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Old 12-11-2008, 09:54 PM   #1
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It Was Nice Knowing You GMC

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Bipartisan talks in the Senate on an auto industry bailout have collapsed, and the bill appears dead, sources tell CNN.
From CNN breaking news. You better hope you have enough money so Obama can help you out in February.

Republicans train of thought:

Save banks so people don't have to default on home loans.
Banks saved
People still default on home loans
Refuse to save the Auto Industry because somehow the Auto Industry deserves to fail for running their business bad but banks don't.
Auto industry fails 2.5+ million more people default on home loans.
Republicans blame it on Clinton
Some idiot who doesn't know me on this site calls me a liberal cause I don't bow down to the Republican party.

Rinse and repeat for when Republicans regain White House and Congress. Some 30 years from now. (They'll still blame it on Clinton though)
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Old 12-11-2008, 10:06 PM   #2
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Re: It Was Nice Knowing You GMC

Clinton's a pile of ****, but I have my reasons for saying that beyond the economy.

In some ways I would like to see the big 3 go down so they can be re-created and get out from under the UAW.

I think as long as the UAW is around, the big 3 are going to have troubles. I also think the UAW is why the repubs are so against this bailout. THe way the UAW pushes the dem ticket and rallies against the repubs, this is their chance to really stick it to them and get some revenge. I wouldn't be suprised in the list if that is part of the reasoning.
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Old 12-11-2008, 10:10 PM   #3
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Re: It Was Nice Knowing You GMC

I don't like Clinton either. It's just annoying seeing him get blamed for everything.

Ford won't go under. They aren't even asking for money this time (they are only asking for money IF and ONLY IF GMC or Chrysler declares bankruptcy.)

Ford is in a position to come out as the only original domestic automaker if someone doesn't save them.

I think you may be right to. The UAW and Republicans aren't particularly fond of each other.
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Old 12-11-2008, 10:16 PM   #4
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Re: It Was Nice Knowing You GMC

This is a picture perfect case for chapter 11.
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Old 12-11-2008, 10:37 PM   #5
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Re: It Was Nice Knowing You GMC

If Chrysler goes down... I hope Ford gets Jeep
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Old 12-12-2008, 05:16 AM   #6
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Re: It Was Nice Knowing You GMC

the are just going to resubmit next month
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Old 12-12-2008, 08:32 AM   #7
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Re: It Was Nice Knowing You GMC

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In some ways I would like to see the big 3 go down so they can be re-created and get out from under the UAW.
The UAW has had it day !!! It time to get out from under their thumb
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Old 12-12-2008, 03:26 PM   #8
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Re: It Was Nice Knowing You GMC

Agreed. The UAW is a huge thorn to the American Auto Industry.
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Old 12-12-2008, 03:34 PM   #9
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Re: It Was Nice Knowing You GMC

And did you see the postering today by them? Blaming the GOP? Well, no duh...don't you think they have some sort of grudge against y'all?
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Old 12-13-2008, 11:13 AM   #10
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Re: It Was Nice Knowing You GMC

I also think the uaw should be removed... back in the day it was needed and did good things but... today its worthless... you get paid for what you do. We have labor laws to protect from discrimination mostly so the only reason the uaw is around is to get more money for their workers than they are worth.
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Old 12-13-2008, 11:34 AM   #11
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Re: It Was Nice Knowing You GMC

Who's going to make rental cars now dammit? WHO?
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Old 12-14-2008, 09:29 AM   #12
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Re: It Was Nice Knowing You GMC

Even Ford knows, if GM and Chrysler go down it'll only make things harder for them. Not only are they hanging on by a tiny thread above where GM and Chrysler are; as soon as GM and Chrysler go down Ford will have problems. They'll lose suppliers and any people who were thinking about a domestic car will just run to foreign cars.

To be honest, I'm not sure what the right thing to do is. On one hand you have production workers who are making much more money than people with masters degrees, and then getting their pensions paid by me and the other workers here in the US, while some of us pay for health care out of our pockets.

On the other hand, you have the banks that got bailed out, so how the **** is it fair that banks are okay to bail, but autos aren't. That is the big problem bailing out a big industry, the other industries are going to ask for it too.

