With the C6 Z06, so this is Dodges responce. Sorry its not more of a performance test.
Apparently it one ups the Z06 in most performance catagories, but I'm sure that will change when Chevy releases its new Z07, SS, Blue Devil, or whatever their going to call it Vette here in a year or so, and it will probably keep snowballing from there. Thats all well and good and everything but I want to know where the fuck is Ford, they need to get in the game.... Oh wait, I forgot, Fords letting Shelby build the 600 and 725 HP Super Pigs.(the 725hp version will not have a warrenty) I bet GM and Chrysler are shaking in their boots. Ford needs to quit BSing around and build a car to compete directly with the Viper and Vette and quit trying to do it with some fat ass, 2 ton Mustang, with a stupid ass Shelby badge. Thats my opinion anyway.
ford doesn't have to compete... sadly. If ford could make money doing it they would...
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ford doesnt need to compete...........an 03/04 cobra with a kb and full boltons should make just as much or more hp than that and for half the price after the mods. ford knows people mod sportscars to make them fast, so why not just build it decently and make it have the potential to go much faster.
a whipple is far more powerful and efficient than an eaton, but why didnt they put that in there to begin with? b/c its cheaper
I think if Ford would build "cooler"(can't think of a better word) cars then their sells would be up. Most of their new cars look kind of blah, or somethink like that. Let face it as much as we like Mustangs their not very advanced cars.(their affordable musclecars) If Ford built a higherend car to compete with Vettes, Vipers, and the foreign cars, priced it reasonably, and didn't set a limit on its production it could bring people over to the brand. I'm not saying it has to be as exotic as the GT, but people sure were impressed by that car, and now Chevy and Dodges highend offering are out performing it only a few years later for much less money.
Mustangs aren't supposed to be supercars like the Viper or Vette. It's an affordable car that anyone can buy, that's its appeal. It's one of the best selling cars of all time and as common as the civic. However Ford knows that the base they put out has much greater potential than either Dodge or Chevy. That's average Joe's second appeal to it. It will not need as much money into it to distinguish it as just an ordinary Mustang and it can compete with the big boys as well.
What I see went wrong with the GT40 was the made it more of a replica of the LeMans than tomorrows Supercar. However no one wants to spend 100G on some psuedo-replica. With the GT40 Ford should take one and gut it and just proceed to build their Supercar. Let the interior work around that. What ever happened to less is more?
IMO Ford>Dodge>Chevy; Corvette>Viper>Mustang. However that last opinion is quite true since the class the Mustang fills is not the same as either Viper or Vette. Therefor all this is becoming redundant
Sorry I just get a little bothered when people compare apples and oranges. It's like comparing a Stanze to a Mustang or something. Do I like the rivalry between The Big 3? Yes. Between Vette and Mustang? Surely. As much I want to believe the Mustang is better than the Vette and despite personal belief and opinion and with the exception of circumstances, the Corvette simply is better "out of the box".
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"At the age of six I wanted to be a cook. At seven I wanted to be Napoleon. And my ambition has been growing steadily ever since. There are some days when I think I'm going to die from an overdose of satisfaction."
~ Salvador Dali
imo ford needs to bring back the Tbird, make it look badass, 2 seater, make it light (3200 or lower), and give it the 5.4L/4V/Eaton/T56/IRS combo. 500whp base, 600whp for the upper level. priced 50k MSRP and mandatory maximum markup of $5k. they will sell insanely fast, moving more units, which in turn with the smaller markup, means the dealership will want to sell more, which means they order more, which means ford has to make more, which means ford makes money.
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-Thomas-
2003 Redfire Cobra "Ruby" - Mine Again!
1990 Eclipse GSX - Project "What the Hell is that clunking noise and where did my power steering go?!"
Mustangs aren't supposed to be supercars like the Viper or Vette. It's an affordable car that anyone can buy, that's its appeal. It's one of the best selling cars of all time and as common as the civic. However Ford knows that the base they put out has much greater potential than either Dodge or Chevy. That's average Joe's second appeal to it. It will not need as much money into it to distinguish it as just an ordinary Mustang and it can compete with the big boys as well.
