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Old 10-14-2004, 12:40 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smurfin
I think I remember the economy starting to tank around the january 2001 time frame. Things start to level out, then boom, 9/11. 9/11 did set us back, and all of the bi-polorism policy that has been displayed by both sides of the debate since 2002 have not given the american people that fuzzy feeling they need.

There is way too much time spent on finger pointing and not enough spent on fixing the problem. As was stated earlier, the pres is not the only person that can come up with a solution and propose legislation. Everyone in the senate and the house are just as guilty as the pres as to why we have not done a good job of fixing the economy.

The country needs to come together as one, not only on the homefront, but also in washington. Specially in washington. Work together people...sheesh.
true true... and ALL are run by REPUBLICANS.... , democrats... not to blame, consider the finger pointed
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:41 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy_beaner
Fact: Clinton left US stock market: 14,000+
Fact: stock market now: roughly 10,000 and gaining I believe...

that's about 1/3 of the difference, so 30% less...
if you look into history, wars generally make economies rise... look at WWII, and WWI for that matter.
If...you look at those wars...the economy didn't immediately rise as soon as the war ended. It was the years following. And once again..Clinton's policies didn't fully take effect until he was out of office.
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:42 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy_beaner
true true... and ALL are run by REPUBLICANS.... , democrats... not to blame, consider the finger pointed
Not everyone in the House and Senate is Republican. A democrat can equally propose legislation, happens all the time, just nothing to help with any of this. So don't go blaming the Republicans for everything.
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:42 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent
Oh yea I forgot about Corporate Scandals!

(before you say it the scandals were going on before Bush took office )
that's not on a president... I don't blame Bush for that, unless he had stock, which is both tacky, and possibly illegal. Just, if you ask someone what they remember about who was president during Enron, one of the biggest corporate scandals ever, it pops up to Bush
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:43 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowflyn
Not everyone in the House and Senate is Republican. A democrat can equally propose legislation, happens all the time, just nothing to help with any of this. So don't go blaming the Republicans for everything.
run by Republicans = republican dominant.... which means they get control of votes if they want it... and you're damn straight I can blame republican representatives for some stuff... if they vote for it, I can blame them
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:44 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy_beaner
that's not on a president... I don't blame Bush for that, unless he had stock, which is both tacky, and possibly illegal. Just, if you ask someone what they remember about who was president during Enron, one of the biggest corporate scandals ever, it pops up to Bush
So you're blaming Bush for some executives screwing up?
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:45 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy_beaner
right, but I qualified my terms ... no confusion if you read the posts
I went back and read your posts and in multiple posts you stated that because you are anti-gay marriage, then you are anti-gay. That is the generalization I was trying to say we should avoid. You did say in 1 post that he is politically anti-gay, but that doesn't really say he isn't anti-gay. If you are politically anti-gay, wouldn't that also make you anti-gay?

Overall, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. :beer:
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:46 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowflyn
If...you look at those wars...the economy didn't immediately rise as soon as the war ended. It was the years following. And once again..Clinton's policies didn't fully take effect until he was out of office.
you want to give Bush credit for his rising economy now.... after he's been in almost 4 years, but Clinton's economy didn't take effect until after he was out of office, when he was in 8 years?... please refer to lowflyn's post as now nullified due to my statement .... put it this way. I do believe Smurfin pointed out that in 2001 is when the economy started to dive, and then level off somewhere... Bush was already president. Why would it suddenly dive when we switch president... after Bush had been president for a little while? Oh yeah, that's NOT CLINTON'S FAULT.
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:47 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smurfin
I went back and read your posts and in multiple posts you stated that because you are anti-gay marriage, then you are anti-gay. That is the generalization I was trying to say we should avoid. You did say in 1 post that he is politically anti-gay, but that doesn't really say he isn't anti-gay. If you are politically anti-gay, wouldn't that also make you anti-gay?

