Sarin Gas Released by Iraq Roadside Bomb - Mustang Evolution

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Old 05-17-2004, 11:25 AM   #1
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Sarin Gas Released by Iraq Roadside Bomb WMD FOUND

Well looks like we found some WMD !!!!!! Now we need to find out where it is buried and fast before we have more explosions with Sarin gas
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120137,00.html

Here is some of what is said in the article

"The Iraqi Survey Group confirmed today that a 155-millimeter artillery round containing sarin nerve agent had been found," Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt (search), the chief military spokesman in Iraq, told reporters in Baghdad. "The round had been rigged as an IED (improvised explosive device) which was discovered by a U.S. force convoy."

The round detonated before it would be rendered inoperable, Kimmitt said, which caused a "very small dispersal of agent."

Kimmitt said the shell belonged to a class of ordnance that Saddam Hussein's government said was destroyed before the 1991 Gulf war (search).

"It was a weapon that we believe was stocked from the ex-regime time and it had been thought to be an ordinary artillery shell set up to explode like an ordinary IED and basically from the detection of that and when it exploded, it indicated that it actually had some sarin in it," Kimmitt said.

The incident occurred "a couple of days ago," he added. The discovery reportedly occurred near Baghdad International Airport.


Iraqi Scientist: You Will Find More

Gazi George, a former Iraqi nuclear scientist under Saddam's regime, told Fox News that he believes many similar weapons stockpiled by the former regime were either buried underground or transported to Syria. He noted that the airport where the device was detonated is on the way to Baghdad from the Syrian border.

George said the finding likely will just be the first in a series of discoveries of such weapons.

"Saddam is the type who will not store those materials in a military warehouse. He's gonna store them either underground, or, as I said, lots of them have gone west to Syria and are being brought back with the insurgencies," George told Fox News. "It is difficult to look in areas that are not obvious to the military's eyes.

"I'm sure they're going to find more once time passes," he continued, saying one year is not enough for the survey group or the military to find the weapons
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Old 05-17-2004, 02:11 PM   #2
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Like I have said since the start, old Saddam wasnt totaly stupid and of course he moved or buried all of his "big guns". Whoever thought different is retarded. He has em, but where? is the theory I have been going by since it started.
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Old 05-17-2004, 04:55 PM   #3
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maybe this will shut the hippies up :p
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Old 05-17-2004, 05:14 PM   #4
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I doubt it. One shell? Who cares?

It's just somebody's souvenir they saved from the Iran/Iraq war.
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Old 05-17-2004, 05:25 PM   #5
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quick question, what is WMD?
Never mind....Weapons of Mass Destruction.
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Old 05-17-2004, 05:35 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Laser02
I doubt it. One shell? Who cares?

It's just somebody's souvenir they saved from the Iran/Iraq war.
There is a world of difference between NO WMD and any amount of WMD's.

It's kinda like being a "little" pregnant. You either are are you aren't.

One drop of Sarin is enough to kill. An artillery shell probably carries enough "drops" to kill a few hundred people, maybe more. It that enough dead people for you to care?

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Old 05-17-2004, 05:39 PM   #7
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[John Kerry]The United States planted the bomb there[/John Kerry]
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Old 05-17-2004, 07:20 PM   #8
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lol, haha @ Brent.
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Old 05-17-2004, 07:40 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Ponycarman
There is a world of difference between NO WMD and any amount of WMD's.

It's kinda like being a "little" pregnant. You either are are you aren't.

One drop of Sarin is enough to kill. An artillery shell probably carries enough "drops" to kill a few hundred people, maybe more. It that enough dead people for you to care?

Steve
Thing is... We already KNEW there was lost/unaccounted for artillery. They admitted that. The UN inspectors knew that. Everyone knew it. With all the shells made before the gulf war... You expected every single last one to be accounted for and destroyed? Hell. The US and Russia can't even account for their friggin' nuclear warheads.

That shell could have belonged to Al Qaeda or any other fanatic group over there. But they're like: See??!?! We found this shell that's 20 years old in the dirt! It proves he has WMDs!

And it took them a year to find one. One. It's really pathetic.

Don't take that to mean that I'm against Bush or the mission over there... I'm just against this story. One shell is not the Weapons of Mass Destruction the Bush administration promised.
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Old 05-18-2004, 06:15 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laser02
Thing is... We already KNEW there was lost/unaccounted for artillery. They admitted that. The UN inspectors knew that. Everyone knew it. With all the shells made before the gulf war... You expected every single last one to be accounted for and destroyed? Hell. The US and Russia can't even account for their friggin' nuclear warheads.

