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Old 05-04-2011, 07:41 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent

I would like to point out a few things:

1) The United States of America is the only country in the world to have ever dropped a nuclear weapon on anyone.
2) I at no point said anything about sitting around a camp fire singing kumbaya. I simply ask people who celebrate Osama Bin Laden's death and who chanted "USA! USA! USA!" to understand what I wrote above and the consequences.
3) If we want to keep on living, we need to understand our enemy and why they are our enemy. Propping up dictators for our own benefit in the Middle East counteracts this goal. Giving Saddam Hussein chemical weapons and supporting Osama Bin Laden, even on the most basic level, during the 1980's counteracts this goal.

You are suppose to learn from the past, not make the following statement:

and then continue to support the same policy that got us where we are right now. The only glimpse into the future we have is the actions of our pasts. While some of these actions obviously contributed to where we are today, it is clear that there are enough actions, that we continue today, that are detrimental to our country, on a moral and economical level.
1. ...and now we're best friends, but we did that to stop the war, not to annihilate them off the plant.
2. I didn't think you did, but if anyone need to die it was him.
3. We're hated for being the havers and the have-nots will always despise the havers. It's hard finding the right CEO sooner or later the frack you.
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Old 05-04-2011, 08:06 PM   #37
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Re: I don't think they should've killed Bin Laden

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1. ...and now we're best friends, but we did that to stop the war, not to annihilate them off the plant.
That has nothing to do with my initial post you responded too. If we drop a nuclear bomb in the Middle East, they are not going to suddenly like us. There is no logical point in your sentence here.

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2. I didn't think you did, but if anyone need to die it was him.
I actually agreed with you on this, already.

Quote:
3. We're hated for being the havers and the have-nots will always despise the havers. It's hard finding the right CEO sooner or later the frack you.
Absolutely not. This statement right here makes it quite clear you have no understanding of who we are actually fighting in the Middle East. The people we are fighting do not hate us because we "have".

They hate us because for the last 60-70 years the United States of America has meddled in the affairs of the countries in the Middle East. Propping up dictators to support our interests, funding unorganized rebels such as Osama Bin Laden and handing over chemical weapons to leaders such as Saddam Hussein who in return used them on his own people.

During the Egypt protests, tear gas was being shot into crowds of protesters with canisters labeled "Made in U.S.A.", while in America our citizens can't go into our closet or fridge and find a single item labeled "Made in U.S.A.".

That is why people hate us. The only thing we export is our Military. Everything else we "have" comes from outside.
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Old 05-04-2011, 08:12 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Brent

That has nothing to do with my initial post you responded too. If we drop a nuclear bomb in the Middle East, they are not going to suddenly like us. There is no logical point in your sentence here.

I actually agreed with you on this, already.

Absolutely not. This statement right here makes it quite clear you have no understanding of who we are actually fighting in the Middle East. The people we are fighting do not hate us because we "have".

They hate us because for the last 60-70 years the United States of America has meddled in the affairs of the countries in the Middle East. Propping up dictators to support our interests, funding unorganized rebels such as Osama Bin Laden and handing over chemical weapons to leaders such as Saddam Hussein who in return used them on his own people.

During the Egypt protests, tear gas was being shot into crowds of protesters with canisters labeled "Made in U.S.A.", while in America our citizens can't go into our closest or fridge and find a single item labeled "Made in U.S.A.".

That is why people hate us. The only thing we export is our Military. Everything else we "have" comes from outside.
Couldn't agree with you more here Brent. Well said.
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Old 05-04-2011, 08:14 PM   #39
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Couldn't agree with you more here Brent. Well said.
+1 well said
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Old 05-04-2011, 08:43 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent

That has nothing to do with my initial post you responded too. If we drop a nuclear bomb in the Middle East, they are not going to suddenly like us. There is no logical point in your sentence here.

I actually agreed with you on this, already.

Absolutely not. This statement right here makes it quite clear you have no understanding of who we are actually fighting in the Middle East. The people we are fighting do not hate us because we "have".

They hate us because for the last 60-70 years the United States of America has meddled in the affairs of the countries in the Middle East. Propping up dictators to support our interests, funding unorganized rebels such as Osama Bin Laden and handing over chemical weapons to leaders such as Saddam Hussein who in return used them on his own people.

