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[Squirrel]

I once heard that using a small ammount of nitrous (like 35-50 shot) would have a cooling affect so it would be ok...cant remember were i heard that. So, I would say yes it would be ok, thats my 2 cents. Oh and they have this new stuff called CRY02, which is Co2 that you could use to help your engine from blowing up, and with only 7 pounds I think ull be straight.

[Rellik]

Umm the CryO2 system is an air cooling device. CO2 is fed into a bulb that is in your intake tubing. Air passing around the bulb will cool off from being in contact with the ice cold CO2 Bulb. I was actually thinking of buying this system a while ago. But with Tech inspection, I dont know if they would like that too much at the track. :|

[Squirrel]

I know what the CRY02 system is... im saying that if he used it, it would help fight detanation, and he didnt want his engine to blow up(like any of us do,right?).

[Monkey]

the Cry02 doesnt prevent detonation directly.

it helps by cooling the air drastically which in turn allows more to go into the intake and heads. there, more air is mixed with more fuel. this produces hp. plus with the fact that cooler air is better for a hot engine, this adds hp indirectly.

[Squirrel]

Nicely said Brandon.

[el cheapo]

but this is all n2o is doing anyway. the main hp adding feature of n2o is the drastic drop in charge temp. Your engine goes from ingesting air at 150 degrees to an air/oxygen mixture that (due to the presence of nitrogen) can drop to something like 40 degrees or whatever depending on the shot. There is also the fact that since nitrogen and oxygen are about the same atomic weight, n20 is 33% oxygen while the atmosphere is about 10% at best!

[Rellik]

You have to realize that Oxygen is extremely flamable. But even if... you only get about 1HP per 10 degree drop... so by your equasion... it's about 4hp. MOST (if not all) of Your power is coming from the increase in oxygen to the air fuel mixture.

[Horse]

I though it was way more than 1hp per 10*
I don't know what it was, but I thought it was more than that.

[Rellik]

Thats only what I've heard. But reagardless, its the incease of flammable Oxygen that assists Nitrous Oxide systems.

[el cheapo]

woah woah woah. . if you got 1 hp from 10 degrees then why would we have innercoolers?? seems like a big waste. It is much more drastic than that.

Also, to be technical about it, oxygen by its self is not flamable. Nor is n2o. Oxygen is required in order for a fuel source to combust. The more oxygen avalible, the easier and the faster a fuel source will combust (ie gasoline.)

so pure O2 is very dangerous, because it will alow any fuel source to burn explosively, and even things that you wouldnt expect to burn will explode.

and the 33% oxygen in n2o also behaves this way to an extent.

so yes, n2o= dangerous
but n2o is not flamable

and it can also give you giggles!!

[Monkey]

time for me to chime in.

el cheapo - the reason nitrous works is because the nitrogen stabilizes the pressure in the cylinder and the oxygen breaks off adding more to the mixutre. the nitrous also gets more gas into the chamber. this in turn adds oxygen and fuel to the cylinder causing the increase in hp. Cry02 does not go into the engine. it just cools the whole thing off.

rellik - yes, there is a 1BHP gain for every 10° trop in engine temperature

el cheapo - intercoolers are a plus because the air coming in after the compressor is hotter than the engine itself. the intercooler can lower temperatures by as much as 100*. plus with all the air that is flowing thru there, it adds up more. with any forced induction (non nitrous) the air is significantly hotter than normal. the intercooler lowers it. plus, the amount of air it forces into the engine even at 10° more is about 5hp. with a forced induction setup, the equation goes to about 3BHP for every 10° dropped. the compressed air makes it hotter just being compressed along w/ all the potential energy compressed air has.

your statement about O2 not being flammible is wrong. pure O2 is flammible. and you know what ignites in the combustion chamber??? the oxygen. the gasoline is a catalyst. C3H8 + 5O2 + 5*3.773 N2 --> 3 CO2 + 4 H2O + 5*3.773 N2 that is the actual chemical formula that occurs in the combustion chamber. the gasoline is a catalyst, and the O2 is used to produce CO2.

and the 33% oxygen in nitrous is used to put more air and fuel into the combustion chamber. that is how it adds hp. yes, it gets a larger explosion, but so does a blower for that matter. inside the combustion chamber of the head, air and fuel mix to combust and produce horsepower. it doesnt matter if its N/A, nitrous fed, blown or what. the extra oxygen and fuel makes more hp.

