High rpm gears lockouts and miss shifts - Mustang Evolution

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Old 06-18-2017, 06:29 AM   #1
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High rpm gears lockouts and miss shifts

As all times I am here again for another problem... yeah i know it's a mustang at the end but I see people having more fun with their mustangs than i am
Anyways,
I have been fighting my gear for a while and trying to convince myself that i dont know how to shift my car. ( I drive two 5.0s mine and my friend's, and I race both)
my car locks out just around 6100 rpm while my friend's lock out around 6800rpm.

I think 6800 rpm is good time to shift into next gear (that's why it does not bother friend). However, shifting around 6000 or 5900 bothers me. My car is more powerful and have 4.10 gears. Maybe, this is a reason why car locks out earlier.

I tried many times, different techniques including speed shifting power shifting but my car still locks out 1-2 at 5800 and 2-3 in around 6100 the more i grip the earlier the lock out.

car has stage 4 clutch, Ford racing short shifter and just installed Blowfish shifter support bracket. Problem is the same and nothing changes

I am installing Whiteline Transmission Mount Bushing this week I hope it fixes the problem.

if anyone has an idea let me know


Note: Gear-lockout is not miss shifting. I can do it as slow as I want but It will not go in next gear until rpm goes down
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Old 06-18-2017, 08:30 AM   #2
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That's definitely low (usually lockouts occur over 7K) but the answer is the same: centrifugal force is still likely causing the clutch to hang, even though it is "stage 4". Until you replace the clutch with something that can hack this kind of rpm and power, you'll likely continue to butt heads with this. Could also be the factory throw out bearing is at its limit for you and it can't push the fingers down.
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Old 06-23-2017, 10:14 AM   #3
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I'm hoping MGW will cure this for me...
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Old 06-23-2017, 10:38 AM   #4
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Have you replaced your plastic factory clutch line? If not, I recommend replacing it to a braided stainless steel line.
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Old 06-23-2017, 10:42 AM   #5
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+1 ^ the stainless clutch line is on my to do list also...
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Old 06-23-2017, 10:52 AM   #6
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the clutch line and weak slave cylinder are the problem. There just isn't enough "oomph" to disengage the clutch at high (usually higher...) rpms with the stock pieces.

Also, what "stage 4" did you get, what brand, what's the torque rating... typically just buying a clutch doesn't guarantee its going to shift any better.
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Old 06-23-2017, 10:54 AM   #7
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I'm pretty much stock and I experience gear lock out when driving aggressive. Gets irritating but, I'm sure that stainless line will fix it. Gonna order it pretty soon, will let you know how it goes.
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Old 06-23-2017, 12:39 PM   #8
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Mobd3, the problems you are having seems to be inherent to a more or less degree in all our Mustangs. My '13 Boss has exactly the same issues with occasional lockout at 5500 RPM, even with slow deliberate shifts, primarily 2-3. I have the Blowfish installed which gave much better feel, but the problem persisted. I have a pile of parts to go in including an MGW Race Spec, new JC Racing fluid line and OE TOB, Mcleod RST dual disc and lightened steel flywheel, a Shelby remote fluid reservoir and a BG SynchroShift fluid change. The problem is more complex than just one part, though each thing you replace will help. I've spent a lot of time with this one on Track Mustangs and there are those that really race their cars who have voiced that they wish that they would have replaced all these things sooner rather than later because ultimately the synchronizers in the MT-82 seem to take the brunt of the punishment and many have had to replace or have their transmissions rebuilt before 30k miles. The Getrag is an excellent design with a ratio spread nearly ideal for our Mustangs, but it unfortunately got farmed out to China to be manufactured and the clutch is made in Turkey. Nothing good can come of that! I hope to finally get my Boss to my mechanic and the parts installed in the next couple weeks with any luck. I'll give a review as soon as that happens.
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Old 06-23-2017, 12:49 PM   #9
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I installed the Iso-Clutch remote reservoir kit from Shelby. Although you have to take off the cabin sound device...thought it was a joke anyway...it does separate the clutch from the brake reservoir...I never had any issue shifting above redline.
Having the brake and clutch share a hydraulic reservoir is a poor design in my book...I do understand room for the cabin sound tube prevented the use of two reservoirs...IMHO

