some random questions

[bloodyspirit058]

hey guys, just thought id ask some questions i keep hearing multiple answer for in hopes of learning just a little more.

1) will a 351 fit under the strut brace on a 94/95 gt? i don't know how much taller one is than a 302.

2) i could possible get a hold of a 351 moddified for cheap and/or free and was curious what kinda numbers i would see if i stroked it?

3)what exactly does stroking an engine mean (i'm very familiar with how engines work and why, but i haven't gotten my hands to dirty with them :'( )

4) is it hard to change a carbed engine to efi?

5) if i did swap to a 351, would i need a differn't ecu?


i'm sure i had some more, thats all i have for now i guess. Ill probably post some more questions up later

[upton7]

Stroker means the pistons go down further which allows for more cubic inches.

[Otlaw80]

351 modified or 351 windsor? The modified used to be called a 351m400 (modified 400) because it was an abortion of a marriage between a 351 and a 400. I wanna say 351 block, 400 heads, but can't remember for sure. They were prone to low power and problems, from what i've heard. You would be better off with a windsor, imo. Lots of power potential, and more aftermarket availability. As far as numbers i couldn't tell you. escpecially if you switch to efi. There is 351 efi motors out there to be had for cheap, but for some reason i can only think of some bronco's that had them. Maybe some lincolns??? I think you would need the upper/lower intakes, TB, fuel rails, injectors, harness and ECU to change from carb to efi. There may be kits you can buy, not sure.

They were a little bigger than a 302, so i'm not sure if they would fit under the hood of a 94/95. You would need motor mounts too. My info on the 351M is old and kind of rough so don't quote me on it, but it should be close.

[bloodyspirit058]

Quote: Originally Posted by upton7 Stroker means the pistons go down further which allows for more cubic inches.

i thought so, what all is involved with doing this? is it just the rods/pistons or is it the crankshaft ect.?

well my dad said it was a modified, its in an old 79 marque (sp?) so im not sure exactly, i wish he woulda saved the 351w outa his 79 f150, but he was rushed to scrap it (it was held together by dirt, he never washed it in fear of the rust not having something to hold onto)

ill probably just keep my eyes out for one, not sure if i wanna go the 351 route or just find a 4v 4.6, probably either one, it will just be what i find when i have money, lol

[upton7]

if its a kit you'll get forged piston rods and a crank then bearings and shit probably

[bbunt302]

Quote: Originally Posted by bloodyspirit058 hey guys, just thought id ask some questions i keep hearing multiple answer for in hopes of learning just a little more. 1) will a 351 fit under the strut brace on a 94/95 gt? i don't know how much taller one is than a 302. It's unlikely. You may also have to buy a cowl hood. Either that or get a special K-member to drop the engine a little bit. 2) i could possible get a hold of a 351 moddified for cheap and/or free and was curious what kinda numbers i would see if i stroked it? Don't waste your time on the 351Ms. You are better off with the 302. A 351 Windsor would be an entirely different story... 3)what exactly does stroking an engine mean (i'm very familiar with how engines work and why, but i haven't gotten my hands to dirty with them :'( ) Answered above. 4) is it hard to change a carbed engine to efi? Not if you already have a car with the EFI and you're staying within the same family of motors (i.e. 302 to 351 Windsor). 5) if i did swap to a 351, would i need a differn't ecu? No. But as with any other major engine mods, you will want to have the car tuned. i'm sure i had some more, thats all i have for now i guess. Ill probably post some more questions up later

[SaleenFiend]

Bloody as far as getting those spec, sorry I haven't yet. I'm looking now. I would recommend that if you have the time/extra cash a well built 351 will be a ton of fun. Lots of parts are cross compatible b/w 302/351. After the swap you could re-build your 302 that you already have and have a spare engine lying around.

[bloodyspirit058]

the thing is i don't have a ton of money, and i want some more power. I'm thinking a 351w in the end is going to be cheaper than a cobra 4.6, though probably not as modifiable to high numbers.

i was just kind of thinking on starting a project that if/when i had some spare cash it would go into the engine and eventually one day i would have a nice built engine ready to go.

i did some quick looking and found a steeda brace for the 94/95 for a 351, i however didn't find motor mounts, i don't really wanna replace the hood, but i guess i don't really have an option, it needed repainted ne way, so i guess the only price dif would be the price of the new hood.

one thing i really don't get is how efi differs from a carb. i know this sounds stupid, but read on a bit before telling me the obvious "duh". i've used both engines, the part i'm not familiar with is what all is different from an efi to carb besides the carb, fuel rail, injectors ect. are the heads and/or intakes different?

[bbunt302]

The intakes are different, but the heads are not.

