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Old 04-28-2004, 03:07 PM   #1
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Damn Rockers

Well anyone who is into performance DO NOT BY FROM CAT inc. Anyway i was driving down to get to my auto body class when what do you know my engine decides to get 1 hell of a bigger cam jk. After thinking it might be a plug wire i replace it and makes no difference. Then i went ahead and pulled the valve covers off and to my surprise i found the rocker. Then i was looking around and found 2 more of them were pretty ****ed up. good thing they didnt **** up my valves. Still couldent find some of the pieces of the rocker. So im going to do a oil change asap. I am now going to buy the comp cams ones as so i heard better reviews.
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Old 04-28-2004, 03:34 PM   #2
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Moral of the story "DO NOT BUY BUDGET VALVETRAIN COMPONENTS PERIOD!!!!!!!!!"

As you can see they are no budget. In 20 plus years in building I have only once used cheap components and I destroyed an engine in the process.
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Old 04-28-2004, 03:41 PM   #3
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straight on thats the last budget buy im doing. that was the only cheap thing i bought and it could have distroyed the engine. my plan was to do a budget build so i spent a ton of money on the lower end and the heads cam etc. put some cheap *** rockers on it thinking i could get away with it till i had money for full rollers and then the unexpected happend.
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Old 04-28-2004, 04:50 PM   #4
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Funny, this exact problem was just talked about on a Mopar forum I visit. Only these were CAT stainless shaft mounted rockers, welded themselves to the shafts and punched a hole 2 pistons.

I am real hesitant to buy any Chinese made parts myself.

Steve
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Old 04-28-2004, 09:06 PM   #5
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my buddy had some cheap pushrods in his 90 firebird, and some stiff valve springs, so the car would idle good, he give it a rev, and it would miss like hell, he went through i dont know how many pushrods trying to figure out his problem

guys a numbnut anyways
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Old 04-28-2004, 11:56 PM   #6
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so what was the cause? tq specs plus eleventy billion other factors could have played a role, not just a crappy tolerance cheap part.
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Old 04-29-2004, 05:44 AM   #7
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every tolerance was checked and rechecked the way i did it was make sure the lifter is down and tighten the rockers till the pushrod cant be turned by hand then make another 1/4 to 1/2 turn to tighten. Then check the lash on it. Somthing like that (cant remember to early) Anyway alot of people ran into the same problem with these look alike comp cams ones. They are just poor qualitly. I would not recomend these to anyone unless you want to break parts in your engine. I also have edelbrocks 23 degree head on it with guide plates and hardened push rods. may have caused a problem because of the spring rate. I am unsure but i know the comp cams ones will work great.
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Old 04-29-2004, 09:29 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Toxinz
every tolerance was checked and rechecked the way i did it was make sure the lifter is down and tighten the rockers till the pushrod cant be turned by hand then make another 1/4 to 1/2 turn to tighten.
I hope you misspoke here. Because you tighten the rocker down till you feel drag on the pushrod then another 1/4-1/2 turn. You don't tighten it down till you can't turn the pushrod by hand.

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Old 04-29-2004, 10:01 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponycarman
I hope you misspoke here. Because you tighten the rocker down till you feel drag on the pushrod then another 1/4-1/2 turn. You don't tighten it down till you can't turn the pushrod by hand.

Steve
Actually if they are a little tight and he had hydraulic lifters it really is not going to be the reason the rocker failed. For the most part Hydraulic lifters will self adjust. But if he was using solid lifters that is another story and could have caused higher pressures and might have helped in the rocker failure

Because of the constant need for relashing the rockers most people do not use solid lifters and are really used on track cars.
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Old 04-29-2004, 10:09 AM   #10
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Well, since I don't know how far you gotta tighten down the rocker before you can't turn the pushrod anymore and how that'll affect the geometry I can't say if it would or wouldn't have cause his problems.

If the lifters were dry when the adjustment was down I suppose it is possible that it got bottomed out. Also, I wonder what the clearance was between the rocker stud and the slot at full lift, I looks to me that could have been a problem based on the bottom of the rocker being ripped off the body.

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Old 04-29-2004, 10:18 AM   #11
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Actually that looks like a typical casting defect which caused the fatigue or stress failure. As a Aerospace Quality Engineer with background in Metallurgy and stress/fatigue failures this is a classic example.

Look at the pick of the breakout on the bottom of the rocker. You will see shiney course area and darker area. That darker area is where there was a crack for some time allowing the oil to penetrate and darken the area. That is the area that failed. By the eyeball observation it appears that the dark area was a flaw at casting.
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Old 04-29-2004, 10:33 AM   #12
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Ah, I see what you are talking about, but I wonder if it's just oil that flowed over that area and darkened it rather than an old break. Hard to tell with just a picture. That oil looks nasty, as does the crud built up on the rocker.

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Old 04-29-2004, 10:57 AM   #13
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No if you look at my post again I put up the picture. If you look at it the breakout the black has a glazed look where the oil has penetrated the metal. Look at the shiney coarse area that is rough looking and then look at the dark area that is smooth looking. If it was a complete breakout do to excessive valvetrain pressure it would all be rough but it is smooth and that is a telltale sign of a casting flaw.

Typically what causes this is during the metal casting process a void appears because impurities in the metal do not allow for a good bonding of metal at the molecular level causing the casting void. Being that the dark area was smooth is a dead giveaway that is was there at casting
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Old 04-29-2004, 11:50 AM   #14
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ok, I see it, good eyes.

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Old 04-29-2004, 02:08 PM   #15
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ok, I see it, good eyes.

Steve
All i got to say is damn we got some good engineers in here. Never would have thought that looking at the split would have shown the reason. However very good observation and i am almost sure you are 100% correct. oh yes by the way a said the wrong thing above. I tightened it down to the point where it draged and then tightened ti 1/4 to 1/2 turn. sorry about that i was half dead at 6 am.
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