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Old 11-28-2007, 11:18 PM   #1
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The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

In a moment of pure insanity I thought it would be a great idea to do this. One thread discussing the upcoming Primaries.

My Thoughts:
I'm very excited about the upcoming primaries because I believe that we have a chance to put this country in to the hands of a true conservative who will work hard to reduce the amount of control our Government has on our life.

From Ron Paul's website:

Quote:
Working Americans like lower taxes. So do I. Lower taxes benefit all of us, creating jobs and allowing us to make more decisions for ourselves about our lives.

Whether a tax cut reduces a single mother’s payroll taxes by $40 a month or allows a business owner to save thousands in capital gains taxes and hire more employees, that tax cut is a good thing. Lower taxes allow more spending, saving, and investing which helps the economy — that means all of us.

Real conservatives have always supported low taxes and low spending.

But today, too many politicians and lobbyists are spending America into ruin. We are nine trillion dollars in debt as a nation. Our mounting government debt endangers the financial future of our children and grandchildren. If we don’t cut spending now, higher taxes and economic disaster will be in their future — and yours.

In addition, the Federal Reserve, our central bank, fosters runaway debt by increasing the money supply — making each dollar in your pocket worth less. The Fed is a private bank run by unelected officials who are not required to be open or accountable to “we the people.”

Worse, our economy and our very independence as a nation is increasingly in the hands of foreign governments such as China and Saudi Arabia, because their central banks also finance our runaway spending.

We cannot continue to allow private banks, wasteful agencies, lobbyists, corporations on welfare, and governments collecting foreign aid to dictate the size of our ballooning budget. We need a new method to prioritize our spending. It’s called the Constitution of the United States.
Quote:
The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my six point plan:

* Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
* Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
* No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
* No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
* End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
* Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.
Quote:
The war in Iraq was sold to us with false information. The area is more dangerous now than when we entered it. We destroyed a regime hated by our direct enemies, the jihadists, and created thousands of new recruits for them. This war has cost more than 3,000 American lives, thousands of seriously wounded, and hundreds of billions of dollars. We must have new leadership in the White House to ensure this never happens again.

Both Jefferson and Washington warned us about entangling ourselves in the affairs of other nations. Today, we have troops in 130 countries. We are spread so thin that we have too few troops defending America. And now, there are new calls for a draft of our young men and women.

We can continue to fund and fight no-win police actions around the globe, or we can refocus on securing America and bring the troops home. No war should ever be fought without a declaration of war voted upon by the Congress, as required by the Constitution.

Under no circumstances should the U.S. again go to war as the result of a resolution that comes from an unelected, foreign body, such as the United Nations.

Too often we give foreign aid and intervene on behalf of governments that are despised. Then, we become despised. Too often we have supported those who turn on us, like the Kosovars who aid Islamic terrorists, or the Afghan jihadists themselves, and their friend Osama bin Laden. We armed and trained them, and now we’re paying the price.

At the same time, we must not isolate ourselves. The generosity of the American people has been felt around the globe. Many have thanked God for it, in many languages. Let us have a strong America, conducting open trade, travel, communication, and diplomacy with other nations.
Quote:
I share our Founders’ belief that in a free society each citizen must have the right to keep and bear arms. They ratified the Second Amendment knowing that this right is the guardian of every other right, and they all would be horrified by the proliferation of unconstitutional legislation that prevents law-abiding Americans from exercising this right.

I have always supported the Second Amendment and these are some of the bills I have introduced in the current Congress to help restore respect for it:

* H.R. 1096 includes provisions repealing the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act and the Federal Firearms License Reform Act of 1993, two invasive and unconstitutional bills.
* H.R. 1897 would end the ban on carrying a firearm in the National Park System, restoring Americans’ ability to protect themselves in potentially hazardous situations.
* H.R. 3305 would allow pilots and specially assigned law enforcement personnel to carry firearms in order to protect airline passengers, possibly preventing future 9/11-style attacks.
* H.R. 1146 would end our membership in the United Nations, protecting us from their attempts to tax our guns or disarm us entirely.

In the past, I introduced legislation to repeal the so-called “assault weapons” ban before its 2004 sunset, and I will oppose any attempts to reinstate it.

I also recently opposed H.R. 2640, which would allow government-appointed psychiatrists to ban U.S. veterans experiencing even mild forms of Post-Traumatic Stress Syndrome from ever owning a gun.