During the Egypt protests, tear gas was being shot into crowds of protesters with canisters labeled "Made in U.S.A.", while in America our citizens can't go into our closet or fridge and find a single item labeled "Made in U.S.A.".

That is why people hate us. The only thing we export is our Military. Everything else we "have" comes from outside.
I wasn't saying we should drop one. I was only replying to your statement that we are the only one to drop one.

If we DON'T meddle in other countries affairs. Something tells me we would regret it BIG TIME. Maybe we shouldn't have bothered with Germany. Hmmm How many people died because we looked the other way for so long? If it wasn't for Japan, what might this world look like today? Maybe German would be our national language. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't, but there's no way I'm going to get ****ed.

Edit: You sound like you have all the answers. So how would President Brent handle the United States and it's foreign affairs? It's so easy, right?
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:08 PM   #41
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Re: I don't think they should've killed Bin Laden

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Originally Posted by 11SHELBYGT500 View Post
I wasn't saying we should drop one. I was only replying to your statement that we are the only one to drop one.
The point was that argument is unfounded. In the history of the world, the United States of America is responsible for the majority of nuclear and chemical weapons distributed across the world. We created this monster.

Quote:
If we DON'T meddle in other countries affairs. Something tells me we would regret it BIG TIME. Maybe we shouldn't have bothered with Germany. Hmmm How many people died because we looked the other way for so long? If it wasn't for Japan, what might this world look like today? Maybe German would be our national language. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't, but there's no way I'm going to get ****ed.
Germany and Japan are not the Middle East. They were defined enemies, with specific agendas defined by borders. Those countries had one leader who, onces removed allowed for the entire collapse of the agenda that they held.

Osama is dead and we are no closer to getting out of the Middle East. If anything, everyone downplayed this death and said he was a non issue when he died.

Please stop using the two World Wars to validate future wars, just because those were the last two wars we actually won AND issued a declaration of war on a nation.

Quote:
Edit: You sound like you have all the answers. So how would President Brent handle the United States and it's foreign affairs? It's so easy, right?
I am giving you my opinion. In your sarcastic response are you indeed conceding that you have nothing else to offer to me other than sarcasm?
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:18 PM   #42
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I wasn't being sarcastic.
You clearly are stating your opinion about what the U.S. is doing wrong. I'm asking you, what should we be doing? Are you saying you don't know? You just know what we shouldn't be doing. That is a serious question.
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:32 PM   #43
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Re: I don't think they should've killed Bin Laden

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I wasn't being sarcastic.
You clearly are stating your opinion about what the U.S. is doing wrong. I'm asking you, what should we be doing? Are you saying you don't know? You just know what we shouldn't be doing? That is a serious question.
I'm sorry, I thought that was clear at this point. Let the Middle East deal with the Middle East. History shows they did not start messing with us until we decided to reach outside of our borders and start messing with them.

The United States of America had no historical ties to the Middle East when this country was founded. We ran away from England because of tax and religious oppression. We then kicked the Indians out and took this country as our own. We didn't give a **** about the Middle East until about the time everything we were producing relied on Oil. Our industrial era (which China is now entering) brought on our involvement in the Middle East. Why does anyone think we care about the Middle East to this day? We have never given a **** about Africa. Ever. The only people that give a **** about Africa are celebrities who want tax write offs. No, our "concern" with the Middle East, as a country, started about the time everyone on Planet Earth realized they were sitting on the next Gold mine. It is the same reason everyone left the east coast and ran to the west coast of America without stopping anywhere in the middle. People in this country have always gone where the money is.

We are there for a reason and it has nothing to do with our "safety" as a country and everything to do with how profitable oil is and how we refuse, as a country, to try to move away from it. At least, in the recent years we have attempted to make progress, but with everything in America it is a constant fight between our two party system. You make some progress and then it is removed. How many times do we have to have gay marriage approved only to be overturned. We still can't smoke weed in this country legally but we can go to a bar and get **** faced anytime we want.

I can't tell you what exact steps this country needs but I can tell you ignorance to how ****ed up we actually are is what keeps us going down the path we are. Consider this a therapist telling America what its issues are and some starting steps on how to get the ball rolling to improvement.