That shell could have belonged to Al Qaeda or any other fanatic group over there. But they're like: See??!?! We found this shell that's 20 years old in the dirt! It proves he has WMDs!

And it took them a year to find one. One. It's really pathetic.

Don't take that to mean that I'm against Bush or the mission over there... I'm just against this story. One shell is not the Weapons of Mass Destruction the Bush administration promised.
This is why I think you are an Idiot.
1. You know nothing about finding WMD. You are one of those nutcases that think we should have found big boxes labeled WMD. His own people said they were buried his own generals said 1 month before the war they were ordered to use them on Saddam's command but were taken away. Iraq is the size of California 169,235 sq miles and you have to find something buried in it.

2. You think 1 year was long enough is probably what makes you a idiot more than anything else. We are not only looking for WMD but trying to rebuild the country, feed everyone and provide security and hunt down suspected terrorist and Saddam loyalist. With all this going on there arre plenty of places especially in the Sunni triangle that we have not search as intensively as in others. But now we have evidence they do exist and have a mmore urgent need to find it so the terrrorist dont get to use it on us.

Your statement " I doubt it. One shell? Who cares? It's just somebody's souvenir they saved from the Iran/Iraq war is just plain ignorant. Nobody has a Chemical weapon as a souvenir. Do people have Thermal nuclear warheads as souvenirs ???? Hell no. Dont make an *** of yourself talking about things you really no nothing at all about!!!
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Old 05-18-2004, 07:12 AM   #11
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Don't take that to mean that I'm against Bush or the mission over there... I'm just against this story. One shell is not the Weapons of Mass Destruction the Bush administration promised.
he doesnt hate Bush
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Old 05-18-2004, 07:26 AM   #12
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he doesnt hate Bush
Humm!!! I dont think I believe that one. But I edited it any way.
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Old 05-18-2004, 08:17 AM   #13
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This is why I think you are an Idiot.
1. You know nothing about finding WMD. You are one of those nutcases that think we should have found big boxes labeled WMD. His own people said they were buried his own generals said 1 month before the war they were ordered to use them on Saddam's command but were taken away. Iraq is the size of California 169,235 sq miles and you have to find something buried in it.
It's one shell. Lets create a new acronym for it. Weapon of Slightly Larger Than Average Destruction. WSLTAD. You don't think... That maybe... Just maybe... Those Iraqi's could have lied? You don't think we haven't searched every lead those Iraqi's provided us with and came up empty handed? Hmm. I wonder why that is! Oh. Wait. Because we're too stupid to realize they were buried. And weren't clearly labeled. Or something. I thought our military was more intelligent than that.

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Originally Posted by Danger Dude
2. You think 1 year was long enough is probably what makes you a idiot more than anything else. We are not only looking for WMD but trying to rebuild the country, feed everyone and provide security and hunt down suspected terrorist and Saddam loyalist. With all this going on there arre plenty of places especially in the Sunni triangle that we have not search as intensively as in others. But now we have evidence they do exist and have a mmore urgent need to find it so the terrrorist dont get to use it on us.
We have evidence that one shell has survived from the Iran/Iraq war. After all the U.N. inspector searching (which was directed mainly by U.S. "intelligence") and all the searching we did when we got there (more "intelligence" and your wonderful Iraqi leads). And it took a year of that to find one shell. Holy ****. Break out the Budweiser its time to celebrate.

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Originally Posted by Danger Dude
Your statement " I doubt it. One shell? Who cares? It's just somebody's souvenir they saved from the Iran/Iraq war is just plain ignorant. Nobody has a Chemical weapon as a souvenir. Do people have Thermal nuclear warheads as souvenirs ???? Hell no. Dont make an *** of yourself talking about things you really no nothing at all about!!!
Hahaha. I'm sorry, but you are a dumbass. Clearly you don't know what it's like over there and just blindly want to go believing whatever Sean Hannity tells you on Fox News every day. But whatever. I'll provide you with a clue. Like every single last person in Iraq and Afghanistan has an AK-47. Terrorists have loads of guns and bombs and knives and box cutters. "Why?", you ask? Well. Because they like to KILL PEOPLE. Yeah... I'm sure they wouldn't be interested in a bio weapon. Yeah. Real sure.
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Old 05-18-2004, 08:48 AM   #14
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Old 05-18-2004, 08:53 AM   #15
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PS: We found a crapload more than one shell. The FACT of the matter is yes I do expect Saddam to have had NO, NONE, ZERO, NADA WMD's because that is exactly what the terms of the ceasefire for the original Gulf War stated and he agreed to it. As for the nutacase who suggested maybe Al Queda made that shell, right, WTF would they make a 155mm artillery shell filled with Sarin? They have no artillery to use it in.
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Old 05-18-2004, 09:00 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laser02
The US and Russia can't even account for their friggin' nuclear warheads.
That is the words of a person that knows very little

