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Old 03-10-2008, 03:46 PM   #1
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Standing Alone For What's Right

Mondoweiss: Profile in Courage: Ron Paul Says U.S. Should Not Take Sides in Cycle of Violence

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The vote was 404-1. Some day this vote will be in history books, as evidence of the miserable imbalance in our foreign policy.
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I believe it is appalling that Palestinians are firing rockets that harm innocent Israelis, just as I believe it is appalling that Israel fires missiles into Palestinian areas where children and other non-combatants are killed and injured.

Unfortunately, legislation such as this is more likely to perpetuate violence in the Middle East than contribute to its abatement. It is our continued involvement and intervention – particularly when it appears to be one-sided – that reduces the incentive for opposing sides to reach a lasting peace agreement.

Additionally, this bill will continue the march toward war with Iran and Syria, as it contains provocative language targeting these countries. The legislation oversimplifies the Israel/Palestine conflict and the larger unrest in the Middle East [emphasis Weiss's] by simply pointing the finger atIran and Syria. This is another piece in a steady series of legislation passed in the House that intensifies enmity between the U.S. and Iran and Syria. My colleagues will recall that we saw a similar steady stream of provocative legislation against Iraq in the years before the U.S. attack on that country.
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Old 03-10-2008, 07:45 PM   #2
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Re: Standing Alone For What's Right

friggin. If Israel wants to fire rockets into places and expect us to back them up, tough ****. if Iran and those idiots wanna fire rockets into Israel, then Israel should gather an army and destroy them. I hate how the US is like the older brother who has to come to everybody's god damn rescue
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Old 03-11-2008, 02:16 PM   #3
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Re: Standing Alone For What's Right

Blaa Blaa Blaa,,How dare the Israels try to live!!! After all the Palestinians are Intilted to what ever land they want.As long as it's not currently occupied by any one but Jews.Does anyone Know why the Palestinians are even in Israel??? It's because they have been kicked out of everywhere else.They can't even get along with there closest neighbors!!!Read your history people!!! Oh,and don't kid yourselves.If Israel has had enough,Israel is more then capable of turning Iran & Syria into really big craters of glass.
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Old 03-11-2008, 02:18 PM   #4
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Re: Standing Alone For What's Right

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Blaa Blaa Blaa,,How dare the Israels try to live!!! After all the Palestinians are Intilted to what ever land they want.As long as it's not currently occupied by any one but Jews.Does anyone Know why the Palestinians are even in Israel??? It's because they have been kicked out of everywhere else.They can't even get along with there closest neighbors!!!Read your history people!!! Oh,and don't kid yourselves.If Israel has had enough,Israel is more then capable of turning Iran & Syria into really big craters of glass.
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Old 03-11-2008, 02:20 PM   #5
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Re: Standing Alone For What's Right

Sorry, I ranted
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Old 03-12-2008, 02:40 AM   #6
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Re: Standing Alone For What's Right

But Seph you forget, if we interfere we are imperialistic invaders only trying to gather all the worlds oil resources. IF we don't interfere we are a selfish country only interested in our own interests such as the Iraq war and being able to have affordable oil and should be ashamed of ourselves for not helping the "little guy".

I had a Jewish friend, who wasn't even Israel yet she defended her side to the death. I tried pointing out her ignorance how if it was any other culture they'd be shut down, but somehow Israel is persecuted and therefore it's Okay to have such pride. Ugh! Ignorance and hypocrisy at it's best. Anyone with logic would have wanted to shoot themselves after that conversation.

She tried to explain that the Palestinians trying to move in were just destroying the Holy Land, I tried to explain to her that I'm sure the government (Israel) had made their living conditions hard as well as they were just being greedy and would never give it up to the Muslim or Christians. Honestly it's probably Israel's only source of tourism because why else would anyone want to go there? lol

Bottom line the world talks about peace and getting along but pride, ignorance and arrogance prevent this. People should stop pointing at the U.S. and look at themselves.

