Flat Shifting

[doinurx]

Hi i have had a 02 mustang(full stock) for about 2.5 months now. When racing friends on the highway who have tuned up there cars i see myslef falling behind them just slightly. i have heard that flatshifting(shift with out clutch-though rpm's) can be faster when use correctly. i have tried doing this but it seems that the car only lets me flat shift when im around 2-2.5k rpm's i no this cant be right cuz i am getting nothing out of the gears and im in 4gear by 65mps- compared to when i clutch shift i can make it to 65-70 in third gear. if any1 has any hints/tips on how to shift with out the clutch plz respond to help me become a betterdriver and hopfully beat my friend's sup'ed up 01-


Doinurx-

[matthews.stang]

Quote: Originally Posted by doinurx Hi i have had a 02 mustang(full stock) for about 2.5 months now. When racing friends on the highway who have tuned up there cars i see myslef falling behind them just slightly. i have heard that flatshifting(shift with out clutch-though rpm's) can be faster when use correctly. i have tried doing this but it seems that the car only lets me flat shift when im around 2-2.5k rpm's i no this cant be right cuz i am getting nothing out of the gears and im in 4gear by 65mps- compared to when i clutch shift i can make it to 65-70 in third gear. if any1 has any hints/tips on how to shift with out the clutch plz respond to help me become a betterdriver and hopfully beat my friend's sup'ed up 01- Doinurx-

Your transmission is gonna love you.

[doinurx]

hehe yea i no-but i gota win

[PureVenom]

My hint is...don't do it. You need to be able to RPM match for each gear...which may take a couple seconds for the RPMs to drop to the desired level = slow.

If you want to shift faster, don't lift your gas foot while shifting...get a short shifter...and practice rowing through the gears.

[Thomas91169]

NO

our trannies might be able to take quite a bit of abuse, but push them past the limit and screw up once and they will let you know they are displeased with your actions. in other words, dont do it. find another way to gain an advantage, like a set of gears or something.

[Stumpy]

here's a thought... you don't want to shift, buy an auto. otherwise, buy a short shifter and learn your shifting sweet spot. that way when you shift (with the clutch), you get the maximum power and maximum thrust.

[doinurx]

who said i dont want to shift-im only looking for a faster way to shift-

[1996stang]

Quote: Originally Posted by doinurx who said i dont want to shift-im only looking for a faster way to shift-

Faster way= short-throw shifter and learning how to use it.

[bbunt302]

If you really want faster shifts, you could try power shifting. It's not the best thing in the world for your clutch, engine or transmission either, but it is safer than clutchless shifting.

All you do is never take your foot off the gas when you push in the clutch to change gears.

There are two important things to remember here: 1) Don't try to do this and shift at redline. You probably shouldn't be shifting at redline anyway in a stock car. If you start bouncing off the limiter, you may cause serious harm to your engine. 2) You'll want to get a good short throw shifter first. This can be done with the stock shifter, but only if you really know what you are doing.

I wish your tranny luck. It's going to need it...

[SpectorV]

make sure where you are shifting is correct, the car does not peak power at redline in most cases it peaks before so you dont need to go much if any past the peak rpm of the vehicle.

[MonteCitan]

I always use the clutch.. doesn't mean I take my foot off the gas entirely, but I still use the clutch..

[bullitt482]

Quote: Originally Posted by Thomas91169 NO our trannies might be able to take quite a bit of abuse, but push them past the limit and screw up once and they will let you know they are displeased with your actions. in other words, dont do it. find another way to gain an advantage, like a set of gears or something.