[Otlaw80]

351 can give you just as much power i believe. Just a little different. Imo price would probably be cheaper than buying and building a 4.6

If you really wanna be unique find a 351C with the 4v heads (4v= 4 barrel, not 4 valve) BIG intake and exhaust ports and valves. But would have to be custom done. Don't think they made an EFI cleaveland

[Scut95]

Quote: one thing i really don't get is how efi differs from a carb. i know this sounds stupid, but read on a bit before telling me the obvious "duh". i've used both engines, the part i'm not familiar with is what all is different from an efi to carb besides the carb, fuel rail, injectors ect. are the heads and/or intakes different?

One thing you might have to watch out for is emissions laws. I don't know how they are in Oregon but I know it's illegal to swap a car that was fuel injected to carb. If you have a visual inspection and know someone that will pass it for you, you're good to go. Otherwise you could be screwed.

[bloodyspirit058]

as far as i know only emissions required are in some of the cities, like portland, and maybe salem or medford. so i'm pretty good to go as far as i know.

unique sounds powerful, but also expensive, as does the word custom so ill probably just start looking for one outa a bronco or somethin.

while using google to search swap stuff someone on another mustang forum said the 95 cobra came with a 351, was wondering if anyone could clairify that for me since i really don't know but i haven't seen info on the 95, only the 94 cobra which basicaly had dif heads and that was it.

is there any special automobile i should be looking for to take this from? i was thinking a lighting, but i think they were only pushing 240hp with it, not sure that number is correct or not, but i also figured that would be rare and if it was just like ne other 351 i would just find a more common one to save some cash.

edit:

ok... disregard the lighting info... ill look around some more, but i thought for sure an older lighting had a 351 with lower power, wasn't an 01 or 04 though...

edit (again):

well dunno how accurate it is, but it looks like the 93-95 lightning had it, but it also says at 240hp which is the same as the 94 cobra... so i'm not really seeing a benifit unless of course wikipedia is wrong cause they probably might be...

[Otlaw80]

The regular cobra had a 5.0 in 95. The Cobra R had a 5.8 (351). BUt buying anything with the word cobra included is usually gonna cost more than u wanna spend

[bloodyspirit058]

and i'm guessing even more if you throw an "r" after it, you wouldn't happen to have the specs of the cobra r would you? just curious

[Otlaw80]

1995 Ford SVT Mustang Cobra "R"

Engine/Drivetrain
Engine Displacement 5.8L 351cid
Compression Ratio 9.0:1
Horsepower 300 hp @ 4800 rpm
Torque 365 lbs-ft @ 3750 rpm

1995 Ford SVT Mustang Cobra Specifications

Engine/Drivetrain
Engine Displacement 5.0L 302ci
Compression Ratio 9.0:1
Horsepower 240 hp @ 4800 rpm
Torque 285 lbs-ft @ 4000 rpm

And I also found this. 351 Engine Swap - 5.0 Mustang & Super Fords Magazine BTW i'm blaming this idea on you when the wife yells at me for wanting to do this

EDIT: Also if your looking for engines, or parts for the swap to figure out a rough price. check out http://www.car-part.com/index.htm

[bloodyspirit058]

very nice info, already knew about car-part, but thank you

btw, i take full responsability for this idea, even though it was fords idea first...
if all else fails and you get get the engine and your wife says no you can send it my way, i'm sure my wife will say ok, she says she wants to help... (dunno if thats good or bad)

[bloodyspirit058]

well i found one with 118k on it for $450 which seems ok to me... i just don't have the 500 bucks but i was curious, are junk yards around your guys areas so assholeish? seems like every place i visit or call up (even ones on the other side of the u.s.) make it sound like they have to go way far outa their way to answer one question, like i'm interrupting them from such a busy busy day... you sell used parts off of cars, i don't think its going to be that hard. i know every job is harder than it looks, i've done a couple, but you can't be that busy with 3-6 people sitting all behind computers, not helping ne one in the office and not talking on phones...

ne way, sorry for the rant, but it looks like 351's around here are 400-800 with about 500 being the averageish (the guy only looked up one engine for me and didn't really answer ne other questions, i think i pissed him off by asking for a 351w... he went on a huge spiel (sp?) about how he couldn't look it up and i needed a type of auto it came in, sorry, next time ill just be psychic and just not have to bother you...)

[Otlaw80]

There are a few bone yards around me that have these type of people. Most of the time its because the people answering phones, and questions don't really know squat about cars. They just know how to look up a part based on the vehicle and then tell the 1 or maybe 2 yard guys, thats the part to take off. Luckily we had 2 yards around that were pull your own parts. But one of them closed. But i still go to the one when i need something. I pay $5 to get in the yard with my own truck and tools, find what i need and take it. Occasionally a part falls under the seat and i can't find it when i go to pay for the other stuff so its worth it. I just found a 351 out of a 96 bronco for $250, not sure what kind of shape though. But the average around me is the same, 500-600

[bloodyspirit058]

ya, i think i'm going to take a visit to the "u pull it" up in portland, only problem is i don't have my ranger anymore so i can't really be hauling an engine :'(

maybe ill win the lottery soon that way i can afford some things...lol

[modular2valve]

the 1st gen lightning has the 351 with gt-40 heads and intake. the 95 cobra r isn't too hard to replicate and u can buy rotating assemblies for those motors ALOt cheaper than the modular counterparts. i always wanted to have a 408 fuel injected sn-95.