BTW Israel's army uses M16 and M16 variant rifles. If I a correct the U.S. is the only country that has them issued to their enforcement. Since Israel is heavily backed by the U.S. it seems we've made a generous donation of arms to an overrated army.
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Old 03-12-2008, 07:12 AM   #7
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Re: Standing Alone For What's Right

here's what I get from history
The roots of the conflict can be traced to the late 19th century, which saw a rise in national movements, including Zionism and Arab nationalism. Zionism, the Jewish national movement, was established as a political movement in 1897, largely as a response to Russian and European anti-Semitism.[9][10] It sought the establishment of a Jewish Nation-State in Palestine, the biblical homeland of the Jews, so that they might find sanctuary and self- determination there.[9] To this end, the World Zionist Organization and the Jewish National Fund encouraged immigration and funded purchase of land, both under Ottoman rule and under British rule, in the region of Palestine.[11]

Following World War I and the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire, Palestine came under the control of the United Kingdom through the Sykes-Picot Agreement and a League of Nations mandate. During the mandatory period, tensions between Arab and Jewish groups in the region erupted into physical violence as in the 1920 Palestine riots, the 1921 Palestine riots, the 1929 Hebron massacre and the Great Arab Revolt. These groups also directed violence against the British, as in the King David Hotel bombing and the assasinations of Lord Moyne and Count Bernadotte, in order to expel the mandatory government, which was held in contempt by both sides.

This violence and the heavy cost of World War II led Britain to turn the issue of Palestine over to the United Nations. In 1947, the U.N. approved the partition of the British Mandate of Palestine into two states: one Jewish and one Arab. The Jewish leadership accepted the plan, and on May 14, 1948, Israel declared its independence. Palestinian Arab leaders, supported by the Arab League, rejected the plan and, supported by five Arab League countries (Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Transjordan and Iraq), launched the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. The war resulted in an Israeli victory, with Israel capturing additional territory beyond the partition borders, but leaving Jerusalem as a divided city; the territory Israel did not capture was taken over by Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, and Transjordan (now Jordan). The war also resulted in the 1948 Palestinian exodus, known as Al-Naqba.

For decades after 1948, Arab governments had refused to recognize Israel and in 1964 the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was founded with the central tenet that Palestine, with its original Mandate borders, is the indivisible homeland of the Arab Palestinian people. In turn, Israel refused to recognize the PLO as a negotiating partner.

In the Six-Day War in 1967, Israel captured the West Bank from Jordan, the Gaza Strip from Egypt, and East Jerusalem including the Old City and its holy sites, which Israel annexed and reunited with the Western neighborhoods of Jerusalem. The status of the city as Israel's capital and the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip created a new set of contentious issues which became one major focus of the conflict.

The Oslo Peace Process, which began in 1993, was a key turning point in the conflict, where Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) negotiated, unsuccessfully, to come to a mutual agreement. During the Oslo process, the PLO was permitted to establish the autonomous Palestinian Authority and associated governing institutions, to run Palestinian affairs in the Gaza Strip and West Bank, with the understanding that it would uphold recognition of and mutual co-existence with Israel. However there was continual contention over whether actual events and conditions proved that there was greater acceptance of Israel's existence by Palestinian leaders [12] or a commitment by Israel to stop settlement activity in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.[13]


Nuke'em both and end the bull****
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Old 03-13-2008, 11:18 AM   #8
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Re: Standing Alone For What's Right

i'm with israel
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Old 03-13-2008, 11:23 AM   #9
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Re: Standing Alone For What's Right

It's none of our business.
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Old 03-13-2008, 11:27 AM   #10
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Re: Standing Alone For What's Right

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It's none of our business.
Exactly
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Old 03-13-2008, 12:33 PM   #11
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Re: Standing Alone For What's Right

let em blow eachother up. We know if we let Israel do its thing there wont be a middle east left for anyone to **** with.
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Old 03-13-2008, 12:40 PM   #12
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Re: Standing Alone For What's Right

I have made this case before. There are 7.241 million residents in Israel. Of this figure, 75.6% are Jewish 20% are Arab. When the Hamas or Hezbollah fire rockets they kill about 50/50 Jews to Arabs. The bigger problem is there are 232 million Arabs in countries surrounding Israel that want all Jews dead. Israel is outnumbered 33 to 1. They not only face daily attacks from Terrorist firing rockets into Israel from Lebanon but face constant threat of suicide attackes from within.