[Rellik]

Quote: Cry02 does not go into the engine. it just cools the whole thing off.

The CryO2 system DOES go into the engine ... more accurately, into the air induction. CO2 NEVER physically enters the airflow, doing so will kill the engine.....really quick. Rather, the system forces the air to pass arround the CO2 filled aparatus, cooling off incoming air only. It Also has applications to cool off intercooled air, by shooting the actual CO2 through the intercooler fins.

By saying that the CryO2 doesnt go into the engine, is false. It's installed into the air induction

By saying that it cools off the engine is also false, it cools off the incoming air.

[Monkey]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rellik Quote: Cry02 does not go into the engine. it just cools the whole thing off. The CryO2 system DOES go into the engine ... more accurately, into the air induction. CO2 NEVER physically enters the airflow, doing so will kill the engine.....really quick. Rather, the system forces the air to pass arround the CO2 filled aparatus, cooling off incoming air only. It Also has applications to cool off intercooled air, by shooting the actual CO2 through the intercooler fins. By saying that the CryO2 doesnt go into the engine, is false. It's installed into the air induction By saying that it cools off the engine is also false, it cools off the incoming air.

ass :P you know what i meant. why would someone actually put CO2 into their combustion chamber? and for cooling the engine... it does that indirectly. when <100° air is flowing into the engine, you think that wont cool the engine? :p

[el cheapo]

Quote: the reason nitrous works is because the nitrogen stabilizes the pressure in the cylinder and the oxygen breaks off adding more to the mixutre. the nitrous also gets more gas into the chamber. this in turn adds oxygen and fuel to the cylinder causing the increase in hp. Cry02 does not go into the engine. it just cools the whole thing off.

yeah thats what i sed, right?

Quote: rellik - yes, there is a 1BHP gain for every 10° trop in engine temperature el cheapo - intercoolers are a plus because the air coming in after the compressor is hotter than the engine itself. the intercooler can lower temperatures by as much as 100*. plus with all the air that is flowing thru there, it adds up more. with any forced induction (non nitrous) the air is significantly hotter than normal. the intercooler lowers it. plus, the amount of air it forces into the engine even at 10° more is about 5hp. with a forced induction setup, the equation goes to about 3BHP for every 10° dropped. the compressed air makes it hotter just being compressed along w/ all the potential energy compressed air has.

ok, ill buy that. I can see what you mean it makes sence.

Quote: your statement about O2 not being flammible is wrong. pure O2 is flammible. and you know what ignites in the combustion chamber??? the oxygen. the gasoline is a catalyst. C3H8 + 5O2 + 5*3.773 N2 --> 3 CO2 + 4 H2O + 5*3.773 N2 that is the actual chemical formula that occurs in the combustion chamber. the gasoline is a catalyst, and the O2 is used to produce CO2.

ok, i dont know what you are trying to say here. Your chemical equation is for the combustion of gasoline. . and the way i see it you have written 5*3.773 N2 as the catalyst.

a catalyst is a substance which speeds up a reaction but DOES NOT take part in the reaction.

catalyst

n 1: (chemistry) a substance that initiates or accelerates a chemical reaction without itself being affected
(from dictionary.com )

in your equation gasoline is effected, in fact it is combusted in the presence of oxygen to produce water and co2 which is correct and the N is a spectator, which is also correct.

but gasoline is most deffinately not a catalyst. It is a reactant.

now oxygen. . .

