Having second thoughts on Long Tubes

[USMCSS]

I haven't gotten my x-pipes or headers done yet and I'm having second thoughts on doing the long tubes. My car is a supercharged Saleen and is already lowered with the Racecraft suspension. It already scrapes every speed bump and I know that'll be even worse with long tube headers on there. I am doing the off road x-pipes but I was wondering just how much HP gain I'd really get with doing the long tubes as well. Are they really worth the money or should I look at investing that money into something that would get me better gains??? Bigger bang for the buck, etc...

[Herbstang]

I'd say about 15 to 20 Want more gains get the S/C ported Stiegemeier Supercharger Porting and Repair Service

[USMCSS]

15 to 20 HP just from LT headers alone? I really didn't think they gave that much extra HP. BTW, taking my S/C off and sending it to Missouri is not an option...

[Herbstang]

Got that # from doing a little research here's what header did for a GT and you got a S/C maybe look at some shorties http://www.jbaheaders.com/images/dyno/05mustangdyno.jpg

[PureVenom]

Assuming this is a positive displacement saleen SC...gains will be in the 5-10 hp range since a PD blower can only push X amount of air whether their are headers or not.

The most you will gain from headers is a slightly cooler charge temp (this is where the HP gain comes from), slightly lower PSI of boost, and the ability to bump the timing a little to pick up some more HP.

You will probably scrape more with the long tubes as well. My long tubes go in next week some time...I am not lowered, and I have a feeling I will be scraping based on some other cars I have seen.

And, Steig won't gain you much with the saleen SC (or whipple/KB for future reference). It is already pretty efficient and porting may lower your power just like KB says about porting theirs.

[Herbstang]

The Master has spoken

[USMCSS]

Quote: Originally Posted by PureVenom Assuming this is a positive displacement saleen SC...gains will be in the 5-10 hp range since a PD blower can only push X amount of air whether their are headers or not. The most you will gain from headers is a slightly cooler charge temp (this is where the HP gain comes from), slightly lower PSI of boost, and the ability to bump the timing a little to pick up some more HP. You will probably scrape more with the long tubes as well. My long tubes go in next week some time...I am not lowered, and I have a feeling I will be scraping based on some other cars I have seen. And, Steig won't gain you much with the saleen SC (or whipple/KB for future reference). It is already pretty efficient and porting may lower your power just like KB says about porting theirs.

So you are more or less saying that it's really not worth the money and I really am risking having a car that scrapes BAD? What is something else that would be more worth my doe to add on? I'm already having a new chip put in, having it dyno'd and changing to a 4:10 rear end

[PureVenom]

I was expected to see 40ish hp from long tubes as well...then I read an awesome article that explained why that isn't the case. Great read: Effectiveness of Engine VE Changes with a Positive-Displacement Supercharger - ModularFords.com

[PureVenom]

Quote: Originally Posted by USMCSS So you are more or less saying that it's really not worth the money an I really am risking having a car that scrapes BAD? What is something else that would be more worth my doe to add on?

Long tubes let you turn the boost up a little more and/or run a little more timing and still remain on pump gas. You can max out a setup, then add long tubes and gain more room for more boost and timing without buying stock in Torco.

If you are already scraping with your suspension, it may just mean you will scrape in a few more parking lots.

If you don't already have one, get a custom dyno tune. A 2006 Saleen S-281E came to the shop and only put down 468 at the wheels. The shop car, with the same boost levels...same SC...puts down 520. Granted, the shop car has long tubes and o/r x where as the saleen has stock manifolds and h pipe. The major difference is that the shop car is running ~21* of timing, the saleen is running 14*. The long tubes allowed for the timing to be bumped up much higher = more hp.

So, if you ask me...get the long tubes. You will just need to be careful as you probably already are. Then, once they are installed, get on a dyno and get a custom tune. I will see where you are located once I post this...if it is in one of a couple states, I can give you a definite "go to" list of tuners for this.

[USMCSS]

Quote: Originally Posted by PureVenom Long tubes let you turn the boost up a little more and/or run a little more timing and still remain on pump gas. You can max out a setup, then add long tubes and gain more room for more boost and timing without buying stock in Torco. If you are already scraping with your suspension, it may just mean you will scrape in a few more parking lots. If you don't already have one, get a custom dyno tune. A 2006 Saleen S-281E came to the shop and only put down 468 at the wheels. The shop car, with the same boost levels...same SC...puts down 520. Granted, the shop car has long tubes and o/r x where as the saleen has stock manifolds and h pipe. The major difference is that the shop car is running ~21* of timing, the saleen is running 14*. The long tubes allowed for the timing to be bumped up much higher = more hp. So, if you ask me...get the long tubes. You will just need to be careful as you probably already are. Then, once they are installed, get on a dyno and get a custom tune. I will see where you are located once I post this...if it is in one of a couple states, I can give you a definite "go to" list of tuners for this.

Now I'm really baffled and undecided. Ya it scrapes but I am already VERY careful when it comes to parking lots. I already have a guy near by that is supposed to be the best around for Dyno. Jeff Harris owner of ProSpeed Performance in Powder Springs, GA. He quoted me $499 for chip plus Dyno. That's for an s/c car

[PureVenom]

Quote: Originally Posted by USMCSS Now I'm really baffled and undecided. Ya it scrapes but I am already VERY careful when it comes to parking lots. I already have a guy near by that is supposed to be the best around for Dyno. Jeff Harris owner of ProSpeed Performance in Powder Springs, GA. He quoted me $499 for chip plus Dyno. That's for an s/c car

That is about right. Here it is $399 for the tuner and then $150 an hour for dyno tuning....unless you bring your own tuner then it is $425 an hour for tuning.

Honestly, IMO, get the long tubes...and get the tune. I would say get a tuner though and not a chip, but I couldn't tell you why one is better than the other really. I just like the idea of being able to datalog with the SCT tuner anytime I want...

[USMCSS]

Quote: Originally Posted by PureVenom That is about right. Here it is $399 for the tuner and then $150 an hour for dyno tuning....unless you bring your own tuner then it is $425 an hour for tuning. Honestly, IMO, get the long tubes...and get the tune. I would say get a tuner though and not a chip, but I couldn't tell you why one is better than the other really. I just like the idea of being able to datalog with the SCT tuner anytime I want...

SOOO...with all that being said. O/R X-pipes plus LT headers plus chip and dyno, what kind of HP gain can I expect to see?

[PureVenom]

Quote: Originally Posted by USMCSS SOOO...with all that being said. O/R X-pipes plus LT headers plus chip and dyno, what kind of HP gain can I expect to see?

If you do it all...with the bump in timing...20-40 at the wheels...I know, kind of wide range, but all cars are different and some respond better than others...and some people tune better than others.

Besides, the sound difference will be very much worth it.