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-   -   Truth about the Boss 302 IM (http://www.mustangevolution.com/forum/f358/t339539/)

bigmac3 08-14-2013 10:23 AM

Truth about the Boss 302 IM
 
I have been reading with great interest about possibly installing a Boss 302 IM on my GT. There are some really great in depth threads on how to pull this off. Those who have done it rave about how great the results are.

Then there is the other side that says without changing cams and pistons nothing is really gained, and the same results can actually be achieved with a proper tune.

Does anyone know of any accurate dyno-test data to verify all this one way or the other?

McQueen 08-14-2013 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigmac3 (Post 1759652)
I have been reading with great interest about possibly installing a Boss 302 IM on my GT. There are some really great in depth threads on how to pull this off. Those who have done it rave about how great the results are.

Then there is the other side that says without changing cams and pistons nothing is really gained, and the same results can actually be achieved with a proper tune.

Does anyone know of any accurate dyno-test data to verify all this one way or the other?

If u want to stay N/A wait for the cobra jet mani and with supporting bolt ons get low 500hp easy! And wouldn't have heat problems like with a supercharger or turbo :)

DWC_SmOziLLa 08-14-2013 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McQueen (Post 1759688)

If u want to stay N/A wait for the cobra jet mani and with supporting bolt ons get low 500hp easy! And wouldn't have heat problems like with a supercharger or turbo :)

Ok. I'm curious to know your definition of "supporting bolt ons". You are about at the ragged edge with 500rwhp NA. Having to spin in upwards of 7850rpms is a recipe for disaster with what you consider "supporting bolt ons". Yes it's been done so flame on. If your not installing BOSS valve springs, boss exhaust cams, billet oil pump gears, considering the MMR cooling mod, possibly 47# injectors, e85 or race gas, and mild head work. Then the CJ Intake is not for you. Not to mention the intake, TB, custom cai, and finding someone to tune it. So lets add this up. I'm getting close to $4,000 or more to do it right, not including labor. For what, bragging rights? If your the kinda guy that enjoys spending that kinda money for 60 Rwhp more than me, go for it. 500rwhp has been achieved with the boss intake and "supporting bolt ons" before. Without the engine ever seeing anywhere near 8000rpms. So this is where I would typically say that this forum was better without you, you serve no purpose, you're a liar and all around ******. But I'm not gonna say that. I'll refrain

McQueen 08-14-2013 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWC_SmOziLLa (Post 1759711)

Ok. I'm curious to know your definition of "supporting bolt ons". You are about at the ragged edge with 500rwhp NA. Having to spin in upwards of 7850rpms is a recipe for disaster with what you consider "supporting bolt ons". Yes it's been done so flame on. If your not installing BOSS valve springs, boss exhaust cams, billet oil pump gears, considering the MMR cooling mod, possibly 47# injectors, e85 or race gas, and mild head work. Then the CJ Intake is not for you. Not to mention the intake, TB, custom cai, and finding someone to tune it. So lets add this up. I'm getting close to $4,000 or more to do it right, not including labor. For what, bragging rights? If your the kinda guy that enjoys spending that kinda money for 60 Rwhp more than me, go for it. 500rwhp has been achieved with the boss intake and "supporting bolt ons" before. Without the engine ever seeing anywhere near 8000rpms. So this is where I would typically say that this forum was better without you, you serve no purpose, you're a liar and all around ******. But I'm not gonna say that. I'll refrain

So you don't want me here :( that makes me really sad lmao, go tell your mother maybe she will Listen haha :)

On another note, you don't need all that you listed, and OP keep an eye out for Chicane 23 website they will have a complete kit they are building with the CJ mani for around $2300 and they will offer some discounts to the first buyers.

DWC_SmOziLLa 08-14-2013 12:34 PM

In a strictly bolt on application without doing the above mentioned you'll only see 20-30rwhp over the boss intake if your lucky. For $2300! That's nowhere near your forecasted 500hp. And not even remotely worth it.

McQueen 08-14-2013 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWC_SmOziLLa (Post 1759775)
In a strictly bolt on application without doing the above mentioned you'll only see 20-30rwhp over the boss intake if your lucky. For $2300! That's nowhere near your forecasted 500hp. And not even remotely worth it.

I am repeating what chicane 23 and ford racing told me, I am not a mechanic or an expert. The only thing we can do is wait till it comes out and see what the average joe is actually getting. But I will most definably will not pay 2300 for just 20-30 hp over the boss. Time will tell!

