no credit or he's older and part of the reason he joined is because he needs the money. Putting people in that situation is a ****ty thing to do.
No one said it isn't. I don't think anyone said *****ing about it is a viable alternative though. Not trying to ruffle your feathers, but this had been a big groan session. We volunteered to make sacrifices for our country, such as it is. Feeling betrayed by the country you swore to isn't fair either. There are good, great, people out there that depend on us.
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:30 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkShadow

People who say that are detestably (to me) uninformed on what actually happened over the course of our (up until recently) two front war.

To get straight to one of the main points, rather than spend the next hour laying out all the small ones to build up to overall grand scheme that most people probably wont take the time to read:

Iraq: G.W. could have said we went there to find the Easter bunny. If it still meant we removed from power a genocidal maniac, who refused to adhere to his peace treaty from over a decade prior, then we did more, FOR more people, for the Middle East than ANY other country has or probably ever will.

Afghanistan: Obviously, our first enraged response to 9/11. The Taliban regime was voluntarily harboring world criminals that were responsible for the deaths of thousands...and not just those who died on that day. There, we also removed an evil blight of a "government". A despicable entity, part of a union with al Qaeda, that preys on the weak, the poor, the uneducated, and the people looking for a place to belong. Then, the organizations send them off to die "willingly" for a cause that cares nothing for them - only their own personal, twisted end goals.

Why did we have to do it? Because we could. If you see someone getting beaten and raped on the street, you'll help them. I believe we do have plenty of problems at home we need to address. We don't need to be the world police (don't get me started on Libya). BUT, in these situations, we had the power to make a difference and the will to do so.

None of this is spin. If the people who try to straddle the fence are truly aware of these points, and can still say "I support the troops, but I don't support the war", I, for one, don't need their "support".
Awesome post!
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:32 PM   #27
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Re: Government Shutdown

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No one said it isn't. I don't think anyone said *****ing about it is a viable alternative though. Not trying to ruffle your feathers, but this had been a big groan session. We volunteered to make sacrifices for our country, such as it is. Feeling betrayed by the country you swore to isn't fair either. There are good, great, people out there that depend on us.
*****ing about is better than laying down my weapon. Yes I said I wouldn't work but thats me being pissed off and everyone will. This thread is to voice my opinion and thats what I did. No offense but have you ever been deployed? and Qatar doesn't count lol. Not saying you make any less of a sacrifice either. But its a lot different sitting out on a mtn for two weeks taking fire every other day and now you have to worry about money issues. Yes I did sign a contract and yes I will be fine. Its other people that wont be that are sitting on that mountain next to me that bothers me.
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:34 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by DarkShadow
Well, a couple things here:

There is a bill in the works that will extend military pay until September of this year. That being said, Obama has threatened to veto it. This is more than likely an empty threat aimed at forcing the Republicans backing the bill to do one of two things: Conceed to across the aisle demands on the budget, or look like Satan for not conceeding and being "responsible" for the military not getting paid.

There are a couple reasons why I find it unlikely we wont get paid:

There are a lot of people who like spouting the nonsensical "I don't support the war, but I support our troops" right now. These people, coupled with the following amount to:

Votes.

I'm not in the mood to Google the number of people in the Armed Forces to include, Guard/Reserves/Coast Guard/etc so I'll take a wild guess of "somewhere" in the millions. This, should it happen, will somehow be blamed dominantly on one political side. That political side will face a huge number of lost votes when you then bring in not just the military members but there families, friends, vets, DoD contractors who see what the members have to deal with while they didn't get paid, etc.

Some other things, I'm sure I don't necessarily need to say this but: getting paid or not, we don't have the option of "No pay, no work". We WILL be back paid should this happen. For those that aren't financially stable enough to weather the lack of a check, they probably aren't adhering to the, what is it...3 months of savings we are supposed to have set aside? It's in nearly every PCS briefing, pre-deployment briefing, etc you get. Does it suck you'd have to use it for this reason? Sure. Additionally, most services allow for interest free loans specifically for their service members. Pretty sure this type of situation will qualify.