You have the right to protect your life, liberty, and property. As President, I will continue to guard the liberties stated in the Second Amendment.
Quote:
Our nation’s promise to its seniors, once considered a sacred trust, has become little more than a tool for politicians to scare retirees while robbing them of their promised benefits. Today, the Social Security system is broke and broken.

Those in the system are seeing their benefits dwindle due to higher taxes, increasing inflation, and irresponsible public spending.

The proposed solutions, ranging from lower benefits to higher taxes to increasing the age of eligibility, are NOT solutions; they are betrayals.

Imposing any tax on Social Security benefits is unfair and illogical. In Congress, I have introduced the Senior Citizens Tax Elimination Act (H.R. 191), which repeals ALL taxes on Social Security benefits, to eliminate political theft of our seniors’ income and raise their standard of living.

Solvency is the key to keeping our promise to our seniors, and I have introduced the Social Security Preservation Act (H.R. 219) to ensure that money paid into the system is only used for Social Security.

It is fundamentally unfair to give benefits to anyone who has not paid into the system. The Social Security for Americans Only Act (H.R. 190) ends the drain on Social Security caused by illegal aliens seeking the fruits of your labor.

We must also address the desire of younger workers to save and invest on their own. We should cut payroll taxes and give workers the opportunity to seek better returns in the private market.

Excessive government spending has created the insolvency crisis in Social Security. We must significantly reduce spending so that our nation can keep its promise to our seniors.
:patriot:
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Old 11-28-2007, 11:31 PM   #2
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

werd Ron Paul 08 FTW
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Old 11-28-2007, 11:37 PM   #3
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

Give it up, Brent. Alabama is so late on the primary list, we're irrelevant. See, the way it's going to happen is...

The Democrats are going to nominate Hillary. That will give the Republicans a free hand to basically nominate a president. So they'll nominate another president of the same mold as W. He'll tow the party line and sign anything into law the the house and senate pass up to him. Our only hope is that the Democrats hold onto a big enough majority in the house and senate that the republicans don't have the free hand to pass endless legislation without any checks, like they did from '00-'06 or '07.
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Old 11-28-2007, 11:41 PM   #4
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

yeah, i feel the same way. even if he doesnt win, maybe his ideas will give someone the chance to stand up later.

hell, i wouldnt even mind a full blown revolution at this point. his ideals are so radical because our government is just so tight and too political.

i would be curious to see how our government, which is so politically correct and uptight, handle the situation.

so many countries (russia, china, etc) have had very violent uprisings, but i think america would just embrace it with open arms (or assume an authoritarian government).
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Old 11-29-2007, 12:22 AM   #5
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkuzLS1 View Post
Give it up, Brent. Alabama is so late on the primary list, we're irrelevant. See, the way it's going to happen is...

The Democrats are going to nominate Hillary. That will give the Republicans a free hand to basically nominate a president. So they'll nominate another president of the same mold as W. He'll tow the party line and sign anything into law the the house and senate pass up to him. Our only hope is that the Democrats hold onto a big enough majority in the house and senate that the republicans don't have the free hand to pass endless legislation without any checks, like they did from '00-'06 or '07.
i dunno. even most pubs dont like GW's ways, so its eh on them electing someone like him.

however that is true, if Hillary is the dems, the pubs basically have a free shot. Hillary has pull but hopefully the voting youth of america isnt that dumb yet to vote her in.
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Old 11-29-2007, 01:56 AM   #6
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

Quote:
* H.R. 1146 would end our membership in the United Nations, protecting us from their attempts to tax our guns or disarm us entirely.
****ing DONE. I will register myself to vote to vote for this man.
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Old 11-29-2007, 03:40 PM   #7
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

I could definitely vote for Ron Paul. I'm not a big fan of his anti-abortion (pro-life, or whatever you want to call it) stance. That's one of the few things that the Democrats and I agree on. It's certainly alot easier for me to compromise on that one than it is to compromise on the amount of stuff that would be required to support one of the Democrat front-runners, though. Maybe we'll luck-up and he'll get the nod. Or maybe he'll run anyway, as an independant.
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Old 11-29-2007, 03:59 PM   #8
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

So....what you are saying is....a politician's web site says some stuff and we, the people, are supposed to believe what is written? I am guessing we are also to believe what is being spoken as well.

