Future mustang - Some things Mr Ford should think about when building the next one

cbnfs · 05-27-2008, 08:39 AM

Okay, I dunno if you guys may think like me on this one

Mustang should stay affordable (the everybody's RWD sportscar), ie it won't have fancy or super-hi-tech features as:

- Hi-revving engine (~8750rpm or more, but who knows!). Truck engines for the Mustang (Doesn't matter, we love 'em).
- Super-advanced dynamic driving control system and traction control.
- 4wd system with hi-tech differential like on nissan GT-Rs (Mustang should stay RWD).
- Active suspension (computer-managed suspension). right, we still hav a LRA (live rear axle)!!! Nevermind.... you see what I mean? things like that.

So maybe (sure) mustang should just be smaller and lighter than the actual model.

Euro and Jap cars are getting big, fat and heavy today because of the need of interior room and trunk volume. Okay that's nice BUT they've got lotta Hi-tech stuffs I wrote about in the other hand so those cars are heavier (fact) but they are still agile and fast.

Now FORD with the mustang also goes the same "large room" way without really taking care of the agility, which is, in my opinion, a nonsense. Car is SUPERCOOL in the looks but is not that fast and certainly not agile at all.

Don't get me wrong, I DO LOVE the actual model, despite all those bad areas, but ford really can build a greater car, in the same spirit of really famous and beloved/respected models as the nissan 240SX, a relatively simple RWD but GREAT chassis and reduced weight. No matter the engine (soup it up if not enough for you), no matter the rear end LRA (The Toyota Corolla 86's got one too but that car still can kick some other car's asses with it's handling), they should just remove weight, put the engine in a Mid-front setup, put a longer nose, remove the boot, also remove a few inches from the width and produce it as a fastback!

Hope Mr Ford is going to read this one AND DO SOMETHING!!!

**Brent** · 05-27-2008, 10:32 AM

I think they would do good to bring the Falcon over here or build a similar one to that.

**PureVenom** · 05-27-2008, 04:44 PM

My list of suggestions are simple:

Ditch the frilly frilly items like multi colored displays.
Provide standard IRS suspension with optional "drag pack" that includes the solid rear
Provide a base model V6 pony with decent power
Provide a 350 hp V8 mid model
Provide a 400+ hp v8 upper model
Provide a 500+ hp high end model

Done. We don't need navigation, multi colored lights, multi setting climate control, heated seats, etc. Mustangs should NEVER be all wheel drive. We don't need traction control.

Mustangs are a pony car....and high end versions jump into the muscle car. They are not a frilly girly car. Keep it simple. Give me power and a gas pedal.

**DarkShadows** · 05-27-2008, 05:44 PM


Quote: Originally Posted by PureVenom My list of suggestions are simple: Ditch the frilly frilly items like multi colored displays. Provide standard IRS suspension with optional "drag pack" that includes the solid rear Provide a base model V6 pony with decent power Provide a 350 hp V8 mid model Provide a 400+ hp v8 upper model Provide a 500+ hp high end model Done. We don't need navigation, multi colored lights, multi setting climate control, heated seats, etc. Mustangs should NEVER be all wheel drive. We don't need traction control. Mustangs are a pony car....and high end versions jump into the muscle car. They are not a frilly girly car. Keep it simple. Give me power and a gas pedal.

a men my brother. i was gonna say irs standard but you covered that already

Mustangfan2003 · 05-27-2008, 05:51 PM

with the ecoboost i say why not offer a base model with a turbo 4 cylinder and then go all the way up to a 600hp V8. they are rumors about ford using the aussie falcon and the next gen mustang on the same platform and also offering a rwd sedan for the US market on the same platform to replace the panther cars.

cbnfs · 05-28-2008, 01:34 AM


Quote: Originally Posted by Mustangfan2003 with the ecoboost i say why not offer a base model with a turbo 4 cylinder and then go all the way up to a 600hp V8. they are rumors about ford using the aussie falcon and the next gen mustang on the same platform and also offering a rwd sedan for the US market on the same platform to replace the panther cars.

A 4cyl on a mustang? please NO, won't be enough to carry the weight of a V8 4 seater coupe ponycar platform which would be the same for all models. V6, V6turbo, V8, V8turbo YES.
Aussie platforms and IRS designs really sound great and ford should use 'em at least as basis for future mustang evolutions.

**SpectorV** · 05-28-2008, 07:34 AM

yea I dont require much, I like the mach 460~ its not great by any means but it gets the job done~ and pretty much good reliable power and a car thats not super heavy~

rwboring · 05-28-2008, 11:07 AM

DIET!!! you dont need 600 horse if you weigh 3100lbs... well you could still NEED it

**PureVenom** · 05-28-2008, 11:10 AM


Quote: Originally Posted by rwboring DIET!!! you dont need 600 horse if you weigh 3100lbs... well you could still NEED it

Yeah, like my hatch is going to weigh in around 2700-2800 when all is said and done....and I still think I will NEED 600 horse.

