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Old 12-09-2007, 08:49 PM   #71
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

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PS: my girlfriend has wrote my last few posts in this thread lol... i know nothing about health care
This is the reason my girlfriend has an account here.
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Old 12-10-2007, 06:11 AM   #72
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

Here's the reason I don't want the government to be in charge of it:

Because I don't want to pay for it.

Every time some crack head goes to the ER after getting in a fight for the last cheeseburger in the dumpster behind McD's, my tax dollars should not fund his health care. I don't see why people have gotten in their heads that it is somehow our "right" to free health care. I don't believe that one was in the bill of rights.

If you can't afford it, sucks for you. This is the same reason that I think Social Security a huge steaming pile of old tuna.
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Old 12-10-2007, 09:11 AM   #73
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

And that's why we Americans have private health insurance that ends up costing more! We'd rather pay astronomical amounts of money for ourselves rather than give a couple of bucks to the salvation army bucket. Some "unique system" huh? We don't trust our fellow Americans which is why we're in this mess in the first place. I want my own, but I don't wanna pay for you because, the way it is, I'd have to pay for both me and you. That's the mentality, right? If we weren't paying for ourselves and instead fed into a system that helped everyone that walked in, maybe it'd be a little different, though I highly doubt it judging by the amount of selfish SUV owners who blame the person their van rolled ontop of for causing their way-too-heavy-for-normal-transportation car to lose gravitational balance! I get cut off every day by MOMS in my little camry just because they wanna go faster, not cuz they're late or they got somewhere more important to be! Oh well, that's just me ranting about traffic cuz i gotta drive an hour away for college. But the mentality is still the same, and see where it's gotten us so far? Try being charitable, it helps, its even a stress reliever, but dont do it for yourself. That's what matt had to teach me all over again.
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Old 12-10-2007, 09:24 AM   #74
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

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Yea and look how much money is pissed away on Fire Departments and Police Departments every day while the people who actually go out there and put their lives on the line get paid **** for doing it.

Hell why we are at it, since you think the government does a wonderful job managing the FBI, CIA, State, Local Police and Fire Departments let's just make the move to socialism and let the government hold our hands. Don't like sarcasm? Me either.
So you don't like the officers who are paid by our tax dollars and actually do put their lives on the line everyday just like my uncle, huh? So all those soldiers fighting in Iraq also shouldnt get there education paid for cuz they're not doing their job right? and the 9/11 fire fighters caused their own problems when they went into that poisoned, burning rubble looking for lost brothers they didnt wanna believe were dead, when the mayor, president and everyone else who actually thought about it before hand and wore masks are healthy and therefore smarter and more deserving of better healthcare? If it went the way typical America wants it, then everyone'd be dead and dying and no one would be deserving enough for healthcare. I hate hearing people say they dont wanna pay for someone else's medications, etc. And now we have absolutely no faith and respect for the people that do the dirty work keeping our lives intact everyday? America's really lost its way.
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Old 12-10-2007, 12:38 PM   #75
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

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So you don't like the officers who are paid by our tax dollars and actually do put their lives on the line everyday just like my uncle, huh? So all those soldiers fighting in Iraq also shouldnt get there education paid for cuz they're not doing their job right? and the 9/11 fire fighters caused their own problems when they went into that poisoned, burning rubble looking for lost brothers they didnt wanna believe were dead, when the mayor, president and everyone else who actually thought about it before hand and wore masks are healthy and therefore smarter and more deserving of better healthcare? If it went the way typical America wants it, then everyone'd be dead and dying and no one would be deserving enough for healthcare. I hate hearing people say they dont wanna pay for someone else's medications, etc. And now we have absolutely no faith and respect for the people that do the dirty work keeping our lives intact everyday? America's really lost its way.
Oh, I can't wait till Brent gets a hold of this.
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Old 12-10-2007, 03:51 PM   #76
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

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So you don't like the officers who are paid by our tax dollars and actually do put their lives on the line everyday just like my uncle, huh? So all those soldiers fighting in Iraq also shouldnt get there education paid for cuz they're not doing their job right? and the 9/11 fire fighters caused their own problems when they went into that poisoned, burning rubble looking for lost brothers they didnt wanna believe were dead, when the mayor, president and everyone else who actually thought about it before hand and wore masks are healthy and therefore smarter and more deserving of better healthcare? If it went the way typical America wants it, then everyone'd be dead and dying and no one would be deserving enough for healthcare. I hate hearing people say they dont wanna pay for someone else's medications, etc. And now we have absolutely no faith and respect for the people that do the dirty work keeping our lives intact everyday? America's really lost its way.
Please re read my post.

