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Old 12-30-2008, 04:29 PM   #36
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Re: We Are Scared!

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Originally Posted by Rocket 442 View Post
The 442 will be done by September. It's just getting a hairdryer and a few other features.
Cool, then I'm back to my choice of the 442 first, cause I like 442s...
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Old 12-30-2008, 05:38 PM   #37
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Re: We Are Scared!

I think the rear of the 2010 Mustangs are hideous, and it still looks better than the Camaro's. It just looks plain silly.
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Old 12-30-2008, 06:41 PM   #38
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Re: We Are Scared!

someone should link the thread on svtperformance where they are making fun of the new camaro over on that site lol if they think we are scared of it
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Old 12-30-2008, 07:33 PM   #39
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Re: We Are Scared!

I think ridicule is a common response to something that is feared.
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Old 12-30-2008, 07:37 PM   #40
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Re: We Are Scared!

let me give u a chevy guys point of view. their are several factors that killed the camaro. GMs poor marketing of the brand. the styling is another factor. price was one of the biggest problems. along with incsurance being higher on a camaro. when your main market is the middle class. the cheaper of the two is going to win everytime. i understand this is a mustang site but to compaire the cars side by side. the camaro wins in every catagory other than styling and price. and i understand that it can be the best car in the world but if it doesn't sell it has to go. the car did not kill itself. GM and the inscurance company did.
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Old 12-30-2008, 08:17 PM   #41
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Re: We Are Scared!

^^^ I think that is what we've been saying...that the lack of marketing and the target audience killed the camaro. That it didn't matter if it beat the mustang in power...that power does not mean you will survive. That is what we were saying.

Many claim ford will need to step up because the V6 has 300 hp....or because the V8 model will be 400 hp. Ford doesn't need to step up and boost power to continue to win the battle. They didn't through the 80's and 90's...and they won't have to now.

GM sucks at marketing. Their biggest advertisements can be found on MTV, BET, and Fuse. HOwever, those adds are for vehicles that can fit 24s...so they won't be helping the camaro make it.

The current styling is horrible. Sure, some chevy die hards love it. But, the mullet boys, the ones they need to target, are not going to love this car. It is not going to make it and will get axed again real fast if it doesn't start turning a profit right off the bat. With GM falling flat on their face right now, if this car does make it to official release...ever...and hits a dealership floor...ever...it will need to turn a profit like now.

Speaking of which, this car should have come out years ago. What is it now, 4 years since the concept was revealed? IT has taken way too long to get this car to market...
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Old 12-30-2008, 08:48 PM   #42
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Re: We Are Scared!

Its got over 10,000 Pre-Orders already.

I'm not sold on if it'll do well either, but only time will tell.
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Old 12-30-2008, 09:38 PM   #43
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Re: We Are Scared!

I know one of those preorders...

Not my cup of tea...but I'm not the one buying them. Should be fun once they hit the street.
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Old 12-30-2008, 10:46 PM   #44
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Re: We Are Scared!

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I know one of those preorders...

Not my cup of tea...but I'm not the one buying them. Should be fun once they hit the street.
OOH OOH I KNOW WHO IT IS!

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^^^my fave V8 chick ^^^
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Old 12-31-2008, 06:26 AM   #45
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Re: We Are Scared!

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OOH OOH I KNOW WHO IT IS!

I want a picture of it between two of our cars just to show how big it is...
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Old 12-31-2008, 12:15 PM   #46
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Re: We Are Scared!

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I want a picture of it between two of our cars just to show how big it is...
lol.. you know you gotta be there when the shipment comes in.

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^^^my fave V8 chick ^^^
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Old 12-31-2008, 12:31 PM   #47
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Re: We Are Scared!

GM is actually having to sue one of it's suppliers for the camaro.

GM suing supplier to keep Camaro production going - Autoblog

i guess if gm doesn't get their way that will push back production.
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Old 12-31-2008, 02:32 PM   #48
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Re: We Are Scared!

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Old 12-31-2008, 04:39 PM   #49
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Re: We Are Scared!