Mustangfan2003 · 05-28-2008, 01:04 PM


Quote: Originally Posted by cbnfs A 4cyl on a mustang? please NO, won't be enough to carry the weight of a V8 4 seater coupe ponycar platform which would be the same for all models. V6, V6turbo, V8, V8turbo YES. Aussie platforms and IRS designs really sound great and ford should use 'em at least as basis for future mustang evolutions.

i guess you don't know about the svo fords. they were pretty cool cars but they were also much lighter.

rwboring · 05-28-2008, 02:46 PM


Quote: Originally Posted by PureVenom Yeah, like my hatch is going to weigh in around 2700-2800 when all is said and done....and I still think I will NEED 600 horse.

man i tell ya... i love the idea of the 03-04 cobras having the cast block... but JESSSUSSS... 4000lbs is a lot to push... they could probably run 4psi less boost and have better handling if they would keep it to 3400-3600... and the IRS... thats my biggest complaint... you cant put anyone over 110lbs in the back seat and they are PIGS...

SimplyOrange · 05-28-2008, 02:55 PM


Quote: Originally Posted by rwboring man i tell ya... i love the idea of the 03-04 cobras having the cast block... but JESSSUSSS... 4000lbs is a lot to push... they could probably run 4psi less boost and have better handling if they would keep it to 3400-3600... and the IRS... thats my biggest complaint... you cant put anyone over 110lbs in the back seat and they are PIGS...

i love my 1200 hp capable built aluminum block cobra motor, the weight reduction is waayyy noticable since i converted to coilover, 2 guys can pick up on it and free all the weight off of the coilovers. it handles like a formula 1 car. o and i have SRA which is a little lighter.>>>(rob!!)

**PureVenom** · 05-28-2008, 02:57 PM


Quote: Originally Posted by SimplyOrangeTPS i love my 1200 hp capable built aluminum block cobra motor, the weight reduction is waayyy noticable since i converted to coilover, 2 guys can pick up on it and free all the weight off of the coilovers. it handles like a formula 1 car. o and i have SRA which is a little lighter.>>>(rob!!)

And I have the IRS which helps my car get traction in our louisiana winters....more weight in the back = better traction in the snow.

Fred_Meyer · 05-28-2008, 05:20 PM


Quote: Originally Posted by PureVenom My list of suggestions are simple: Ditch the frilly frilly items like multi colored displays. Provide standard IRS suspension with optional "drag pack" that includes the solid rear Provide a base model V6 pony with decent power Provide a 350 hp V8 mid model Provide a 400+ hp v8 upper model Provide a 500+ hp high end model Done. We don't need navigation, multi colored lights, multi setting climate control, heated seats, etc. Mustangs should NEVER be all wheel drive. We don't need traction control. Mustangs are a pony car....and high end versions jump into the muscle car. They are not a frilly girly car. Keep it simple. Give me power and a gas pedal.

I agree that frilly frilly items are usually not necessary, but having them as options is nice to cater to those who want them. After all, the V6 is the top seller for mustangs, and we wouldn't be here if it weren't for that.

I'm hesitant about standard IRS just because that might jeopardize the Mustang's affordability. It would definately be nice for those who are performance oriented, but for what the Mustang is designed to be, it's usually not necessary. Though having a choice between IRS and LRA is probably the best.

The V6 today already has decent power. But doesn't mean I wouldn't appreciate more!

I'm not sure if we need that many tiers of Mustangs. Having the base, GT, and higher end (GT500, Cobra, etc) is sufficient. The obsession with special edition Mustangs will fill in the gaps in between.

I agree, having built in Navigation in a Mustang looks odd and/or excessive, but doesn't hurt to have the option for those who want it. Other luxuries like heated seats fall into the same category.

Fully agree on the whole no AWD thing. RWD is where the Mustang should stay. Though if special editions and/or more track oriented versions might be cool to have AWD to help the Mustang compete with some other cars. But the base and GT models should definately stay RWD.

Traction control is something I disagree with you on. Mustangs and other cars with that much power to rear wheels should have a toggleable traction control due for those who don't know what they're doing behind the wheel. It might not need to be standard, but traction control should at least be an option like it is now (for V6 anyways). I see no real reason for it not to be there, as long as you can toggle it on and off. We see enough Mustangs in wrecks as it is, and more things to help prevent that, the better.

In summary, while the frilly options are usually not needed, it's good to have them as options to make the car attractive for more people. It was originally the car to be personalized when it first came out anyways. Besides, if it weren't for those who got the "girly" V6 stangs (for the record, I'm a guy, and I'm considering getting a V6 because of fuel economy and price, and I don't race. A Mustang is a Mustang, V8 or no), the Mustang wouldn't be nearly as successful.

Here's my wishlist
More faithful fastback styling (i.e. real fastback)
Lighter
Bit smaller wouldn't hurt
Better fuel economy
More HP/Torque at least to be competitive, but not at sacrifice of fuel economy (A little lower is fine, but we really do need to start making things more efficient)
IRS as option (Unless doing so ups costs to point they have to charge significantly more even for those w/o it to recap cost)
Dual Exhaust V6 would be neat
Deplacement on Demand technology (Toggleable, or done so that when we want power, there's no noticeable delay) Even on V6 that'd be neat

I'd be up for toying with a turboed 4 cyl Mustang, as it might eventually be necessary with Gas going so high, but very hesitant about it. I wish it weren't the case though...