Personal opinion here: I have savings, so short term, big deal. If anyone ever expected the politicians to not get paid over us, I don't think they really understand how the political/military relationship and infrastructure works. I'm not in this for the money. So long as I can get what I need, with a few extras here and there, that's all I ask - and that's what we'll get whether it be now or in back pay. I've had to go longer than this without pay because of Military Finance **** ups...
BLUF...junior enlisted will need help if this happens...they don't have the funds to support themselves because they haven't been in long enough. NCOs and leaders....make sure they are taken care of. Don't let our service members down. If our politicians won't lead by example then WE WILL! Nuff said...I'm pissed...and disappointed...
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:34 PM   #29
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Re: Government Shutdown

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Originally Posted by DarkShadow View Post
People who say that are detestably (to me) uninformed on what actually happened over the course of our (up until recently) two front war.

To get straight to one of the main points, rather than spend the next hour laying out all the small ones to build up to overall grand scheme that most people probably wont take the time to read:

Iraq: G.W. could have said we went there to find the Easter bunny. If it still meant we removed from power a genocidal maniac, who refused to adhere to his peace treaty from over a decade prior, then we did more, FOR more people, for the Middle East than ANY other country has or probably ever will.
Actually we didn't do much for the Middle East, other than make Iran more powerful by removing the one major check and balance they had in the Middle East.

Secondly, Iraq posed no threat to our National security and therefore there was no constitutional power to go to war, let alone to stay at war for 8 years.

Our country spends 1 trillion dollars a year policing the world and it is driving this country into the ground. We can't pay for our infrastructure here, because we are blowing up Iraq and Afghanistan's and rebuilding theirs.

Iraq is the most ridiculous war, next to Vietnam, that this country has ever instigated.

Quote:
Afghanistan: Obviously, our first enraged response to 9/11. The Taliban regime was voluntarily harboring world criminals that were responsible for the deaths of thousands...and not just those who died on that day. There, we also removed an evil blight of a "government". A despicable entity, part of a union with al Qaeda, that preys on the weak, the poor, the uneducated, and the people looking for a place to belong. Then, the organizations send them off to die "willingly" for a cause that cares nothing for them - only their own personal, twisted end goals.

Why did we have to do it? Because we could. If you see someone getting beaten and raped on the street, you'll help them. I believe we do have plenty of problems at home we need to address. We don't need to be the world police (don't get me started on Libya). BUT, in these situations, we had the power to make a difference and the will to do so.

None of this is spin. If the people who try to straddle the fence are truly aware of these points, and can still say "I support the troops, but I don't support the war", I, for one, don't need their "support".
I don't have a problem with our initial goal with the Afghan war. I have a problem with staying there for 10 years. Hundreds of billions of dollars put into Afghanistan and we are no closer to them having a legit Government than 8 years ago.

I don't support either war, in that they still are going on. There is no excuse for it and they need to end.

We should have never, ever went into Iraq. It is not our job to take care of the Middle East. If Saudi Arabia wants to get rid of Iraq, then they can do it themselves.

I actually, have less of a problem with what is going on in Libya than what has happened over the last 8 years in Iraq.
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:37 PM   #30
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Re: Government Shutdown

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Our country spends 1 trillion dollars a year policing the world and it is driving this country into the ground. We can't pay for our infrastructure here, because we are blowing up Iraq and Afghanistan's and rebuilding theirs.
that would be partly my fault lol
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:37 PM   #31
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I've got well enough saved up. It just pisses me off thats even a thought for some people on how to fix certain problems by creating another. Short term wouldn't hurt me but if we didn't get paid for more than about 4 months my savings would be shot. But you have to consider E-3's who just moved out of dorms or if you're like my career field and on army post they don't give you a dorm and you are automatically moved off post. So they have no way of paying for somewhere to live. Granted no NCO or Senior NCO would let some young airmen live on the streets lol. But it puts a burden on everyone. Whether it gets passed or not I'm just aggravated thats even a consideration
I hear you brother...we(the senior NCOs) need to take care of business and continue to lead by example... The junior folks will be taken care of even if I have to starve...GOD...this whole thing really ticks me off!
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:38 PM   #32
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Re: Government Shutdown