Overall, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. :beer:
no, you can have what you think is best for the country, i.e. politically anti-gay.... and you can have you own personal feelings, i.e. anti-gay
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:47 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy_beaner
true true... and ALL are run by REPUBLICANS.... , democrats... not to blame, consider the finger pointed
I'm pointing the finger too...at the repubs, the dems, the independants, the assistants, everyone in DC. They need to get over their childish party line arguments and get some work done.
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:48 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy_beaner
run by Republicans = republican dominant.... which means they get control of votes if they want it... and you're damn straight I can blame republican representatives for some stuff... if they vote for it, I can blame them
If Bush had not passed his tax cuts this economy would be in the gutter big time.
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:48 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowflyn
So you're blaming Bush for some executives screwing up?
DOH, READ MAN... what does my quote say that you quoted? It says "I do not blame Bush for that...." meaning, I don't blame Bush for the corporate scandals.
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:49 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent
If Bush had not passed his tax cuts this economy would be in the gutter big time.
It's not Bush to thank.... it's Allan Greenspan... he's an economical genious.. and he told Bush his tactics would tank the economy, Bush did it anyway
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:50 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy_beaner
you want to give Bush credit for his rising economy now.... after he's been in almost 4 years, but Clinton's economy didn't take effect until after he was out of office, when he was in 8 years?... please refer to lowflyn's post as now nullified due to my statement .... put it this way. I do believe Smurfin pointed out that in 2001 is when the economy started to dive, and then level off somewhere... Bush was already president. Why would it suddenly dive when we switch president... after Bush had been president for a little while? Oh yeah, that's NOT CLINTON'S FAULT.
Because its called the DotCom era came to a close. Technology halted. No one needed the latest and greatest computer, the one they had was suffiecent.

That is why the eceonomy started to fall in 2001
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:50 AM   #85
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If you'll go back and read the end of your quote..it points a finger at Bush being responsible.
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:50 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy_beaner
It's not Bush to thank.... it's Allan Greenspan... he's an economical genious.. and he told Bush his tactics would tank the economy, Bush did it anyway
What?
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:51 AM   #87
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On a side note... I believe this is the fastest growing thread in the history of mustangevolution...or v6stangs...or 232stangs...or in the history of us lol
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:52 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent
uh we did ask..... 2;

Let me tell you something.

remember the mission accomplished speech that George Bush made on teh Aircraft carrier?

You know why he did that?

Anyone?

Ok here is why,

General Tommy Franks was told by France and Germany that if the President got on National Teleivision and made said all Major Combat was over in iraq that they would send in troops to aide them

General Tommy Franks told President Bush this and President Bush said this on the Carrier

What did Germany and France do? They screwed us over. They changed their mind and said no.

You know what it is nice when it isnt just OUR troops over there dying. It would be even better if none of them died.

But you know what? France and Germany arent/wasnt going to help us in Iraq. If we asked nicely they wouldnt have helped us. They didnt want to give up their oil for food money. President Bush screwed that up for them. They dont like us.

F them
agreed, the UN is worthless... and we pay for most of it... F the UN
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:53 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowflyn
On a side note... I believe this is the fastest growing thread in the history of mustangevolution...or v6stangs...or 232stangs...or in the history of us lol
And it would be a killer topic to debate in person...takes too long to type a good response. You end up about 5 posts behind. Hell, I probably fell behind at least 3 typing this reply.
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:55 AM   #90
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alright, in response to "what?"... allan greenspan is responsible for trying to fix what presidents do to control the economy... he's the one that has interest rates at record lows now.... by the way, that's NOT a good thing. that's to promote spending, which stimulated the economy... Bush doesn't control interest rates... Allan Greenspan does. Secondly, lowflyn... seriously, read dude... I said "if they vote, I can blame them"... as in, I can blame a republican congress, them is plural.. one man can't be a plural
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:55 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy_beaner
agreed, the UN is worthless... and we pay for most of it... F the UN
Amen. We always send in at least 75 ish percent of the troops to an incident anyhow. Then, we end up funding most of bill too. It isn't much different than now.
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:56 AM   #92
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secondly to Brent, the dotcom era failing... Clinton kept it alive, or it kept itself alive.... someone's got to.... being as it died, and now seems as though it's coming back is a good thing.... but someone's responsible
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:57 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smurfin
Amen. We always send in at least 75 ish percent of the troops to an incident anyhow. Then, we end up funding most of bill too. It isn't much different than now.
VOTE FUN, F the UN.... seriously, yeah, worthless, get rid of them and let the US be the UN.... just pay us money to do it, and we're good... or how 'bout the US collect all its debts... people owe us big time.... I do believe the World War loans are still out even... damn, that could help us pay down the national debt!, lol
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:58 AM   #94
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and the interest rates are begining to be raised again. Already did it once.