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Yea and look how much money is pissed away on Fire Departments and Police Departments every day while the people who actually go out there and put their lives on the line get paid **** for doing it.
I agree 100% with Ben. I'm not going to pay for people to abuse the system. Reform private health care and improve it. Don't completely screw it up and leave it up to the government.
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Old 12-10-2007, 05:48 PM   #77
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

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And that's why we Americans have private health insurance that ends up costing more! We'd rather pay astronomical amounts of money for ourselves rather than give a couple of bucks to the salvation army bucket. Some "unique system" huh? We don't trust our fellow Americans which is why we're in this mess in the first place. I want my own, but I don't wanna pay for you because, the way it is, I'd have to pay for both me and you. That's the mentality, right? If we weren't paying for ourselves and instead fed into a system that helped everyone that walked in, maybe it'd be a little different, though I highly doubt it judging by the amount of selfish SUV owners who blame the person their van rolled ontop of for causing their way-too-heavy-for-normal-transportation car to lose gravitational balance! I get cut off every day by MOMS in my little camry just because they wanna go faster, not cuz they're late or they got somewhere more important to be! Oh well, that's just me ranting about traffic cuz i gotta drive an hour away for college. But the mentality is still the same, and see where it's gotten us so far? Try being charitable, it helps, its even a stress reliever, but dont do it for yourself. That's what matt had to teach me all over again.
And that's why I am not *****ing about it. I can afford my expensive *** health insurance just fine and dandy.
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Old 12-11-2007, 12:03 AM   #78
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

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And that's why we Americans have private health insurance that ends up costing more! We'd rather pay astronomical amounts of money for ourselves rather than give a couple of bucks to the salvation army bucket. Some "unique system" huh? We don't trust our fellow Americans which is why we're in this mess in the first place. I want my own, but I don't wanna pay for you because, the way it is, I'd have to pay for both me and you. That's the mentality, right? If we weren't paying for ourselves and instead fed into a system that helped everyone that walked in, maybe it'd be a little different, though I highly doubt it judging by the amount of selfish SUV owners who blame the person their van rolled ontop of for causing their way-too-heavy-for-normal-transportation car to lose gravitational balance! I get cut off every day by MOMS in my little camry just because they wanna go faster, not cuz they're late or they got somewhere more important to be! Oh well, that's just me ranting about traffic cuz i gotta drive an hour away for college. But the mentality is still the same, and see where it's gotten us so far? Try being charitable, it helps, its even a stress reliever, but dont do it for yourself. That's what matt had to teach me all over again.
Bingo. The majority of States unfortunately has this mentality of "what's mine is mine and **** everyone else". Now I know I'm going to get a response that goes something like, "well, I work for what I have, so why shouldn't it be?", and I do agree with you in many cases because I don't need some crack head dipping into my kool-aid either every time he needs a shot of methadone. However, as long as there's any kind of privately run system in place, and the rich will always have first call on everything because they can afford to pay for the first thing that comes up (like a heart transplant for example), and there will always be someone on the other end willing to take their money. The poor will always be forced to fend for themselves and never have a chance because there's no system in place to even give them a fighting chance, never mind a head start at anything. What gives anyone the right to say that someone isn't worth even basic medical care - and I'm not even talking about the crack head on the street corner, but how about the single mother with 2 children who's been abandoned by a deadbeat father? I'm sure that many opinions would change if someone ever had to look through the eyes of the people on the bottom end of the scale of many in the US.
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Old 12-11-2007, 02:14 AM   #79
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

The rich will always have a leg up on the poor. You think it will be any different with the government running it? Who do you think runs the government? Poor people? That's no excuse for giving the government yet another program it won't manage correctly.
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Old 12-11-2007, 03:11 AM   #80
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

Sounds like you trust the American government about as much as I do. LOL

(Had to take the shot while it was open ... but in all fairness, I trust our gov't up here almost about the same.)




Seriously though, as someone who has been able to sit on the outside and watched how the American media and government has slammed the idea of universal health care for so long now, I'm not surprised that so many of you are opposed to the concept. Yet meanwhile outside of the US, it's worked very well for many countries.