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*****ing about is better than laying down my weapon. Yes I said I wouldn't work but thats me being pissed off and everyone will. This thread is to voice my opinion and thats what I did. No offense but have you ever been deployed? and Qatar doesn't count lol. Not saying you make any less of a sacrifice either. But its a lot different sitting out on a mtn for two weeks taking fire every other day and now you have to worry about money issues. Yes I did sign a contract and yes I will be fine. Its other people that wont be that are sitting on that mountain next to me that bothers me.
Oh...so we are going there? Yes, I have been. Once to Balad (Mortaritaville), Iraq and once to Khandahar, Afghanistan. Not that it makes a difference what my job is, where I've been, or what I plan to do: my desire to Retrain into TACP is strictly because I don't feel like I do enough as aircraft mx. I have gifts that would make me excel in a field like that, and I believe I'm doing my country a disservice if I don't use them since there are so few people that do have what it takes. Feel better?
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:40 PM   #33
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Re: Government Shutdown

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Originally Posted by DarkShadow View Post
Oh...so we are going there? Yes, I have been. Once to Balad (Mortaritaville), Iraq and once to Khandahar, Afghanistan. Not that it makes a difference what my job is, where I've been, or what I plan to do: my desire to Retrain into TACP is strictly because I don't feel like I do enough as aircraft mx. I have gifts that would make me excel in a field like that, and I believe I'm doing my country a disservice if I don't use them since there are so few people that do have what it takes. Feel better?
I def said "not saying you are making any less of a sacrifice". Was just stating that its a completely different feeling.
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:44 PM   #34
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Re: Government Shutdown

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Awesome post!
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Originally Posted by Brent View Post
Actually we didn't do much for the Middle East, other than make Iran more powerful by removing the one major check and balance they had in the Middle East.

Secondly, Iraq posed no threat to our National security and therefore there was no constitutional power to go to war, let alone to stay at war for 8 years.

Our country spends 1 trillion dollars a year policing the world and it is driving this country into the ground. We can't pay for our infrastructure here, because we are blowing up Iraq and Afghanistan's and rebuilding theirs.

Iraq is the most ridiculous war, next to Vietnam, that this country has ever instigated.



I don't have a problem with our initial goal with the Afghan war. I have a problem with staying there for 10 years. Hundreds of billions of dollars put into Afghanistan and we are no closer to them having a legit Government than 8 years ago.

I don't support either war, in that they still are going on. There is no excuse for it and they need to end.

We should have never, ever went into Iraq. It is not our job to take care of the Middle East. If Saudi Arabia wants to get rid of Iraq, then they can do it themselves.

I actually, have less of a problem with what is going on in Libya than what has happened over the last 8 years in Iraq.
More Awesome and Sensical Post!
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:45 PM   #35
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Re: Government Shutdown

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent View Post
Actually we didn't do much for the Middle East, other than make Iran more powerful by removing the one major check and balance they had in the Middle East.

Secondly, Iraq posed no threat to our National security and therefore there was no constitutional power to go to war, let alone to stay at war for 8 years.

Our country spends 1 trillion dollars a year policing the world and it is driving this country into the ground. We can't pay for our infrastructure here, because we are blowing up Iraq and Afghanistan's and rebuilding theirs.

Iraq is the most ridiculous war, next to Vietnam, that this country has ever instigated.



I don't have a problem with our initial goal with the Afghan war. I have a problem with staying there for 10 years. Hundreds of billions of dollars put into Afghanistan and we are no closer to them having a legit Government than 8 years ago.

I don't support either war, in that they still are going on. There is no excuse for it and they need to end.

We should have never, ever went into Iraq. It is not our job to take care of the Middle East. If Saudi Arabia wants to get rid of Iraq, then they can do it themselves.

I actually, have less of a problem with what is going on in Libya than what has happened over the last 8 years in Iraq.
TL;DR:

Some discomfort, as minor or as major as it may have been or will continue to be, for one of the most successful countries in the world wasn't worth the lives of a few "ragheads", and their kids, and their kids kids who I'll never know the names of.
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