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Old 11-01-2008, 11:03 AM   #36
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Re: Bar Stool Economics

250k, er....200k....er...150k...er...




And in case you think it is spin because mccain is in the video...

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Old 11-01-2008, 02:45 PM   #37
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Re: Bar Stool Economics

I think Biden is trying to hint towards the truth more than everyone is giving him credit for...

Just remember in 4 years when this country has gone through Hell from Obama's little tax plans that I didn't vote for him. I'm not making anywhere near close enough to be screwed by either plan...but still.
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Old 11-01-2008, 02:47 PM   #38
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Re: Bar Stool Economics

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lmao. We will see. If CNN has a bias towards Obama then Foxnews is licking on McCains nuts. We will see what happens.

No where in there though did it talk about lowering the income level for raising taxes.
You really don't think CNN is biased towards Obama?

That's like saying Fox News never mentions McCain's name....

I haven't seen a news network yet that actually gives the truth. Kinda have to watch both...cross out the stuff they both talk about and weed through what is left.
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Old 11-01-2008, 03:19 PM   #39
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Re: Bar Stool Economics

I never said they weren't. But they have FAR more balance in the people they hire. Just look at Lou Dobbs for instance. Foxnews has what? Alan Colmes? Foxnews is incredibly bias to Republicans. Incredibly. Of course all the major news networks have a bias but Foxnews doesn't even try to hide it. CNN at least offers a balance in the middle.
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Old 11-01-2008, 03:21 PM   #40
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Re: Bar Stool Economics

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I think Biden is trying to hint towards the truth more than everyone is giving him credit for...

Just remember in 4 years when this country has gone through Hell from Obama's little tax plans that I didn't vote for him. I'm not making anywhere near close enough to be screwed by either plan...but still.
We are already in hell. 10 trillion dollars worth of it. Thanks to Republicans.

Yet again, I fail to see why die hard Republicans are so scared of Obama yet welcome McCain has the better guy.

Raising taxes 3% on people who make over 250k is not going to kill the economy. It didn't kill it in the 90's and it won't in the 10's.
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Old 11-01-2008, 03:32 PM   #41
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Re: Bar Stool Economics

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We are already in hell. 10 trillion dollars worth of it. Thanks to Republicans.

Yet again, I fail to see why die hard Republicans are so scared of Obama yet welcome McCain has the better guy.

Raising taxes 3% on people who make over 250k is not going to kill the economy. It didn't kill it in the 90's and it won't in the 10's.
I never said I'm for McCain...to be honest I don't want either of them in office. But...we really don't have much of a 3rd choice for the mass public do we?
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Old 11-01-2008, 03:47 PM   #42
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Re: Bar Stool Economics

You have plenty of choices. Just because the rest of the country wants to tote party lines doesn't mean you have to. Change starts with one person. The more people that stop supporting a party or stop despising a party so much they just vote against them, the more people begin to go to other groups with their vote. If you are as fed up with government and the Republican and Democratic party as me then stop voting for either until they put someone up worthy of your vote. When other people ask who you are voting for just tell them the truth.

If you are waiting on the media to start talking about 3rd parties you might as well not go to the polls ever because it will always be business as usual.

It took millions and millions of dollars for Ross Perot to steal 19% of the national vote. Just stop supporting either. It really is simple as that. You have a choice. Just because it isn't the popular choice doesn't mean its not a good choice.

Follow your local races closely. Primaries are where your vote matters. North Alabama had a guy running for Congress in the House that was supporting term limits for Congress and the fair tax. I made it a point to go vote for him and spread the word. He didn't win but he did do well enough to raise a lot of issues.
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Old 11-01-2008, 07:19 PM   #43
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Re: Bar Stool Economics

Amen to that.
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Old 11-01-2008, 08:28 PM   #44
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Re: Bar Stool Economics

Some people just can't see the forest because all the damn trees. We can sit here and have petty arguments about whether income tax percentages should be higher for the "rich" than the "poor", or what amount of income makes someone "rich", or what some Democrat is saying what Obama's plan is today...