THE US KNOWS WHERE EVERY SINGLE WARHEAD IN OUR ARSENAL IS. BY GOD!!!

Where do you get this crap. After the collapse of the Soviet Union the breakup States made it difficult to count all of the Warheads but it was accomplished. The only problem is the supposed Briefcase bombs the KGB were working on. No one in the KGB has ever made it absolutlely clear that they were ever built and if they were where are they.

But dont for one minute think any country just leaves WMD just haphazzardly laying around except for maybe the Iraqi's.
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Old 05-18-2004, 09:17 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laser02
It's one shell. Lets create a new acronym for it. Weapon of Slightly Larger Than Average Destruction. WSLTAD. You don't think... That maybe... Just maybe... Those Iraqi's could have lied? You don't think we haven't searched every lead those Iraqi's provided us with and came up empty handed? Hmm. I wonder why that is! Oh. Wait. Because we're too stupid to realize they were buried. And weren't clearly labeled. Or something. I thought our military was more intelligent than that.


We have evidence that one shell has survived from the Iran/Iraq war. After all the U.N. inspector searching (which was directed mainly by U.S. "intelligence") and all the searching we did when we got there (more "intelligence" and your wonderful Iraqi leads). And it took a year of that to find one shell. Holy ****. Break out the Budweiser its time to celebrate.


Hahaha. I'm sorry, but you are a dumbass. Clearly you don't know what it's like over there and just blindly want to go believing whatever Sean Hannity tells you on Fox News every day. But whatever. I'll provide you with a clue. Like every single last person in Iraq and Afghanistan has an AK-47. Terrorists have loads of guns and bombs and knives and box cutters. "Why?", you ask? Well. Because they like to KILL PEOPLE. Yeah... I'm sure they wouldn't be interested in a bio weapon. Yeah. Real sure.
No I fortunately dont have to rely on Hannity for my information. I work in the Intelligence community for your information Providing logistic support for the US Airforce, US Navy, US Marines, British Royal AirForce, Royal Norwegian AirForce as well as the Pakistan and Saudia Arabian AirForce. I work with people that are there now and have been in country. So dont think for one minute You know something I dont. I was in The Airforce with High level clearances and still hold them now in the civilian world with Lockheed Martin.

Now as for your TV arm Chair view of this war. You only see what the news wants. There is in fact much going on you will never see on the news going very good over there. 25,000,000 Iraqi's and only a few thousand want to do us harm. Lets be real for a second with 25,000,000 to our 130,000 troops there, if none wanted us we would already be gone. WE would not stand a chance even if every one of them had a box cutter.

As form the Bio or chem weapons. They probably did not know what it was and just used it for a road side bomb, But since it was leaked. Remember the US tried to classify this information and did not want it spread to the world because now the enemy does know what it was and now it is a necessity to find this stuff quick before it becomes a real problem.

The news just blurts out stuff without first asking the Gov if this is sensitive info. Leaks are a fundamental problem with the news and the negative impact it can have on security and the lives of the troops. The enemy watches our 24 hour news every day.
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Old 05-18-2004, 09:32 AM   #18
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PS: We found a crapload more than one shell. The FACT of the matter is yes I do expect Saddam to have had NO, NONE, ZERO, NADA WMD's because that is exactly what the terms of the ceasefire for the original Gulf War stated and he agreed to it. As for the nutacase who suggested maybe Al Queda made that shell, right, WTF would they make a 155mm artillery shell filled with Sarin? They have no artillery to use it in.
We found one Sarin shell and one shell of expired mustard gas. How do you know Saddam even knew about it? You didn't find the shell in his house. You found it in the dirt. After he was captured.