Tax cuts = good

John Kerry agrees, he just doesnt want to give cuts to small business owners aka wealthy people
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Old 10-14-2004, 01:00 AM   #95
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O well..I'm calling it a night, too hard to type a logical response with jack daniel's and nicotine and caffeine in my system..I will continue this tomorrow after classes lol
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Old 10-14-2004, 01:01 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent
and the interest rates are begining to be raised again. Already did it once.

Tax cuts = good

John Kerry agrees, he just doesnt want to give cuts to small business owners aka wealthy people
why WOULD you give a tax CUT to a wealthy person? They're the ones that don't NEED a tax cut, they're WEALTHY, lol. Not only that, but I wouldn't go as far as to say "small business owners = wealthy people".... not all small business owners are wealthy. I have a friend that owns an auto repair shop... he doesn't get a tax cut, and he's broke. Tax cuts can be good. But why give them away to the rich? Give them to someone that needs it. Give them to the middle class, or the lower middle class. Or give them to the people that don't make squat... or give them all to me... I like that last one
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Old 10-14-2004, 01:02 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy_beaner
VOTE FUN, F the UN.... seriously, yeah, worthless, get rid of them and let the US be the UN.... just pay us money to do it, and we're good... or how 'bout the US collect all its debts... people owe us big time.... I do believe the World War loans are still out even... damn, that could help us pay down the national debt!, lol
Wow, someone else that thinks like me. Hey, weren't we just disagreeing?

We need to have a policy of "run yourself, if someone comes in and takes you over and you want help, it is going to cost you X amount of dollars per day." If we are going to be the world police, then we should get paid for the job I think. We bailed out Kuwait, and now they, being part of OPEC (i believe) are jacking prices up in fear of soft oil prices. I say screw you...we bailed you out, you give us discounted oil. We need to stop being such pushovers and doing stuff for free.

I don't remember other countries coming to our shores when Pearl Harbor happened, or 9/11 happened. Why should we be such nice guys?
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Old 10-14-2004, 01:02 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowflyn
O well..I'm calling it a night, too hard to type a logical response with jack daniel's and nicotine and caffeine in my system..I will continue this tomorrow after classes lol
*cough* quiter *cough*
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Old 10-14-2004, 01:03 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy_beaner
secondly to Brent, the dotcom era failing... Clinton kept it alive, or it kept itself alive.... someone's got to.... being as it died, and now seems as though it's coming back is a good thing.... but someone's responsible
lol dude you cant keep something like that alive. No one can. Bush couldnt and Clinton couldnt. Thats something that runs its course. After 8-9 years of flourishing it gave. It had to. There was no way it could keep going and going. It started to give. Nothing big we knew it was going to happen. That is why Bush did the tax cuts.

Then you know what? 9/11 happened and that not so big decline got turned into a very very big deal. The Nation was shut down for 3 days. Businesses went under, no one was spending money. Nothing was happening for awhile. Now people are getting back into their usual routine. Things are ruturning back to "normal" the 9/11 shock to the economy is wearing off and we can get back into the groove of a up and down economy. What goes up must come down.

Clinton got lucky, he servered 8 years during the up

President Bush got screwed. he got handed the down and then some.

Voting a man out for something he cant control is retarded.
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Old 10-14-2004, 01:04 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by Smurfin
Wow, someone else that thinks like me. Hey, weren't we just disagreeing?

We need to have a policy of "run yourself, if someone comes in and takes you over and you want help, it is going to cost you X amount of dollars per day." If we are going to be the world police, then we should get paid for the job I think. We bailed out Kuwait, and now they, being part of OPEC (i believe) are jacking prices up in fear of soft oil prices. I say screw you...we bailed you out, you give us discounted oil. We need to stop being such pushovers and doing stuff for free.