Shelby Mustang Iso-Clutch Remote Reservoir Kit SHEL031 (10-14 All) - Free Shipping

The second picture of my old TrakPak in "view my pictures" shows the reservoir installed...looks like a factory installation.
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Old 06-23-2017, 04:23 PM   #10
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When the 11s dropped so many ppl laughed at longtime owners who got the automatics... hindsight is a fickle *****...
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Old 06-24-2017, 07:55 PM   #11
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The problem is the shifter, well known problem with this tranny. You have to get the MGW Race Spec, solid mount to tranny. I tried different brackets, bushings etc., nothing ever cured problem. MGW 1,000% better, no more missed shifts and overly thinking shifts, MGW way more intuitive.
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Old 06-25-2017, 06:22 AM   #12
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Yup the problem is in the shifter, the clutch line is not the problem believe me ive been thru this, I finally fixed it by putting in 1st gen mgw shifter with blowfish bracket, solid motor mounts from bmr, and semi solid tranny mount, and I can shift at any rpm's like butter, the clutch line is a must upgrade and also removing the helper spring.
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Old 06-27-2017, 08:05 PM   #13
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It's not just the shifter, I used the stock shifter with a Whiteline transmission mount and never had an issue shifting above 6500rpm...although the only time I would spin my TrakPak past 6500 was for tuning because the motor doesn't make any HP/TQ above that unless you modified the motor...I did however separate the clutch reservoir from the the brake reservoir which gives the clutch its own source of hydraulic fluid and that is part of the issue, along with the clutch/pressure plate and the plastic hydraulic line...if you had plastic brakes lines do you think you'd be able to stop...doubt it.
If you had mechanical linkage to the throw out bearing and the trans won't shift or locks you out as you call it...the diaphragm fingers on the pressure plate are not strong enough to return to meet the throw out bearing...inertia and centrifugal force are keeping the clutch from working.
The reason I had automatic drag cars for over 40 years...they just work better than a manual...IMHO
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Old 06-28-2017, 05:25 PM   #14
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Auto's are better and faster if all you do is go straight line 1/4 mile, But...I wouldnt own an auto in a 5.0, Manuals put you in control and on road courses or back road twisties the auto does not give you anything, if I am a few tenths slower by having a manual I can live with that..
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Old 06-28-2017, 05:45 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYN BRIAN View Post
Auto's are better and faster if all you do is go straight line 1/4 mile, But...I wouldnt own an auto in a 5.0, Manuals put you in control and on road courses or back road twisties the auto does not give you anything, if I am a few tenths slower by having a manual I can live with that..

Never drove a properly setup auto with a stall obviously.


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Old 06-28-2017, 11:16 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYN BRIAN View Post
Auto's are better and faster if all you do is go straight line 1/4 mile, But...I wouldnt own an auto in a 5.0, Manuals put you in control and on road courses or back road twisties the auto does not give you anything, if I am a few tenths slower by having a manual I can live with that..
Don't get me wrong, I really liked my 14 TrakPak but obviously you haven't done much if any drag racing nor driven a well setup automatic. One of the guys on this forum had a mildly mod'd Coyote with the exception of a good converter and turned 11.2 in the quarter...what can you manual do????
Although I have raced SCCA with a manual transmission my Mini in sport mode can probably give you a run for you money on twisty roads...with the six speed automatic.
Oh, buy the way...a couple of tenths in the quarter would mean you'd be watching someones tail lights...from three to four car lengths behind them most of the way down the 1320.
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Old 06-29-2017, 06:51 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olerodder View Post
One of the guys on this forum had a mildly mod'd Coyote with the exception of a good converter and turned 11.2 in the quarter...what can you manual do????
.
The problem is more than half of the dd manual people can't shift for **** on a track, or on the street, Youtube is a perfect example.
Get someone that can actually drive a stick vs an auto.


