New Boss Engine

[JROC]

Ya'll might not have heard of the new Boss engine that Ford is apparently going to build, but you have probably heard of the Hurricane engine, and thats basically all this is. The name was changed from Hurricane to Boss after Hurricane Katrina hit in 2005. Apparently it will be a DOHC 5.0L engine with VTACH (HAHA J/k), Variable Valve Timing, and there will be different versions producing between 340, and 500HP, and be used in Mustangs, F-Series trucks, Expeditions, and Navigators. It should be ready for use in 2009 in a new Boss Mustang, just in time to compete with the new Camaro, and Challenger.

Ford revives Boss engine - 10/31/06 - The Detroit News Online

[bbunt302]

Whoa whoa whoa... hold up. Just a minute.

Quote: Originally Posted by teh article Other than the name and the number of cylinders, there will not be a lot of similarity between the Boss 302 crate engine and the production version. While the iron-block crate engine uses old-fashioned push-rod technology, Hall said the production version will be an overhead-cam engine. It is also likely to have variable valve timing to boost fuel economy.

So is this "Boss" crate engine just a good ol' fashioned pushrod 5.0L? It sure sounds like what they are saying. Doesn't make much sense though... why would they be calling it a new engine? Unless they have designed an all-new 5.0L pushrod engine. Which would be kinda cool, but kinda stupid at the same time.

I still to this day do not see why Ford stopped using pushrods and went with OHC to begin with. But, I guess that's a whole other story.

So does anyone know exactly what the hell they are trying to say here?

[bbunt302]

Holy shit....

Nevermind. I figured it out. And I'm a happy motherfucker. I know what motor is going in my coupe now... MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

It really is a "Boss" 302. 4 bolt mains. Screw in freeze plugs. Heat treated cast iron block. Siamese bores. Stronger than a R302, but 20 lbs less. Cross drilled for better cooling. Can be bored and stroked up to 363 cubic inches.

This is the best thing Ford has done since 1987.

EDIT: Some pics of the badness.

[Brent]

The Article says its a DOHC? The one you posted is a Pushrod

[bbunt302]

Read the part I quoted again. The production "Boss" is gonna be OHC. The Ford Racing crate "Boss" is going to be the new pushrod short block. The full crate engines are going to use a lot of the old 5.0L parts (Y and Z heads, etc). But the block is a brand new, 4 bolt main, 5.0L block.

[lowflyn]

A new 302 block, how awesome is that. I might actually be interested in a stronger block like that in lieu of other plans...

[JROC]

Quote: Originally Posted by bbunt302 Whoa whoa whoa... hold up. Just a minute. So is this "Boss" crate engine just a good ol' fashioned pushrod 5.0L? It sure sounds like what they are saying. Doesn't make much sense though... why would they be calling it a new engine? Unless they have designed an all-new 5.0L pushrod engine. Which would be kinda cool, but kinda stupid at the same time. I still to this day do not see why Ford stopped using pushrods and went with OHC to begin with. But, I guess that's a whole other story. So does anyone know exactly what the hell they are trying to say here?

I thought it was poorly worded to, and couldn't figure out how an original Boss 302 was simular to a DOHC engine. And yes the new FR Boss 302 block is awesome.

[MonteCitan]

so ... the 5.0 production version is gonna have a ghetto-rigged OHC system like the 4.0s then? cam chains/drives added as an afterthought?

that sounds like trouble..

[JROC]

Quote: Originally Posted by MonteCitan so ... the 5.0 production version is gonna have a ghetto-rigged OHC system like the 4.0s then? cam chains/drives added as an afterthought? that sounds like trouble..

I believe their 2 different blocks, and you won't be able to interchange parts. The new Boss block that Ford has release is pretty much an original Boss block that has a few updates, and is being built, and sold by Ford Racing. The new Boss engine is a totally new engine that Ford is building to keep up with Chevy, and Dodge, and is not related to the older 302's, they just have the same displacement. I had read that Ford was going to make a 6.2L Hurricane/Boss engine, but I don't now.

