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Old 08-11-2004, 11:19 PM   #71
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I'm not a big fan of Mike Bloomberg he wouldnt get my vote if I was in NYC
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Old 08-11-2004, 11:23 PM   #72
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DHS Bulletin: Potential Terrorist Use of Official Identification, Uniforms, or Vehicles


Department Of Homeland Security
Information Bulletin


OVERVIEW:
Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Information Bulletins are informational in nature and are designed to provide updates on the training, tactics, or strategies of terrorists. The following information is meant to advise the owners and operators of the nation’s infrastructures about the possible use by terrorists of official identification, uniforms, or vehicles to gain access to sensitive facilities for purposes of planning or carrying out attacks. (In this Information Bulletin, “official” refers to recognized implements of federal, state, and local governments and private sector entities.) While DHS possesses no information indicating an organized effort by extremist elements in the United States to illegally obtain official identification, uniforms, or vehicles in furtherance of terrorist activities, it has identified the recent theft or disappearance of large numbers of these items. Attempts to acquire official identification, uniforms, or vehicles would be consistent with the tactics and techniques of Al-Qaeda and other extremist groups, according to a variety of reporting sources.
yeah.....
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Old 08-11-2004, 11:37 PM   #73
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There are evil people in this world and you can only try to reason with them for so long before you realize that they are unreasonable..

We are not at war with Islam, we are at war with extremism. There are simply too many people that want us to hand over our right to defend our nation to Europe. And of all the nations over there that hate us, just wait until something bad happens to them and see who they come running to for help.
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Old 08-11-2004, 11:44 PM   #74
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alot of bands are moving against bush do to his "views" on what should and shouldnt be allowed to be said in concert or on the radio or tv.
hes a very religious man but being a "damn yankee" i dont think politics and reliogion should mix. noone should take this offensively in any way but, bush doesnt believe that stem cell research should be allowed. because of the fact that all human life starts as stem cells, and he sees that as being a religious conflict. personally i think, stem cell research should be allowed due to the serious possiblities it promises. we are taking a huge step back from being the world leader in medical breakthroughs. its like trying to sneak porn with a dial up connection.. it just doesnt work. i think that the media has jumped on bush and portrayed him flasely in many many ways. i just dont agree with several things, the religion thing, him flying bin ladens family out of the us during a no fly ordinance, without questioning osama'a whereabouts,and im not sure maybe he gets shaken up easily in front of the camera (honestly not sarcaastically) but i have never felt he was a strong speaker. he just doesnt motivate me.

and sweet i got quoted.

haha i definately didnt see the last page this is in respone to eclipsedude
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Old 08-12-2004, 12:06 AM   #75
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alot of bands are moving against bush do to his "views" on what should and shouldnt be allowed to be said in concert or on the radio or tv.
hes a very religious man but being a "damn yankee" i dont think politics and reliogion should mix.
I agree 100% with you on that. If people dont want their kids listening to certain then dont let them. You dont need the government baby sitting you. Take responsibility and raise your kids instead of letting MTV raise them.

Cable TV needs to be regulated to a certain extint as to whats on it. ITs pushing limits. I mean you have channels like HBO and SHOWTIME for the racy stuff. I think they are getting away with to much on reg cable channels but thats just me. They shouldnt start cutting people or start becoming nazis over it they should just use common sense.
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noone should take this offensively in any way but, bush doesnt believe that stem cell research should be allowed. because of the fact that all human life starts as stem cells, and he sees that as being a religious conflict. personally i think, stem cell research should be allowed due to the serious possiblities it promises. we are taking a huge step back from being the world leader in medical breakthroughs. its like trying to sneak porn with a dial up connection.. it just doesnt work.
Here is part of a speech Bush gave concerning Stem Cell Research:

Quote:
Originally Posted by President Bush
I have concluded that we should allow federal funds to be used for research on these existing stem cell lines, where the life-and-death decision has already been made.