I don't remember other countries coming to our shores when Pearl Harbor happened, or 9/11 happened. Why should we be such nice guys?
because the world *****es when we aren't... I say screw Iraq, we're spending x dollars over there to get rid of your ****ty *** dictator, we're taking x dollars worth of oil back to compensate... get your affairs in order and shut the hell up... but that'd probably lead to more attacks... of course, we could've bombed the living **** out of them and made them the world export leader in glass... (sand + BIG BOMB = glass...)
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Old 10-14-2004, 01:06 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Brent
lol dude you cant keep something like that alive. No one can. Bush couldnt and Clinton couldnt. Thats something that runs its course. After 8-9 years of flourishing it gave. It had to. There was no way it could keep going and going. It started to give. Nothing big we knew it was going to happen. That is why Bush did the tax cuts.

Then you know what? 9/11 happened and that not so big decline got turned into a very very big deal. The Nation was shut down for 3 days. Businesses went under, no one was spending money. Nothing was happening for awhile. Now people are getting back into their usual routine. Things are ruturning back to "normal" the 9/11 shock to the economy is wearing off and we can get back into the groove of a up and down economy. What goes up must come down.

Clinton got lucky, he servered 8 years during the up

President Bush got screwed. he got handed the down and then some.

Voting a man out for something he cant control is retarded.
it's been 3 years Brent. The usual routine should've set in.. ohhh, 2 and a quarter years ago.. giving a man a free ride is retarded. The man had his chance... trim the bush
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Old 10-14-2004, 01:07 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by jimmy_beaner
why WOULD you give a tax CUT to a wealthy person? They're the ones that don't NEED a tax cut, they're WEALTHY, lol. Not only that, but I wouldn't go as far as to say "small business owners = wealthy people".... not all small business owners are wealthy. I have a friend that owns an auto repair shop... he doesn't get a tax cut, and he's broke. Tax cuts can be good. But why give them away to the rich? Give them to someone that needs it. Give them to the middle class, or the lower middle class. Or give them to the people that don't make squat... or give them all to me... I like that last one
I dont think you udnerstand.

When John Kerry says tax cuts for the rich, the rich are looked at as 200k a year and more

You know how many small business owners take in 200k dollars a year or more? There are alot of businesses out there that have that income level.

By rich we arent talking millions of dollars a year we are talking about 200k dollars and above.

And regardless you shouldnt be punished because you are weathly, thats just retarded. They worked hard for their money. (now I am not talking about people like Paris Hilton and celebs, I am talking about your Docotrs and small business owners and people like that. 8 years of college takes a toll on your wallet guys)
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Old 10-14-2004, 01:07 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by jimmy_beaner
why WOULD you give a tax CUT to a wealthy person? They're the ones that don't NEED a tax cut, they're WEALTHY, lol. Not only that, but I wouldn't go as far as to say "small business owners = wealthy people".... not all small business owners are wealthy. I have a friend that owns an auto repair shop... he doesn't get a tax cut, and he's broke. Tax cuts can be good. But why give them away to the rich? Give them to someone that needs it. Give them to the middle class, or the lower middle class. Or give them to the people that don't make squat... or give them all to me... I like that last one
Wow, I got scared at that agreeing point. This is better. I am not rich by no means, and I remember getting more money each week in my check after the cuts. I got a big check, and then each week my check was a few dollars more. So, I make under 100k and I got more money each week, so therefore I received a tax cut too. The rich naturally got more of a cut because 5% of 50k will always be less than 5% of 200+k.
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Old 10-14-2004, 01:07 AM   #104
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I not a quitter...it's just 1:10 AM and I have class at 9:30, and I just finished driving 3 hours round trip right before I got on here. So yeh..I guess I am a quitter lol. Talk to you guys tomorrow
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Old 10-14-2004, 01:08 AM   #105
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has anyone realized I gained like 50 posts tonight? Do I get the official post whore decal for my car?
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