Thats been the rundown for quite some time. Only problem is the Mustang Sells more.

Personally I'd love to see the Camaro do well and hope it does, because the only argument ford guys have is that the mustang sells more. Everything else is owned by the Camaro when they're pinned head to head, and it's been that way for quite a while.

If Chevy sells as many Camaros as Ford does Mustangs, what will be the response by Mustang Owners then?
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Old 12-31-2008, 08:11 PM   #50
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Re: We Are Scared!

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If Chevy sells as many Camaros as Ford does Mustangs, what will be the response by Mustang Owners then?
Took you long enough.
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Old 12-31-2008, 08:42 PM   #51
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Re: We Are Scared!

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Took you long enough.
Then you'll see tons of craigslist ads for Mustangs.

Honestly though, you buy a Pony Car for the basic speed aspect. Why buy the slowest of the 3?
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Old 12-31-2008, 08:44 PM   #52
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Re: We Are Scared!

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Originally Posted by Rocket 442 View Post
Then you'll see tons of craigslist ads for Mustangs.

Honestly though, you buy a Pony Car for the basic speed aspect. Why buy the slowest of the 3?
No, YOU buy a pony car for the basic speed aspect. Pony cars are about much more than sheer speed. That's what muscle cars are about. The fact that GM still has yet to figure this out is why the Camaro is gonna flop once again.
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Old 12-31-2008, 09:56 PM   #53
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Re: We Are Scared!

Pony cars were about speed and "Handling". I'm sure you know they were made to be mid-sized cars with V8's.

Obviously there is more to buying a pony car than just speed and handling but enlighten me on what the Mustang in 2010 has, that the Camaro doesn't. Both are similar cars.
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Old 12-31-2008, 10:43 PM   #54
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Re: We Are Scared!

personally im surprised at how ugly it is compared to the concept, I was going to sell my mustang for the new camaro, now it looks like I might be going the challenger route, BTW my mustang will stomp any of the 3 new pony cars, into the ground.... so no, speed isn't the point.
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Old 12-31-2008, 10:59 PM   #55
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Re: We Are Scared!

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Originally Posted by Rocket 442 View Post
Pony cars were about speed and "Handling". I'm sure you know they were made to be mid-sized cars with V8's.

Obviously there is more to buying a pony car than just speed and handling but enlighten me on what the Mustang in 2010 has, that the Camaro doesn't. Both are similar cars.
Let's see... 1) It doesn't look like absolute ****. Just a personal opinion that millions of other people also happen to share. 2) It doesn't have a tumor in the passenger floor board (hopefully GM corrected that in the new ones though...) 3) It doesn't weigh 2 tons, even though it's still overweight. 4) It's a Mustang. It is the original pony car. It has a heritage that the Camaro can only dream of. 5) Most importantly of course... When you buy one, you can post it up on Ford Mustang | Mustang Forums for Ford Mustang Enthusiasts without getting ripped for it.

I've also yet to see how this new Camaro handles, while the S197 Mustang platform is proven to perform in the twisties.
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Old 01-01-2009, 10:47 AM   #56
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Re: We Are Scared!

I think what makes the mustang more popular is the in-tangible things that cant be measured based only on looking at the vehicle or using statistics about that vehicle. The mustang has a heritage that the camaro does not, but the mustang was not the first pony car, it got beat by a very little bit of time to the market.

When you ask someone unbiased what the most American American car is 9 times out of 10 they say mustang

Regardless of all this ford has to protect that and keep doing good things to stay on top.. and with the new mustang they have some work to make up.. and hopefully the hp/tq add ons next year will help. One thing many have not talked about is the ford factory offered supercharger options on the gt, a 400 hp level and a 500 hp level.
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Old 01-01-2009, 02:24 PM   #57
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Re: We Are Scared!

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Originally Posted by Rocket 442 View Post
Thats been the rundown for quite some time. Only problem is the Mustang Sells more.

Personally I'd love to see the Camaro do well and hope it does, because the only argument ford guys have is that the mustang sells more. Everything else is owned by the Camaro when they're pinned head to head, and it's been that way for quite a while.