After looking at the countries that have universal health care, it occurred to me that, 1.) The US gives the countries YOU'RE AT WAR WITH coverage (sorry, but I find this really ridiculous), and 2.) The majority of the countries without it are 3rd world countries with the exception of the US, which is the only highly developed, 1st world nation not caring for it's citizens.

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Old 12-11-2007, 03:22 AM   #81
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

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which is the only highly developed, 1st world nation not caring for it's citizens.
Good. Let's keep it that way. Every time any government tries to care for it's people they end up ****ing it up because their greedy sons of *****es. Regulate insurance companies and give the people more power with their health insurance and keep the governments hand out of my health.

You and the rest in this thread that oppose private health care are not willing to give it a second chance by fixing what is wrong with it in it's current state. Revamping our entire health care system is asking for a disaster. A free market society should be that way all the way around. The only time the government should intervene is when corporations are abusing the system and people are suffering because of it. That is what needs to happen now. Insurance companies need to be held accountable for the things they do and the people need to be put in a position where insurance companies and doctors work for us and not the other way around.
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Old 12-11-2007, 07:16 AM   #82
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

Rich people are always going to have it better off. That's the American Dream. What is being asked for here is out right socialism. People want to have their cake and not have to carry it too or eat it too or something too. They want freedom, yet they want the government to do everything for them. It doesn't work that way.

The reason we do not and should not have universal health care can be summed up in one word: "capitalism". Anyone who doesn't like it should move to Canada.
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Old 12-11-2007, 09:51 AM   #83
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

its not just about money.... the united states has one of the WORST health care qualities in the developed world. there are 3rd world countries with better health care than we do. one of the leading factors for this is because we don't have preventive care. there needs to be MAJOR changes and not just how people get paid.
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Old 12-11-2007, 09:56 AM   #84
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

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Rich people are always going to have it better off. That's the American Dream. What is being asked for here is out right socialism. People want to have their cake and not have to carry it too or eat it too or something too. They want freedom, yet they want the government to do everything for them. It doesn't work that way.

The reason we do not and should not have universal health care can be summed up in one word: "capitalism". Anyone who doesn't like it should move to Canada.
i dont understand how you can denounce socialized health care because of our country's lack of compatiability with socialism. maybe we should abolish public schools, fire stations, police stations, post offices, etc due to their influence of socialism on our country.
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Old 12-11-2007, 12:17 PM   #85
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

Honestly, it's that same "forward" thinking that leaves the States as 1 of only 3 countries left in the world that has yet to adopt the metric system as well (Liberia and Myanmar are the other two).
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Old 12-11-2007, 05:02 PM   #86
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

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its not just about money.... the united states has one of the WORST health care qualities in the developed world. there are 3rd world countries with better health care than we do. one of the leading factors for this is because we don't have preventive care. there needs to be MAJOR changes and not just how people get paid.
So make Private health care work. You are kidding yourself if you think socialized health care is the only way for people to get good health care.

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i dont understand how you can denounce socialized health care because of our country's lack of compatiability with socialism. maybe we should abolish public schools, fire stations, police stations, post offices, etc due to their influence of socialism on our country.
Public schools are an option. We have private schools. My cousin has never set foot in a public school because his parents chose not to send him to one.

You are taking things to the extreme, as people usually do. You are claiming that we should abolish all government which is totally ridiculous. No one is advocating that.

Because we oppose socialized health care does not mean we oppose all government. We oppose government where it shouldn't be.
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Old 12-11-2007, 05:04 PM   #87
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

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Honestly, it's that same "forward" thinking that leaves the States as 1 of only 3 countries left in the world that has yet to adopt the metric system as well (Liberia and Myanmar are the other two).
On my list of issues that's probably the least thing I care about.
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Old 12-11-2007, 06:23 PM   #88
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

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i dont understand how you can denounce socialized health care because of our country's lack of compatiability with socialism. maybe we should abolish public schools, fire stations, police stations, post offices, etc due to their influence of socialism on our country.
Yes, maybe we should. But you said it, not me.
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Old 12-11-2007, 07:12 PM   #89
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

Thank you Steve. atleast someone out there is thinking rationally. is it really that cold in canada? just wonderin...

Edit: Thanks Kelly for using my account for asking how the weather is.
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Old 12-11-2007, 08:06 PM   #90
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

I think Bill Brasky should be president.
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Old 12-11-2007, 08:29 PM   #91
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

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Thank you Steve. atleast someone out there is thinking rationally. is it really that cold in canada? just wonderin...