Leading scientists tell me research on these 60 lines has great promise that could lead to breakthrough therapies and cures. This allows us to explore the promise and potential of stem cell research without crossing a fundamental moral line by providing taxpayer funding that would sanction or encourage further destruction of human embryos that have at least the potential for life.

I also believe that great scientific progress can be made through aggressive federal funding of research on umbilical cord, placenta, adult and animal stem cells, which do not involve the same moral dilemma. This year your government will spent $250 million on this important research.

I will also name a president's council to monitor stem cell research, to recommend appropriate guidelines and regulations and to consider all of the medical and ethical ramifications of bio-medical innovation.

This council will consist of leading scientists, doctors, ethicists, lawyers, theologians and others, and will be chaired by Dr. Leon Cass, a leading bio-medical ethicist from the University of Chicago.

This council will keep us apprised of new developments and give our nation a forum to continue to discuss and evaluate these important issues.

As we go forward, I hope we will always be guided by both intellect and heart, by both our capabilities and our conscience.

I have made this decision with great care, and I pray it is the right one.

Thank you for listening. Good night, and God bless America.
He does not oppose it outright he has allowed it for the existing stem cell lines. He goes on to say that he will support Adult and animal stem cell testing.


My view on Stem Cell Research. It needs to be controlled extremely well. We must be very very very picky as to who does it. I am for it. Do I believe that we will ever get anything out of it? Not really but for the chance to cure diseases like Cancer its worth it to try.

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i think that the media has jumped on bush and portrayed him flasely in many many ways. i just dont agree with several things, the religion thing, him flying bin ladens family out of the us during a no fly ordinance, without questioning osama'a whereabouts.
I can understand you not agreeing with the Religion part.

About Bin Ladens family. They had no idea where he was. They were not associated with him. They had very little if no contact with him and when they did talk to him Usama wasnt about to tell them his address. Bush flew them out of the country for their safety. Your country just lost 3000 people to a organization that is run by Usama Bin Laden. You think his family is going to hang around that country? Nope. Bin Laden's family isnt our enemy.
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and im not sure maybe he gets shaken up easily in front of the camera (honestly not sarcaastically) but i have never felt he was a strong speaker. he just doesnt motivate me.
He has made some very powerful speeches. After 9/11 he showed me what kind of leader he was. He def. motivated me. I guess it just depends on the people. Hell I will say Bill Clinton was one hell of a speaker and motivator. When he came on TV explaining the Desert Fox and Kosovo wars I was very impressed. I cant stand the ******* but I will give credit to him for being one hell of a speaker.

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and sweet i got quoted.
I like reading your posts you know what your talking about and we have our differences concerning somethings. You make good points. Its a nice change lemme tell ya from some people
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Old 08-12-2004, 07:15 AM   #76
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I don't have much, if anything, to add to what Brent said. I just wanted to make it known that Bush does not oppose stem cell research. In fact, he is the one and ONLY President to fund it.

It is nice to watch a more civilized discussion of politics on the forums though, lol.
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Old 08-12-2004, 09:38 AM   #77
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Please allow me to clarify a few things.

I never said we should or would bomb everyone. I merely proposed a hypothetical question asking where does this all end. There are other countries whose citizens are involved with terrorism like Saudi Arabia and Iran. IF a terrorist organization should happen to form there and threaten the US, is that enough by itself to justify an invasion? We can't go into every country where there are international terrorists and just take over. There has to be a line somewhere.

As for giving Saddam a chance, sure we did... and he kept saying he did not have WMD. We kept pressuring and he kept denying. Then we invade, take over, and what do we find??? After all of the talk about intelligence indicating WMD it turns out there is nothing there.

As for how to deal with those who only understand violence, that is more difficult to answer. I will rarely advocate violence but there are those who give up their right to normal negotiations because of their actions. Monsters like Hitler and Osama can only be dealt with by force. Hitler was a direct threat, Osama is a direct threat, and that provides some justification for attacking and pursuing them directly.
Iraq, however, is not and has never been (in my opinion) a direct threat to us. Due to the fact that we have not found any WMD we know how little of a threat Iraq was. Add to that the conclusions by the Congressional 9/11 Panel that found no links between Iraq and 9/11, the war in Iraq seems unjustified.