The cry of America is that people have fought for what we have today in America. It is time we stop that broken record and start realizing that what we have today is a pretty bleak future, at our current pace and that it isn't muslims fault that we are where we are. Only our own.
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:39 PM   #44
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One last question. To what party do you proclaim your allegiance?
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:40 PM   #45
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Re: I don't think they should've killed Bin Laden

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One last question. To what party do you proclaim your allegiance?
Not a single one.
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:42 PM   #46
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food for thought: rhetorical question - why is the majority of the united states (a highly christian nation) celebrating the death of a man who never came to know Christ? i understand he was Muslim, and i understand he was the US's public enemy number 1, but still, think about it. nobody should have to suffer for what they've done, even though they definitely deserve it.

"Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, 'If You are Christ, save Yourself and us.' But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, 'Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 'And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.' Then he said to Jesus, 'Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.' And Jesus said to him, 'Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.'" - Luke 23:39-43

i'm not justifying what he did, i'm not defending him in any way, i just want you guys to think about this. God put it on my heart the other day and i want everybody else to ponder it a little bit.
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:45 PM   #47
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Not a single ****ing one.
Hmmmm the fact that you put the f word in there intrigues me. You're not anti-American are you? or are you antigovernment?
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:46 PM   #48
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Re: I don't think they should've killed Bin Laden

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food for thought: rhetorical question - why is the majority of the united states (a highly christian nation) celebrating the death of a man who never came to know Christ? i understand he was Muslim, and i understand he was the US's public enemy number 1, but still, think about it. nobody should have to suffer for what they've done, even though they definitely deserve it.

"Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, 'If You are Christ, save Yourself and us.' But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, 'Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 'And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.' Then he said to Jesus, 'Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.' And Jesus said to him, 'Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.'" - Luke 23:39-43

i'm not justifying what he did, i'm not defending him in any way, i just want you guys to think about this. God put it on my heart the other day and i want everybody else to ponder it a little bit.
As a person who hates religion and can not believe in a supernatural being, my only contribution to this is ignorance. Pure and simple ignorance. That and the word sheep.
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:47 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by cruisin99coupe
food for thought: rhetorical question - why is the majority of the united states (a highly christian nation) celebrating the death of a man who never came to know Christ? i understand he was Muslim, and i understand he was the US's public enemy number 1, but still, think about it. nobody should have to suffer for what they've done, even though they definitely deserve it.

"Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, 'If You are Christ, save Yourself and us.' But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, 'Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 'And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.' Then he said to Jesus, 'Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.' And Jesus said to him, 'Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.'" - Luke 23:39-43

i'm not justifying what he did, i'm not defending him in any way, i just want you guys to think about this. God put it on my heart the other day and i want everybody else to ponder it a little bit.
Oh boy
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:48 PM   #50
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Re: I don't think they should've killed Bin Laden

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Hmmmm the fact that you put the f word in there intrigues me. You're not anti-American are you? or are you antigovernment?
Dude, I don't even know what to say to that. I'm done talking to you regarding this.
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:49 PM   #51
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As a person who hates religion and can not believe in a supernatural being, my only contribution to this is ignorance. Pure and simple ignorance. That and the word sheep.
hey, i appreciate the honesty man. not tryin to get all preachy on you, but were you just not feeling religion was for you or did you not want to be a part of it?
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:50 PM   #52
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Re: I don't think they should've killed Bin Laden

Was I thrilled to hear of his death? Absolutely.

When I woke up the next morning and saw the news reports and the footage of people, not just celebrating but, acting down right maniacal in the streets it was a big turn off. I could picture the extremists doing the same thing as our towers fell.

