Possible upgrade to an LS1

Monkey · 07-13-2005, 10:16 PM


Quote: Originally Posted by 97Stallion You're still kind of comparing apples and oranges here. I agree an LS1 would beat a 4V Cobra, but the 4V cobra is only a 281ci engine. The LS1 is a 350ci engine. That's a HUGE difference. You're talking about 70ci. If you wanna turn the tables they you could compare a 428 cobra jet to an LS1. The bigger engine is usually always going to make more horsepower. And Ford, Chevy, Dodge tunes down the engine horsepower. Ford tuned the 03's down to pave the way for the new shelby. If the new shelby has less hp that older cobras, then it wouldn't be a big deal. Plus there aren't maybe mass produced cars that come stock with close to or over 400hp from the factory that are reasonably priced. I can only think of two at the moment. The Cobra and the Vette. But the point is there really isn't a horsepower war anymore like there used to be. GM decided to call it quits for the most part and dropped the line of the Camero and the Firebird, and now only the Mustang is around. The only real way IMO is to compare two engine of basically the same size. You could do the 351W to the 350, then I would call it even or the 305 to the 302.

well, the 428 isn't made anymore. The 281 and the 350 were rivals when put in the Fbodies and the stangs. Therefore, you have to compare them as apples and apples. I am not just talking about overall horsepower though. The modular engine was new not too long ago and has finally been proven, but then they changed the engine to the 3V engine. The LT1 was created and then the LS1 fixed the problems the LT1 had. from 98-02? the engines were rivals. (not counting 97 cause they were only in vettes that year).

I just think the LS1 engine has more potential than a N/A 4V Ford 4.6. Put heads and a cam in the 4.6 and get about 30-40whp. Put them in the LS1 and get 60whp. With the exception of the 03+ cobra engine, the modular engines were "fairly" weak when compared to the stronger LS1 engines.

I know what you're saying about apples to oranges, but when they are rivals, they have to be compared as the same. I still think the 5.7 is a better engine than the 4.6. (but I know we can all agree that GMs automatic transmissions are def. better than ford's)

Kyle · 07-13-2005, 10:17 PM


Quote: Originally Posted by MarkuzLS1 All the 4V/Cobra/everything else comparisons are pointless. The discussion isn't about whether he should get a Cobra or a Mach or a Fox or a TA, it's between the '04 V6 and the '99 TA. I know which one I'd pick.

i think i'd pick the t/a too, but not for $350/mo plus rent as i am looking to move into one soon (goin look at one tommorrow)

97Stallion · 07-13-2005, 10:33 PM


Quote: Originally Posted by Monkey I know what you're saying about apples to oranges, but when they are rivals, they have to be compared as the same. I still think the 5.7 is a better engine than the 4.6. (but I know we can all agree that GMs automatic transmissions are def. better than ford's)

Well I agree partially, but I'm bias toward Fords. The 350 is a very old engine and has been around for years and many more to come. GM has placed lots of R&D into this engine over the course of 30+ years. Ford has really only placed about ~10 years of R&D into the 281. As time goes by and R&D continues, we are seeing smaller engines becoming more powerful and reliable. It wasn't too long ago when the notrious 5.0 was around was only making 215bhp, now were have 4.0 making about the some amount of horsepower and it's a whole liter short. I'm by no means trying to say the 350 is a bad block. If fact it's very sturdy and powerful block, and even though it was a rival of the 281 back in the day, it's still has lots more R&D put into it. It's like a old man racing a little kid.

Ponycarman · 07-13-2005, 10:56 PM

OMFG

The LS1 isn't the 350 of yore. It's a new design that shares exactly two parts with the previous generation 350, in fact the LS1 isn't a 350 CI engine, it's like 347. The LS1 is also a newer design than the Modular motor which has been out for more than 10 years anyway, came out in Lincolns a long time ago.

You can compare the Ford 4.6 in any incarnation against the LS1 in similar trim (NA to NA or blown to blown) and the LS1 is a better choice, period. The 4.6 in it's most tweaked out factory form is about as powerful as the LS1 in moderate tune. IOW the LS1 has way more potential in it and will whip a 4.6 in similar levels of upgrades.

I love arguments based on lack of facts, makes it about as relevant as two whores arguing which is more virtuous.

tedness · 07-13-2005, 11:01 PM


Quote: Originally Posted by MarkuzLS1 All the 4V/Cobra/everything else comparisons are pointless. The discussion isn't about whether he should get a Cobra or a Mach or a Fox or a TA, it's between the '04 V6 and the '99 TA. I know which one I'd pick.

you're biased

Bane- · 07-13-2005, 11:19 PM

id pick the ls1 over any 4.6, maybe im biased since I dont like the 4.6s unless in dohc form. but then again stock for stock,dollar for dollar,mod for mod,driver for driver the ls1 still eats them. you just not going to get the power out of a 281 as you can a 350. the 350 and 281 werent always compared to each other, used to have to compare the 302 to the 350 and it was actually a pretty close race between the two, the 83?-whatever year fbodies sucked compared to the 5.0.


Quote: It's like a old man racing a little kid.

and the old man usually wins since hes smarter and better prepared,etc

stallion the 5.0 was rated at 225 in 87-91? so ha

and the new v6's still dont have near the torque of the 5.0, the beloved 4.6 in 96-98 didnt even more hp/tq then the 5.0s.

4.6 is a big block (size wise not like 351c/390/427,8 or 9) with honda pistons. I mean if they make a motor the SIZE of a 460 wouldnt you think the displacement would of been a little bit bigger then 281? gimme a break...