Problem 1: This is being stated by a politician.
Problem 2: See problem 1.

No matter who gets the nod from either party, they will only follow through on about 5% of anything they said....so, it comes down to a vote between who we want to do the opposite of what they say most of the time.
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Old 11-29-2007, 04:01 PM   #9
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkuzLS1 View Post
I'm not a big fan of his anti-abortion (pro-life, or whatever you want to call it) stance. That's one of the few things that the Democrats and I agree on.

Why in the world did this even ever become a political issue? This is one of the more retarded debate questions always asked in every election...big or small. Abortion has nothing to do with running the country. Gays have nothing to do with running this country. Who cares what their stance is.

Important items include:
How the hell are we going to lower gas prices?
When are we going to let our troops do what is needed to get the job done so they can get out of there?
When are we going to realize other countries don't mean **** and tell the UN to go fly a kit?
When are we going to tell the lazy asses on welfare (the ones not making any attempt to work, that have several generations on welfare) to get off their *** and get a job or starve to death?
What are we going to do to squash this PC BS like a roach?
What are we going to do to boot the illegals?

Those are the debate questions that matter....to hell with abortion.
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Old 11-29-2007, 04:15 PM   #10
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

Meh, Rob Paul seems like an alright guy...I would consider voting for him as I agree with a majority of his "convervative" stancs...

He does, however, have a few stances that are seemingly "contradictory", as the least the way I ready them...Namely his decription of how he believes the US should interact with other nations...For instance, here are two quotes from the above exerpts:

(1) * H.R. 1146 would end our membership in the United Nations, protecting us from their attempts to tax our guns or disarm us entirely.

(2) "At the same time, we must not isolate ourselves. The generosity of the American people has been felt around the globe. Many have thanked God for it, in many languages. Let us have a strong America, conducting

The entire premise of the United Nations (which we are essentially the head of anyway) is to promote "open trade, travel, communication, and diplomacy with other nations"...If we were to leave and/or dispand the UN as he suggests, that would surely have an ill-effect on our relationship with friendly countries to whom we are supposed to continue to interact with...

Of his above stances, the one in particular that I completely disagree with him on is the Social Security setup...Honestly, I don't believe there should be social security at all...IMO, there are two options for the typical working man...(1) Work utnil you are 100+ years old or dead, whichever comes first so that your retirement is not someone else's bill...OR (2) if you are smart enough to do so, start YOUNG by putting money aside so that by the time you do get "old", you have a massive nest egg to fall back on...INTEREST (from investments and such) is a wonderful thing...Maybe I am selfish, but I am the type of guy that I am going to work forever so long as I am physically able...I have no desire to stop working one day just to grow old and kick the bucket...If I want to grow old and retire, I will do it with the money I worked hard to earn over the years...I don't want anyone else's money nor do I want to freely give anyone Mine...

/rant
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Old 11-29-2007, 05:26 PM   #11
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2E0L0L5OGWT View Post
Meh, Rob Paul seems like an alright guy...I would consider voting for him as I agree with a majority of his "convervative" stancs...

He does, however, have a few stances that are seemingly "contradictory", as the least the way I ready them...Namely his decription of how he believes the US should interact with other nations...For instance, here are two quotes from the above exerpts:

(1) * H.R. 1146 would end our membership in the United Nations, protecting us from their attempts to tax our guns or disarm us entirely.

(2) "At the same time, we must not isolate ourselves. The generosity of the American people has been felt around the globe. Many have thanked God for it, in many languages. Let us have a strong America, conducting

The entire premise of the United Nations (which we are essentially the head of anyway) is to promote "open trade, travel, communication, and diplomacy with other nations"...If we were to leave and/or dispand the UN as he suggests, that would surely have an ill-effect on our relationship with friendly countries to whom we are supposed to continue to interact with...

Of his above stances, the one in particular that I completely disagree with him on is the Social Security setup...Honestly, I don't believe there should be social security at all...IMO, there are two options for the typical working man...(1) Work utnil you are 100+ years old or dead, whichever comes first so that your retirement is not someone else's bill...OR (2) if you are smart enough to do so, start YOUNG by putting money aside so that by the time you do get "old", you have a massive nest egg to fall back on...INTEREST (from investments and such) is a wonderful thing...Maybe I am selfish, but I am the type of guy that I am going to work forever so long as I am physically able...I have no desire to stop working one day just to grow old and kick the bucket...If I want to grow old and retire, I will do it with the money I worked hard to earn over the years...I don't want anyone else's money nor do I want to freely give anyone Mine...