Chapter 11 could work in removing the Unions, but then that will just damage the american auto's consumer confidence. If you're on the edge of american/import, and one of them just filed bankruptcy, which would you choose to buy?
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Old 12-14-2008, 01:59 PM   #13
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Re: It Was Nice Knowing You GMC

File bankruptcy. At this point, I mean, **** it. Consumer confidence in current America autos is low anyway. I think people would be more willing to buy from a rebuilt company than from a company which needed help. Of course I could be wrong but we'll see what happens
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Old 12-16-2008, 03:30 PM   #14
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Re: It Was Nice Knowing You GMC

most true conservatives didnt want to bail the banks out either, that 700b was a waste however you can take it back and blame clinton for it though lol, in 95 clinton mandated banks to give out all of those risky loans (it actually started in the carter admin but got a lot stricter during the clintin admin)

the big 3 failed cause no one bought their **** and the unions are corrupt as hell. i say no bail out, the consumers already spoke, they spoke by not buying their cars, if they wanted to bail them out theyd go buy one. thier best bet is chapter 11, then tell the unions to **** off so they can somewhat even the playing field with the non union import compaines making their cars in the states.
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Old 12-17-2008, 01:39 AM   #15
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Re: It Was Nice Knowing You GMC

speaking of GMC why is the GMC division still around? all you are buying is a grill and some different badges.
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Old 12-17-2008, 01:24 PM   #16
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Re: It Was Nice Knowing You GMC

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speaking of GMC why is the GMC division still around? all you are buying is a grill and some different badges.
Same reason Mercury's still around 2:

Even though they're similar cars, each has carved out its own niche and target audience.
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Old 12-17-2008, 09:50 PM   #17
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Re: It Was Nice Knowing You GMC

i agree mercury should go at this point. i loved the marauder and an all new mustang based cougar would be sweet but last i heard they will make mercury an all green brand. so i guess they will make another version of hybrid fords.
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:07 PM   #18
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Re: It Was Nice Knowing You GMC

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but then that will just damage the american auto's consumer confidence.
This still exists? Get rid of the UAW. All the Jap manufacturers don't have it and look at them. They are much better off. It also helps that they have a better product though, which hurts to say. They need to get rid of all the CEO's and upper management as well and find new guys that will run the companies better, if they actually survive.
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:10 PM   #19
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Re: It Was Nice Knowing You GMC

Unions are the worst idea ever. Period.
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:36 PM   #20
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Re: It Was Nice Knowing You GMC

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Unions are the worst idea ever. Period.
In modern times, yes. With government regulations, OSHA, minimum wage, ect. they are not needed. However, when they first came to be, they were desperately needed and did great things for the people they represented. However, as I said, they have run their course and have become corrupt and completely ridiculous.
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:57 PM   #21
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Re: It Was Nice Knowing You GMC

I have a big problem with lower employees having more power over the CEO of the company in making any decisions, much less on their pay.

I have a big problem with things such as pensions as well. I don't think that companies should be allowed to run such programs. Especially if these companies have a chance of going bankrupt. Which apparently every company does but Banks and American Auto Industry.

Save for your own retirement. Stop looking to others to support you.

I don't blame people for taking advantage of it. I just don't really care to hear these people that lost their pension wonder where they went wrong when they put their entire retirement planning into a corporation.
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Old 12-18-2008, 11:01 PM   #22
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Re: It Was Nice Knowing You GMC

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I have a big problem with lower employees having more power over the CEO of the company in making any decisions, much less on their pay.

I have a big problem with things such as pensions as well. I don't think that companies should be allowed to run such programs. Especially if these companies have a chance of going bankrupt. Which apparently every company does but Banks and American Auto Industry.

Save for your own retirement. Stop looking to others to support you.