Or we can start have real discussion about whether or not a income tax is even Constitutional.

The two parties have us so wrapped up in their little arguments about the details that we don't even take the time to question the system itself. That is what's wrong with America today. And the people just eat it up.
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Old 11-02-2008, 01:46 AM   #45
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Re: Bar Stool Economics

Constitutional or not, I believe this country was founded on over taxation to begin with....I think we all need to head to boston and bring a bunch of tea because we have come full circle and are right back where we started 200+ years ago.
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Old 11-02-2008, 07:26 AM   #46
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Re: Bar Stool Economics

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Constitutional or not, I believe this country was founded on over taxation to begin with....I think we all need to head to boston and bring a bunch of tea because we have come full circle and are right back where we started 200+ years ago.
Exactly. That's the one thing that drives me insane more than any other: We could very well be paying less taxes right now under British rule than we are right now. People have forgotten why this nation was founded and what made it great.
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Old 11-02-2008, 07:40 AM   #47
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Re: Bar Stool Economics

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Constitutional or not, I believe this country was founded on over taxation to begin with....I think we all need to head to boston and bring a bunch of tea because we have come full circle and are right back where we started 200+ years ago.
The funny part is, the tax on the tea was less than 1%. Looks like our forefathers have more balls than I do because I'm getting nearly 30% taken out monthly.
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Old 11-02-2008, 11:41 AM   #48
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Re: Bar Stool Economics

brent you do understand that every time that the tax rate has gone down on the top 10% the total amount of taxes gathered goes up?

Taxing the people that provide all of the jobs, and or great money making ideas is never a good thing.
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Old 11-05-2008, 06:05 PM   #49
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Re: Bar Stool Economics

Brent, I'm trying to say the same thing, a 3% tax increase will not do ****, and there is no argument that the republicans put us in this hole. Voting for either McCain or Obama is a sad choice. However all three branches are now Democrats? I have a feeling things will get done in the next four years, but there will be no control. Every ideology the left has might go through, of course I know that's me being paranoid and just being pessimistic

The irony about talking about the Boston Tea party and income tax is the whole idea was for a country with out taxes. That revolt and the many others (as well as others in later history i.e. Whiskey Rebellion) were all aimed at the fact that the King of England was taxing the colonies and the money was going back overseas. I think that high property taxes are ridiculous however I do not disagree with taxes. At some point the government needs money to run things. It is up to US to say where our taxes go. That's the point of democracy.

That's a big problem for me personally. The government is not my government, and I know the Dems will take over more control as a government, then giving control to the people. People now seem to be more willing to let the government do everything then tell it what to do.

There are parts of the country where making less then 100K is just enough to survive. Hell if I do go into civil service here, I could make very close to that. So the government that pays me will take that money away? Of course that is perhaps an exception to the rule.

I don't know now. We are in a very serious time, and the situation to me seems a lot more then just a historic moment of having a black man in office. I feel as if America is on the verge of collapsing into itself.

Whether McCain or Obama won, I can not be held responsible, I voted third party, I wanted my vote to be heard that neither of those candidates were right.

Edit: BTW, I was just more venting and thinking aloud then trying to make any political point. Just wanted to make note of that.
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Old 11-06-2008, 10:53 PM   #50
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Re: Bar Stool Economics

what about the fair tax brent? I think that its a fairly respectable tax plan, that came way before the flat tax plan.
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Old 11-06-2008, 11:04 PM   #51
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Re: Bar Stool Economics

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The funny part is, the tax on the tea was less than 1%. Looks like our forefathers have more balls than I do because I'm getting nearly 30% taken out monthly.
actually I understand that the boston tea party had alot more to do with boycotting the east india company more than it ever had anything to do with taxes

british rule was attempting to destroy our young and powerfully growing companies, particularly an american company that was selling tea. whom at the time was outselling the british supported east india company supplies (mainly tea), their response was to lower the price of taxes on that tea temporarily as a tactic to tear down the american alternative. so we threw that **** in the water. nice counter attack if you ask me.
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Old 11-06-2008, 11:09 PM   #52
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Re: Bar Stool Economics