I hope this clears up what I said before. Like I said in my first post, these are difficult topics to discuss online. Let me know if I'm still not making my point clear.

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Old 08-12-2004, 09:51 AM   #78
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Actually The Bin Laden Family did not leave till after the lifting of the no fly order. That was a total fabrication plain and simple. That is just more of the "If you say it enough it will become true"

Another fact about stem cell research. It continues today with adult stem cells there is no need or justification for aborted fetus stem cell research. Bush only stopped funding for Fetus stem cell research. The big lie is Nobody in the Scientific world uses Fetus stem cell anyway. The fight is to help the cause of liberals to have partial birth abortions legal again. More of the same "If you say it enough it will become true" Ron Reagan should be ashame of his dishonesty in his lie about research!!!

As far as bands and entertainers jumping on the Kerry bandwagon, they always were!!! Nothing has changed most of them are liberals. No modern day Republican has counted on the entertainment world for support except for the Country music entertainers. Who really cares what entertainers think anyway. Thgey live in an imaginary world where people pay them big bucks to entertain not for their politics. Most are dope smoking dim witts anyway.
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Old 08-12-2004, 12:07 PM   #79
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Please allow me to clarify a few things.

I never said we should or would bomb everyone. I merely proposed a hypothetical question asking where does this all end. There are other countries whose citizens are involved with terrorism like Saudi Arabia and Iran. IF a terrorist organization should happen to form there and threaten the US, is that enough by itself to justify an invasion? We can't go into every country where there are international terrorists and just take over. There has to be a line somewhere.
There is a line..... you dont see us attacking the Saudis do you? They arent a State Sponsor of Terrorism. I'll admit that they are no where near as tough on it as we are but its alot harder for them as they live right in the middle of it. If a terrorist organazation attempted to overthrow the Saudi Government and we did nothing about it I would be extremely pissed. If questions are hardly relevant. But as I said earlier we dont go into every country. WE didnt attack Libya to get them to disarm did we?

Quote:

As for giving Saddam a chance, sure we did... and he kept saying he did not have WMD. We kept pressuring and he kept denying. Then we invade, take over, and what do we find??? After all of the talk about intelligence indicating WMD it turns out there is nothing there.
Oh come on. If you believe that Saddam didnt have womd your crazy lol. Iraq is one hell of a big desert. We found 6-8 Migs buried in the desert. If Saddam would go to the links to bury 8 migs what do you think he would do with womd? I mean common sense

Quote:
As for how to deal with those who only understand violence, that is more difficult to answer. I will rarely advocate violence but there are those who give up their right to normal negotiations because of their actions. Monsters like Hitler and Osama can only be dealt with by force. Hitler was a direct threat, Osama is a direct threat, and that provides some justification for attacking and pursuing them directly.
Iraq, however, is not and has never been (in my opinion) a direct threat to us. Due to the fact that we have not found any WMD we know how little of a threat Iraq was. Add to that the conclusions by the Congressional 9/11 Panel that found no links between Iraq and 9/11, the war in Iraq seems unjustified.
Like I said above. He had his chance to let inspectors in. If he didnt have womd then why deny inspectors rights to enter buildings and talk to scientists. You have to use common sense. Your President Bush. You know there were no inspectors in Iraq from 1998 to 2003... he could do anything he pleased. When you get inspectors back in Saddam doesnt let them see anything. I mean guy look at the evidence we had on him. We had taped conversations and we had pictures of mobile labs. He had biological and chemical weapons. Where they are now is beyond me. Thats alot of desert to cover while your still fighting a war man.