If Chevy sells as many Camaros as Ford does Mustangs, what will be the response by Mustang Owners then?
2003 SVT Cobra

Even though the camaro/firebird died out in 02, once the 03 cobra came out, most of the chevy guys shut up for a while. I was young, but still remember it. Of course, the common response from the bowtie guys was "well, the camaro is gone now, ford's a little late". No, Ford was right on time. Ford was able to outlive the camaro, then create a factory behemoth to seal the deal. My uncle had more than 5 friends that were chevy nuts in california that bought 03/04 cobras, and then they were punishing the 02 SS's.
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Old 01-01-2009, 07:37 PM   #58
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Re: We Are Scared!

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Originally Posted by sonicpony03 View Post
2003 SVT Cobra

Even though the camaro/firebird died out in 02, once the 03 cobra came out, most of the chevy guys shut up for a while. I was young, but still remember it. Of course, the common response from the bowtie guys was "well, the camaro is gone now, ford's a little late". No, Ford was right on time. Ford was able to outlive the camaro, then create a factory behemoth to seal the deal. My uncle had more than 5 friends that were chevy nuts in california that bought 03/04 cobras, and then they were punishing the 02 SS's.
Where is SVT now..? You can also compare pricing on those 2 cars and see the SVT is a whole ~5k more.

Again BBunt.. you talk about stying. Millions of people also enjoy the styling. Not just chevy fanbois, but you're also biased to naturally hate the Camaro because you drive a Mustang. I've owned both a Mustang and Camaro and both are decent cars, I just think one outperforms the other in most areas.

Honestly, I could give 2 ****s about heritage. All heritage gets you is credit in the past with me. I don't look at a Corvette and think "OMG I gotta buy this because it was the first real american sports car", I'd buy one if I enjoyed how the new ones felt. Same goes with the mustang. There is quite a difference between 1965 and 2009, so its sorta a moot point for me. Sure some people buy it for its history, but they're just kidding themselves, just like corvette owners do that they have a piece of american history. Unless you've got a 1982 vette, you're not really part of history.

As for "twisties". If you've paid attention to the auto industry GMs doing quite fine with handling and their cars. Just take a look at some Nurburgring times. CTS-V is the fastest Sedan, ZR1 is just behind the ACR, and the Cobalt SS is even up there in its laptimes. I'm willing to bet the Camaro will do just fine in the handling dept.
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Old 01-01-2009, 09:29 PM   #59
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Re: We Are Scared!

Rocket. it sucks to say it but you will never make these guys understand. mustang guys will always bash camaro guys on style and dropping off the market, cause that is all they have to stand on. The camaro was and always will outproform the mustang. they talk trash and say how we think the LS motor isthe finger of god. It's just another generation of the small block chevy. which is the King of all motors. SVT has to add boost to their cars to even make them be able to compeat. when the old push rod motor kills them all. the GT500 makes 500hp on boost. the LS7 goes it all motor. and the ZR1 makes 620hp. and it's already crate motor. GM sucks cause it's suits are a bunch of asses and don't know how to give the people what they want.
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Old 01-01-2009, 10:03 PM   #60
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Re: We Are Scared!

I understand the argument that ford had to add a blower to the 4.6 to get it up to surpass the ls1, well they didnt have to they could have went with more cubes but I am glad they went with the blower, makes moding a hell of a lot cheaper, 450-500rwhp for very little invested and 100% drivable, not to bad overall to me. Plus I LOVE the blower sound. I dont really drag race, dont plan to, dont street race, hell I generally dont get on it hard lol so going fast in a straight line or hugging corners like im on rails isnt numero uno on my list. I just like the mustang more overall~ I considered a z06 and I would love to have one but its an entirly differnet car and shouldnt be compared to the mustang even though it is lol. I do hope to have a c6 z06 one day.
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Old 01-01-2009, 10:19 PM   #61
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Re: We Are Scared!