2013fiveO 08-14-2013 01:22 PM

You can find dyno sheets all over different forums. The only thing "lost" is very slight low end torque normally below 2500 rpms from what I've read. I bought a throttle body because lots of people say it makes up for the slight low end loss.

I had nothing but gains across my entire powerband. I've had my mustang for over a year and daily drive it so I know where the power is. Today was my wife's first time riding in my car after the boss intake install. I did a hard pull all the way through 3rd and she closed her eyes saying her stomach sunk like on a roller coaster. Something she never said before. That is good enough for me. :lol:

I'll follow up with my 1/4 ET times after the track next month.

bigmac3 08-14-2013 01:36 PM

That is good enough for me. http://cdn.mustangevolution.com/foru...s/icon_lol.gif

That all sounds well and good and I'm glad for you. What I would like to see is a before and after on the same car and was it tuned to the max before the change?

DWC_SmOziLLa 08-14-2013 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McQueen (Post 1759779)

I am repeating what chicane 23 and ford racing told me, I am not a mechanic or an expert. The only thing we can do is wait till it comes out and see what the average joe is actually getting. But I will most definably will not pay 2300 for just 20-30 hp over the boss. Time will tell!

Are they your new sponsors? Saying you are no mechanic or expert is the most intelligent thing you've ever typed on this forum. And average joes have them, they're out in the market, revolution automotive and power by the hour have been doing numerous installs and testing. PBH even did a huge write up and comparison in MM&FF against the BOSS Intake, it was not impressive. And I forget, weren't you the guy who would pay $2300 for other parts they'll never utilize? Like the tiger racing super louver hood and the boss 302s spoiler. And yes, time will tell if you go and put your foot in your mouth again. You think because it's been a few months that enough people have come and gone on here or forgotten who you really are. That's not the case, I'm not the only one who wants you gone and eventually all these new guys your "helping" and asking advice from will see thru your BS. You sir, have been the joke of many of conversation during your absence and you're too stupid to realize that you still are.

bigmac3 08-14-2013 01:56 PM

...in MM&FF against the BOSS Intake...

I just read that article and you are correct. They tried three different combinations and that is a lot of money to spend for a 27rwhp gain and a slight drop in torque, but they do look cool. LOL.

ZLwhat 08-14-2013 01:58 PM

Well I'll make two points, just to stir the pot.


1. I'd love to have a boss mani. It looks awesome and could provide an awesome supporting mod for a centrifugal supercharger down the line. In the mean time, it allows for more power to be extracted while NA which is cool, but I question it's real worth in dollar-per-horsepower value. You are spending $500 plus if you are getting it new, and then you still need a tune for it afterwards which will put you out the cost of a tuner. Arguably, the both combined are worth it and that's probably true. However, if you are already tuned and have other bolt ons how much are you really getting out of it?

2. I've watched with my own two eyes.. The exact same car. A 2013 GHIG 5.0 track pack (recaros, 3:73s, brembos, 6MT etc) run the exact same track in a three day span. This car was completely stock, minus a steeda CAI, tune, and a set of LCA'S. This car could not run any quicker than a 13.11@109mph (keep in mind it's south Texas). This same car did some more modding (boss mani, bbk TB, and a set of flow master outlaws) and ran a best of 12.96@114. Both of these runs were on the stock tires on 19s, and the 60s were 2.03 and 2.06 respectively. I guess you could argue that if the car was maximized for track usage them more of a gain could be seen. But for some people that track once a month, if that, in their daily driver. The boss mani cool factor might not be enough.

McQueen 08-14-2013 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWC_SmOziLLa (Post 1759830)

Are they your new sponsors? Saying you are no mechanic or expert is the most intelligent thing you've ever typed on this forum. And average joes have them, they're out in the market, revolution automotive and power by the hour have been doing numerous installs and testing. PBH even did a huge write up and comparison in MM&FF against the BOSS Intake, it was not impressive. And I forget, weren't you the guy who would pay $2300 for other parts they'll never utilize? Like the tiger racing super louver hood and the boss 302s spoiler. And yes, time will tell if you go and put your foot in your mouth again. You think because it's been a few months that enough people have come and gone on here or forgotten who you really are. That's not the case, I'm not the only one who wants you gone and eventually all these new guys your "helping" and asking advice from will see thru your BS. You sir, have been the joke of many of conversation during your absence and you're too stupid to realize that you still are.