I did not say Al Qaeda MADE the shell. I said they could have put it there. Just like they have RUSSIAN tanks and RPGs, I'm sure they could also get 20-year old Iraqi artillery rounds. And the fact the shell was RIGGED UP WITH AN IED means they didn't intend to use it in artillery. Which doesn't go well for your case that Saddam had it and intended to fire it.
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Old 05-18-2004, 09:33 AM   #19
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Stuff.
I agree with everything you said in that post.
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Old 05-18-2004, 09:50 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Laser02
I agree with everything you said in that post.
DAMMITT. I was all worked up and ready with more firepower and you just ome along and agree with my last post.........................................................

Now what ?????? I was ready for a negative response no an "I agree"

Now I have to go over to 3.8 and give a liberal panzy *** over there a hard time
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Old 05-18-2004, 09:55 AM   #21
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DAMMITT. I was all worked up and ready with more firepower and you just ome along and agree with my last post.........................................................

Now what ?????? I was ready for a negative response no an "I agree"

Now I have to go over to 3.8 and give a liberal panzy *** over there a hard time
There was not anything to disagree about. I am not against the war. Or you. Or the troops. Or the military. Or Bush. I voted for Bush. I will vote for Bush again. I just think this particular story is overblown and not exactly the kind of results we were expecting when we went in.

Pre-war they were going on and on about how Iraqi's had a huge stockpile of weapons and wouldn't hesistate to use them. How they would be fired at Kuwait and Israel on moment's notice. Etc. None of that really happened. I agree with the war even with NO wmds... But it seems like they are trying to justify the war with one shell of Sarin. I find it funny and sad at the same time.
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Old 05-18-2004, 10:03 AM   #22
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How do you know Saddam even knew about it? You didn't find the shell in his house. You found it in the dirt. After he was captured.

I did not say Al Qaeda MADE the shell. I said they could have put it there. Just like they have RUSSIAN tanks and RPGs, I'm sure they could also get 20-year old Iraqi artillery rounds. And the fact the shell was RIGGED UP WITH AN IED means they didn't intend to use it in artillery. Which doesn't go well for your case that Saddam had it and intended to fire it.
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Old 05-18-2004, 10:07 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laser02
There was not anything to disagree about. I am not against the war. Or you. Or the troops. Or the military. Or Bush. I voted for Bush. I will vote for Bush again. I just think this particular story is overblown and not exactly the kind of results we were expecting when we went in.

Pre-war they were going on and on about how Iraqi's had a huge stockpile of weapons and wouldn't hesistate to use them. How they would be fired at Kuwait and Israel on moment's notice. Etc. None of that really happened. I agree with the war even with NO wmds... But it seems like they are trying to justify the war with one shell of Sarin. I find it funny and sad at the same time.
I understand what you are saying but do to the size of the country and the difficulty in locating a stockpile of anything in 169,235 sq miles area not knowing where to start and not having markings on them require the shell to be teasted to determine if it is a chemical or Bio weapon mkes it similar to finding Saddam in a hole in a a non descript farm house. We need more human intelligence and that will be harder since a couple of Bozo's have hampered interrorgations with their stupid actions.

Remember we need to stop worrying about political correctness and understand we are in a job to exterminate terrorist everywhere and in the quest to prevent them from completeing their goal of Genocide against us we rough up a few of there prisoners so be it. There should have never been pictures BY GOD

There were several Iraqi Generals who have said all along before the war started they received instructions to fire the chem or Bio shells at the order of Saddam then about 3 weeks before the war special Rep Guardsmen collected all the shells and never seen again. Remember this is typical disinformation tactics on the part of Saddam to prove he had no weapons. Interesting that all of the Iraqi troops had Bio/chem suits during the war. Why if they did not have them to use. They did not have to worry about us using it.
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Old 05-18-2004, 11:54 AM   #24
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ok, as i understand it, we have artillery shell(s?) rigged as explosive devices. correct me if i'm wrong on that... it would seem to me to be unlikely that the iraqis would open the shell to see what, if anything was inside it, moreover, it would be hazardous to do so; so whoever placed these shells probably did not know they contained sarin gas. perhaps it's just that all artillery in the area was stored in the same place and became mixed together, we really have no way of knowing. we can't trust saddam's people, obviously (or it SHOULD be obvious, if it isn't) and we really have no way of tracking the source... if these materials were moved out of iraq and are now being brought back in by insurgent forces, then i'm not suprised we haven't found more.