[bbunt302]

Quote: Originally Posted by JROC I believe their 2 different blocks, and you won't be able to interchange parts. The new Boss block that Ford has release is pretty much a original Boss block that has a few updates and it's being built, and sold by Ford Racing. The new Boss engine is a totally new engine that Ford is building to keep up with Chevy, and Dodge, and is not related to the older 302's they just have the same displacement. I had read that Ford was going to make a 6.2 Hurricane/Boss engine, but I don't now.

From what I've read, you're right. The crate motors are entirely separate entity from what will be in the production Mustangs. Although it would be really cool if they had a 2009 Boss with a pushrod 5.0L in it... I'd buy one.

But I believe the plan is to have a new OHC engine that is capable of being bored/stroked up to a 6.2 for production vehicles.

[JROC]

Quote: Originally Posted by bbunt302 Although it would be really cool if they had a 2009 Boss with a pushrod 5.0L in it... I'd buy one.

x2.

I agree 100%.

[JROC]

I'm concused. In the article that I originally posted states that the engine is going to be a 5 liters engine, but Wikipedia say its going to be a 6.2 and maybe eventually a 7 liter engine in future applications. I'm guessing the original artilce I posted is right since it was released today.

Wikipedia also states that the new Boss blocks that they just released is to hype up the new Boss engines, but that they will have nothing in common.

Ford Boss 302 engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ford Boss engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[rocknbronco]

thats gonna be one nice engine either way cant wait to see one and work on tuneing one as well

[Thomas91169]

i doubt it.

somehow this whole thread has "in our dreams" written all over it.

[rocknbronco]

Ford seems to have a high number of let downs

[Brent]

Well they can't let us down with the crate engine because it's already a go

[JROC]

Ford better make a engine to compete with Chevy, and Dodge, because lets be honest, Mod motors don't have nothing on LS, and Hemi motors. Even the Supercharged motors don't have much of an an advantage on LS motors.

[SpectorV]

whats really sad is if ford would have just updated the 5.0L and kept using it... they would have faster more powerful and more reliable (and more popular) mustangs... who doesnt love a 302....

[JROC]

Quote: Originally Posted by SpectorV whats really sad is if ford would have just updated the 5.0L and kept using it... they would have faster more powerful and more reliable (and more popular) mustangs... who doesnt love a 302....

Agreed with one exception. I would have liked them to step up to 351 Windsor instead.

[Thomas91169]

werd. they need to mass produce the 5.4 and phase out the 4.6. they then need to add a 6.0l modular into the works.

[JROC]

Quote: Originally Posted by Thomas91169 werd. they need to mass produce the 5.4 and phase out the 4.6. they then need to add a 6.0l modular into the works.

I'm hoping the new Boss motors will be a step above the Mod motors. Kind of like the LS motors were to the LT motors for Chevy. But again thats just me hoping.

[Thomas91169]

going back to pushrod isnt a step ahead. staying pushrod wouldve been awesome, but since they retooled everything to go to modular, its time to step up the modulars. going back to pushrod, they would have to re-learn the wheel.

besides, we know we can make as much if not more power on streetable setups compared to our pushrod brethren. ford just needs to stop worrying about being so "Green", nobody gives a shit about emissions. they can make a 400hp on a 5.4 4v setup (as seen in the australian FPV vehicles), but they price it out of reach because its a non-common engine combo compared to the 4.6. if it became the standard it would be cheaper, and the 6.0 would become the equavilent to a 5.4.

[n8r]

Ima put one in my Jeep!

[gasman66]

I saw it at SEMA yesterday . its just a 5.0 crate pushrod engine , same as for the last several decades . does have some cool cleveland look valve covers though .

[rmays06]

I am happy!!! I am so happy!!! I think it is very cool and I can't wait to see how it comes out.

[rocknbronco]

Quote: Originally Posted by n8r Ima put one in my Jeep!