I think this guy found his girlfriend with the mail man, damn you are a bitter bit**ch hahaha :)
Just worry about u and you will be much happier and maybe she will love you again lmao :)

DWC_SmOziLLa 08-14-2013 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McQueen (Post 1759913)

I think this guy found his girlfriend with the mail man, damn you are a bitter bit**ch hahaha :)
Just worry about u and you will be much happier and maybe she will love you again lmao :)

:thumb:

evergne 08-14-2013 03:59 PM

I have heard that you are looking at 30-40hp over GT and 25RWHP over Boss. This is with a stock car. Everyone knows that combos are what really makes the difference. If you really want to stay N/A I will suggest to combine it with Cams. Afterall you have to do a custom tune (get 2 birds with one stone- or whatever the saying is-). Have in mind that you need additional the throttle (dual FRPP are awesome or GT500 stock could do) also you need a custom CAI. Good luck!

DeJoe8 08-14-2013 11:11 PM

From the very few cam reviews I've read, they're not even close to worth it on these cars, and an absolute PITA to tune!

chefron50 08-15-2013 02:31 AM

I went with a VMP supercharger on a 2013 boss and sold my take off parts to help offset the cost of the supercharger and I'm @ 600rwhp with no mid range lose. Very clean setup.

Moto111 08-15-2013 06:24 AM

500 hp with no blower? Damn I waste my 7k on my blower Jk a blower is only way I know to get 600hp safely

Mikeyt03 08-15-2013 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWC_SmOziLLa (Post 1759946)

:thumb:

You never quit. If so many people want him gone, its strange that youre the only one saying it.

TooSlow4U 08-15-2013 09:12 AM

On the mustang source forum there's a guy that spent near 10k and made just over 500 hp naturally aspirated. Sounded insane. Old school sound.

draxxus131 08-15-2013 10:33 AM

The poster just above me is talking about Lawman1 I believe, definitely check out his build. Likely the most balanced build for a 500+ hp Coyote, and in my honest opinion the best color KONAAAAAAAAAAA blue. That's right I said it "KONA". I said it again whoops. I was graced with a very lengthy conversation with this man through PM's. Pretty much he can rev safely to 8,000 if he so pleases whenever, but here's the kicker...wait for it.....wait..... ON PUMP GAS.

Now you can freely defecate your trousers!





:bow:

Don't take this as an insult either smozilla, but you should be the better person since your toting around the supporting member banner. But rather you should be assisting the OP in his question, just to set a good, you know "image" for these forums.

bigmac3 08-15-2013 11:39 AM

I think through all of the replies and the research I have done over the past day or so, I have come to the conclusion that I will, temporarily at least, just stick with my gears and a new tune. I've got a long way to go before I take on the Force family. Thanks to all.

Red Stallion 11 08-15-2013 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigmac3 (Post 1759652)
I have been reading with great interest about possibly installing a Boss 302 IM on my GT. There are some really great in depth threads on how to pull this off. Those who have done it rave about how great the results are.

Then there is the other side that says without changing cams and pistons nothing is really gained, and the same results can actually be achieved with a proper tune.

Does anyone know of any accurate dyno-test data to verify all this one way or the other?

Doesn't the powder blue GT From Am have the Boss Intake in it? Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't he gain 60+ HP with a tune and 302 Manifold?

draxxus131 08-16-2013 10:31 AM

If I do have one suggestion for you Bigmac3, I did notice you said stick with gears and a new tune. My word of advice would be to check out suspension components as well as exhaust mods. I have seen time and time again, full exhaust work can literally get you 50 horses at the crank, I don't have a calculator or anything on me but that roughly comes to about 35-38hp at the rear wheels. And by full I mean if the law permits it in your area: Long tubes if not shorty/mid length, mid pipe XorH (catted or catless) into a axleback of your choice. You could go the extra mile and delete both mufflers and resonators.

Personally adding any sort of power to your car will make the unloading of the suspension quite simple to eject to the side while driving i.e. power slide. If you haven't checked into it yet hold off on the tune and gears and check out some LCA/UCA/Shocks. These 3 items will make your car faster and you will feel it. Sure its not showing up in the powerband but you will feel your car accelerating easier because of proper posture to the road.

draxxus131 08-16-2013 10:39 AM

BTW majority of people are wrong about the boss 302 mani combining it with an aftermarket throttlebody. I personally have driven two cars whose owners did the exact same thing because some people told them it makes up for loss in low end torque. When is the last time you have ever seen a throttle body which is significantly larger then stock produce torque down low??? I haven't, mainly because increasing diameter size of a throttle body promotes better HP in the high end of the power band. Which in thus creates less fall on revs when coming to a stop

Mustang50 09-08-2013 01:48 AM

Pull the trigger!