I know Israel is not always on the high road and have caused the US heartburn in the middle east but lets be real. Lebanon is not attacking Israel, terrorist in Lebanon are attacking them. There is an illegal terrorist army working inside Lebanon being supported by Iran and Syria. Hamas and Hezbollah are Terrorist Organizations officially named by the United Nations, as such what is Israel to do. Think of it this way. If Al Qaeda parked itself across the Rio Grande in Mexico and shot missles into Arizona, Texas, New Mexico and California on a daily basis. How long would it take the US before it invaded Mexico and bombed the crap out of them. How about a half a day.

I believe the Israeli government has done a lot in the past to cause some of their problems but they have given up captured land from past wars and has recently given back the Gaza Strip but Hamas Militia moved in and now fire missles from there. The Palestinians are not in control. Hamas and Hezbollah are in control and there will never be peace as long as Lebanon allows Hamas and Hezbollah to have army's of terrorist stay in their country. On Lebanon's side of things they do not have the forces to root out the terrorist. They are out numbered and out gunned. Syria when they invaded Lebanon raped the country of it's arms and equipment. If that part of the world is every going to see real peace, Syria and Iran have to be neutralized. As long as they are allowed to supply weapons and fanatical muslim fighters there will never be peace even if the Palestinians want it.

Now do I think we need to be involved. Not with the border of Israel but we do need to deal with Syria and Iran, not for Israel but for the middle east as a whole. Screw all these politicians. We need another President like Reagan or someone like Teddy Roosevelt. Bush was only half *** in his going after Terror. He should have put 500,000 troops in Irag and secured the entire country only after we reduced the country to rubble. We should have taken all the people who ran the infrustructure in Iraq and kept them on. We should have done it like we did Germany in WWII. If we had Iraq would be much better off now.

We should have put 1,000,000 Nato Troops into Afghanistan and should have been flying thousands of crop dusters over Poppy fields spraying plant killer to take money out of the hands of Taliban rebels. We should have killed every Taliban leader we captured in gun fights. Take no prisioners. To date more than 30% of the Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters captured brib local Afghan Prison officials and are released before being handed to American or NATO FORCES. This is a crock.

No we need a real American to run this country but there just is not one. None of the Candidates who have run or are running are worth a crap. I will again be voting for the least worst. I only hope that within the next 4 years Republicans come to their senses and regain there ideology of fiscal responsibility. As a Reaganite we need real people to stand up and take this country back from the people dead set in giving this country away to Mexico and China. The Europeans united into the EU and built a economic powerhouse that it is now. What they did do is lock out the cheap Chinese imports and now look. The dollar is down and the Euro is up. I am not a protectionist by any means but there is a difference in laying down rules of trade and enforcing immigration laws with limits instead of giving it all away and allowing our jobs to be lost and comnpanies forced to close because they can compete with china because they pay workers to build a stove or lawn mower what equals $10 a day.

We are at the crossroads of our future. What direction will fate take us. Do you trust the politicians on either side to do the right thing??

