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Old 04-09-2014, 01:03 PM   #36
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Yeah the Z28 is impressive, but omfg money... I still think its amusing to see Bruce Griggs' 98 Cobra with the SRA still in it posting faster lap times than prepped Ferraris. All in how much you spend. I'm still not ok with GM after this last recall. That's not only negligent, someone needs to go to jail for a LONG time when you are putting cars you know are dangerous out on the road for as long as they have been.
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Old 04-09-2014, 02:40 PM   #37
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Agreed, their failure to act on a known problem that is responsible for ending the lives of over 30 people is horrible. I personally think those responsible should face criminal justice. Also, it's just another black eye for GM. In a few years time, this will all be forgotten about.

That said, look back at Ford with the Pinto. It was something over 200 people died over a $13 part. Ford did the math and put each life valued at $200,000. Then figured that in paying the money for each life lost, in total they would spend about 1/3 of what actually fixing the issue would have cost.

Without getting into ethics, it all comes down to the risk/benefit factor. All large corporations do this..
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Old 04-09-2014, 07:04 PM   #38
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Need some comebacks for a friend who drives a 2012 corvette . He is always saying things like fix or repair daily ,etc. Need some come backs to shut him up
The next time that you see "vette boy" with his big nose stuck up way in the air, just say, "Hey Gramps? Nice car! The only thing that you're missing is the "My other car is a Rascal scooter" license plate frame...
Vette boy: "What are you talking about?"
You: "Old men drive Corvettes. What's next? Are you going to upgrade to a Cadillac CTSV because it's too hard to get in and out of your vette?
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Old 04-09-2014, 07:37 PM   #39
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I assume the second gear lockout is actually the 1-4 skip shift?

If so, all you need to do is give it more than 1/4 throttle and you can shift to whatever gear you like. I have been in numerous Corvettes and Camaros over the years, nobody has mentioned it being an issue.

As for the fiberglass car needed to beat a Mustang ... seriously? The Corvette has been a fiberglass car since it's inception in '53. The Mustang didn't come out until '64. GM must have hired precogs to forsee that they would need a fiberglass bodied car to compete with an upcoming pony car from Ford..

You could also look back at the 80's 90's and early 2000's. The GM cars were so far ahead of the Mustangs that it took until the new 5.0 for Ford to make a car that was capable of putting down the same or better numbers with an NA engine (excluding Cobra R).

As for the current Camaro not being in the same league as the Mustangs... really? Currently, in a straight line, the Mustangs are faster (the V6 Mustang destroys the V6 Camaro, the GT and SS could go either way and the GT500 dominates the ZL1) . However, once braking and turning are factored in, the Camaro is faster than anything Ford has ever built for production, including the Ford GT supercar.

I find it rather amusing that the lowly Camaro 1LE with it's 426hp is faster than both the 2013 Shelby GT500 and the Boss LS around a race track.

Who did this comparison Ish?
These track tests are far more difficult to judge the performance of a vehicle by than acceleration tests. Haha. You can take, literally, seconds off of lap times just with the tire choices. Im guessing that the Fords had those POS Pirelli's that they came with from the factory.
There is no mention of who the driver or drivers were.
It's, hardly, a scientific way of comparing performance...
Don't get me wrong, I have no doubt about the capabilities of the overpriced Camaro factory race cars, but, since you want to throw out the Cobra R, how about we throw those out of the equation as well.
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Old 04-09-2014, 09:27 PM   #40
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The Cobra R does not even come close to touching the Boss' lap times so no idea why anyone would throw out the 00R. It was great for its day but it can't touch anything out now without the same prep any SN95 needs to compete with newer cars today.

I also keep hearing that the GT500 brakes are an issue for lapping like this. I guess the 6 puck omfg Brembos are not any good?
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Old 04-09-2014, 09:34 PM   #41
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The Cobra R does not even come close to touching the Boss' lap times so no idea why anyone would throw out the 00R. It was great for its day but it can't touch anything out now without the same prep any SN95 needs to compete with newer cars today.