As far Hitler.... Saddam invaded Kuwait and had we not done anything he would have invaded Saudia Arabia.... 2 years alter he threatened to invade Kuwait again. He used chemical wepaons on his own people. He killed his own people used oil for food money to build his palaces. If anything he was a modern day Hitler that if we let continue who knows what he would do in 5 years.

Why we had to wait till 2003 to get rid of him is beyond me

Quote:

I hope this clears up what I said before. Like I said in my first post, these are difficult topics to discuss online. Let me know if I'm still not making my point clear.
I understand what your trying to say.

Jason[/QUOTE]
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Old 08-12-2004, 01:24 PM   #80
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You are ignoring the possibility that there never was any WMD.
We went to war over WMD. For that to happen we should have known for sure it was there. In order to know for sure, we would have seen it and verified it. If we saw it and verified it, then we knew where it was. We must have had a picture, a satellite image, spy/intelligence reports, something verifying it 100%.
We should not have tried to "find" anything. We should have known where it was before we fired a shot. Since we have not found anything, that tells me we really did not know it was there in the first place.
Common sense tells me if it was there we would have found it. Big desert or not, I guarantee every inch if ground in Iraq has been imaged by a satellite and examined. We have had troops on the ground there with no restrictions on movement for many months. They can go wherever they want. They have had plenty of time and a virtually unlimited budget. They are out of excuses. Since they have not found anything, all that is left for me is a "Maybe they have WMD".

"Maybe they have WMD" is not good enough of a reason for me to go to war.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
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Old 08-12-2004, 02:22 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by akira01
You are ignoring the possibility that there never was any WMD.
We went to war over WMD. For that to happen we should have known for sure it was there. In order to know for sure, we would have seen it and verified it. If we saw it and verified it, then we knew where it was. We must have had a picture, a satellite image, spy/intelligence reports, something verifying it 100%.
We should not have tried to "find" anything. We should have known where it was before we fired a shot. Since we have not found anything, that tells me we really did not know it was there in the first place.
Common sense tells me if it was there we would have found it. Big desert or not, I guarantee every inch if ground in Iraq has been imaged by a satellite and examined. We have had troops on the ground there with no restrictions on movement for many months. They can go wherever they want. They have had plenty of time and a virtually unlimited budget. They are out of excuses. Since they have not found anything, all that is left for me is a "Maybe they have WMD".

"Maybe they have WMD" is not good enough of a reason for me to go to war.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
Proof is impossible to find without cooperation. Sure we could have let inspectors play games with saddam for years and years more. It seems to me you jsut want to sit back and wait till a womd is found or they use them on us....

well your not going to find womd if you cant look where you want to can you?

If Questions are irrelevant. Everythng under the sun intelligence wise told us he had womd.

General Tommy Franks said it best:

"The only time dead certainty applies is in a dream world"

"In January 2003, two months before the Iraq war, Jordan's King Abdullah and Egypt's President Hosni Mubarak both told Franks that Saddam Hussein had chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction. According to Franks, Mubarak told him point blank: "Saddam has WMD-biologicals, actually-and he will use them on your troops."

Again I can give you tons of more intelligence that said he had them. You dont ignore intelligence you act on it. Ignoring it gets you in trouble, aka 9/11.

I dont udnerstand how you can say he didnt have them. He had all the time in the world to hide them, sell them and move them around. You dont understand a Satellite image doesnt show you everything. There is no replacement for actual people.

You cant take of picture of something if you dont know where it is.

I have asked myself if he had them or not.

I believe he had them and they are somewhere in Iraq.