What I see went wrong with the GT40 was the made it more of a replica of the LeMans than tomorrows Supercar. However no one wants to spend 100G on some psuedo-replica. With the GT40 Ford should take one and gut it and just proceed to build their Supercar. Let the interior work around that. What ever happened to less is more?
IMO Ford>Dodge>Chevy; Corvette>Viper>Mustang. However that last opinion is quite true since the class the Mustang fills is not the same as either Viper or Vette. Therefor all this is becoming redundant
Sorry I just get a little bothered when people compare apples and oranges. It's like comparing a Stanze to a Mustang or something. Do I like the rivalry between The Big 3? Yes. Between Vette and Mustang? Surely. As much I want to believe the Mustang is better than the Vette and despite personal belief and opinion and with the exception of circumstances, the Corvette simply is better "out of the box".
I'm in aggrement with you, Mustangs shouldn't be compared with Vette's, etc. When the new Camaro, and Challenger come out that should and will be it competition. But the Mustang is the top performance car in the Ford lineup, (atleast in the U.S.) and even if its controdictory to what I just said the GT500's closest competition is a base model Vette, and I don't think it should be that way because as you said its based off a cheap performance car platform.
Porsche didn't rely on the 911 to compete with the Enzo, they built the Carrera GT, something of that nature is what I'm trying to say. It should be a pride thing to Ford being that their the third largest automaker in the world they should have a bad ass supercar to compete with other supercars.
gesh, but one thing when ford came back out with the "GT" (GT40) they had to call it the GT, because Ford sold the rights to the term "GT40" a long timeago. they wanted it back when they brought the GT back out (overpriced underpower sportscar) but the guy said u need to pay this price and ford said no due to the price and the short run of the new GT. .. and the mustang is a everyday car that a 16 year old girl can buy all the way up to your 29 year old Cobra guy. Btw, the GT500 is a cool car but its no means a cobra, and ford is just using old school names (sorry shelby ) to try to get the middle age guy to buy one of these fat over priced cars. The real cobra was a sports car, the SVT Cobra is a new age sports car till ford killed the SVT. Ford is stuck on the razerblade front on everything from the 500-SUV's and some trucks.... o well i am true to ford due to my family workes for ford (well for a few more months due to FOrd selling the shops) but the other car makers are doing the right thing, and ford is hoping that the past will make up the rest...
^ So you think the "revert to previous model name" philosophy will help? With the Five Hundred being reverted back to Taurus/Sable? Anyway I do hope things go well for your family.
I see what Ford is trying to do is moving sideways instead of forward. They can be doing a lot more to gain ground, but instead do enough to stay around. They can be doing a lot less anyways. Ford has to take similar steps as the others as well as what they have already done and I'm sure they'll reclaim the number one spot. Their quality is going up so that's a plus, and J.D. Power seems to have liked them this past year. So maybe this is a good sign?
__________________
"At the age of six I wanted to be a cook. At seven I wanted to be Napoleon. And my ambition has been growing steadily ever since. There are some days when I think I'm going to die from an overdose of satisfaction."
~ Salvador Dali
^ So you think the "revert to previous model name" philosophy will help? With the Five Hundred being reverted back to Taurus/Sable? Anyway I do hope things go well for your family.
I see what Ford is trying to do is moving sideways instead of forward. They can be doing a lot more to gain ground, but instead do enough to stay around. They can be doing a lot less anyways. Ford has to take similar steps as the others as well as what they have already done and I'm sure they'll reclaim the number one spot. Their quality is going up so that's a plus, and J.D. Power seems to have liked them this past year. So maybe this is a good sign?
no i mean ford made a 500 back in the 60's we had one. and yeah once more they came back out with the taurus... still overpriced family car that does not get good gas miles.
they wanted it back when they brought the GT back out (overpriced underpower sportscar) but the guy said u need to pay this price and ford said no due to the price and the short run of the new GT. ..