I also keep hearing that the GT500 brakes are an issue for lapping like this. I guess the 6 puck omfg Brembos are not any good?

The GT500 brakes fade quickly after a lap or 2
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Old 04-09-2014, 11:11 PM   #42
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The Cobra R does not even come close to touching the Boss' lap times so no idea why anyon would throw out the 00R. It was great for its day but it can't touch anything out now without the same prep any SN95 needs to compete with newer cars today.

I also keep hearing that the GT500 brakes are an issue for lapping like this. I guess the 6 puck omfg Brembos are not any good?
Lol.
l was using Ish's exception of the Cobra R from the Mustang line up when comparing performance between Mustangs and Camaro's. I know that on paper the 00 R is no match for a Boss 302, but neither is my Bullitt yet it consistently wins against a Boss 302 at the autocross.
And, I have never seen a 5th gen Camaro show up that was even mildly competitive.

For the cost of one of those fancy racetrack Camaro's, hell, you'd have to be a lunatic to not just wrap your *** in fiberglass...
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Old 04-10-2014, 12:38 AM   #43
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Lol.
l was using Ish's exception of the Cobra R from the Mustang line up when comparing performance between Mustangs and Camaro's. I know that on paper the 00 R is no match for a Boss 302, but neither is my Bullitt yet it consistently wins against a Boss 302 at the autocross.
And, I have never seen a 5th gen Camaro show up that was even mildly competitive.

For the cost of one of those fancy racetrack Camaro's, hell, you'd have to be a lunatic to not just wrap your *** in fiberglass...
If you read, I mentioned that the Cobra R was the only NA Mustang to produce more power than the 4th gen Fbodies until the arrival of the Coyote 5.0. I made no mention of it on a race track as I believe a standard GT would be capable of producing faster laps.

I will post it again so you can re-read it.

"You could also look back at the 80's 90's and early 2000's. The GM cars were so far ahead of the Mustangs that it took until the new 5.0 for Ford to make a car that was capable of putting down the same or better numbers with an NA engine (excluding Cobra R)."


It is well known that the Boss is the best track car Ford has. The Shelby is much faster than all the Camaros and Mustangs in a straight line, as indicated by the MPH on the picture I posted. However, all of the Mustangs simply get outclassed in handling and braking. It's that simple.

Car and Drivers Lightning lap @ Virgina international Raceway - Lightning Lap 2013: Hot Cars, Hot Track, Hot Laps - - Car and Driver

Scroll down to tale of the tape.

Remember VIR is a very fast track that likes power.

Of note
#17 - Camaro ZL1 - 2:57.5

#27 - Ford Shelby GT 500 (2013) - 3:00.6

#28 - Ford GT - 3:00.7

#32 - Camaro SS 1LE - 3:01.5 - Road and Track was able to achieve a 2:58.34

#36 - Mustang Boss 302 Laguna Seca - 3:02.8

#68 - Mustang GT 5.0 with Brembo package - 3:08.6

#88 - Mustang V6 Performance Package (2011) - 3:12.5 (was banging on 114 MPH speed limiter for more than 15 seconds per lap.)

#89 - Chevrolet Cobalt SS (turbo) - 3:13.0 (assuming the key stayed in and you weren't killed)

#91 - Mustang GT 2010 Track Pack - 3:13.3
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Old 04-10-2014, 02:41 AM   #44
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I read and understood it completely the first time... It was the context of that paragraph that was slightly contradictory.
Again, Car@driver and all of the other mags are driving around in, basically, rental cars, that the manufacturers are providing them with, that have been passed around all year for reviewing purposes. These cars recieve varying degrees of maintenance depending on the manufacturers desire to A. Spend the money on maintenance. And B. Turn fast lap times. And by maintenance, I mean mostly tires...
Ford cheaped out on tires from the start on the entire line of Mustangs. The "Zero" in P zero stands for the amount of traction...
Chevy wins because they're using better tire and wheel setups than Ford is... Right from the factory!