I don't bash the 4.6, its not a bad motor but it is nowhere near the level that the LS series is at. Ford guys say its a "40 year old technology". The problem with that argument is that 40 year old technology beats the 2008 Mustangs off the showroom floor, so... I'm not talking about the LS7, just the LS1 can still handle its own against a S197. In almost 10 years you'd think Ford would've progressed a bit more than that. other than the SVT Cobra, that just isn't the case.

Both cars are decent, and I know people have biases, but people here are a bit butt-hurt or something that usually a camaro is faster than a mustang.

Like I said, I've owned both and like them, but personally I think the camaro is better. Sure that is an opinion, but so is everyone elses. The only argument is its "ugly". The 2010 Mustang looks like an abortion to me, but I'm sure it'll sell because people are different, and have different tastes.
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Old 01-02-2009, 08:27 AM   #62
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Re: We Are Scared!

If so many people "enjoy the styling" of the Camaro, then why couldn't GM sell any?

And just because you don't care about heritage doesn't mean that no one else does. Sure, the department it probably helps most in is the 16 year old girls who want a Mustang because its "cool". But that's still the thing that separates the Mustang from the Camaro. It's the reason that the Mustang can survive through hard times when the Camaro cannot.

Quote:
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The camaro was and always will outproform the mustang.
I know 1992 was a long time ago, but still... how quickly we forget. I also don't see any new Camaros outperforming any new Mustangs today. The Camaro outperformed the Mustang for a decade. I didn't realize always was another word for a decade I guess.

Last I checked, this is a Mustang site. There are going to be people bashing the looks of the Camaro. We don't do it because we are "butt-hurt". We do it because it's fun, especially when there are GM boys around.
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Old 01-02-2009, 08:52 AM   #63
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Re: We Are Scared!

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And just because you don't care about heritage doesn't mean that no one else does. Sure, the department it probably helps most in is the 16 year old girls who want a Mustang because its "cool". But that's still the thing that separates the Mustang from the Camaro. It's the reason that the Mustang can survive through hard times when the Camaro cannot.
So what you are saying here is that in the time of high gas prices and girlie wuss men, the camaro sailed proudly into the sunset with its muscle car integrity intact while the mustang chopped its balls off and started coming on to teenage girls like a dirty pedo. I think that is what I am hearing.




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Old 01-02-2009, 08:56 AM   #64
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Re: We Are Scared!

Maybe you haven't caught on yet, but I've been talking about the 2010 Camaro, not the 2002. It's true they haven't sold any yet, but that's because its not on the market so its sorta hard to get it until February. Maybe I'm mistaking though, and its already for sale and you know something I don't

If you really wanna talk about a 2002 Camaro, we can and just compare that to a 2008 Mustang.

2008 Mustang GT:
0 to 60 mph: 5.1 seconds
1/4 Mile Time: 13.8 seconds

2002 Camaro SS:
0-60 mph: 5.3 seconds
1/4 Mile Time: 13.7 seconds @ 105.6 mph

Sure, the Mustang has really been outperforming the Camaro, way back from 8 years ago and they still are even

So from 1993-2008 is a bit more than a decade. I've got a weird feeling in 2010 it'll be the Camaro on the performance side winning it again. Sure, the Mustang has a great little niche for selling, hopefully the camaro does the same. If you guys were smart you'd hope the camaro would sell well to, because its obvious when you don't have competition, ford doesn't really take their performance to the next level.
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Old 01-02-2009, 09:09 AM   #65
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Re: We Are Scared!

I'm looking at a year by year comparison. Not a car built nearly 10 years ago to a car that is being built today. If you use that logic, a '69 Boss 429 is definitely faster than the LT1s and possibly faster than the LS1s... so the Mustang has been winning all along way back from 40 years ago. That logic just doesn't work.

So no... 1993-2002 is not a bit more than a decade.
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Old 01-02-2009, 09:14 AM   #66
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Re: We Are Scared!

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Originally Posted by ThaWill View Post
So what you are saying here is that in the time of high gas prices and girlie wuss men, the camaro sailed proudly into the sunset with its muscle car integrity intact while the mustang chopped its balls off and started coming on to teenage girls like a dirty pedo. I think that is what I am hearing.