/rant
You can nit pick any politician and find something you disagree with him on. Ron Paul is the best choice for a true conservative leadership out of everyone running.
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Old 11-29-2007, 09:50 PM   #12
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

yeah brent too bad h doesn't stand a chance at winning
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Old 11-29-2007, 09:56 PM   #13
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

He has a chance. You're not helping anything by telling everyone that might consider him that he doesn't have a chance.

You might as well move to Switzerland if you are going to take that attitude. Nothing will ever improve in this country otherwise.
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Old 11-29-2007, 10:21 PM   #14
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

sorry if my view of reality bothers you, as much as i would LOVE to see it I doubt it
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Old 11-29-2007, 11:08 PM   #15
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

You're view of reality does bother me because it's false. You've given up before the fight has even started. The first vote hasn't been cast and you are throwing in the towel.

That's weak. Be optimistic.
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Old 11-30-2007, 12:39 AM   #16
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2E0L0L5OGWT View Post
Meh, Rob Paul seems like an alright guy...I would consider voting for him as I agree with a majority of his "convervative" stancs...

*snip*

(1) * H.R. 1146 would end our membership in the United Nations, protecting us from their attempts to tax our guns or disarm us entirely.

(2) "At the same time, we must not isolate ourselves. The generosity of the American people has been felt around the globe. Many have thanked God for it, in many languages. Let us have a strong America, conducting

The entire premise of the United Nations (which we are essentially the head of anyway) is to promote "open trade, travel, communication, and diplomacy with other nations"...If we were to leave and/or dispand the UN as he suggests, that would surely have an ill-effect on our relationship with friendly countries to whom we are supposed to continue to interact with...

*snip*
If we were to leave the united nations, the only thing that would happen is our rate of increase in national debt would would decrease. We fund like a third of all expenses the UN comes up with. We supply most of the troops...most of the suppport....most everything. What the other countries think of us matters about as much as a drop of water in the pacific ocean. Whether they love us or hate us, they will do nothing but bad mouth us until they need something, then they will beg us for help. Once we help, and are finished, they will go back to bad mouthing us. So, it doesn't matter. The UN will crumble if we left. It is nothing more than another corrupt political organization.

Sure, He might say a lot of things, but this election, just like every other in my life time, comes down to this.....who do you disagree with the least and who do you hate the most. That is the person you vote for. South park had it right.....A ****** bag or a **** sandwich...pick your poison.

This country will not return to its glory until we go through another revolution/civil war type situation. The general mentality of todays leaders, and next generation leaders, is going to turn us into the next USSR and we too will crumble into a shell of what we once were.

The repubs are going to nominate whomever toes the line the best...whomever bends to the parties wishes. The dems will do the same...If this ron guy disagrees with the repubs too much, his only hope will be as an independant....and as an independant, he will do nothing more than occupy space on the ballot....and take votes away from one of the main parties...which could put hitlary in office....like it did with W vs Gore and W vs Kerry....however, in that case we definitely ended up with the lesser evil...

Anyhow...I'm done with my pioitical rant cause politics make me want to punch babies....politicians are the only life form lower than lawyers....and should all be flogged.

/rant
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Old 11-30-2007, 01:07 AM   #17
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

What's Ron Paul's stance on the VA Hospitals?
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Old 11-30-2007, 01:11 AM   #18
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

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What's Ron Paul's stance on the VA Hospitals?
Meh, that doesn't matter....Veterans and soldiers don't matter in politics....silly.
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Old 11-30-2007, 09:46 AM   #19
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

Here you go:



:patriot:
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Old 12-01-2007, 04:54 PM   #20
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

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Why in the world did this even ever become a political issue? This is one of the more retarded debate questions always asked in every election...big or small. Abortion has nothing to do with running the country. Gays have nothing to do with running this country. Who cares what their stance is.