Look, I'm not saying a Mustang will beat a Camaro using exactly the same tires, I don't know that.
What I'm saying is, these track times could vary wildly with just the addition of stickier tires. The time differences between some of these cars could get down to tenths instead of seconds if they were on comparable tires.
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Old 04-10-2014, 06:28 AM   #45
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This is where I'd usually make an Obama/GM joke, but the truth is that Obama prefers Mustangs.

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Old 04-10-2014, 06:36 AM   #46
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This is where I'd usually make an Obama/GM joke, but the truth is that Obama prefers Mustangs.

Attachment 153475
I remember that picture. Detroit Auto show he was there to talk up GM and the Volt and this is the picture they used as a press release. I almost fell over laughing when I saw it.
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Old 04-10-2014, 06:44 AM   #47
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I do know the Chevy has better brakes from multiple sources and that is the reason they are faster IMO. I have 0 clue why a 6 puck 14" Brembo setup sucks so much on the stang but w/e... I suppose if you are spending that much money you can upgrade to an even better brake setup and not have it hurt your wallet too much.

However you have to remember that these are all heavy pony cars (well the Z28 is light I hear). If you want a serious serious road racing car you may want to start with a FD RX7 if you can find a good shell or if not then a FC and drop a LS2/3 into it. I need to dig it up but I had an in car video of one that was nicknamed "the Gorilla" that was making prepped GT3s look like they were stock SN95 Mustangs at the road race course lol. And that only had a bolt on LS6 at the time or so the owner claimed.

Here are some pics I saved of it back when I was in my "must do the FD LS1 build" phase of my life which never panned out lol. After looking at these pics again... I dunno I still may try to find a good FD roller one day and shoot for the moon.













^Pretty much perfection right there, not sure how you could get much better besides swapping in a LS7, which he apparently did after these pics were taken.
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Old 04-10-2014, 08:43 AM   #48
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Old 04-11-2014, 04:40 PM   #49
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If I don't buy a plane next year, I very well may build an FD with an LS3..

I have wanted an FD since I was 10. A friend and I bought an FD years ago that had 30,000 miles with a blown engine, we took the car to Banzai Racing (Pierceton, Indiana) had the engine bridge ported and stepped up the turbos for more boost (different impellers), full exhaust and FMIC.

That car was seriously fast for only 370 rwhp (could have easily been 420+ with better fuel and more aggressive tune). It had power from 1500 rpm to 8000 rpm. It was so fast that the passenger side airbag came out of the dash and landed in my lap.

We made about $5000 on that car in less than a month, only had it running for 2 weeks before we sold it. I think we each drove the car for about 80 miles.

I have wanted another since, but with a big LSx.
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Old 04-11-2014, 05:06 PM   #50
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Yep, those FD are badass!

So, to take this a little further off topic... What kind of airplane are you considering Ish?
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Old 04-14-2014, 10:14 AM   #51
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Yep, those FD are badass!

So, to take this a little further off topic... What kind of airplane are you considering Ish?
Probably start off with a Cessna 172/177/182 or Piper Cherokee.
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Old 04-14-2014, 10:19 AM   #52
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I have a radio controlled airplane I still need to finish/fly lol.
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Old 04-14-2014, 01:07 PM   #53
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Probably start off with a Cessna 172/177/182 or Piper Cherokee.
I did my primary training through the solo in a Piper Tomahawk (Or "Traumahawk" as we referred to it ) and then finished my private in Archer II's, so I have a preference for low wing aircraft but I like flying Cessnas, the view is nice and they feel like trucks compared to Pipers.
I like flying anything though!
I'm a typical airplane junkie...
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Old 04-14-2014, 01:22 PM   #54
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I have a radio controlled airplane I still need to finish/fly lol.
Haha.
I have a Multiplex Easy star that I fly a few times a week. It's my second one, I destroyed the first one teaching myself to fly it! It was far more difficult to learn to fly than an actual airplane, for me anyway. It was hard to learn how to properly control the airplane by watching it from the outside that gave me the most problems.
It's s blast though!