Edit: Thanks Kelly for using my account for asking how the weather is.
Why are we not thinking rationally? Because we don't want to overhaul the entire health care system and give it over to the government to run?

Damn us irrational people.
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Old 12-11-2007, 10:49 PM   #92
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

Me and my Dad were talking tonight about how screwed up the whole election process is and we came up with what we think is a great way to nominate a Republican and Democrat to run for President that would be simple and fair to everyone. At the same time it would also give America two candidates that are running that, no matter which ran, would be at least somewhat in the interest of the majority of Americans. It would make both parties have to appeal to both sides of the political spectrum.

The thought is to have on election day for both nominations. On that day, no matter which party you align yourself with, you would be able to vote for one republican and one democrat. The Democrat and Republican that wins with the most overall percentage wins the nomination for the respective party.

Thoughts?
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Old 12-11-2007, 11:08 PM   #93
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

Sort of like a playoff system? Semi finals and finals... I like it.
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Old 12-12-2007, 12:27 AM   #94
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

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Me and my Dad were talking tonight about how screwed up the whole election process is and we came up with what we think is a great way to nominate a Republican and Democrat to run for President that would be simple and fair to everyone. At the same time it would also give America two candidates that are running that, no matter which ran, would be at least somewhat in the interest of the majority of Americans. It would make both parties have to appeal to both sides of the political spectrum.

The thought is to have on election day for both nominations. On that day, no matter which party you align yourself with, you would be able to vote for one republican and one democrat. The Democrat and Republican that wins with the most overall percentage wins the nomination for the respective party.

Thoughts?
Good way to get things back on track

Nice concept though, because it's very true. IMO it's mostly because you can't have much worse than what's in power right now, but also because almost all of those candidates are willing to stand up and say that changes (in at least one form or another) need to be made to the way things are.

There are some lamers like Fred Thompson for example, who would be smarter to drop out now and save their money, but the majority seem to have a clue this time around (thankfully it's not another Kerry/Bush vote again!)
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Old 12-12-2007, 08:01 AM   #95
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

Get rid of the electoral college! that's the first thing that's gotta go.
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Old 12-12-2007, 06:45 PM   #96
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

Here is Ron Paul on health care

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Old 12-12-2007, 07:35 PM   #97
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

I can't comment a lot on this yet as well because I haven't had a lot of time to do the research and figure out which candidate I am going to vote for, and saying that, Brent, you have definitely done your homework and have stated your opinion very well when it comes to Ron Paul and can easily back up every statement you make...so, well done and I think it's awesome you are supporting someone you are passionate about and believe in. I honestly didn't know that much about him until this thread. I definitely say he has a chance to win and no one should cut him down just because he's not the most popular candidate.

I very much agree that Ron Paul would be a great President and I personally really like what he stands for and feels that this is the kind of change our country needs. The most important issue to me as well is health care. It's sooooo messed up, someone has to do something about it. When I was un-insured, I was paying a ridiculous amount of $$ for health insurance and it's just crazy. I'm not saying the government taking over is the answer at all, but there has to be a way to make it affordable for everyone, whether you get it through your job like most of us, or not. Walking around without health insurance is like blindly trying to walk across a busy interstate, hoping for the best, it's just stupid, but some people can't help they don't (or can't afford it in some cases) have health insurance for whatever reason (no offense to anyone, I'm just saying something has to be done). We need to pay teachers and law enforcement more, as well as many other occupations and help others help themselves. I totally agree with Rob (PureVenom) when it comes to his stance on welfare, some people deserve it that are at least trying to make an attempt to get a job and fix their situations, some totally abuse is, which is just uncalled for and is only making the situation worse.

I don't remember who said to hell with caring about abortion (Rob, I'm thinking lol) but it is an important issue to many people, especially women. I think it's a choice for everyone and some people feel very strongly about it one way or the other, personally, I'm pro-choice and feel that's not something government should interfere with, but should never be used as a form of birth control at the same time...some things need to be left up to the people. FREEDOM, that's what this country is all about!

We definitely need a change in this country and after reading this thread, I'm definitely glad I know more about Ron Paul. I can't guarantee he has my vote yet because I still need to figure that out, but I think the more that people know about him, the better.

Health care is a must, we have to do something about that. Gas prices too!

Things are definitely messed up, and we need to get our troops home soon as well.