I powershifted my T3650 for over 70,000 miles and it hasn't missed a beat.. Everyone knows speedshifting is for pussies. Then again, that was on a pretty much stock car

[Tape]

Quote: Originally Posted by bullitt482 I Everyone knows speedshifting is for pussies.

guess i'm a pussy

[Thomas91169]

Quote: Originally Posted by bullitt482 I powershifted my T3650 for over 70,000 miles and it hasn't missed a beat.. Everyone knows speedshifting is for pussies. Then again, that was on a pretty much stock car

yeah but if by powershifting you mean shifting without taking your foot off the gas (i call it NLTS or No Lift To Shift) than yeah, i do that often when im driving agressively. but as far as clutchless shifting, no fucking way. give me a dog-box tranny and im all over not using the clutch. stock tranny from the factory, nope, ill still use my gas-clutch-gas method thank you very much.

btw NLTS is a term used by many turbo cars with the ability to modify ecu parameters (like with dsmlink). you can set the rev limit when the clutch switch is engaged (ie clutch depressed) to a certain point (like say, 5500rpm). this way, you can stay WOT the entire time, when you engage the clutch, the ecu automatically hits the rev limiter and backs off rpm to 5500 (if youre really that slow at shifting, setting the rev limiter is just useful so you dont just redline the motor to hell and back when shifting) but since the turbo stays spooled based on load, and youre still WOT, the turbo stays spooled during the shift, your motor doesnt rev out, and you come into the next gear at the same boost you left the previous one at. i used it on my GST and while its not much of a big deal with a smaller turbo, when you get into the larger turbos, especially non ball-bearing ones, keeping the boost at or just around the turbo's set amount during the entire run will make quite the difference.

this is also the same thing as a studderbox for full-boost launches, you stay wot and spool the turbo while the revs still stay at a set point till the ecu senses youve reached a certain speed (7-10mph is what most awd guys set that speed at) and then it returns that set rev limiter to the desired rev limiter for the entire rpm range (like 7-7.5k)

[bullitt482]

Quote: Originally Posted by Thomas91169 yeah but if by powershifting you mean shifting without taking your foot off the gas (i call it NLTS or No Lift To Shift) than yeah, i do that often when im driving agressively. but as far as clutchless shifting, no fucking way. give me a dog-box tranny and im all over not using the clutch. stock tranny from the factory, nope, ill still use my gas-clutch-gas method thank you very much. btw NLTS is a term used by many turbo cars with the ability to modify ecu parameters (like with dsmlink). you can set the rev limit when the clutch switch is engaged (ie clutch depressed) to a certain point (like say, 5500rpm). this way, you can stay WOT the entire time, when you engage the clutch, the ecu automatically hits the rev limiter and backs off rpm to 5500 (if youre really that slow at shifting, setting the rev limiter is just useful so you dont just redline the motor to hell and back when shifting) but since the turbo stays spooled based on load, and youre still WOT, the turbo stays spooled during the shift, your motor doesnt rev out, and you come into the next gear at the same boost you left the previous one at. i used it on my GST and while its not much of a big deal with a smaller turbo, when you get into the larger turbos, especially non ball-bearing ones, keeping the boost at or just around the turbo's set amount during the entire run will make quite the difference. this is also the same thing as a studderbox for full-boost launches, you stay wot and spool the turbo while the revs still stay at a set point till the ecu senses youve reached a certain speed (7-10mph is what most awd guys set that speed at) and then it returns that set rev limiter to the desired rev limiter for the entire rpm range (like 7-7.5k)

Thank you for your totally off topic lesson for the day



Powershifting is leaving your foot floored while shifting with the clutch and that is a general definition, not just my interpretation. NLTS??? That's the first time I've EVER heard that term on any forum, dragstrip, streetraces, etc.

A guy I used to work with has a two step(studder setup not box in this case) on their stangs with the stock computer and a programmer. They have theirs set at 1 mph.

[Thomas91169]

the rx7 and supra guys call it that too. i always though it was a dsm thing until we had a few rx7 and supra guys come to our meet and they called it nlts as well.

btw offtopic responses usually happen when im bored late at night. you should be grateful to be in the presence of such awesomeness.

[bullitt482]

Well, without me, it's just aweso

[meteorachick]

(a) you are going to seriously screw up your tranny
(b) street racing is for losers. take it to the track.