What type are you working on Scotty?
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Old 04-14-2014, 01:59 PM   #55
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Eh, just something to get me back into it. I had a trainer and a big stick and an extra 300 at one point. Got an advanced trainer going together if I ever finish it. Problem is all the clubs these days are all old ppl stuck in the 80s and the last one I wanted to join had an impound area for 2.4 ghz radios... Um... no, the whole point of a 2.4 ghz radio is you don't need to do that **** anymore. Not to mention that I've seen radios up an vanish from those tables and mine is a nice 9 channel digital telemetry etc... one. I tell them I can look at my altitude/fuel/heading etc... right on the radio and half of them look very confused.

I'd go rogue and fly on my own if I had the land but even still if you lose control of that airplane and you kill someone you will likely go to prison. If it happens at a legit club with insurance and you have an AMA membership all that happens is the AMA pays out the claim and nothing happens to you.
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Old 04-14-2014, 02:17 PM   #56
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I did my primary training through the solo in a Piper Tomahawk (Or "Traumahawk" as we referred to it ) and then finished my private in Archer II's, so I have a preference for low wing aircraft but I like flying Cessnas, the view is nice and they feel like trucks compared to Pipers.
I like flying anything though!
I'm a typical airplane junkie...
If I come across a really good deal on a Tomahawk or 150/152 I might go that route. However, as a larger individual, I would rather go with a slightly larger plane. I also think a 4 seater (if you want to call them that) just makes more sense financially.
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Old 04-14-2014, 02:54 PM   #57
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At my old house I was fortunate to be able to fly from my backyard although it wasn't an ideal place to learn. I became expert at retrieving it from the tops of trees. I live on a walnut orchard now so it's a challenge to fly it there, but possible. The town where I live now closed the city airport so I mostly go there to fly it.
I feel the same way about the clubs... And I'm one of those "eighties" guys! Lol. All of the rules and regulations, it's just not for me...
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Old 04-14-2014, 09:06 PM   #58
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Yeah I'd just be afraid about losing control and it flies a mile away into someone's window and kills a kid or something if I did it even remotely close to houses. When I was first learning our club was deep in a wildlife preserve and the planes would probably run out of gas before getting anywhere near a residential area or crash.
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Old 04-15-2014, 01:19 AM   #59
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If I come across a really good deal on a Tomahawk or 150/152 I might go that route. However, as a larger individual, I would rather go with a slightly larger plane. I also think a 4 seater (if you want to call them that) just makes more sense financially.
I do NOT recommend the Tomahawk!!! They're kind of dangerous little airplanes. I actually witnessed a fatal accident of one. They don't have the nickname "Traumahawk" for nothing. And if you ever have the opportunity to look back during a stall in one, and watch the T-tail shake... It will scare the hell out of you!
The 182 will carry an excellent load, it's really like a station wagon. Its a rock solid airplane but it burns a lot of fuel with the 6 cyl.
I've always liked the Archers. They also carry a good load and are reasonably fast and efficient for a fixed gear plane.
Yeah, the rest on your list are two or three seat airplanes, in reality, with full fuel anyways.
I used to fly a Piper Arrow that had a strange weight and balance where the CG would be too far forward with full fuel and only front seat passengers. You could carry full fuel with the pilot only aboard or with at least one passenger in the rear seat. This was due to radio equipment installed in the airplane.
I also used to fly a 152 with a 125 hp Lycoming engine swap. Haha. That was a fun airplane! It would perform about like an Aerobat. And it was placarded to run continuously at 300 rpm above redline so it made you feel like you were flying a hot rod.
Lol
I could go on all night!
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Old 04-15-2014, 03:23 AM   #60
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Yeah I'd just be afraid about losing control and it flies a mile away into someone's window and kills a kid or something if I did it even remotely close to houses. When I was first learning our club was deep in a wildlife preserve and the planes would probably run out of gas before getting anywhere near a residential area or crash.
My Multiplex is electric and weighs 28 ounces iirc. If it loses the signal from the transmitter, everything turns off, and the engine wont turn back on, even if the signal is regained, until the throttle is cycled back to off and then on again... Nothing is foolproof though... ESPECIALLY WITH ME!!!
I have lost control of the airplane while it was in flight. The battery connector came loose and everything just turned off... Nothing... I just stood there watching, wondering where it would land. Luckily, it was trimmed to do a circling descent so it stayed in the general vicinity of my house and the area that I was flying it over was acres of open space, But, this was a large subdivision and there were several neighbors easily within gliding distance.
Yep. I was lucky. Not only did it not end up heading into a dangerous direction... I GOT MY AIRPLANE BACK!!! I had to climb up a steep *** hill to do it though... I was just glad I didn't have to climb a tree after climbing the hill.
Multiplex are made of foam and they have a reasonably slow stall speed because they're light so I think that it's an acceptable risk after becoming somewhat proficient. I would never consider flying a heavier gas plane at the places that I fly mine.
You'll get a kick out of this Scotty. Last week, I was flying my plane at the airport, which, the old runway is now a city street, in the little town that I'm living in, and this dude shows up with a Black Lab while I'm making low passes down the runway. The dog starts chasing my plane down the entire length of what's left of the runway. Haha. The dog was about 4 or 5 feet behind the plane. I went around and made about 3 more low passes about 4 feet off the ground. He almost caught the plane on one pass but I pulled up at the last minute...
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Old 04-15-2014, 06:43 AM   #61
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Old 04-15-2014, 07:06 AM   #62
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Lol nice. I do not have any foamies, mine is whatever the Great Planes stunt trainer is called I seriously need to go down in the basement and look at the name or just stop being lazy and go google it. Its a semi symmetrical airfoil wing with flaps etc... Pretty much a big stik except a trainer... if that makes sense.