So much for not commenting a lot yet! haha. That's all for now.
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Old 12-14-2007, 10:08 AM   #98
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

Since the seems to be quite a few Ron Paul supporters here ... I saw this on another site.

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Subject: OUR FRIEND RON PAUL'S LAST CHANCE! (#16157)

Hi there, fellow supporter! This message is long, but READ JUST THIS PARAGRAPH FOR THE SHORT VERSION. Ron Paul's supporters raised $4.3 million November 5th. This was raised from individual Ron Paul supporters like yourself. It was the largest one-day fundraiser by a Republican in any primary race, and we have earned quite a bit of attention and respect from it. On December 16th (the 234th anniversary of the Boston Tea Party) Ron Paul supporters like you and I plan to raise $10 million in a single day. This means we will have managed the largest one-day political fund raiser in history. Without your donation, we will fail. With it, we will pull off the upset of the century, put the good doctor in the White House, and restore liberty to all Americans. Join us on the epic December 16th for the Tea Party 07:

Tea Party 07 - Ron Paul for President Mass Donation Day

Already, the Tea Party has more subscribers than November 5th! If you can give $100, please sign up so we know where we are. If you can't, please mark your calendar, and do not forget to scrape up as much as you can on December 16th!

We need your every single ounce of effort on this one. This will be Ron Paul's last chance. When the Tea Party succeeds, we will be the frontrunner in fundraising out of ALL the political candidates, Republican or Democratic. The media attention will be stupendous, and Ron Paul will finally have the means to run a truly national campaign. This is essential, because the primaries are only a few weeks away, and only 30% of primary goers have even HEARD of Ron Paul. But this is good news! With Ron Paul already polling at almost 10%, this means that one-third of the people who have heard of him will be voting for him. Imagine how high his polling would reach if we can get the message to another 30%, 60% or 90% of likely primary voters!

Ron Paul needs the media exposure from having the largest fundraiser in history, as well as the actual money it will bring in. If we pull this off, Ron Paul will have the entire media dedicated to just him for the entire day; it will be a deal-breaker for his candidacy: we MUST succeed.


Ron Paul is Hope for America

If they're a Democrat concerned about the war, point them to RonPaulIsPeace.com and note that even Clinton and Obama have refused to commit to be out of Iraq by 2013. And whoever you tell about Dr. Paul, ask them to donate on December 16th as a personal favor to you instead of getting you a Christmas present this year! Remember, even $1 donations bring up the total number of donors, an equally significant figure.

This Facebook message was sent to you by a fellow supporter like yourself. We have already reached 2193 of over 50,000 of Ron Paul's Facebook friends! To help reach everyone (it takes just a minute), visit this webpage:

Ron Paul December 16th Tea Party - Facebook Initiative

This is truly our last chance. However, with your help, it won't be our last "chance"; it will be yet another victory for the American people.

TO VICTORY!

Tea Party 07 - Ron Paul for President Mass Donation Day

P.S. Also check out the following cool Ron Paul efforts: Ron Paul Blimp , Five For Freedom - Operation "Live Free or Die" , Ron Paul Letter Writing Campaign , MySpace.com - Operation Front Door - 26 - Male - LEBANON, New Hampshire - www.myspace.com/operationfrontdoor and vote in the Facebook elections: http://apps.facebook.com/elections/ !
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Old 12-14-2007, 04:49 PM   #99
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

I plan on donating for the Tea Party.
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Old 12-17-2007, 12:24 PM   #100
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

Check out who Ron Paul's top 10 contributors are:

2008 Presidential Election: Ron Paul Campaign Money
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Old 12-18-2007, 08:26 AM   #101
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

If you want to know what Ron Paul stands for these two videos explain it better than anyone can.



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Old 12-18-2007, 12:17 PM   #102
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

Awful lot of big corporations on there...Computer and Telcoms have a larger chunk...I wonder why this is?

Also, I can't believe M$oft is letting google kick its *** on the donation front.
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Old 12-18-2007, 12:45 PM   #103
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by PureVenom View Post
Awful lot of big corporations on there...Computer and Telcoms have a larger chunk...I wonder why this is?

Also, I can't believe M$oft is letting google kick its *** on the donation front.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing about the big corporations he has listed...
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Old 12-18-2007, 11:06 PM   #104
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

Well you could compare those to Clinton, Giuliani, Huckabee and Romney and see how their donations compare to Ron Pauls.
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