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actually I understand that the boston tea party had alot more to do with boycotting the east india company more than it ever had anything to do with taxes

british rule was attempting to destroy our young and powerfully growing companies, particularly an american company that was selling tea. whom at the time was outselling the british supported east india company supplies (mainly tea), their response was to lower the price of taxes on that tea temporarily as a tactic to tear down the american alternative. so we threw that **** in the water. nice counter attack if you ask me.
Maybe now we should round up all those useless bodies in washington and throw them in the water....sometime around january.... Maybe the shock of the cold water will wake them up....or knock off the old timer career guys...either way it could be a plus.
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Old 11-06-2008, 11:11 PM   #53
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Re: Bar Stool Economics

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what about the fair tax brent? I think that its a fairly respectable tax plan, that came way before the flat tax plan.
I donate 10.40 a month to FairTax.org. I support it.
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Old 11-06-2008, 11:42 PM   #54
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Re: Bar Stool Economics

Fair Tax is a great thing, and I am for it, but I also like the Constitution Party's plan:

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The Constitution, in Article I, Section 8, gives Congress the power "to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts, and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States."

In Article I, Section 9, the original document made clear that "no Capitation, or other direct Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census of Enumeration herein before directed to be taken." It is moreover established that "No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State."
Since 1913, our Constitutional rights to life, liberty, and property have been abridged and diminished by the imposition on each of us of Federal income, payroll, and estate taxes. This is an unconstitutional Federal assumption of direct taxing authority.

The Internal Revenue Service is the enforcement arm of the Federal government's present unjust tax system. Citizens, both in groups and as individuals, have repeatedly sought responses from the IRS bureaucracy as to the basis for the agency's tax policies and procedures. No answers have been forthcoming although a responsible government must be answerable to the people and has a duty to those it is supposed to serve.

We propose legislation to abolish the Internal Revenue Service, and will veto any authorization, appropriation, or continuing resolution which contains any funding whatsoever for that illicit and unconstitutional agency. We are opposed to the flat-rate tax, national sales tax, and value added tax proposals that are being promoted as an improvement to the current tax system. The Sixteenth Amendment does not provide authority for an un-apportioned direct tax.

Moreover, it is our intention to replace, with a tariff based revenue system supplemented by excise taxes, the current tax system of the U.S. government (including income taxes, payroll taxes, and estate taxes.)

To the degree that tariffs on foreign products, and excises, are insufficient to cover the legitimate Constitutional costs of the federal government, we will offer an apportioned "state-rate tax" in which the responsibility for covering the cost of unmet obligations will be divided among the several states in accordance with their proportion of the total population of these United States, excluding the District of Columbia. Thus, if a state contains 10 percent of the nation's citizens, it will be responsible for assuming payment of 10 percent of the annual deficit.

The effect of this "state-rate tax" will be to encourage politicians to argue for less, rather than more, federal spending, and less state spending as well.

To the extent permitted by the Constitution, we believe that the taxation of corporations is an appropriate source of government revenue. The Supreme Court has defined "income" as a "gain or increase arising from corporate activity or privilege." People are not corporations, and corporations need not be treated as "people" for the purposes of taxation.

There is substantial evidence that the 16th Amendment was never legally ratified. When elected, we will act to cease collection of direct Federal personal income taxes. We also support ratification of the Liberty Amendment which would repeal the Sixteenth Amendment, and provide that "Congress shall not levy taxes on personal incomes, estates, and/or gifts."

We support the use of motor fuel excise taxes, at rates not in excess of those currently imposed, to be used exclusively for the erection, maintenance, and administration of Federal highways. These taxes should never be used for "demonstration projects", mass transit, or for other non-highway purposes.

We support the use of excise taxes to curb the use of tax dollars for media advertising, and to provide so-called "tax abatements," "tax incentives," and "economic development grants," which are pretexts to raid the public treasury and rob the workingman for the benefit of wealthy interests favored by the politicians.
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