Executions, assassinations, and capital punishment for certain crimes all have need in my opinion, but death should never be celebrated. It should be treated solemnly. We should be careful to not let our regard for life stoop to the level of our enemy.
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:51 PM   #53
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Re: I don't think they should've killed Bin Laden

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but were you just not feeling religion was for you or did you not want to be a part of it?
Can you expand on that? Didn't really understand the question.
Edit: I got it now. Please PM (don't want to turn this into a religion thread.)
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:52 PM   #54
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Dude, I don't even know what to say to that. I'm done talking to you regarding this.
I take back the anti-American. After I posted it I thought about it and that doesn't fit.
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:57 PM   #55
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Re: I don't think they should've killed Bin Laden

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I agree to an extent...but according to the rules of engagement, if there is a real or perceived threat then action to prevent injury or death is appropriate. Also, military personnel cannot shoot to wound...if they shoot, it is with the intent to kill. There is a saying that goes , "it is better to be judged by twelve than carried by six."
It's difficult to make that decision in combat operations...in the time used to think about it, you or your battle might not be going home...It's a judgment call that can only be made by the people there at the time.

Yes, I wish bin laden would have been captured...but there are valid reasons that could have made that a non- option...
I think that was best said by Tu-Pac when he said it "I'd rather be carried by 6 than judged by 12"............especially in todays court system......
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:00 PM   #56
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Re: I don't think they should've killed Bin Laden

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Was I thrilled to hear of his death? Absolutely.

When I woke up the next morning and saw the news reports and the footage of people, not just celebrating but, acting down right maniacal in the streets it was a big turn off. I could picture the extremists doing the same thing as our towers fell.

Executions, assassinations, and capital punishment for certain crimes all have need in my opinion, but death should never be celebrated. It should be treated solemnly. We should be careful to not let our regard for life stoop to the level of our enemy.
Best I've seen it put yet...
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:05 PM   #57
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Re: I don't think they should've killed Bin Laden

If being an american means giving away all your rights and taking it up the *** from the government, yeah i'm anti-american.

If being an american means chanting USA after our government murdered a man, 10 years after he was relevant, for political gain and because the media manufactured him into a symbol of all evil and terrorism in the world, then yeah i'm anti-american.

If being an american means that i have to turn off my brain and think everything would be hunky-dory if only my political party was pulling the strings, then yeah i'm anti-american.

Pretty much everything portrayed as "the american way" these days is a huge embarrassment to me, and I make it a point to tell my international friends that much like the south is not all rednecks in mobile homes, america is not all stupid religious jingoistic weirdos.

Some of you people disgust me.
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:06 PM   #58
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Re: I don't think they should've killed Bin Laden

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I think that was best said by Tu-Pac when he said it "I'd rather be carried by 6 than judged by 12"............especially in todays court system......
You should read the book Lone Survivor by Marcus Luttrel. His SEAL team chose to let some sheep herders go that had stumbled upon their location. 3 of the 4 ended up dead after the herders had turned them in and over 150 Taliban flooded the area.

The SEALs voted to let the herders go because they didn't want to face a court martial had they been innocent.
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:13 PM   #59
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Re: I don't think they should've killed Bin Laden

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Hmmmm the fact that you put the f word in there intrigues me. You're not anti-American are you? or are you antigovernment?
Brent is far from it. He's actually much more thoughtful in his political and national policy stances than I would say 3/4ths of America is. We don't agree too often, but he has definitely thought about the reasons he believes in what he does and why he thinks those beliefs are best for the country.
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:28 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by ThaWill
If being an american means giving away all your rights and taking it up the *** from the government, yeah i'm anti-american.

If being an american means chanting USA after our government murdered a man, 10 years after he was relevant, for political gain and because the media manufactured him into a symbol of all evil and terrorism in the world, then yeah i'm anti-american.

If being an american means that i have to turn off my brain and think everything would be hunky-dory if only my political party was pulling the strings, then yeah i'm anti-american.

Pretty much everything portrayed as "the american way" these days is a huge embarrassment to me, and I make it a point to tell my international friends that much like the south is not all rednecks in mobile homes, america is not all stupid religious jingoistic weirdos.

Some of you people disgust me.
Hey, theres the fuqin door.
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:36 PM   #61
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Re: I don't think they should've killed Bin Laden

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Hey, theres the fuqin door.
I love that response. It basically implies "If you don't like me screwing up your country and your mad then just leave!"
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:42 PM   #62
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Re: I don't think they should've killed Bin Laden

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Hey, theres the fuqin door.
I'd go out the door, but I'm not going to subject myself to an ******* examination and leave my shampoo at home in order to be allowed through it, but hey now that bin laden is dead we can stop worrying about terrorism and quit subjecting ourselves to whatever the government deems necessary for our safety right?



right?

nice touch misspelling ****ing after calling brent out for cursing earlier....jesus knows what you meant
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:43 PM   #63
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Re: I don't think they should've killed Bin Laden

I don't think any of us will ever REALLY know what happened that night.