GBlueGT 09-10-2013 07:17 AM

I have a 2013 GT, two weeks ago I bought a Boss intake, Steeda CAI, SCT Tune. We made a dyno run stock 373 HP. Installed the Boss intake, CAI, 93 tune put it on the dyno 403 HP it was hot so we ran it again in the morning same power. Today we are putting on a set of Kooks long tube headers, X pipe with cats from Kooks and a Corsa mufflers. The dyno is a Dyno Jet. I called American Mussel and asked about the HP increase I thought it was low, they explained that the numbers are about right. He said that the Boss intake will move the the power up higher, we did set the rpms at 7400 and it was making power at that rpm range. So we will see what it does after the exhaust work. He did tell me that would be the next power increase. about 25 to 35 HP more. I will keep you guys posted.

Rob

DallasStang77 09-13-2013 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Stallion 11 (Post 1761646)

Doesn't the powder blue GT From Am have the Boss Intake in it? Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't he gain 60+ HP with a tune and 302 Manifold?

I believe the powder blue in question gained roughly that amount but not peak HP. Stock GTs start to see a decline in power around 6500rpm so what the 60HP or so is referring to is that at 7300rpm or so a 302 IM equipped GT produces 60HP more than a stock GT but peak HP is is only I can't remember 15 or so more than stock peak HP.

What this means is that even though you only have 15HP more than max stock, at the higher spectrum of the bandwidth you will continue to pull stronger than a stock GT that will essentially run out of air.

So... Should you get it?

NO: if you're about bragging rights about how much HP your stang is putting out and don't care about if its actually faster and by how much

YES: if you track your car and find that WOT is the only way you car should drive.

Estimation: CAI, straight pipes, cat back exhaust w/ 3" Hpipe, BAMA hybrid tune... And plus 302 IM should net you close to about 430-435HP at 85deg ambient.

AMDanBailer 09-17-2013 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigmac3 (Post 1759652)
I have been reading with great interest about possibly installing a Boss 302 IM on my GT. There are some really great in depth threads on how to pull this off. Those who have done it rave about how great the results are.

Then there is the other side that says without changing cams and pistons nothing is really gained, and the same results can actually be achieved with a proper tune.

Does anyone know of any accurate dyno-test data to verify all this one way or the other?

In my opinion, the boss manifold is worth it. The boss manifold will shift your power band up top so your Mustang will pull like a freight train in the high RPM range. You don't really jeopardize much, maybe just a little low end torque. However, if you install the Manifold with a set of Gears, Long tubes, Throttle body or all of the above you'll never see a low end torque loss!

I installed the Boss Manifold, Airaid CAI, Full exhaust, 3.73's and a Bama custom tune all at one time. My car went from a high 12 second car, to a mid 11 sec car in about 8 hours! I haven't looked back since and have absolutely no complaints. I'm planning on doing Comp Cam Stage 3 Cams, a Clutch and Nitrous in the near future :thumb:.

Also to answer your question about our Grabber Blue 2011 GT project car, yes that car did pick up 60+ RWHP. This was not peak power, this was through out the power band!

Hope this helps your decision!

-Dan

GBlueGT 09-20-2013 08:44 AM

Finaly got the Kooks Headers on and X pipe with cats, Put it on the Dyno Jet yesterday and it picked up about 24 HP the torque was up about 35 FT Lbs so its about 428 RWH I need to check the Dyno sheet to see where the torque finished at. I will say its just bad fast to what it was before! It pulls like a monster now up to 7,500 and the sounds is almost like a Indy Car,, I'm more than happy now and no more changes for me.

Rob, Happy, Happy, Happy!

Rickytang 09-21-2013 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBlueGT (Post 1802231)
Finaly got the Kooks Headers on and X pipe with cats, Put it on the Dyno Jet yesterday and it picked up about 24 HP the torque was up about 35 FT Lbs so its about 428 RWH I need to check the Dyno sheet to see where the torque finished at. I will say its just bad fast to what it was before! It pulls like a monster now up to 7,500 and the sounds is almost like a Indy Car,, I'm more than happy now and no more changes for me.

Rob, Happy, Happy, Happy!

What kind of tune do you have bro ?

GBlueGT 09-22-2013 05:41 AM

The tune is a SCT 93 tune. As a side note I have a 70 year old friend who I let drive my GT yesterday who has some very nice and fast cars, has drag raced for years.He took it out alone for about a half hour when he came back he was just so impressed by the power and how the car ran, He has a corvette a Z06 don't know the year or the HP but he says the Mustang is a little faster in his opinion. He says the Mustang pulls harder from 3,500 rpms to 7,500 than his Vette does. I guess it's a pretty good statement from a lifelong chevy guy.

Rob


06:55 PM

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