now, i want to try to make myself clear... i don't like war, i don't like fighting if it can be helped. however i will fight for things i believe in. now, i don't believe for an instant that the administration has been straight with the public about anything since this start it. let's face it, they really can't be, can they? with al-qaieda (sp?) watching every source of news in our control, it'd be suicide...

but there was no need to make this war about WMD, look what has happened becuz of it. straight from the start it SHOULD have been "saddam is committing genocide against his own people" not "he has WMD, we can't let him keep them cuz we're america, only we can have WMD" that's extremely hipocritical. i think if a war should be fought, it should be fought for the right reasons. a leader committing genocide is a right reason. i'd have supported that reason (with better planning in the administrations part, i'd have supported it even more) ...the POSSIBILITY of WMD is not a right reason in my view. i don't believe it should have been a focus of this war, becuz it's just hipocritical, what about all the other countries with nuclear capabilities that we AREN'T at war with? including us... also, the lack of concrete proof before hand has put the administration in it's current position

we had CONCRETE PROOF that saddam was committing genocide. that should have been the main focus of this war. if bush had said straight out "saddam is murdering his own people, we're going to stop him becuz it's the right thing to do" and not mentioned WMD at all, i'd have been more supportive

but instead he said "saddam is hiding WMD, we're the only ones that can have WMD, cuz we're america.. so we have to find them and take them... oh, and we'll give the iraqi's some freedom while we're at it" ...to me that's just assinine, and so far down the list from genocide that it barely counts...

i'd have supported a war against genocide or world domination (such as WW2) but i can't give my moral support to an administration based on their wishful thinking and grasping at straws... so we found a few sarin shells, so what... we know about a dozen countries with nuclear capabilities and we leave them mostly alone (china for instance.. thought their standing army of 1,000,000+ might be the reason for that)

i don't support the war against terror (mostly) becuz the "terror" (for america) didn't originate in iraq. it's migrated there becuz we've pulled out a scope and singled iraq out... i'm sure if we'd gone after al-qaeda with 20 commando units we'd have better (or at least the same) results we've had. there are terrorists everywhere. i'd say some of them have even gone to iraq from other places to be in the action... don't forget, osama called saddam an "infidel" the same as he did all of us... i sincerely doubt osama is anywhere near iraq right now. i know i wouldn't be

in closing, i have a quote...

"war is young men dying and old men talking"

i hope some of you understand me a bit better now

keep it civil please

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Old 05-18-2004, 12:07 PM   #25
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The thing is you and people like you dont understand is that all of these Fanatic muslim Terrorist have been working together for years and you cant pic and choose which one is worse they all want to unleash Genocide on us. GET THAT !! ALL want to destroy our way of life. So dont even say they were not responsible for 9/11 because they all were. So in the greater good of the US and its security we must exterminate all bent on destroying what we hold dear. This is not politics this is war Us and Them. Losing is not an option unless you are willing to live in a world were Terrorist with nuclear weapons use them on our cities and the whole world erupts into chaos and anarchy. Sorry that is not my vision of the future and that is not the vision of Bush and that is why I am going to support him and the war to the end.

Lead, follow or get out of the way it is extermination time !!!!!! BY GOD !!!!
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Old 05-18-2004, 12:14 PM   #26
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^that's exactly what i'm saying corey. i support a war against genocide

i DON'T support a war against imaginary weapons that every other county has

i DO support a war against a power hungry leader that murders his own people and everyone elses people

i DON'T support a war that's based on personal gain for a select few

i DO support a war that's based on gain for all

i'm saying that by putting genocide second and WMD first, the bush administration has weaked our position. that's all
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Old 05-18-2004, 12:28 PM   #27
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^that's exactly what i'm saying corey. i support a war against genocide

i DON'T support a war against imaginary weapons that every other county has

i DO support a war against a power hungry leader that murders his own people and everyone elses people

i DON'T support a war that's based on personal gain for a select few

i DO support a war that's based on gain for all

i'm saying that by putting genocide second and WMD first, the bush administration has weaked our position. that's all
Dont you see they go hand in hand. WMD in the hands of people who want to commit Genocide on us cannot be tollerated. Heaven help us if they now have the bio and chem artillery shells as we speak. all they really need is a few pieces of Artillery to cause a great deal of disaster instantly or they make it over to Gaza and fire a couple at israel. The Iraqi scientist said Saddam had it, The iraqi generals said they had it as late as 1 month before the war. But why is it so Americans dont believe it. Simply put it is disinfromation and the fact that some morons think one year is long enough to find a needle in the haystack when you have to search 169,235 sq miles of land to find where it is located
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Old 05-18-2004, 12:43 PM   #28
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^tell me, if saddam was committing genocide against his people and had never had WMD, would you give a damn?
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Old 05-18-2004, 01:12 PM   #29
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Did you see the news.??