oxygen

n : a nonmetallic bivalent element that is normally a colorless odorless tasteless nonflammable diatomic gas; constitutes 28 percent of the atmosphere by volume; the most abundant element in the earth's crust

from dictionary. com

also

Note: It occurs combined in immense quantities, forming eight ninths by weight of water, and probably one half by weight of the entire solid crust of the globe, being an ingredient of silica, the silicates, sulphates, carbonates, nitrates, etc. Oxygen combines with all elements (except fluorine), forming oxides, bases, oxyacid anhydrides, etc., the process in general being called oxidation, of which combustion is only an intense modification. At ordinary temperatures with most substances it is moderately active, but at higher temperatures it is one of the most violent and powerful chemical agents known. It is indispensable in respiration, and in general is the most universally active and efficient element.

so combustion in an engine is another form of oxidation, such as rusting is an oxidation process in the simple equation

2Fe + O2 =>2(FeO)

where oxygen is the oxidizer and iron is the reducer.

now then in your combustion example it is no diffrent only we now have carbon chains to deal with which always combust or "oxidize" into water and CO2.

So just like you said, the increase in O2 produces more hp because the reaction is able to take place more quickly.
And as i said, there is a cooling effect that takes place within the reactions as the n20 breaks down.

but oxygen is not flamable.


[/b]

[Monkey]

oh, and youre right. pure 100% O2 is not flammable. but if it mixes with anything else, then it is. ie, gasoline, and 10.3:1 compression ratio.

maybe i didnt use the right word about gas being the catalyst, but it is what takes the spark from the spark plug and ignites the compressed air. both are effected, but its initial role is as a catalyst. (sorry, i think catalyst, i think of the biology term since thats my major. one to lower the threshold and induce the reaction quicker) anyway, why do you think you have detonation in cars not running high enough octane?? the combustion occurs before the spark happens. thus its the oxygen that is igniting.

i think we both are right and both trying to argue something else. i know what im trying to say, and you know what youre trying to say. so how about we just call it even on this issue?

[el cheapo]

hehe your right monkey, you know what you are talking about.

i hate it when i get in an arguement and realize that we were both arguing the same point. But yea, catalyst is the wrong word in this case, at least the chemistry meaning of catalyst, i have to admit, i dont know crap about bio, but i do know a little chem (im a physics major) :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


oh and monkey you will find this interesting, you know how a diesal engine works? It works on that very principal you were talking about. They plan on detonation. A diesal has no spark plugs. They take the fuel oxygen mixture and compress it to like 16:1 or some rediculous compression and the heat of compression causes detonation.

my dad is a diesal mechanic, they are pretty interesting machines.

[Rellik]

Quote: Originally Posted by Monkey ass :P you know what i meant. why would someone actually put CO2 into their combustion chamber? and for cooling the engine... it does that indirectly. when <100° air is flowing into the engine, you think that wont cool the engine? :p

I know what you meant, but your'e right, I'm feeling arnery. There is only one logical reason to dump CO2 into a combustion chamber... TO KILL THE ENGINE!!! CO2 will completly kill the combustion process.

Blowing air onto the engine itself cools it off... so technically, if/when you fart in front of your raidiator, that would cool the engine off too .

The most he CryO2 system will do is cool off the upper and lower manifolds.. maybe the heads... but otehr than that, it wont cool off the block worth a damn.

[Monkey]

Quote: Originally Posted by el cheapo hehe your right monkey, you know what you are talking about. i hate it when i get in an arguement and realize that we were both arguing the same point. But yea, catalyst is the wrong word in this case, at least the chemistry meaning of catalyst, i have to admit, i dont know crap about bio, but i do know a little chem (im a physics major) :mrgreen: :mrgreen: oh and monkey you will find this interesting, you know how a diesal engine works? It works on that very principal you were talking about. They plan on detonation. A diesal has no spark plugs. They take the fuel oxygen mixture and compress it to like 16:1 or some rediculous compression and the heat of compression causes detonation. my dad is a diesal mechanic, they are pretty interesting machines.

its all good. truce? but how can you be a physics major? i hated that class so much. oh well, to each their own.

yeah, diesal engines have glow rods taht i believe further heat up the air that is compressed as much as like 20:1. its insane