Important items include:
How the hell are we going to lower gas prices?
When are we going to let our troops do what is needed to get the job done so they can get out of there?
When are we going to realize other countries don't mean **** and tell the UN to go fly a kit?
When are we going to tell the lazy asses on welfare (the ones not making any attempt to work, that have several generations on welfare) to get off their *** and get a job or starve to death?
What are we going to do to squash this PC BS like a roach?
What are we going to do to boot the illegals?

Those are the debate questions that matter....to hell with abortion.
Hell, I dunno about ron paul, but i'd vote for this guy.
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Old 12-01-2007, 08:08 PM   #21
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

MY only problem with Ron Paul is he is a former Libertarian which is not so bad. I identify with 75% of what the libertarian party stands for.

1. Dont mess with the constitution
2. Be fiscally conservative with spend tax money
3. The Government needs to stay out of people's life, liberty and the persuit of Happiness. Our Countries Founding Fathers would not like Political Correctness.
4. No taxation without representation.

Those are all good but what I cant stand about the Libertarian part is
1. They are isolationist. They dont believe the US should fight anywhere but to defend US soil. That would be all dandy if we lived in a beautiful sweet innocent world but we dont so we need to project our forces to meet any need we have to secure our way of life and of our allies. Isolation is just another name for sticking your head in the sand till someone comes and clubs you when you are not looking.

I have not made up my mind. The choices are slim and again I will pick from a list of who is the least bad person. Not who is the best candidate.

Personally I have said it before but it is becoming more clearer WE NEED A CHANGE. WE NEED ANOTHER REVOLUTION!

Thinks about it.
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Old 12-01-2007, 09:54 PM   #22
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

Ron Paul isn't an isolationist. He voted for the Afghan war. That's a popular mis conception with Ron Paul. John McCain tried to play that card in the debate.
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Old 12-01-2007, 10:47 PM   #23
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

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Ron Paul isn't an isolationist. He voted for the Afghan war. That's a popular mis conception with Ron Paul. John McCain tried to play that card in the debate.
I dont dislike Ron Paul. I was not bashing him, I was making a point he was a libertarian and what libertarians stand for. He was a libertarian and in the past was a isolationist. What I am worried about is his wanting to cut out of Iraq when things are finally turning around. We have got the ethnic attacks way down and have most of the country turned around and hunting down Al Qaeda.
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Old 12-01-2007, 10:56 PM   #24
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

He ran as an Libertarian for 1 office. The Presidency. He has run as a Republican for all the terms he won he Texas. He's a true conservative. Not an isolationist.
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Old 12-01-2007, 11:22 PM   #25
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

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He ran as an Libertarian for 1 office. The Presidency. He has run as a Republican for all the terms he won he Texas. He's a true conservative. Not an isolationist.
I beg to differ on the the isolationist part. He might not be now but he was. I have more info from my Brother in law who lives in Irving Texas about Ron Paul than what his literature talks about. People change and evidently he said he has. I am not knocking him as much as the fact running for the libertarian party will put off many ultra conservative Republicans from voting for him in the primary's. I was approached by a Ron Paul staffer in Greenville to come volunteer for him and I turned them down do to lack of time to committ and not being sure I would vote for him.

I hope someone jumps out as a clear leader for sure and to help me God I do not want slick Mit Romney to be that person. He is a jiving slickster. I am still undecided. I dont like Mccain I seem to be leaning towards Thompson or Paul. But in the end I will pick any republican in the general elections of the bunch of panty waste run for the job on the democrate side.
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Old 12-01-2007, 11:55 PM   #26
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

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He's a true conservative. Not an isolationist.
True conservatives are isolationists.
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Old 12-02-2007, 12:16 AM   #27
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

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True conservatives are isolationists.
No Conservatives are not isolationist and neither are Liberals Both have reason for projecting power. Libertarians are staunch isolationist because of the principle of how war is paid for. Libertarians are not a big fan of taxes expecially income tax. Paying for war is not a high priority for a Libertarian.
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Old 12-02-2007, 10:25 AM   #28
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

i can not really comment on this yet, as I have not done enough research to determine who I am going to back, but my main question this year is going to concern health insurance. When I was uninsured, it cost me 600$ a MONTH for health insurance--thats ridiculous.
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Old 12-02-2007, 01:10 PM   #29
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

That is the 156,000,000,000 dollar question. With the politics today Medical insurance, The health industry and the pharmaceutical industry have every politician intheir back pockets. Though this country is the richest in the world we blow off the people most needy. We are a country of excess yet we cannot manage to treat people with dignity. We dont need socialized medicine but we do need the government to step in and control out of control medicial cost. Medicial cost are rising 3 X faster than the standard of living increases we get for pay. The time will come when people even with insurance will not go to the doctor because the co-pays will be to much.
In the end we will all suffer.