**PureVenom** · 05-28-2008, 05:27 PM

Meh, if they want frilly, let them buy the wanna be charger....

Traction control, meh, mine is disabled in the computer. However, I was more referring to the high tech mumbo jumbo in the post above mine about having some computer controlled suspension stuff going on.

The IRS can be built cheaply and properly...and then charge more for the solid rear.

I just don't see any reason for a mustang to cater to those that aren't looking for what a mustang is. If you want all the creature comforts...but a caddy....of you're looking for the pony car experience, buy the mustang. having both is just making the car more and more bloated. By the time they finish adding all the power seats, power mirrors, back massagers, heated seats, colored lenses, navigation, back scratcher, etc....the car will end up being 6000 pounds with 500 hp running 17s in the 1/4.

as for the V6...since the target market is teens for those, all that extra stuff isn't needed because they just cause more distractions for teens who we all know can't drive for beans anyhow.

Fred_Meyer · 05:40 PM

I'm right there with ya in looking for the pony car experience. The only option I want for sure is the ABS / traction control package because I'm no race car driver, and I admit I'll be much more likely to get myself, anyone who's in my car, and others on the road in trouble without it. But I want to be able to toggle it off in case I wanna drag at some point, or purposely swing out the rear end.

Regarding the other frills, I'm fine with them as options. I don't want them, but I also don't want people who want those filly options to buy the Charger, because that's money that Ford loses, and thus less money Ford is willing to use to make the Mustang better.

**PureVenom** · 05-28-2008, 05:41 PM

My traction control has almost killed me a couple times when it kicked on and killed all power to the wheels leaving me hanging in the middle of an intersection with traffic flying at me....only to have power come back instantly and spin the tires again which in turn activates traction control and kills power...

Ford can keep their version of traction control...it is more dangerous than helpful...in my eyes. It is permanently disabled in my tune...by choice.

Fred_Meyer · 05-28-2008, 06:03 PM

Huh, didn't know the TC worked that way. Good to know.

Still though, likely there's times where it'd be nice to have. As long as it's a toggleable option, I'm cool with it, and would probably get it with ABS since I don't have total confidence in my driving until I practiced. I'd likely only use it on days where the weather sucks.

My only RWD I've had so far was a 94 3.4L V6 Camaro Auto. Even with just 160hp (Probably less figuring its age), it was easy to slide the rear end on a wet day. First time I did that on accident was quite exciting!

But if the TC is as bad as you say, then you might be right and we'd be better off without it.

**PureVenom** · 05-28-2008, 06:39 PM

Yes, the TC in the 99-04's (can't comment on 05+ as I haven't had it engage in any of my test drives) just cuts all power to the wheels for a couple seconds, then back to full power, oops, spinning again, let's cut power again....

Yeah...it blows.

rwboring · 05-29-2008, 06:25 AM

well traction control is what it is... ive seen people complain about it before... maybe you shouldnt put your car in the spot it is going to get hit if it comes on!

... or just turn it off! it has actually saved my ass a couple times...

Fishers Stang · 05-29-2008, 05:37 PM

idk my dad always said. WTF why do I need a 6 disk cd player, TC, a rear seat, auto tranny, AC? (he is a 04 GT 5speed) I have to agree with him. I never use my AC, (my v6 does not have TC) I dont need 6 disk cd now, hell cut 90% of the radio out and leave a plug for my ipod, I have never had anyone in my backseat. They are heavy, and way to high off the ground. I asked a ford rep why they dont lower the car and he said cause have you ever drivin in the snow and hit a pot hole? I said yes and I still asked him why a BMW is 1.5" closer to the ground then my sports car.. he walked away from me.

Fred_Meyer · 05-29-2008, 11:30 PM

While stripping down the stang would be nice for those looking only for performance, that'd hurt Mustang sales big time overall. Some folks live in areas where AC is really helpful. You can see the conversation Purevenom and I had about TC above to see how I feel about that. Manual only Transmission would also be a bad move. Even those who are into performance will get an auto because they might be in areas where they get stuck in traffic often. Taking out the back seats would also likely reduce the folks who would be interested in the Mustang.

The 6 CD changer probably isn't needed, but can be a selling point for those who like CDs. But I do agree with you that AUX inputs for Ipod/Mp3 is what is really needed. The other thing I agree with you on is a lower car wouldn't hurt.

cbnfs · 05-30-2008, 12:56 AM

Ok, for me TC is helpful (really) for the everyday driving in some cases. If ford really want the muscle attitude, the TC should have 3 ways: 1- Active 2- Muscle 3- Off. TC is also required for some safety reputation for sales purpose....
And I'm still not convinced about a 4cyl mustang, cuz in this case, there's gonna be at least 3 engines offered: I4, V6 or base V8, top V8, which would carry the same body, that's it...
But if we could get a V8 in a relatively small, light and 50/50 perfectly balanced car, what to ask more?
IRS/LRA option? Yes!