I'm sure most of you already know

[Rocket 442]

but it's just eerily quiet in the general auto section so I'll spice it up a bit. Maybe it's just that you're ignoring the Camaro, or you still think its not being built. Problem is... its here.

Saw quite a bit of 2010 Camaro hate by some members.

If only it were the same in the professionals reviews.




Looks like the Camaro and Mustang are pretty close in the reviews, the common theme however, is how the Challenger is just lacking behind these 2 which is more than expected.

[SaleenFiend]

point? It will be a different story in less than a year when Ford releases the 5.0..

anyway it always goes back and forth.. let the fun begin!

[bbunt302]

Or maybe... we just don't care.

[hottcobra]

the camaro will never get the respect it deserves since it dropped off the earth for a few years

[lowflyn]

To be honest I don't see it sticking around for long

[matthews.stang]

Quote: Originally Posted by hottcobra the camaro will never get the respect it deserves since it dropped off the earth for a few years

This.

The Terminator buried the Camaro, a few short years ago, and it will happen again.

It looks nice now, but it three years it will become a boat anchor again.

[Rocket 442]

Quote: Originally Posted by matthews.stang The Terminator buried the Camaro, a few short years ago, and it will happen again.

Ehhh... thats dead wrong on all levels.

The "Terminator" as you call it was started in 2003. Camaro ended in 2002. The terminator had nothing to do with the axe of the f-body.

Quote: It looks nice now, but it three years it will become a boat anchor again.

It took until 2003 for Ford to even try to come up with an answer for the LS1 that was in the WS6 and SS, and the LS series engine (LS3,LS9) are still is beating the piss outta everything Ford has tried to throw out there. I don't think many GM guys are really worried about the dreaded 5.0 that is coming out, and they really shouldn't be. Those "boat anchors" are still one of the most popular engines over 10 years after they were released. Sorta like how you guys used to drool all over your foxbodies 5.0's... times change.

For a automobile fan to "not care" about other competing car companies cars is stupid as well. Competition makes each car better. We all saw what no competition did for Ford. Sure they sold quite a few, but the car hasn't really added any performance since the S197 began. Now that Dodge and Chevy are fighting they've gotta do something.

I think the car will last a while from the reviews, and pre-orders its got. GM as a whole is more of a worry than the Camaro.

[sonic04edge]

All I know is I would love to have all 3 in my drive way. I like them all. I am bias to mustangs, but seriously. I love all cars.

[bbunt302]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rocket 442 For a automobile fan to "not care" about other competing car companies cars is stupid as well. Competition makes each car better. We all saw what no competition did for Ford. Sure they sold quite a few, but the car hasn't really added any performance since the S197 began. Now that Dodge and Chevy are fighting they've gotta do something.

Yeah. You're right.

I still don't give a fuck.

[Herbstang]

Quote: Originally Posted by bbunt302 Yeah. You're right. I still don't give a fuck.

I'm with you Ben

[BLUE OVAL TURBO]

I will say this with all the sincerity in the world.... I hope that the Camaro/G-8/Corvette/etc, do well in the sales race. This being said i doubt most Ford (Mustang) enthusiast seriously consider's what MotorTrend/Car and Driver/Road&Track/etc, thinks about their car's. Even with the F-bodies being the better performer, Joe/Jane Public didn't pony up (pun intended) his/her hard earned currency to purchase enough to warrant continuation back in '02. The new Camaro's offering a 300+ hp V-6 base model and a 420+hp V-8 SS model will draw in several performance minded buyers. I just hope the economy recovers soon, otherwise the number of new cars period will diminish.

[PureVenom]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rocket 442 It took until 2003 for Ford to even try to come up with an answer for the LS1 that was in the WS6 and SS, and the LS series engine (LS3,LS9) are still is beating the piss outta everything Ford has tried to throw out there.

And it had the answer for them in 03, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, and 09....then again, a huffy could have beaten any camaro offering from those years....