I don't blame people for taking advantage of it. I just don't really care to hear these people that lost their pension wonder where they went wrong when they put their entire retirement planning into a corporation.
I agree with you. I also can't stand how union workers work. I'm all for getting breaks during the day, but from a first hand account, my shop manager was up in Indiana touring a service body factory, getting hands on experience, ect, and the time these guys get to do their tasks is insane. One guy admitted he could do his task in 3 hours at a relaxed pace, but he gets all day to do one truck, so, he takes all day. He got a truck in, but since it was 45 min till break, decided he wouldn't start till after break... that kind of crap is ridiculous.
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Old 12-18-2008, 11:06 PM   #23
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Re: It Was Nice Knowing You GMC

I've seen unions in action as we.. AS a college worker, you had to pay the $25 union dues each week yet you were not covered by the union.

I also saw how they forced the company to rehire someone that had been busted for coming in to work drunk for the 5th time...not to mention the times he just left work to go drink at the bar on the corner and come back to clock out at the end of his shift.

Unions are just extorsion...that's all they are. You end up getting paid retarded amounts for pushing a broom for 8 hours (nearly $20 an hour at the salt plant I worked at). Pay should be according to job, not according to time at the company and should be on par with what the real world pays for the skill set...not some made up pay scale.

I disagree on the pension thing...you should be rewarded for being with a company for a period of time...however I think there should be time limits on how long you need to be with a company to receive a pension.

However, GM for the longest time was known as Generous Motors because of their retirment, pensions, and health insurance. Now, all that is coming back to haunt them. Most of my mother's side of the family are retired GM employees, so I've seen their bennies first hand.
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Old 12-19-2008, 08:16 AM   #24
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Re: It Was Nice Knowing You GMC

back in the day unions were needed, now they are just taking advantage... you cant tell me its worth 30-40-50 or 60 dollars an hour to bolt a car door on... sure people should get raises but.. some of it is rediculous
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Old 12-19-2008, 10:03 AM   #25
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Re: It Was Nice Knowing You GMC

The problem is, the union isn't going to budge. Personally I don't think they give a crap what happens, which makes no sense at all. Why would they not do something to save their jobs? Automakers get $17.4 billion lifeline from gov't - Autos- msnbc.com Here's the latest article I saw on the situation. It's a good idea to bail them out with a lot of stipulations. The US can't afford to lose the jobs, money, etc.
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Old 12-19-2008, 11:51 AM   #26
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Re: It Was Nice Knowing You GMC

On top of that bail out from bush...the UAW has gone and shown it's true colors once again...

Quote:
Auto Union Asks Obama To Reverse `Unfair' Bailout Terms

Dec 19, 2008 12:03:59 (ET)

DETROIT (AFP)--The United Auto Workers union said Friday it would try to reverse "unfair conditions" imposed in a government bailout package when President-elect Barack Obama takes office in January.

"While we appreciate that President (George W.) Bush has taken the emergency action needed to help America's auto companies weather the current financial crisis, we are disappointed that he has added unfair conditions singling out workers," UAW President Ron Gettelfinger said in a statement.

"We will work with the Obama administration and the new Congress to ensure that these unfair conditions are removed as we join in the coming months with all stakeholders to create a viable future for the US auto industry."
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Old 12-19-2008, 01:06 PM   #27
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Re: It Was Nice Knowing You GMC

i hate the uaw. bunch of idiots
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Old 12-19-2008, 02:22 PM   #28
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Re: It Was Nice Knowing You GMC

Yippee. The UAW will get what it wants, Obama loves his unions.
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Old 12-19-2008, 03:29 PM   #29
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Re: It Was Nice Knowing You GMC

Someone really needs to do something about this or the same crap is just going to happen over and over. I say fire everyone, get rid of the union and then rehire everyone under non union standards. If they don't like what the company has to offer, go find another job and good luck finding one.
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Old 12-20-2008, 09:25 AM   #30
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Re: It Was Nice Knowing You GMC

I work for a union and cant stand it. It is the most useless thing the union reps are only worried about themselves. Not about anything else.
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Old 12-20-2008, 09:18 PM   #31
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Re: It Was Nice Knowing You GMC

I worked non-unioned for UPS and it was the greatest thing ever. Anytime they tried to make me help out on the loading docks (instead of the mostly end of shift data entry desk job that I was hired for) I'd just complain loudly about it in front of one of the unioned drivers and they'd flip out that some non-unioned person was doing "what should be union labor" So I got to go sit in my office and get paid to sit around and do nothing. It was just like being in the union only without the dues!
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