Hmm a Ford powered Jeep havent seem them in a while it would look much better than the 350 swap

[DarkShadow]

They will place this engine into the new specialty stang "Boss" for a year, maybe two.

Then when say, 2014 comes along, they will place this block as standard, and make the next step up either the 5.4 again, or MAYBE this fabled 6.0/6.2 possibility...

[rocknbronco]

302 Boss's never make it past two years in production

[bbunt302]

I don't think this block will be used in a production vehicle anytime soon, as in ever. It's unfortunate too. So much better than the mod motors...

They could easily make 300+ rwhp N/A 5.0s from the factory, with more bottom end torque than you can shake a stick at. Instead we get stuck with 300 bhp 4.6s that feel like four bangers until you hit 2500 RPM.

Not to mention that this block, with good internals should probably be good for 700+ rwhp. If not more. A stock 5.0 will take around 500.

[JROC]

This car looks Simply Spectacular IMO.

By the way, is that a Push Rod engine I see. It sure looks like it to me. But I'm not totally sure. Look at the Valve Covers, and the distributor cap.

[rocknbronco]

I think it we will all be happy with the new 302 the only thing I dont like about the 302 or 351 is they have a habbit of jumping time every once in a while.I do like the push rod engines but technolicaly it will be a step backwards as I love over head cam engines.

[68fastback]

.

That's the Galpin Auto Sports 2007 Boss 302 shown at SEMA, not an actual FORD offering. It's a very nice retro-mod on the S197. It uses the new (pushrod) Boss 302 (390HP variation -- they're available up to the 331cid 500HP crate). It's was very nicely done -- right down to the shaker hood and a new-old-stock 4V Holley carb from from 1970 Boss (on the show unit which derates it to 360HP, I believe).

--------

I'd just like to mention that I do not think Ford has any plans to produce this Boss series in any production vehicle -- ever.

The Boss motor that I believe is coming is a SOHC 2-valve (initially) and then DOHC 4-valve. I noticed a couple of posts suggesting the existing modulars should be pushed to 6.0L. That is just not physically possible. The modulars are bore-spacing constrained and the 5.4, which is highly stroked, is the end of the like for modular displacement,.

The new (coming, we believe in 2008 F-series) Boss will likely have significantly larger bore spacing to permit somewhere in the vicinity of 110mm bores (modular is effectively limited to approx 95mm). So the new Boss PRODUCTION motor in '08 (maybe in the refreshed stang as a Boss in '09?) would be capable of anywhere from 5.8 to 7.0L and still be oversquare (i.e. bore larger than stroke and high-revving and, therefore, could go larger with more stroke if necessary) and will most likely debut in the trucks at 6.2L.

From what I've heard this motor will likely be technologically similar to the 3.5L V6 (variable valve/cam timing, provisioned for direct combustion injection, very compact for its CID, high-pressure cast,etc) though not sharing any architectural dimensions or major components with the 3.5 V6. In short, it's believed to be an allnew state-of-the-art engine series with larger bore spacing, the latest technologies and amazing potential.

I saw one post mention something to the effect that Ford should forget about emissions and do the Boss crate as a production motor. That most definately will NOT happen.

The overwhelming beauty of a multi-valve, OHC, oversquare, VVT, DCI motor is that a 6.2L engine of that genre should meet PZEV (Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle) certification, be high-revving, make in excess of 500HP (NA) have broad torque AND be super smooth/tractable all at the same time! All that hat simply cannot be done with 2-valves and the high reciprocating mass of pushrods. That is why GM will also eventually move away from pushrods. The LSx, while a highly evolved motor, cannot match ALL of the above characteristics and PZEV emissions -- not now, not ever. And the DCX hemi is a rather dirty design cleaned up somewhat with dual-plugs and electronics to meet reasonable emissions because it is essentially a technological dinosaur (and isn't even a hemi, in fact).