Monkey · 07-13-2005, 11:19 PM


Quote: Originally Posted by Ponycarman OMFG The LS1 isn't the 350 of yore. It's a new design that shares exactly two parts with the previous generation 350, in fact the LS1 isn't a 350 CI engine, it's like 347. I love arguments based on lack of facts, makes it about as relevant as two whores arguing which is more virtuous.

it's actually a 346ci to get technical. I am just rounding it to 350 for eases sake.

And I do have a little bit of facts. I am not a pure engine god, but I do know that I like the LS1 more than any of the modular ford engines. And all your points about n/a vs. n/a reiterated my points from previous posts.

oh, and I claim the the title of "less virtuous whore"

97Stallion · 07-14-2005, 12:01 AM


Quote: Originally Posted by Ponycarman OMFG The LS1 isn't the 350 of yore. It's a new design that shares exactly two parts with the previous generation 350, in fact the LS1 isn't a 350 CI engine, it's like 347. The LS1 is also a newer design than the Modular motor which has been out for more than 10 years anyway, came out in Lincolns a long time ago. You can compare the Ford 4.6 in any incarnation against the LS1 in similar trim (NA to NA or blown to blown) and the LS1 is a better choice, period. The 4.6 in it's most tweaked out factory form is about as powerful as the LS1 in moderate tune. IOW the LS1 has way more potential in it and will whip a 4.6 in similar levels of upgrades. I love arguments based on lack of facts, makes it about as relevant as two whores arguing which is more virtuous.

You're not understanding our/my points. I understand that the LS1 "is not the 350 of yore" but it's the same platform meaing it's still a pushrod engine. It's like making a sculpture. You start with a piece of clay and make something and then you edit it and realize, if we remove this and add this or change this it'll work better.

Tbird232ci · 07-14-2005, 12:25 AM

pushrod, yes, but more efficient

no matter what people say, there is a counter to what they say

"the LS1 is a 350, and the 4.6 is a 281"
"well your 4.6L has 4 cams, my LS1 has one cam"

"your mom is funny looking"
"yours smells bad"

put a timing chain on a DOHC 4.6L, and get back to me

Ponycarman · 07-14-2005, 08:14 AM


Quote: Originally Posted by 97Stallion You're not understanding our/my points. I understand that the LS1 "is not the 350 of yore" but it's the same platform meaing it's still a pushrod engine. It's like making a sculpture. You start with a piece of clay and make something and then you edit it and realize, if we remove this and add this or change this it'll work better.

OHC engines have been around since before you, your Daddy or his Daddy were around. Just as long as pushrod motors have been,

Ever hear of the Ford Cammer? Big old monster motor of the 60s' with overhead cams, just like the 4.6, so what's Fords problem, 40 years of OHC experience and they can't beat the LS1?

Oh wait, DIFFERENT motor, no comparison at all. Pushrod motor or OHC motor, don't matter both have been around for 100 years plus.

BTW, the parts that make power have nothing to do with where the cam is located, so that has nothing to do with the differences.

In fact an OHC motor should be more powerful because OHC motors don't have the pushrods in the way of the ports which should allow for better port design. But Ford had one of those (not a) better ideas with the 4.6.

In fact I remember when Ford annouced the demise of the 5.0 and the arrival of the 4.6 for the Mustang. Guys were pissed and all the buttkissing magazines made the same claims you are trying to make and guess what, they are wrong about them too. Appears the only way Ford can get big HP numbers is to blow it. The 4.6 was a lump in whatever fullsized car it was in before the Mustang and it's a slightly faster lump today. It's only when boost is added that it gets fast.

Steve

Who is neither a GM nor a Ford guy.

Ponycarman · 07-14-2005, 08:17 AM


Quote: Originally Posted by Monkey it's actually a 346ci to get technical. I am just rounding it to 350 for eases sake.

That's fine, but some are apparently confused as to it's relationship to older "350's". Of course GM was especially stupid there. Buick, Olds, Pontiac and Chevy all had 350s at one time or another and they were all completely different and nothing interchanged.

Real stupid there one of GM's better ideas.

sonic04edge · 07-14-2005, 01:41 PM


Quote: Originally Posted by 04stang yeah i'm gonna say that too. i was just surfing for quotes (maybe i should have before i asked) but it was just to get an idea if it was a good idea. so anyway, i was doin some searching and check this shit out........the CHEAPEST quote is like $350/mo for a t/a. this is the recommended quote, its the "middle grade" quote, if you will. so given this its either have an apt and an 04 mustang, or live at home and have a 99 t/a..............i think i am gonna choose the apt/stang

Holy shit you must have a bad driving record. 350 a month is insane for a 99 even a t/a. At most I could see 1300 every 6mo for a 99 and thats with a bad record. You aren't looking in the right places lol. Check out allstate and and state farm. I could have my truck and a mid 90's gt for about 1200 every 6 months.

Tbird232ci · 07-14-2005, 01:59 PM

i pay 220 a month, liability, on a 1987 with a clean driving record

keep in mind, age, location, and things of that nature make a large impact

**PureVenom** · 07-14-2005, 03:15 PM

Y'all don't live in louisiana. Our insurance here is the most expensive in the country. Mine is currently $1400 every 6 months for the cobra and the explorer. That p[rice is a NY policy which I Can get away with for now because i still have a house in NY. I have a clean record and am over 25. To get a louisiana policy, with the same coverages, my price will go up to $3400 every 6 months.

Welcome to the place where you fail inspections for bent bumbers, pay tax on food and medicine, and get bent over when in comes to insurance.

WhiteStang99 · 07-14-2005, 04:14 PM

^ We pay on food and medicine I think. Fuck, our city had a city council meeting (an "emergency" one, so nobody knew about it) on 9-12-01 to raise taxes, and they had been trying for 6 months but couldn't pass it due to protests. Needless to say, people had more important things on their mind on 9-12-01 and were unable to stop that.