Nitrous - Should I or leave it be?

[PureVenom]

Ok, I keep waffling on this about as bad as I do on whether to go whipple or KB. I have solved the W vs KB dilemma (I think)...but the idea of juice for those "special occasions" just keeps popping into my head.

I was thinking a 50-75 shot just to add ~125-150 rwtq to the car and about 60-100 rwhp (numbers based on actual gains from a 50 shot recorded on the same dyno on the same day) .

Just when I convince myself it is a good idea...I think "but how often would you really use it" and talk myself back out of it.

I could go 100-150 shot, but I know that is going to require 100+ octane minimum be in the car at all times "just in case"...which would get expensive even buying torco in bulk.

Anyhow...what do y'all think. Should I run a small shot for that "something extra"...or just leave it be? Keep in mind too, that I will be getting a build shortblock for the car later next year as well as a whipple that I am planning to push ~19-20 psi through.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Advice? Wet vs Dry? etc...Come on juicers...now's your chance to talk me into it.

[MarkuzLS1]

Have you seen the kits that have their own fuel reservior in the engine bay? That way you can run straight race gas for the fuel enrichment on a wet kit so you get better octane. I'll see if I can find you an example...

[PureVenom]

I saw something about that yesterday, but it required moving the battery to the trunk and I am not sure I want to do that yet.

[rydog]

Not a big nitrous fan so I am kinda bias and which did you decide whipple or KB

[PureVenom]

Quote: Originally Posted by rydog Not a big nitrous fan so I am kinda bias and which did you decide whipple or KB

I'm not a nitrous fan either which is why it is so tough right now.

As for which...at this point it is still whipple.

[Thomas91169]

having a single power adder is better IMO. easier to tune, easier on the motor, etc. you are now tuning for two things to go wrong instead of one. if your fuel delivery system fails at any point, or the tune is off, not even the most ultimately forged motors will survive the aftermath.

Nitrous + FI imo is always risky business. i always steer people clear of nitrous and boost and tell them they should find a way to get more air into the motor more efficiently before resorting to a second power adder. in your case, ditch the eaton for a Whipple/KB setup that should put you at the point you would be at if you kept the eaton and added nitrous on top.

however there are people having success with nitrous on termies. the nitrous has a bonus cooling effect that helps counteract the added heat from the eaton that helps bring down intake temperature charges, depending on amount used.

IMO im on the fence with this, but i think id rather have 600whp from a single power adder than 600whp from a eaton+nitrous.

[bullitt482]

Quote: Originally Posted by Thomas91169 having a single power adder is better IMO. easier to tune, easier on the motor, etc. you are now tuning for two things to go wrong instead of one. if your fuel delivery system fails at any point, or the tune is off, not even the most ultimately forged motors will survive the aftermath.

Here we go.... Another instance of people talking about stuff they know NOTHING ABOUT. Has anyone EVER heard of a hobbs switch???? It is wired into the system to recognize fuel pressure. If there is EVER a drop in pressure(you can get ones set for as low as 5 psi and up to what you need, a 35-40 psi switch will do), ex fuel pump failing, the hobbs switch will turn the system off the same way a window switch would.

Nothing is 100 percent safe. I just love how people tend to associate blown up motors with nitrous, instead of poorly set up nitrous systems. And the problems that you stated: poor tune, fuel deliver failure, etc. That goes FOR ANY POWER ADDER NOT JUST NITROUS. Don't knock something you know hardly anything about. Ask Venom about one of the guys on Modularfords who is putting over a 1000 at the wheels with TWO power adders. From what I can tell he is going for some sort of record with a roots blower. He is using a whipple with a 250 shot and 30 psi to run 8's.

Do people not realize that 9 times out of 10 if you use previously stated nitrous kits, there is NO tuning involved except for retarding some timing. The engine will never even notice the addition of nitrous because it never goes through the mass air. The engine will operate the same as before. The nitrous system is DESIGNED to add it's own amount of fuel that is already calibrated for the amount of nitrous being sprayed, so the computer does not have to account for anything.

I say put a plate kit under the blower, stand alone cell, wire in a window switch, and a hobbs switch, and vualah(sp?). Reliable power.

P.S. If you are worried about bottle pressure(I know it'll come up) I'll try and find it, but there is an actually bottle casing that adjust bottle pressure up or down by using and air conditioning system and a heater. It's relatively inexpensive(300 or so) and can be plugged into your cigarette lighter.

[PureVenom]

Quote: Originally Posted by Thomas91169 IMO im on the fence with this, but i think id rather have 600whp from a single power adder than 600whp from a eaton+nitrous.

I intend to have 600+ with blower only...but the idea of a little extra once in a while sounds pretty tempting...not to mention have the little extra to cool the charge off the current heaton.

[bullitt482]

Quote: Originally Posted by PureVenom I intend to have 600+ with blower only...but the idea of a little extra once in a while sounds pretty tempting...not to mention have the little extra to cool the charge off the current heaton.

Smart man . An acquaintence of mine is running a ported blower, plate kit, and supporting hardware to run consistent 10's. You pop the hood and it looks stone stock. It even still has the pulley cover on it. The plate kit is hidden under the blower and he has "things" to cover up the soleniods.