[SaleenFiend]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rocket 442 It took until 2003 for Ford to even try to come up with an answer for the LS1 that was in the WS6 and SS, and the LS series engine (LS3,LS9) are still is beating the piss outta everything Ford has tried to throw out there. I don't think many GM guys are really worried about the dreaded 5.0 that is coming out, and they really shouldn't be. Those "boat anchors" are still one of the most popular engines over 10 years after they were released. Sorta like how you guys used to drool all over your foxbodies 5.0's... times change.

I'm sorry but what model Chevy has the LS3 Been released in? Oh, that's right a completely different class than what the Terminator was designed for. Also, How long after the production of the Terminator was the LS3 released in a production vehicle? 5/6 years right?????

The Cobra was not designed to compete against the Vette. Only the Camaro/Trans Am. During the production/design of the Terminator the Camaro and Trans Am were still being produced. Although talk of the slating of said models were around, nothing was concrete. Ford made an answer to the LS1 Category and destroyed it. Had an 03/04 SS Model been produced I'm sure the Cobra would have still been on top (without a doubt).

[Y2E0L0L5OGWT]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rocket 442 ...Sure they sold quite a few, but the car hasn't really added any performance since the S197 began. Now that Dodge and Chevy are fighting they've gotta do something...

I disagree completely...While the S197 Mustang platform hasn't added much performance in the way of HP numbers, they have made quite a few strides during the time in handling and overall maneurerability...Every generation of Mustang since the creation of the first Fox body has seen increases in handling and overal FUN for driving...You can increase the overall performance of a car without necessarily giving it an increase in HP...The F-bodys made good power with there LT and LS series engines, but let's face it, they handled and drove like sh!t...

As witnessed by the SRT-8, there is a line for which having a ton of power means nothing if the car isn't nimble enough to get out of it's own way...With it's size and slender wheel base, the SRT-8 is a boat and probably only fun to drive straight...

Now the SS makes even more power than the SRT-8 and has significantly better handling, but from an Autox standpoint which is what I spend most of my time engaging in, the new Mustangs will still own the Pony/Muscle car class (F-Stock) because it handles far better than the other two...

And IMHO, even though Ford hasn't given the S197 any significant power increases over the last 5 years, it still says something about the overal design and performance of the car if a solid rear axle car can still out handle and be quicker than cars with IRS making much more power...

[upton7]

for years the mustang has been the only muscle car its nice to have some diversity again

[bloodyspirit058]

just curious about this new 5.0, i haven't found a lot of info on it, cept that its supposed to be designed basically the same as the old one. just curious if someone had more details on what the specs are and what ford is doing to it. and if it has nice gains if the newer parts are swapable to older engines. thanks

[SaleenFiend]

Quote: Originally Posted by bloodyspirit058 just curious about this new 5.0, i haven't found a lot of info on it, cept that its supposed to be designed basically the same as the old one. just curious if someone had more details on what the specs are and what ford is doing to it. and if it has nice gains if the newer parts are swapable to older engines. thanks

last i heard it s was DI modular 5.0

[modular2valve]

its supposed to be a big bore version of the existing 3 valve thats in the gt.

[PureVenom]

Quote: Originally Posted by modular2valve its supposed to be a big bore version of the existing 3 valve thats in the gt.

No, it's actually a new motor. The bore spacings are wider and it is modular like...but it is not based on the current 3 valve.

[modular2valve]

gotcha.

[PureVenom]

Hey, I read it on the interwebz, so I know it is true.

But yeah, they had a thread on mod fords about it and people were quickly corrected about the origins of the new 5.0. It's supposed to have much better cam phasers too...so we shall see.

[Rocket 442]

Quote: Originally Posted by Y2E0L0L5OGWT I disagree completely...While the S197 Mustang platform hasn't added much performance in the way of HP numbers, they have made quite a few strides during the time in handling and overall maneurerability...Every generation of Mustang since the creation of the first Fox body has seen increases in handling and overal FUN for driving...You can increase the overall performance of a car without necessarily giving it an increase in HP...The F-bodys made good power with there LT and LS series engines, but let's face it, they handled and drove like sh!t...

Sure the S197 might be a bit faster on a AutoX Track, but any real track and it'll get beat. Honestly though, how many people buying one of these 3 cars really plans on autox'ing it? Sure there will be a few, but thats not what they're built for.