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Old 06-29-2017, 09:12 AM   #18
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Its much more about the entire driving experience vs. absolute numbers for me. I feel much more involved in driving my cars with manuals vs. autos. But then my Mustang is purely for pleasure driving and 80% on rural roads. My DD's are autos, don't like manuals for city driving.
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Old 06-30-2017, 09:11 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sns109 View Post
Its much more about the entire driving experience vs. absolute numbers for me. I feel much more involved in driving my cars with manuals vs. autos. But then my Mustang is purely for pleasure driving and 80% on rural roads. My DD's are autos, don't like manuals for city driving.
A properly geared Mustang is a joy to drive in the city...unless you are talking a city like L.A./Chicago/New York. My old 14 TrakPak with 3:73's was easy to drive in the city.
Anyone who has not drag raced or road raced has no idea about the entire driving experience...IMHO
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Old 06-30-2017, 10:10 AM   #20
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I am interested in trying out a modern automatic where you can shift them for yourself. From what I've read they are what I would like. A decent amount of control on two lane blacktop yet the ability to let the car do it for you when you are just commuting.
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Old 06-30-2017, 03:41 PM   #21
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I have had two cars with manual shift modes. Once the novelty of shifting it myself wore off I would just leave them in drive and let the tranny decide when to shift. After a year of ownership I had forgotten they even had the feature.
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Old 06-30-2017, 03:42 PM   #22
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Same with our Fusion and Edge.

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Old 06-30-2017, 10:21 PM   #23
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We currently have two vehicles in the garage with paddle shifters and Sport Mode. The six speed in the Mini Cooper S you can just push sport mode and the tranmission will use a higher RPM to shift and the shifts are a little harder depending on throttle location or you can shift it manually with the paddle shifters plus the transmission will shift down from sixth to 2nd quicker.
When carving mountain roads I use the paddle shifters in Sport mode, around town I just use Sport mode and leave it in D and when I'm on the highway I take it out of Sport mode and just let it shift normally.
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Old 07-01-2017, 01:06 PM   #24
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I've had a single car ever with manual shift mode. I used it once, was like "meh" and that's it. For a performance car with paddles it might be different but... I dunno. Same deal with drag racers tbth, there is the manual valve body crowd and it is pretty badass to slap the stick and have your neck snapped back but... again, the computer is going to be able to shift at literally the exact optimal point vs a person.

I for one welcome our machine overlords...
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Old 08-13-2019, 07:22 AM   #25
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I am also having this lockout issue on my 2013 GT. I am getting ready to replace the clutch soon and probably get the barton 2-post or MGW short throw. Do you guys have recommendations for a stock 5.0 with aspirations for forced induction (Supercharger) in a few years?
I'm currently running the stock clutch with about 118k miles on it - no problems slipping or anything but under load the car prevents me from shifting upwards of 6200 RPM (even sometimes as low as 5500 rpm...).

I've seen alot about the braided clutch line - how important is this upgrade for my application? Spirited driving and occasional drag strip time... I can't get my car to do better than a 14.06 in the 1/4 mile since I've been having these lockout issues that take at least a full second to overcome.
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:32 AM   #26
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Mastodon, I can state without equivocation that the McLeod RST with lightened flywheel and the MGW Race Spec will transform your car. The RST I have found is a little more noisy, probably gear rattle, as a result of not having sprung clutch discs. You need to keep the revs up a little for smooth engagement from a standing start, which may be partially due to the lightened steel flywheel. I believe the RST/flywheel saves nearly 5 pounds over the stock setup and it is noticeable. At speed, pushing my Boss hard, the shifts at redline are precise, with no hesitation or tendency to lockout. So worth it!!! You may consider due to the miles and forced induction plans, having Ben Calimer, the defacto Getrag Guru, go through your trans and upgrade all the internals to real parts instead of the plastic crap inside from the factory. I found their Stage 1 trans available, ready to go in, without a core for $1800. ,if you did not want to rebuild your stocker right now. I would have done mine when I installed all my goodies, but couldn't quite swing it as I had already spent about $5K including my Steeda upgrades. What amazing cars we have! No substitute for American muscle.
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Old 08-13-2019, 10:29 AM   #27
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clutch line, mgw race spec, aluminum spec fw and stage 3 clutch = BUTTER
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