Emissions are key, and all indications are the coming new production Boss (completely unrelated to the Boss crate motors) will be Ford's new top of the line engine series and the new technology standard for Ford. Likely first shipped in the '08 F-series, we can only hope it will see a killer incarnation in a Boss Mustang on the refreshed base in '09.

Round two of the muscle car wars are about to begin. Can't wait!

.

[JROC]

Quote: Originally Posted by 68fastback . That's the Galpin Auto Sports 2007 Boss 302 shown at SEMA, not an actual FORD offering. It's a very nice retro-mod on the S197. It uses the new (pushrod) Boss 302 (390HP variation -- they're available up to the 331cid 500HP crate). It's was very nicely done -- right down to the shaker hood and a new-old-stock 4V Holley carb from from 1970 Boss (on the show unit which derates it to 360HP, I believe). -------- I'd just like to mention that I do not think Ford has any plans to produce this Boss series in any production vehicle -- ever. The Boss motor that I believe is coming is a SOHC 2-valve (initially) and then DOHC 4-valve. I noticed a couple of posts suggesting the existing modulars should be pushed to 6.0L. That is just not physically possible. The modulars are bore-spacing constrained and the 5.4, which is highly stroked, is the end of the like for modular displacement,. The new (coming, we believe in 2008 F-series) Boss will likely have significantly larger bore spacing to permit somewhere in the vicinity of 110mm bores (modular is effectively limited to approx 95mm). So the new Boss PRODUCTION motor in '08 (maybe in the refreshed stang as a Boss in '09?) would be capable of anywhere from 5.8 to 7.0L and still be oversquare (i.e. bore larger than stroke and high-revving and, therefore, could go larger with more stroke if necessary) and will most likely debut in the trucks at 6.2L. From what I've heard this motor will likely be technologically similar to the 3.5L V6 (variable valve/cam timing, provisioned for direct combustion injection, very compact for its CID, high-pressure cast,etc) though not sharing any architectural dimensions or major components with the 3.5 V6. In short, it's believed to be an allnew state-of-the-art engine series with larger bore spacing, the latest technologies and amazing potential. I saw one post mention something to the effect that Ford should forget about emissions and do the Boss crate as a production motor. That most definately will NOT happen. The overwhelming beauty of a multi-valve, OHC, oversquare, VVT, DCI motor is that a 6.2L engine of that genre should meet PZEV (Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle) certification, be high-revving, make in excess of 500HP (NA) have broad torque AND be super smooth/tractable all at the same time! All that hat simply cannot be done with 2-valves and the high reciprocating mass of pushrods. That is why GM will also eventually move away from pushrods. The LSx, while a highly evolved motor, cannot match ALL of the above characteristics and PZEV emissions -- not now, not ever. And the DCX hemi is a rather dirty design cleaned up somewhat with dual-plugs and electronics to meet reasonable emissions because it is essentially a technological dinosaur (and isn't even a hemi, in fact). Emissions are key, and all indications are the coming new production Boss (completely unrelated to the Boss crate motors) will be Ford's new top of the line engine series and the new technology standard for Ford. Likely first shipped in the '08 F-series, we can only hope it will see a killer incarnation in a Boss Mustang on the refreshed base in '09. Round two of the muscle car wars are about to begin. Can't wait! .

Welcome to Mustang Evolution.

Very nice post. I just hope that the new Boss motor will take to n/a mods as well as LS motors.

[68fastback]

Quote: Originally Posted by JROC Welcome to Mustang Evolution. Very nice post. I just hope that the new Boss motor will take to n/a mods as well as LS motors.

Thanks, JROC

Yeah, hope so too -- just more cams to swap out ;-)

I think ford learned a lot from the mods -- a nice deep-skirt oversquare NA motor will be fun. I'm an old-timer so I never thought I'd come around to the electronics and 4-valve. The I bought a '01 Cobra and though it's only 320HP, I fell in love with the elastic power curve (and the '01 is a puppy compared to what some are doing with the mod ;-)

Have fun!

.

[rocknbronco]

thats gonna be great for Ford sales