I'm sure someone will do a test with the 3, but I'm willing to bet that around a actual track the SS will be faster than the GT. Right now the GT is better around autocross because it weighs 300lbs less, which I give credit to ford for. The problem is once a car has to go in a straight line coming out of a corner the ford would get raped.

[SaleenFiend]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rocket 442 I'm sure someone will do a test with the 3, but I'm willing to bet that around a actual track the SS will be faster than the GT. Right now the GT is better around autocross because it weighs 300lbs less, which I give credit to ford for. The problem is once a car has to go in a straight line coming out of a corner the ford would get raped.

The Camaro might pull up a little, but if you are in the turn accelerating earlier and harder then the Camaro, then the Camaro will need the extra "ummph" to keep up...

[SpectorV]

I got an email with that in it earlier, I like how it turned out.. the challenger is an obvious last place in those three based on all around criteria. The Mustang might have taken first place if:

A. The camaro wasnt brand new and had the hype factor on it
B. The Mustang was actually built correctly to release specifications rather than prerelease standards
C. The Mustang actually had more power... 315 is pathetic... but it did still show well.

[upton7]

isn't there a new plymouth or sumtin and is there any word of maybe a firebird?

[hottcobra]

they scrapped the Plymouth brand several years. and they had a firebird on the drawing board but I don't think it has left the drawing board

[Bane-]

never thought I would hear the the new mustang called light, but when its compared to those 2 it is. I had no idea the challenger was such a pig being over 4klbs.

the whole camaro/terminator debate that was going up top aswell...yea ford had a answer but they half assed the answer to the ls1 cars with slapping a blower on the motor. Which is only about 60hp more then the base ls1, I believe they are rated for 325 or so. GM spanked ford since the 3rd gen firebird/camaro's. Face it, a coupe foxbody with a good driver will give any newer year mustang a run for its money, wont always win but damn you would think when they improve on the car they would do something for the motor to.

[2007STANG]

Way to deep the fight is really between us I still tell my brother his Chevy sucks and to buy a ford and he tells me Found On Road Dead" "This is a fact of life!!! "

[19Delta]

My brother and I do the same thing. He hates it that I now have a car to outrun him, and I just keep tellin' him to buy a ford and it won't happen.

[upton7]

is it wrong that i had ford and love chevy but love mustangs as well?

[sonicpony03]

I think motor trend and other auto media are all going to hype the camaro...its finally seeing light after 7 years. I think it will do fine, until GM kills it...because of marketing and financial situations. They have already discussed, not acted upon, but discussed cutting programs such as SS and CTS-V within the next 2 years.

I don't mind the camaro sticking around for a few years...as posted earlier, it will liven the ponycar war, which is needed. Cars like the 370z and G35s are creeping up our asses...and one more american muscle car on the road is way better than another import on the road.

[upton7]

^^^^ exactly i hate those stupid foreign cars with a passion

[sonicpony03]

Quote: Originally Posted by upton7 is it wrong that i had ford and love chevy but love mustangs as well?

If you mean hate, then hell yes. I love mustangs and the engineering behind the ford GT, but I could care less about their trucks and suvs. (lightning's an exception) I'd take a silverado over a f150.

I'd take the 09 CTS over a Ford Fusion/Merc Milan anyday.

The 3.6 DI from the CTS is the same engine in the camaro, just tweaked and geared differently...and its not a bad performance platform.

[sonicpony03]

Quote: Originally Posted by upton7 ^^^^ exactly i hate those stupid foreign cars with a passion

The closest thing to an import I'd drive, and its not an import is a dodge stealth TT. My friend has one that is running twin 19t turbos and a whole bunch of other shit done by IPS Motorsports in columbus. I rode in that car with upgraded garretts when he first got it and it was fast as hell.

However, you take the amount of money/time/effort and dump it into a cobra, now that's a whole different story...

[upton7]

the only one i'd buy is a 92' mitsubishi lancer evo gsr and thats just because it was the car i used in gran turismo 3 when i was younger