"Tests on an artillery shell that blew up in Iraq on Saturday confirm that it did contain an estimated three or four liters of the deadly nerve agent sarin"

That's bigger than your engine~!
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Old 05-18-2004, 01:25 PM   #30
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^tell me, if saddam was committing genocide against his people and had never had WMD, would you give a damn?
Yes after Desert Storm when the ****es in the south and the kerds in the north revolted and were slaughtered by Saddam I was very vocal in the Military community about the need to go in a take care of Saddam then. Because of the commitments to Jordan, Saudia Arabia, Egypt and other Islamic nations they we would not depose Saddam at that time of Desert Storm we made a costly mistake that in retrospect we should have just went in then before Terrorist gain a foothold throughout the world and taken out Saddam.

Wether WMD or To fight injustice or Terrorism. It would all be for the same thing because they are all tied together. Terror, Fear and Tyranny are all enemies of freedom.
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Old 05-18-2004, 02:26 PM   #31
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^then we agree

personally, i just think that WMD should never have been brought up
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Old 05-18-2004, 02:59 PM   #32
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^tell me, if saddam was committing genocide against his people and had never had WMD, would you give a damn?
Yes I would. It may amaze you but I love life and try not to think about myself more than others. I didnt use to be like this. i used to be self centered and basicly someone that no one really cared to hang around. That was 3-4 years ago.

I hate what countries like China and N. Korea and Iraq and Iran do to their people as well as the other 3rd world countries out there.

Again I support any president who tries to make the world better by removing people like Sadaam. Whether WMD was the main reason or not it doesnt really matter to me. The threat was there to iraqs people, Iraqs neighbors, and to us if we left him alone any longer.

It doesnt matter who is in power. If John Kerry came to the American People and said Iran posed a threat to us, its neighbors and its people. They have used Weapons of Mass Destruction in the past and we believe that we have credible evidence to link them with current illegal weapons programs inside the coutnry. I would support him 100%. Iran doesnt pose the threat that Iraq did that was just used as a example.

But we know Iraq abused its own people. We know it has and continued to threatened its neighbors, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. We know they have used Weapons of Mass Destruction in the past. He never allowed weapons inspectors full access to scientists and labrtories.

He couldnt account for weapons. Couldnt prove he destroyed them. It was his word against the worlds.

The reasons where just. Just because we havent foudn anything yet doesnt mean we wont. Its been a year. We have 130,000 US troops covering a Country the Size of California. Not even 1/4th of these troops are looking for WMD's

They are trying to keep the peace and restore order while defending themselves against suicide bombers, car bombers, and Iraqi's dressing up as American Soldiers and attacking them.

We never said we knew exactly where they were people. WE said we had what we thought to be very credible evidence to prove that Iraq had WMD. WE get this through tapping into conversations before the war. Survaliance videos.

Before the war started did any of you watch Colin Powells many UN Security Council breifings? Did you listen to the recorded conversations between Iraqi militants? Did you see the photographs.

Everything lead to one conclusion.

Sadaam had something to hide.

He was cooperating. He wasnt telling the truth.

Now if you want to take this whole war and throw everything that has been done out. Give no credit to Bush whatsoever and just yell and scream about how there havent found any womd then thats sad. Give credit where credit is do. No one is perfect. Bill Clinton sure as hell wasnt. George Bush Sr wasnt. Reagean wasnt... etc etc.... they all made mistakes.

But when you look at someone like George Bush who is consitent with what he believes in, doesnt watch polls to decide what to do, and actually does what he believes is right, that is what you call a leader.

I disagree with some policies he has. But I look at what is going to affect this country the most and then look at what the two canidates say about it.

Make a descion.

My decision is Bush and Cheney for 2004. Thats what I will be checking on the ballot. I have spent so many hrs reading up on Kerry and Bush. Seeing what I like about both and dont about the others. Bascially I cant trust Kerry. His past proves it.

Now if someone like Lieberman was running against Bush it would be a different game. I could see it being a close race for the white house. Lieberman is a great guy. He is strong on national Defense and is consitent withg what he believes in. I disagree with minor things about him just like I do with Bush.
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