Patience is a *****. We are still fighting the war. Not like we can just go whereever the hell we want and we cant dig the whole country up in a year.
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Old 08-12-2004, 03:00 PM   #82
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about usama/osama's family, whichever i prefer to spell it the way that is most offisive to him personally, not muslims. i have read in numerous magazines, TIME, and some fancy *** magazine with goerge clooney on the cover. and both specifically stated, with interviews of the pilots that were given specific dont ask dont tell instructions to remove his family from the united states. i remember most of what one interview entailed. it was a pilot who worked closly with the government, he was called to come down to the airport in florida i believe, he told the man on the phone about the 48 hr no fly, and the man said dont worry about it. when he got their he ws briefed about where he was going NOT who he was taking. while sitting on the runway a government official made "a call" to get the go ahead. when he hung up the phone he said , the man gave us a go. he droped 6-8 of osama's immediate family in europe somewhere. along the way he asked who this was in the back and slowly got the information out of him that it was indeed osama's family, and they BOTH wondered why in the world they were currently in a room being asked question about anything.

i really dont believe that it is a fabrication i believe it was a simple buisness act on bush's part, they had helped him out tremendously financially, and true, osama's family is not muslim extremeist like him and they denounce anything he does. but i strongly believe that they really should have been asked some questions, maybe they would have known something about his finances, i dont know as much about financial trade but i know that with proper authorization countries can freeze accounts of suspects.

and to brent i definately enjoy debating with you, i enjoy learning things, and learning things from the person on the otherside of the table is great. we definately have our differences in political light, but thats what makes for good debates, oh and also when people hold an open mind and know what they are talking about. since joining this forum i have learned alot about the southern view, i used to be very strongly against bush no i am still not for him but i believe he has done a few things to help us that i didnt notice before. i have also realized kerry's faults. i simply believe that the man who doesnt want to be president is the one to vote for, unfortunately this form of governement does not give that liberty. its is and extremely financially motivated governement,
and realized how different north and south still are. its very intriguing

- looking forward to more education posts from you and fishers and the others who know what they are talking about and not reciting their parents opinion.

and in response to them hiding wmd. they most definately did. hussien knew years ago that he was walking a thin thin line and it was onytime before they would invade. those weapons have been hidden for years if you ask me , NOT destroyed simply hidden. a person i go to college with came from iraq and was here in the beginning of the whole things 2 years ago, when asked his opinion he stated this. you will never find anything you are looking for in the country there are intricate arounderground mazes designed decades ago with no maps. they cover the entire city, no one knows how to get in and if your in youll never get out. i higly doubt we will ever find the wmd, personally. but i do believe that if we hadnt done a thing and continually put pressure on saddam he would have them fast tracked back in and assembled.
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Old 08-12-2004, 08:17 PM   #83
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umm I am reading alot about WMD this and that.. I am a have been to a few WMD classes in my time now, and anything can be a WMD. I wanted Bush to go to war to the people that killed my Brothers(Firefighter term) and everyone else that died.. WMD was just a spin off to get the rest of the country and world to back us. GO BUSH<
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Old 08-12-2004, 09:24 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by akira01
I have not seen any evidence, however, that links Iraq to any of this. I should point out that the Congressional 9/11 Panel did not find concrete evidence of Iraqi involvement either.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,126955,00.html

Thought they didnt find any links?

Quote:
NEW YORK — While the Sept. 11 commission found that contacts between Al Qaeda (search) and Iraq existed in the past, it also pointed to another country with potential ties to the terror network: Iran.
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Old 08-12-2004, 09:24 PM   #85
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btw dont get me started on the economy either
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Old 08-12-2004, 10:35 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Brent
btw dont get me started on the economy either
o come on Brent, U know u want to hear all the sad stories about how they cant geta job and the Govt should pay for everything and police and fire dont need new things, or make 1/2 as much $ as what they make.... o and gas price wow lowest price now here is 1.76 a gal. come on brent, please...
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Old 08-12-2004, 11:57 PM   #87
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My views are my views. I dont want to come off like I know everything because I dont. I just take what I see and make the best judgement I can. I got my views on the current economy and why its where its at. I got my views on other political issues.

Lets not down the people that disagree with you as long as they present themselves well. Those that actually know what they are talking about.

This thread has served its purpose I believe. If you want to talk about it further with someone in this thread pm them. Feel free to post political threads. Just keep them reasonable and there will be no flaming of anyone.
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