[PureVenom]

Quote: Originally Posted by bullitt482 Smart man . An acquaintence of mine is running a ported blower, plate kit, and supporting hardware to run consistent 10's. You pop the hood and it looks stone stock. It even still has the pulley cover on it. The plate kit is hidden under the blower and he has "things" to cover up the soleniods.

Do you know where he obtained this kit or who makes it or what it is called?

[Thomas91169]

Quote: Originally Posted by bullitt482 Here we go.... Another instance of people talking about stuff they know NOTHING ABOUT. Has anyone EVER heard of a hobbs switch???? It is wired into the system to recognize fuel pressure. If there is EVER a drop in pressure(you can get ones set for as low as 5 psi and up to what you need, a 35-40 psi switch will do), ex fuel pump failing, the hobbs switch will turn the system off the same way a window switch would.

and what happens when an injector fails shut and you now have one cylinder thats only getting enough fuel for the nitrous (if its a wet kit) and all that air, that cylinder leans out and you get a melted piston, because the nitrous+fuel and air makes for a really lean mixture which raises cylinder temps past the pistons melting point rather quickly.

now without the nitrous/fuel mix, you would just have a dead cylinder, cant have much of a power stroke without fuel.

and your hobbs switch is useless because it only senses a drop in pressure at the rail or wherever, if you kill an injector closed the pressure doesnt drop at the rail, so theres nothing telling the nitrous system to turn off.

just one of many scenarios.

Quote: Originally Posted by bullitt482 Ask Venom about one of the guys on Modularfords who is putting over a 1000 at the wheels with TWO power adders. From what I can tell he is going for some sort of record with a roots blower. He is using a whipple with a 250 shot and 30 psi to run 8's.

wow neato. its probably a built motor and a track only car. were talking about Venoms car, its still a beautiful street-worthy vehicle, i doubt it will see any track time.

Quote: Originally Posted by bullitt482 An acquaintence of mine is running a ported blower, plate kit, and supporting hardware to run consistent 10's. You pop the hood and it looks stone stock. It even still has the pulley cover on it. The plate kit is hidden under the blower and he has "things" to cover up the soleniods.

i know alot have done that on boost alone. black cobra running a KB ran a 11.2 on dr's and stock IRS save for a irs brace. few dsm guys on the dsmlink forums running that with GT30's and are now just venturing into methanol injection and planning on going bigger turbo's.

IMO id run methanol injection before i run nitrous. throw some 100 octane in the tank and run a second tune that turns on the methanol system at around 3k right before the turbo starts spooling, and lean out the fuel curve and add more timing. rather just get race gas but its like 10$/gal and at the track only, but this is a cheaper and safer alternative. if the meth system fails and youre using a input into dsmlink it will either revert to the non-meth tune or will retard timing and give you a CEL until you pull over and check wtf happened on that run.

[PureVenom]

Quote: Originally Posted by Thomas91169 ...(if its a wet kit)

This kind of brings me back to the other part of my question...if I were to go juice...should I do it wet or dry?

Quote: Originally Posted by Thomas91169 wow neato. its probably a built motor and a track only car. were talking about Venoms car, its still a beautiful street-worthy vehicle, i doubt it will see any

The ultimate goal for the car will be a built motor with 19-20 psi whipple on top. You are right about the track time though...It will probably only see the track 2-3 times a year depending on how ambitious I feel. The go-go juice would see more use on the street than the track in the end.

Quote: Originally Posted by Thomas91169 IMO id run methanol injection before i run nitrous. throw some 100 octane in the tank and run a second tune that turns on the methanol system at around 3k right before the turbo starts spooling, and lean out the fuel curve and add more timing. rather just get race gas but its like 10$/gal and at the track only, but this is a cheaper and safer alternative. if the meth system fails and youre using a input into dsmlink it will either revert to the non-meth tune or will retard timing and give you a CEL until you pull over and check wtf happened on that run.

In all honesty, meth injection is useless. Even if you do tune for it like you need to in order to see any kind of gains, you will see more gains with a nitrous kit...even if it is just a small shot.

As for the octane, I wouldn't be buying any gas at the track. I fully intend to pick up a 5 gallon bucket of torco once the whipple goes on. This is mainly due to the fact that it will be a ton cheaper in the end and it will let me adjust any bad gas I might get. Besides, when I do go to the track, I am figuring on swapping out pullies and running another couple psi....the torco will come in very handy there.

In all reality, if I was going to inject something other than fuel, it would be nitrous.

[Kyle]

i like the idea of having more...........so go for it...........think about it, you can go that much faster

[Zim]

To answer your wet/dry debate... Id never touch a dry kit. Id rather have the fuel already there than count on your MAF figuring out how much more fuel you need. With the fuel upgrades you'd have to do to run 19psi anyway, why push the envelope even further? Run a wet kit... they 100% safer.

[PureVenom]

Quote: Originally Posted by Zim To answer your wet/dry debate... Id never touch a dry kit. Id rather have the fuel already there than count on your MAF figuring out how much more fuel you need. With