Engine is a first run Evolution .46cc gas (yes gas) 2 stroke because glow fuel has become "**** you" expensive since I stopped flying years ago. Even 0% nitro is like $18/gallon. Apparently you can mix your own glow for half that if you are near a drag strip and can buy pure methanol but with 2 stroke oil from Amazon and regular 87 octane it works out to like $4/gal for a gas engine and gas engines have double or triple the fuel economy of glow.

Radio is Turnigy 9x. This is the radio that basically made digital mutli channel programmable radios available to anyone who doesn't want to drop $1k on a mid level JR or something. They are a Chinese brand but not a knock off, they are their own thing. FrSky is now making crazy radios for pretty cheap too. Anyway, $50 for the transmitter, $30 for the telemetry module, $30 for the smartieboard (aftermarket board to allow custom firmware/programming) and $20 for the telemetrEZ board to activate the telemetry features. I have under $200 in a 9 channel, fully programmable and modifiable telemetry radio. This is a $1000+ radio if you were to buy it new from JR/Futaba and it works like a champ with a FrSky telemetry 2.4gzh receiver. Also has I think a 10 model memory so I can switch from the trainer to whatever else I get and have all my trim/switches programmed with the flick of a button.

Another really cool feature I've liked messing with even with the incomplete airplane is making the flaps work with the ailerons via the flaperon mixing function. This also allows me to make any aircraft I buy have "flaps" even if it doesn't come with them since I can just have the ailerons come down a bit on their own for landings while still having enough range of motion to control roll. Man... I need to go finish that damn thing, run it, trim it and they go find a club that does not suck.
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2000 Mustang GT Steeda #0048

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Old 04-15-2014, 07:08 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mystang50 View Post
I now feel like I'm an airplane expert
Hah, don't get me rambling about the systems on my jets or some of the crazy **** I've seen pilots do with an aircraft with a max gross takeoff weight of 585,000lbs. And that's not including wartime contingency weight...
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2000 Mustang GT Steeda #0048

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