I dont!
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Old 03-13-2008, 01:09 PM   #13
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Re: Standing Alone For What's Right

Both sides are at fault. That doesn't mean we should be picking sides which is what we always do. We always pick Israel which leads to more anger at the US. We need to stop funding Israel and we need to stop funding all the Middle Eastern countries that we currently do.
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Old 03-13-2008, 02:18 PM   #14
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Re: Standing Alone For What's Right

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Both sides are at fault. That doesn't mean we should be picking sides which is what we always do. We always pick Israel which leads to more anger at the US. We need to stop funding Israel and we need to stop funding all the Middle Eastern countries that we currently do.
Humm dont pick sides??? So you believe Iran and Syria have all reasons to be there pushing the damn buttons. You are a fence sitter. Doing nothing is doing nothing but keeping this ongoing conflict alive. No we dont need to put troops on the Israel Lebanon Border but while Iran funnels bilions of dollars in oil money to Hamas and Hezbollah Terrorist we are to do nothing BULLCRAP!! We will support Israel in Arms and military assistance with Satellite images and spy op's intel. As far as funding the middle east that is rather oversimplified. When you and all of us cut our consumption of energies by 40% we will never be able to stop funding of Terror or the middle east and if we stop assisting Saudia Arabia we will just allow China and Russia resume supplying the Arab countries with arms and that is unacceptable

Ron Paul is a fence sitter and his policies would have been fence sitting. America cannot afford to fence sit. If you do you will wake up with the barbarians at the gates. That is totally unacceptable.
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Old 03-13-2008, 02:26 PM   #15
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Re: Standing Alone For What's Right

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Humm dont pick sides??? So you believe Iran and Syria have all reasons to be there pushing the damn buttons. You are a fence sitter. Doing nothing is doing nothing but keeping this ongoing conflict alive. No we dont need to put troops on the Israel Lebanon Border but while Iran funnels bilions of dollars in oil money to Hamas and Hezbollah Terrorist we are to do nothing BULLCRAP!!
Yes! That's exactly what we should do. Absolutely nothing. We are the ones responsible for what Iran is today. We are responsible for what Pakistan is today. We are responsible for the reason we are in Iraq today. We put Saddam in power. We funded Saddam during the Iran/Iraq war. We gave 3x more money in aide to Middle Eastern countries than we do to Israel.

We don't pick sides, we support everyone. Everyone that is in the middle east as been our ally at one point. If we attack Iran we will be shooting our own ****ing planes out of the sky because we gave them to them!

This strategic picking of sides has never worked. It always comes back to haunt us. It's time we stop trying to influence things that happen in the Middle East. The reason it's such a ****ty place today is because we made it that way.

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We will support Israel in Arms and military assiatance with Satellite images and spy op's intel.
Then you will NEVER have anything close to peace in the Middle East without genocide of the Palestinians. That's the only way you are going to stop them if you don't stop supporting their sworn enemy and let the people actually involved in this dispute fight it out themselves without any input from the United States. It's not our fight.

I'm sick of sending money to the middle east. I'm sick of sending money to Israel. I'm sick of sending weapons to countries that end up using them against us 20 years down the road.

As far as funding the middle east that is rather oversimplified. When you and all of us cut or spending of energies by 40% we will never be able to stop funding of Terror or the middle east and if we stop assistaning Saudia Arabia we will just allow China and Russia resume supplying the Arab countries with arms and that is unacceptable[/QUOTE]

There are loads of stuff we can do to stop terror in the Middle East. The most important thing is to stop sticking our nose where it doesn't belong and trying to install "Democracy" where it isn't welcomed.
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Old 03-13-2008, 03:27 PM   #16
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Re: Standing Alone For What's Right

You are vastly wrong on so many levels. We dont get burned every time we pick sides. We picked Englands side in WWII and it cost us dearly but with the billions spent and the lives lost not to be speaking German or Japanese now was well worth it. See Sen Joe Kennedy and a bunch of fence sitters wanted to sign a neutrality pack with the Germans not to get involved. We didn't want any part of it and Joe Kennedy's Presidental aspirations were killed.

