autox'g the s197

[olds350]

Wow, after searching I finally found this site that has some folks that autocross the s197. I have a few questions please for those that have autox'd the late model mustang.

I've purchased a used 07 GT and I need advice in setting up the car for autox. I've autox'd on a local level for about 8 years with a bmw 328. It was rear wheel drive, but not high horse power like the GT. I plan on staying in stock class per the SCCA solo II rules. Right now all I can put on the car is tires for this year. Next year will be shocks/struts and a front sway.

That said, I need advice on tire pressures and if there is any adjustment on the car to allow more negitive camber adjustments on the front end. I know that Sam Stano autox's a healthy Mustang, so the car is competetive.

I'm planning on running a set of 275 victoracers on stock 17x8 wheels. That's about the best bang for the buck I can afford right now. ANY words of wisdom would be welcome here. I'm looking for any advice on tire pressures, brake pads and such. Also need to know if you can late brake the mustang. I had to early brake the 328, otherwise it would push in the turns. The 328 was true to the term, slow in, fast out. Don't know how balanced this car is from the factory; I know that all stock cars will push, but at least I can throttle steer this one.

I also notice this car has a saddle bag gas tank. Is there any starvation issues? How low of a tank of gas can you run before there are pick up problems?

OK, last but not least. I like the way the car sounds and not really interested in making it louder, but would like to make it breath better. For my class, I can change the air filter and cat back. I'm running a K&N up front, but the cat backs are spendy. I've seen some of the X pipe replacement kits that get rid of the H pipe. Anyone have any information on whether or not this aids in exhaust flow?

That's all I have for now. If you have any autocross wisdom to provide on the s197 cars, I'd appreciate in hearing what you have to say.

Thanks....

[Y2E0L0L5OGWT]

PM sent...Give me a shout sometime and I will be glad to discuss the car and setup with you

[olds350]

Quote: Originally Posted by Y2E0L0L5OGWT PM sent...Give me a shout sometime and I will be glad to discuss the car and setup with you

Reply PM sent. Thank you....

[SpectorV]

I think any real track person will tell you the number one thing you can do to make your car faster is track time. You already have it in another vehicle so you should get up to par much quicker in your new ride. Just get out there and see how far you can go and slowly work towards making it better. Different drivers like different things, there is no pure formula for making the best autox car

I can tell you that lowering it to the right level and such will help, these cars sit WAY to high stock

[Y2E0L0L5OGWT]

He can't lower the car by stock class rules

[DarkShadows]

seat time, seat time, seat time. then get some koni yellows with a good front bar, tires (victo's are good) and a good alignment.

[olds350]

Quote: Originally Posted by SpectorV I think any real track person will tell you the number one thing you can do to make your car faster is track time. You already have it in another vehicle so you should get up to par much quicker in your new ride. Just get out there and see how far you can go and slowly work towards making it better. Different drivers like different things, there is no pure formula for making the best autox car I can tell you that lowering it to the right level and such will help, these cars sit WAY to high stock

Thanks for the feedback. Like Y2E0L0L5OGWT said, I can't change out springs and stay legal in my class. I'm not much of a track person, although I do like the HPDE's. I'm more into autocrossing for my habits right now. With both sons at college at ECU, autocrossing is more affordable right now. Track events are more money than than I care to spend right now.

I agree with seat time. I'm in my 8th year of autox'g, so I have a fair idea of what's going on for car dynamics. I just need to know how to set up the car, that's why I'm asking for input from those that have experience. Makes my learning curve shorter. As for a "pure formula" for setting up the car, no I agree there is no absolute, but in general all cars that are quick have close to the same setup. The variable is alway the driver. I have no asperations to be a national level driver, I enjoy a very healthy competition on a local level that supports my need for speed.

thanks SpectorV

[olds350]

Quote: Originally Posted by DarkShadows seat time, seat time, seat time. then get some koni yellows with a good front bar, tires (victo's are good) and a good alignment.

From an alignment standpoint, what do you run? On my 328 w/ camber plates, I ran 1/8" toe out front and 1/16" toe in rear when on course. Since I'm not running camber plates on the GT, I was thinking of setting the front toe to 0, but I'm open to any suggestions you have and why you set them. I'm still learning this car.

Thank you....

[Y2E0L0L5OGWT]

This is my setup for your reference:

'05 GT - Borla Catback, Koni Adjustable Shocks/Struts, Hawk HP+ Brakes all around, Steeda Front Sway Bar & End-Links, Hoosier A6's (275/40/17) on Enkei RPF1 Race Wheels, Royal Purple Fluids....