(lol car fights)
1) Neither are muscle cars. 2) The Camaro didn't sail proudly into anything. Production was stopped because GM couldn't sell them. 3) Just because you're a freak who can think of nothing but molesting teenage girls, balls and "girlie wuss men" doesn't mean that this conversation is about any of those things. My uncle is a therapist who works in Huntsville if you would like me to give you his number.
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Old 01-02-2009, 11:31 AM   #67
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Re: We Are Scared!

I think this is just a lot of keyboard racing, and we should just wait to see what happens. I know that the camaro will not do as well in sales as the mustang. "it really never has" like i said before "price sells cars". rocket was only compairing the '02 to the '08 cause it was the last offering of the camaro. of course the 429 cobra jet would kill the LT1 and possibly the LS1, but that is apples and oranges. the correct compaire would be the cobra jet and the 427 yanko. but that's way off subject. I know this is a mustang site. and this is a loosing battle. I don't love the styling of the '10 camaro or the mustang. I do know that the mustang will kill the camaro in sales. The camaro will kill the mustang in performance. It depends on how you look at it. If your a car dealer the mustang wins, if your a gearhead and performance is the name of the game for you than the camaro wins. I have had 2 camaros a '79 Z28 and a '85 Z28, and the '85 sucked. this is my 2nd mustang and I love it. If you gave me the choice of a '02 camaro and a '02 mustang I would pick the camaro. if it was a '02 camaro and a '08 mustang, I pick the mustang. so far I like the '10 camaro over the mustang, but I haven't seen one yet. so I don't know I might change my mind.
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Old 01-02-2009, 11:35 AM   #68
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Re: We Are Scared!

Why does the camaro win if you are a gear head? It comes with more horsepower stock? So what? Who keeps Mustangs or Camaro's stock? Not 'gear heads'.

People buy the Mustang because they like it's looks and it's price. The fact that is comes with less horsepower doesn't mean much to someone who is going to tear into the car and personalize it.

It's old hearing Camaro owners talk down to Mustang owners and vice versa. It's not like GMC fan boys are perfect. Their entire company just got bailed out and almost went bankrupt.

I guess all that doesn't matter if you produce a car that is fast and doesn't sell though.
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Old 01-02-2009, 11:44 AM   #69
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Re: We Are Scared!

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I think this is just a lot of keyboard racing, and we should just wait to see what happens. I know that the camaro will not do as well in sales as the mustang. "it really never has" like i said before "price sells cars". rocket was only compairing the '02 to the '08 cause it was the last offering of the camaro. of course the 429 cobra jet would kill the LT1 and possibly the LS1, but that is apples and oranges. the correct compaire would be the cobra jet and the 427 yanko. but that's way off subject. I know this is a mustang site. and this is a loosing battle. I don't love the styling of the '10 camaro or the mustang. I do know that the mustang will kill the camaro in sales. The camaro will kill the mustang in performance. It depends on how you look at it. If your a car dealer the mustang wins, if your a gearhead and performance is the name of the game for you than the camaro wins. I have had 2 camaros a '79 Z28 and a '85 Z28, and the '85 sucked. this is my 2nd mustang and I love it. If you gave me the choice of a '02 camaro and a '02 mustang I would pick the camaro. if it was a '02 camaro and a '08 mustang, I pick the mustang. so far I like the '10 camaro over the mustang, but I haven't seen one yet. so I don't know I might change my mind.
Just a correction. Its Yenko.
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Old 01-02-2009, 11:47 AM   #70
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Re: We Are Scared!

what I meant is a stock to stock compaire a performance guy most of the time goes for more performance. of course gearheads don't leave anything stock, but just like guys love the '03-'04 cobra motor cause of it's ease to mod. it's easier to get to 500hp when you start from 400 instead of 300. I'm not bashing anyone. I said eariler that the suits at GM are killing the company, and Ford is killing GM in sales across the board. everything I post in this thread is just one persons opponion. It's not right or wrong. I say the camaro will outperform the mustang from looking that specs. of both cars. But when it comes out I may drive the camaro only to find out that it drives and feels like crap behind the wheel
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