Who does not welcome Democracy. Iran does. You read way to much one sided news. You think people in Iraq liked being under a dictator who picked and choosed who lived and died, who had jobs and who didn't, wanted badly to grab the Saudi oil fields controlling 1/4 of the worlds oil, who murdered entire villages. For the first time in 100 years IraqI's have the ability to control their own destiny if they can ease the minds of disgruntled Sunni's and help us eliminate the insurgents who desperately want to stop Democracy dead in it's tracks from spreading. But it is to late. As in Russia and now what is happening in China, once you allow partial freedom you just can't stop it, The door will swing wide open.

Until we stop buying 60% of the oil we use from OPEC we will never stop funding the very people who want to destroy us, but Americans are to self centered and materialistic to stop the insanity and just stop using so much energy. We drive nowwhere for no reason other to fill our pityfull lives with pleasure.

You stop supporting Israel and the Terror cells will win and there will be no stopping them. We will have ideology wars for years envolving the whole would. Remember it is not just war it is Genocide the Fanatical Muslims want and you want to let them have what they want. That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. So you dont mind fighting Muslims in the streets of the US? Screw that!

I would love for us to have the chance to destroy all the weapons Iran has gotten from us during the Iran Iraq war. That would end the worry about them using them against us. They are blow hards wanting to burn Israel and America to the ground. They must go.

Sorry we did not make the arab world ****ty. Europeans did. They owned them and abused them just as the french did to the vietnamese. We are the ones who are called on to pick up the pieces and that has not been all that good for us but that is the facts. We never colonized the Arab world nor the Asian world. France, England and Spain tried to rule the world. America is all about carrying on with our lives but do not stand for anyone to try and hurt or destabilize our lives. When we are attacked or affected by actions of others we will respond and we have been fairly successful in doing so.
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Old 03-13-2008, 04:23 PM   #17
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Re: Standing Alone For What's Right

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You are vastly wrong on so many levels. We dont get burned every time we pick sides. We picked Englands side in WWII and it cost us dearly but well with the billions spent and the lives lost not to be speaking German or Japanese now.
WE AREN'T TALKING ABOUT ENGLAND. We are talking about the Middle East. We have been burned EVERY time we have gotten involved in Middle Eastern diplomacy. We fund Bin Laden and then he sends 20 guys over here to hijack our planes and fly them into buildings. We fund Saddam and then he pulls us into a 12 Billion dollar a month war. We fund Pakistan and overthrow an elected government over there and put a Military dictator into power. Now that Military dictator can't account for 10 Billion dollars we sent them and is on the verge of being throw out buy his own people.

Everything we do over there turns to ****. Our policies are not working. We are actually farther away from peace in the Middle East than we have ever been.

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See Sen Joe Kennedy and a bunch of fence sitters wanted to sign a neutrality pack with the Germans not to get involved. We didn't want any part of it and Joe Kennedy's Presidental aspirations will killed.
Unlike the 1940's the Israels have plenty of power to stop an offensive, without our help, from a Middle Eastern country. They have nuclear weapons and an air force that is second only to ours. This is not World War II.


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Who does not welcome Democracy. Iran does. You read way to much one sided news. You think people in Iraq liked being under a dictator who picked and choosed who lived and died, who had jobs and who didn't, wanted badly to grab the Saudi oil fields controlling 1/4 of the worlds oil, who murdered entire villages. For the first time in 100 yeras IraqI's have the ability to control their own destiny if they can get ease the minds of disgruntled Sunni's and help us eliminate the insurgents who desperately want to stop Democracy dead in it's tracks from spreading. But it is to late. As in Russia and now what is happening in China, once you allow partial freedom you just cants stop it, The door willswing wide open.
If these people want Democracy, LET THEM GET IT THEMSELVES. It's not our job to police the world and tell established countries how to behave and how to run their government. It's not our job. I'm tired of the government wasting my tax dollars and I'm tired of them costing U.S. soldiers lives because this country wants to instill democracy overseas.

By the way, if you believe we are in Iraq because we want to make it a better place you are the one that is vastly wrong. George Bush doesn't give a **** about the Iraqi civilians. When he made his case for this war it was because they were a direct threat to our national security. They were harboring Al qida. We went to war based on these reasons. When those reasons turned out to be completely false he fell back on "We are trying to promote Democracy overseas".