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i can not really comment on this yet, as I have not done enough research to determine who I am going to back, but my main question this year is going to concern health insurance. When I was uninsured, it cost me 600$ a MONTH for health insurance--thats ridiculous.
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Old 12-02-2007, 02:31 PM   #30
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

I say Fred Thompson would probably be my favorite canidate, even though I'm not really big on any of them.

BTW Matt Stone and Trey Parker are Libertarians FYI.
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Old 12-02-2007, 04:41 PM   #31
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

As someone standing the outside and looking in, and someone who is more Liberal-minded than Conservative in most cases, I would have to say that Ron Paul makes the most sense of anyone running right now. He's got some great answers for some of the major issues IMO - and unlike Romney, Hunter and Thompson, he seems a lot more human - not just a stuffy guy in a suit. I kind of like McCain... but only to a point.... nowhere near enough to think about giving him a vote if I had one (plus being a member of the current government, they all have to be turfed). Giuliani was a damn good mayor, and he brings a lot of big experience to the table with him, but I'm still not convinced about his motives just yet.

Now as for the other side of the floor...I'm glad to see the US is looking like it may be ready shake the stigma of "white men only". North America in general could greatly benefit from a wider range of views than the white male holding the Veto Power stamp......... however, I just don't trust Hillary (like you can really trust any politician though), and forget the claims of Obama not having "experience, he just seems like a real push-over. Admittedly, some things that Richardson says do make sense to me, but there's just as much that I don't agree with, so if I had a vote, it wouldn't be going to him either.

With the way W. has run your country into the ground, this next election will be extremely important. The new President has a lot of clean up to take care of.



In terms of Health Care, there's absolutely no reason why one of the the wealthiest nations in the world cannot afford universal health care for it's citizens. You guys are paying through the nose for ****ty service and ever-increasing wait times, and it's inexcusable in this day and age...... I honestly think that half of the reason they're afraid to do it is because of the influx of people who would suddenly be in the waiting rooms. The other half is obviously because drug companies and insurance companies suddenly wouldn't be making billions of dollars for their share holders every year. It's just as ridiculous as the oil industry for Christ's sake. If the US government actually wanted to use a universal health care system, they could with very little problem. The problem is that they're in bed with the drug and insurance companies, and as long as they're making money, why bite the hand that feeds you?
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Old 12-02-2007, 05:45 PM   #32
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

Government health care is not the answer.
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Old 12-02-2007, 05:57 PM   #33
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

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Government health care is not the answer.
Not in any form...however, government intervention into the bloated costs is a possible solution. I've seen both my parent's recent itemized bills, and it was $90 for each defibrilation...they did it 3 times...therefor, $270 to have a battery shock you. ****, I can to that at home for free. $150 to dispose of a garbage bag they put used items in afterwards...come on...get real here. It just goes into the damn hospitals incinerator.
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Old 12-02-2007, 06:14 PM   #34
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

Correct and that is what Ron Paul wants to do.

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It is time to take back our health care. This is why I support:

* Making all medical expenses tax deductible.
* Eliminating federal regulations that discourage small businesses from providing coverage.
* Giving doctors the freedom to collectively negotiate with insurance companies and drive down the cost of medical care.
* Making every American eligible for a Health Savings Account (HSA), and removing the requirement that individuals must obtain a high-deductible insurance policy before opening an HSA.
* Reform licensure requirements so that pharmacists and nurses can perform some basic functions to increase access to care and lower costs.

By removing federal regulations, encouraging competition, and presenting real choices, we can make our health care system the envy of the world once again.
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Old 12-02-2007, 06:22 PM   #35
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Re: The Offical Election 2008 Debate Thread

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* Giving doctors the freedom to collectively negotiate with insurance companies and drive down the cost of medical care.
That will never happen...it is those high costs that let the doctors make their high salaries...an example is the the bone doctor guy back home in a very small market was given $250k to start....that is a touch steep for me...specially as much of an ******* as he was...who has since been arrested for his ties to alqueda (sp?) I might add.
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