The ford GT is underpowered? You've obviously never ridden in one. That "under powered" car made my 500 hp cobra seem like a family station wagon.
Ford doesn't need a sports car. They have never really had a competitive sports car. They had a couple muscle cars...but their bread and butter is the pony car market (when it comes to cars anyhow). A powerful car for the masses instead of a powerful car for the few.
I just don't see a return on investment high enough to warrant a sports car. As long as they keep putting out mustangs that respond very well to simple mods, there will be no need for anything else.
imo ford needs to bring back the Tbird, make it look badass, 2 seater, make it light (3200 or lower), and give it the 5.4L/4V/Eaton/T56/IRS combo. 500whp base, 600whp for the upper level. priced 50k MSRP and mandatory maximum markup of $5k. they will sell insanely fast, moving more units, which in turn with the smaller markup, means the dealership will want to sell more, which means they order more, which means ford has to make more, which means ford makes money.
Damn, believe it or not, I was thinking the EXACT THING. The T-bird was originally designed to be a vette killer and it did just that, the first year it came out it did kill the vette, in sales. But the oringal intent was to make a better car than the vette.
Like Thomas said rerererelease the tbird with some cajones, lightweight, and make it a little pricey, and make dam sure that it will whoop the fuck out of Dodge's and GM's "supercars."
Damn, believe it or not, I was thinking the EXACT THING. The T-bird was originally designed to be a vette killer and it did just that, the first year it came out it did kill the vette, in sales. But the oringal intent was to make a better car than the vette.
Like Thomas said rerererelease the tbird with some cajones, lightweight, and make it a little pricey, and make dam sure that it will whoop the fuck out of Dodge's and GM's "supercars."
Nice... If it's a topic that all three of us agree on, then hell should be frozen and Ford might actually do it. Who knows.. The sky might fall first though
The ford GT is underpowered? You've obviously never ridden in one. That "under powered" car made my 500 hp cobra seem like a family station wagon.
Ford doesn't need a sports car. They have never really had a competitive sports car. They had a couple muscle cars...but their bread and butter is the pony car market (when it comes to cars anyhow). A powerful car for the masses instead of a powerful car for the few.
I just don't see a return on investment high enough to warrant a sports car. As long as they keep putting out mustangs that respond very well to simple mods, there will be no need for anything else.
You are right, ford found a slice of the market and is using it to their advantage. If they wanted to compete they would have to raise the bar and the price of the given vehicle.... and thus it would be just like the other guys.
To ford its not about having the fastest car or the best performer its about making profit. If they could make a ton of money by turning the mustang into a hybrid they would... in a second lol.
I would like to see them offer some higher up top model mustangs with some good features.. the 03/04 cobra was a great start but they should have done some more RnD on it even if it cost me more it would have been worth it.
__________________ 2003 REDFIRE COBRA #3938 of 5082 @ 05/27/2003 1 of 414
Polished Borla Stingers, MGW Shifter, JLT CAI, SS Inserts, MM FLSFC, MM CC Plates,
10th Anniv Brakes, SS Lines, H&R Race springs, IRS Brace, MRT Hood Struts ME.com Member #29 - 400rwhp/380rwtq
Nice... If it's a topic that all three of us agree on, then hell should be frozen and Ford might actually do it. Who knows.. The sky might fall first though
I'm going to add a fourth to this opinion, and was actually going to post nearly exactly what Thomas posted before I read it, since indeed, the Tbird was created to be in DIRECT competition with the Corvette.
The base model should be the current Shelby motor but with no blower, or at least a smaller one.
Now get this:
The top of the line model will still have all the nice little interrior amenitites, but have a weight reduction kit (assuming Ford engineers are finally figuring out that weight makes a difference), a blower, or bigger one, maybe even form a partnership with KB for the charger, top of the line suspension upgrades (even over the base model Tbird) in other words make it handle competantly with a Vette, and name it the..............
Thunderbird Phoenix...
Hmm...? Oh yeah. Up from the ashes.
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