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Old 05-04-2011, 10:45 PM   #64
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Re: I don't think they should've killed Bin Laden

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Originally Posted by Pete08GT View Post
I agree to an extent...but according to the rules of engagement, if there is a real or perceived threat then action to prevent injury or death is appropriate. Also, military personnel cannot shoot to wound...if they shoot, it is with the intent to kill. There is a saying that goes , "it is better to be judged by twelve than carried by six."

It's difficult to make that decision in combat operations...in the time used to think about it, you or your battle might not be going home...It's a judgment call that can only be made by the people there at the time.

Yes, I wish bin laden would have been captured...but there are valid reasons that could have made that a non- option...
How do you know what rules of engagement were passed down to the operators? Only a select few know that and you aren't one of them.

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Originally Posted by 2008Shelby View Post
I think that was best said by Tu-Pac when he said it "I'd rather be carried by 6 than judged by 12"............especially in todays court system......
You've obviously never been there....

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Originally Posted by ThaWill View Post
If being an american means giving away all your rights and taking it up the *** from the government, yeah i'm anti-american.

If being an american means chanting USA after our government murdered a man, 10 years after he was relevant, for political gain and because the media manufactured him into a symbol of all evil and terrorism in the world, then yeah i'm anti-american.

If being an american means that i have to turn off my brain and think everything would be hunky-dory if only my political party was pulling the strings, then yeah i'm anti-american.

Pretty much everything portrayed as "the american way" these days is a huge embarrassment to me, and I make it a point to tell my international friends that much like the south is not all rednecks in mobile homes, america is not all stupid religious jingoistic weirdos.

Some of you people disgust me.
You are ignorant. OBL has been incredibly relevant for the past 10 years.

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He was unarmed and was no threat to the united state or anyone for that matter. I'm not saying that we should've let him go but there was no need in Murdering him. Two wrongs don't make a right. I think they should've brought him to the united state and put him through trial so he could get his punishment in prison.

What do you guy's think?
He was and has been a serious threat to the US. He was killed for that reason. He would be sentenced to death regardless so what does it matter? Saved time and money and he died without pain if it was truly a single shot to the brain.
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:51 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Brent

I love that response. It basically implies "If you don't like me screwing up your country and your mad then just leave!"
Your defense to that guys statement gives me a pretty good idea what you're all about.
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:52 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by ThaWill

I'd go out the door, but I'm not going to subject myself to an ******* examination and leave my shampoo at home in order to be allowed through it, but hey now that bin laden is dead we can stop worrying about terrorism and quit subjecting ourselves to whatever the government deems necessary for our safety right?

right?

nice touch misspelling ****ing after calling brent out for cursing earlier....jesus knows what you meant
I didn't call him for cursing. It was more about him being so passionate about not being a party supporter
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:54 PM   #67
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Re: I don't think they should've killed Bin Laden

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Originally Posted by 11SHELBYGT500 View Post
Your defense to that guys statement gives me a pretty good idea what you're all about.
You told another American if he didn't like this country he could leave. If you don't like his comment about America you can leave America too because he is just as much American as you are.
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:56 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Brent

You told another American if he didn't like this country he could leave. If you don't like his comment about America you can leave America too because he is just as much American as you are.
He hates America, I don't.
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:56 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by stangman94
He was unarmed and was no threat to the united state or anyone for that matter. I'm not saying that we should've let him go but there was no need in Murdering him. Two wrongs don't make a right. I think they should've brought him to the united state and put him through trial so he could get his punishment in prison.

What do you guy's think?
He was armed and so were all his 60 men the navy seals murdered at that mansion. he was using his wife as a meatshield
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:58 PM   #70
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Re: I don't think they should've killed Bin Laden

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Originally Posted by 11SHELBYGT500 View Post
He hates America, I don't.
L O L

That's what you got out of that?
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