[bloodyspirit058]

what exactly is a rotating assembly?

if/when i do this i'm deffintly stroking it, no reason to go through all that work when ill probably just wanna go back later and do it.

edit: congrats on ur 1k post count modular2valve

[modular2valve]

lol thanks bloody spirit. the rotating assembly is basically a kit that consists of the pistons rods and crank. it also includes bearings, rings, etc. all u have to do is strip it down to the bare block, send it off to have machined, and install the rotating assembly. u can also but the shortblock, which is the block with the rotating assembly already installed.

[bloodyspirit058]

cool, thanks for the info, i might look into a shortblock than... just curious, what are the most common stroked versions of the 351?

would this be something to get me started inthe right direction? i'm probably not looking at this kit specificly (specially since ill have a ton of time to do more research and poking around) but something along the same lines maybe?

Eagle Specialty Products B14127040 - Eagle Competition Rotating Assemblies

its kinda rediculas the amount of parts available for a 302 and/or 351...kind of overwelling and difficult for a first time...

[bloodyspirit058]

another question... whats a good compression ratio to go with? i found a site where it asks you and above the ratios is a cc number (ex. 58cc-12.9 64cc-12.0 70cc-11.0)
i was curious what this was measuring and why the cc's went up when compression went down.

[bloodyspirit058]

don't know if anyone is still reading this, but i have another question...

when finding an engine, if i found one say with 100k on it, should it be re-bored or is this just prefference? or is it just used to get that extra little bit otua the block?

also, what is the differnece between "H" and "I" beams? some rod sets are listed as h beams while others are an i... i'm guessing how its turned when connecting to the crankshaft and piston, like one is 90* compared to the other... would one be better than the other? it seemed like the H's were a little more spendy...

[Otlaw80]

H's will probably be a little stronger, hence the bigger price. As far as boring it out, its hard to say without taking the engine apart and looking at the piston walls. If there is just a little lip at the top(normal) then you can get away with just honing it. But if there is scratches/grooves down the length of the wall, then boring it out is a must. Or if you want just those few more cubic in. The shop that you take it to for the machining will be able to give you a good answer(hopefully honestly). Piston rings come in certain sizes, usually in incriment of .010. IE, .010, .020,.030 some even up to .050 depending on the engine. Just remember the more you bore the weaker the block becomes. If your gonna go with a power adder i'd say no more compression than 8.5:1 to 9:1, if your not, then you can prob get up to 10:1 with flat top or domed pistons.

[modular2valve]

most common stroker out of the 351 is the 408, its a tried and proven motor that lays down serious numbers. also check out chp engines and dss.

[bloodyspirit058]

cool, thanks for the info, i couldn't really find much on chp, i think there is a ton of stuff with the initials chp... i did find the dss site helpful, looks a tiny bit expensive and they only had 410 and 427 kits... i'm still trying to figure out the cc stuff since i don't know where i would be starting or ending up.

i also asked a buddy about the 12.9 compression set found here: Scat Ford Stroker Kits 351W to 418 from RPM Machines.

i didn't show him the actual site, but he said that the compression was a tad high and probably meant for race fuel, so i was wondering what would be a good compression for mid grade/premium fuel?

on that page it shows 2 different sets with different types of pistons, i'm curious how you get the same compression ratio with different cc's... i think i'm missing a key concept in this equation.

[modular2valve]

i have a vid of a sn95 with a 418...

[modular2valve]

im sure i have more sites for you to check out, i will get to my home computer and look em up. my dad and i are planning a 408 install in his 90 hatchback and after checking them out almost makes me go to the pushrod side lol.

[bloodyspirit058]

i would really love the 5.4 4v... but that is very expensive... i just wish i had some money to get this project started... i found a van that has a 351 in it for 100 bucks... but i don't even have that, i thought someone on here had one up for grabs a while ago, but i can't find that post now, i was looking for it last night. i know i wouldn't have any money for the parts to go into it, but have a stripped block is a lot better start than nothing at all...

did you happen to click on that link for the scat setups from rpm machine? just from the little bit of looking around i've done id say its not a bad price for the parts but again i don't know what exactly i need to be looking for.

still need to figure out the cc thing, cause i noticed you can get both the flat top and dish pistons in the same compression ratio, but one has 70cc where the other has 58cc... i'm assuming you want as much cc's as you can with the compression ratio you want... i'm also assuming you look for your compression ratio based on the fuel you want to be using...

you wouldn't mind sending me that vid would you? ill probably go search for some now... thanks alot for the time killing idea...