Being that you have an 07, I would suggest scrapping the 17" wheels and going with 18" wheels and a 275 or 285 Kumho V710 or Hoosier A6 (both are much better than a Victoracer if you can afford them)...The 18" wheels will give you signicantly shorter sidewalls which results in less flex and better response on turn-in...The 18" wheel option was not availabe until late model 06's and on, so I cannnot run them as I have an 05...

As for tow, I run 0 all around, and -1.6 degrees of camber up front...The Ford service manual allows for camber adjustment by slotting the mounting points on your front struts and installing Ford Camber bolts (i have the part number somewhere)...The factory strut tubes have markings on them which tell you how much you can slot them...The two biggest shock/strut brands for S197 cars are the Tokicko D-specs & Koni Sport Yellows...I have been running the Konis...The Tokicko's do have the slot markings on them, but the Koni's do not so you kinda have to "eye-ball" how much you can slot them...The average camber most have been able to get is between -1.5 and -2.0 degrees depening on how much you want to push the limits of slotting...

Call me later tonight and I can go more in depth with you on setup and driving and all that good stuff...It's entirely too much to type and I am lazy...

[olds350]

Quote: Originally Posted by Y2E0L0L5OGWT As for tow, I run 0 all around, and -1.6 degrees of camber up front...The Ford service manual allows for camber adjustment by slotting the mounting points on your front struts and installing Ford Camber bolts (i have the part number somewhere)...The factory strut tubes have markings on them which tell you how much you can slot them...

THAT!! is GOOD information!!! A factory legal camber adjustment. I like that. I can go over my reasons for being cheap, and it's pretty damn good at that. I'll give you a buzz this evening.

Thanks!!!

[lowflyn]

As soon as I saw the thread title I was gonna tell you to call chris lol. He's the guy you wanna talk to on Autox'ing a S197.

[olds350]

Thanks to Chris for the information and the phone call for options on setting up the car. I did forget one item. I need to purchase a factory service manual, not the haynes style tech book. Didn't know if there is another good source on line to buy the manual other than the dealer. I'd appreciate any advice.

thanks....

[hottcobra]

check out the thread for your service manual

Hi, brand new here.

[DaDant!]

lol or i could repost them here.

[tedness]

the s197 is definitely an autocross beast compared to the sn95 platform. i'm jealous of the shelby GT's stock handling.

[olds350]

Well, I have 2 events under my belt now in the S197. First event was a disaster, throttle management is new to me coming from the 328i! With an event w/ 120 folks, I place mid pack in both raw time and PAX. I had the tires, but no alignment. On to the second event.

Much better the second time autocrossing. To preface the mods, I'm running 275/40x17 kumho victoracers on stock wheels and now have a proper alignment. I was able to gain 1.6 neg degrees camber and running zero toe. I will say the brake pads are next, stock pads not quite cutting it on course. As for tire pressures, I played w/ several setting and liked 40f/38r the best.

Out of a field of 105 drivers in the second event, I placed 8th overall on both raw and PAX times. First time in my 9 years I've ever done this. Even with this, I placed 2nd in class. What's interesting, on my last fun run at the event I relaxed and actually shaved off 2 seconds on my run. That would have placed me 3rd in raw time and would have won my class. Lesson learned here is to trust the car and the tires. This is my first time out on r-comps and I'm holding back.

Speaking of class runs, all 3 mustangs running this past weekend placed in the top 10 raw. All are running in FS. I think that's pretty impressive considering we had vette's, G8's, 135's and an M5.

My impression of the car is great. It has the power and even w/ r-comps, the car is predictable when it starts to break out. If you're not autocrossing one, you should be!!

[DarkShadows]

by the way forgot to give you my aligment settings (dont know if this is good for the s197 platform) but i run 2.25 neg camber, 4.5 caster, and 3/16 total toe out.

[SpectorV]

fun fun, sounds like you had a great time

[olds350]

Quote: Originally Posted by DarkShadows by the way forgot to give you my aligment settings (dont know if this is good for the s197 platform) but i run 2.25 neg camber, 4.5 caster, and 3/16 total toe out.

I assume you're running camber plates to get all that neg camber and toe out. If that's a static setting, then you must be buring up some front tires w/ all of that toe out. I was very hapy to get the 1.6 neg camber on my car. This seems to be the standard for the factory adjustments.

[DarkShadows]

Quote: Originally Posted by olds350 I assume you're running camber plates to get all that neg camber and toe out. If that's a static setting, then you must be buring up some front tires w/ all of that toe out. I was very hapy to get the 1.6 neg camber on my car. This seems to be the standard for the factory adjustments.

ACTUALLY the tires arnt really chewing up that bad at all, but i dont dd it either. and yes i have the mm camber kits.