The concept that a foreign country can install democracy into another country by force is insane and it hasn't worked ONCE in the Middle East. There is no true Democracy in the Middle East and there never will be. Especially if we keep getting involved.

I don't listen to one sided news. I'm ****ing sick and tired of being told that everytime I have an opposing view to a "Republican".

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Until we stop buying 60% of the oil we use from OPEC wqe will never stop funding the very people who want to destroy us, but Americans are to self centered and materialistic to stop the insanity and just stop using so much energy. We drive nowwhere for no reason other to fill our pityfull lives with pleasure.
Until we stop giving them money ON TOP of the 60% of the oil we use from OPEC..... just because we buy oil from the Middle East doesn't mean it's ok to send them additional billions of dollars.

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You stop supporting Israel and the Terror cells will win and there will be no stopping them.
No they won't. We are supporting the terror cells because we keep supporting the countries that harbor them. The majority of the hi jackers were from Saudi Arabia. Yet we keep sending money to Saudi Arabia and keep pretending they are an ally.

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We will have ideology wars for years envolving the whole would. Remember it is not just war it is Genocide the Fanatical Muslims want and you want to let them have what they want. That is the stupidest thing I ahve ever heard. So you dont mind fighting Muslims in the streets of the US? Screw that!
Have you lost it? How does not supporting Israel and the Middle East suddenly mean we are going to be fighting Muslims in the United States? That's the dumbest **** I have ever heard. You sound like you are working for the White House with this scare tactic bull****.

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I would love for us to have the chance to destroy all the weapons Iran has they got fromus during the Iran Iraq war. That would end the worry about them using them against us. They are blow hards wanting to burnIsrael and America to the ground. They must go.
Wanting to do something is not the same as doing! God you are acting like Iran is some super power. Their a slightly more developed Iraq. We ****ed Iraq over in two weeks. If Iran were to ever engage Israel it would be the end of their military. A suicide attack. This preemptive war mentality has got to go. It's like no one have learned the lessons from Iraq. Let's just go bomb more Middle Eastern countries. Good grief.

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Sorry we did not make the arab world ****ty.
Yes we did. And we are continuing to do it every day. Every day that we believe we can attack a Middle Eastern country and instill democracy is another step away from Democracy and peace in the Middle East. The Middle East is not Europe in the 1940's. It never will be. Their methods of government and their religion hinder them too much to rise up and organize an attempt at doing something that was done in the 1940's. It's not going to happen. No one has any indication that it will happen. It's a bunch of **** hole desert countries who can't even make the most out of the gold mine they have in oil.

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They owned them and abused them just as the french did to the vietnamese. We are the ones who are called on to pick up the pieces and that has not been all that good for us but that is the facts. We never colonized the Arab world nor the Asian world. France, England and Spain tried to rule the world. America is all about carrying on with our lives but do not stand for anyone to try and hurt or destabilize our lives. When we are attacked or effected by actions of others we will respond and we have been fairly successful in doing so.

We aren't picking up the pieces. We are creating more pieces. Not a damn thing has improved in the Middle East since George Bush's dumbass took office. Everything is worse. Iraq is a gigantic 12 Billion dollar a month **** up with no end in sight. He has made threats to Iran and Syria. War hasn't rallied Iraqi civilians to fight for themselves. They will never fight for their country. There is too much divide between the Kurds and Shiites. Hell, Turkey just crossed into Iraq not even 2 weeks ago and launched an attack on the Northern Kurds.

Until America wakes up and realizes that this country can't survive doing the things it's currently doing we are going to be in a world of hurt and even more vulnerable than we were on September 11,2001. Our borders are still unsecured and Congress is worried about MLB and the NFL. We attack countries unprovoked in the name of Democracy. It's a bunch of bull**** that has never worked and never will.
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