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Old 12-09-2018, 10:57 PM   #36
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The only 427 side-oilers that made it into production cars were rated 390 HP which puts them right at 300 with the current SAE Net rating system. The higher HP versions were in factory race cars. The 427 SOHC was built for NASCAR and never made it into NASCAR or a street car.


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In 1961 and 1962 you could order a high performance 390 that had 375 bhp. In the trunk of the car was an intake manifold with three two barrel carburetors (six-pack), and a set of headers, which, when installed, pushed the horsepower to 401.
In 1963 the 406 engine equipped with the six-pack intake manifold made 405 hp.
The 390 horsepower 427 was the engine that granny ordered for her Galaxie to drive to church on Sunday.... And afterwards, to bingo. The 425 hp engines were available as an option from 1964 to 1967. It was the power plant for the 65-67 Shelby 427 Cobra and also found it's way into both Fairlanes and Marauders.
The 427 SOHC was never put into mass production because NASCAR changed the rules to ban the use of the Cammer. If it weren't for that rule change, we would have seen the 427 SOHC installed in various platforms.

Not sure what formula you are using to convert from brake horsepower to SAE.
Does 425 hp beat a four cylinder Ecoboost?
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Old 12-10-2018, 04:50 AM   #37
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Based on looking at HP ratings in 71 and then the same engine in 72/73 when the measurement system was changed to SAE Net the power number dropped by 1/3.

And I believe the cars that came with the 425 HP were factory race cars, not a car intended for street use.

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Old 12-10-2018, 04:55 AM   #38
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Bruins fan?

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Not really, I lost interest in professional baseball, football, basketball and hockey after all the strikes by the over paid babies.

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Old 12-10-2018, 07:09 AM   #39
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Baseball I get, football... like 5% of players make all the money and the rest of them have like 3 years and hope they don't have life altering injuries so I don't begrudge them trying to get all they can get with how much damn money that league makes... Drew Brees does not need to make $120M for 4 years or whatever nuts thing he has tho. Its not just him... anyway...

/rant...

/soapbox...

Anyway, horsepower ratings dropping like that are pretty cool, was not aware of that. And agreed with whoever said you take one of those 400rwhp muscle cars and put a modern suspension/tire setup on them and bet they drop a ****ton of time off their ET.
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Old 12-10-2018, 08:39 AM   #40
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In 1961 and 1962 you could order a high performance 390 that had 375 bhp. In the trunk of the car was an intake manifold with three two barrel carburetors (six-pack), and a set of headers, which, when installed, pushed the horsepower to 401.
In 1963 the 406 engine equipped with the six-pack intake manifold made 405 hp.
The 390 horsepower 427 was the engine that granny ordered for her Galaxie to drive to church on Sunday.... And afterwards, to bingo. The 425 hp engines were available as an option from 1964 to 1967. It was the power plant for the 65-67 Shelby 427 Cobra and also found it's way into both Fairlanes and Marauders.
The 427 SOHC was never put into mass production because NASCAR changed the rules to ban the use of the Cammer. If it weren't for that rule change, we would have seen the 427 SOHC installed in various platforms.

Not sure what formula you are using to convert from brake horsepower to SAE.
Does 425 hp beat a four cylinder Ecoboost?
In 1970 two of friends had the big block Fords, One had the 63 406 3-2 with 4spd Galaxie, the other had a 66 Fairlane c6 auto 390 GTA. The 63 was rated 405 and when he could get it to hook up with the tires we had back in 70s it would literally strain your neck at take off. Same thing with the 390. The 66 GTA would hook up better than the 406, smaller car-lighter with shorter wheel base. Just with better tires and trac control my bet is with the old big blocks, Damm the SAE hp ratings.
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Old 12-10-2018, 09:52 AM   #41
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FWIW, a friend of mine just picked up a 68 Firebird 400. Don't know what the internals of the engine are but it has an Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, Holley 770 carb, headers, some sort of high stall convertor, supposedly 390 gears (did not confirm) and a set of street legal drag radials.

The car runs very well but it is not as fast as my Ecoboost Mustang with the FP tune or my 360 Barracuda which runs mid/low 13s.

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Old 12-10-2018, 11:24 AM   #42
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but that V8 sound......even Mrs Mud will turn and listen/look at the right car. Any engine can sound good but V8's can sound good w/o even trying.


kinda on topic I was talking with buddy and he lamented how most modern cars don't smell like gasoline.
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Old 12-10-2018, 01:37 PM   #43
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Based on looking at HP ratings in 71 and then the same engine in 72/73 when the measurement system was changed to SAE Net the power number dropped by 1/3.

And I believe the cars that came with the 425 HP were factory race cars, not a car intended for street use.

Dave
When comparing numbers using that method, you need to look carefully at the specifications for each year of engines. Compression ratios started becoming drastically lower in the early 70's... With a corresponding drop in horsepower.
If I remember correctly, a 1970 Chevelle powered by a LS6 454 had 450 bhp and was rated around 350 SAE horsepower. That's a loss of about 22%.

Those were the "race" engines! The ones that the general public had access to anyway. The real racers got all of the REALLY cool stuff. Like the SOHC engines left over from the production run in anticipation of homologation into NASCAR. Or 550 bhp 427's like the ones that were installed in the Thunderbolts.
They probably weren't recommended for street use. Just like today, that didn't stop some people from ordering a "race car" for the street.
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Old 12-10-2018, 03:07 PM   #44
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That brings up another situation. My friend with the 406 could only run 101 octane and ran best with the Union 76 Purple gas or the Chevron Blue gas. I'm not sure he could run the new crap gas we have now. He would have to run our racing gas of today now. Not sure about the 390 hi-po. And oh man did that 3-2 406 smell good when he opened it up.
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Old 12-10-2018, 03:50 PM   #45
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That brings up another situation. My friend with the 406 could only run 101 octane and ran best with the Union 76 Purple gas or the Chevron Blue gas. I'm not sure he could run the new crap gas we have now. He would have to run our racing gas of today now. Not sure about the 390 hi-po. And oh man did that 3-2 406 smell good when he opened it up.
In 1963 the 406 had a 12.1:1 compression ratio. Sadly, I don't think that you could achieve full power with one on today's pump gas.
The 390 was 10.6:1 cr, so it may do a little better on pump gas.
425 horsepower 427's were typically 11.1:1 to 12:1 cr.
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Old 12-10-2018, 06:26 PM   #46
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My 430 Lincoln MEL was factory-rated at 490 lbs.-ft. of torque: we called it one-quarter of a foot-ton!
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Old 12-10-2018, 06:34 PM   #47
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They can always pipe in digital V-8 sound thru the sound system. BMW is already doing just that.
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Old 12-11-2018, 10:08 AM   #48
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Ford does it with the Ecoboost Mustang now. The Focus ST and Mustang GT have a sound tube that brings in engine sounds. There a lot of other companies doing it too

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Old 12-11-2018, 12:27 PM   #49
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The only sound you will get from an electric car will be WWWWWRRRRRRRR
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Old 12-11-2018, 08:20 PM   #50
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Well, wouldn't that be part of the allure of having a electric car?
I mean riding silently along, just enjoying the quiet drive....
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Old 12-12-2018, 11:44 AM   #51
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Watch the episode of the Grand Tour where they race and electric supercar vs 2 other gasoline ones. The electric one just curbstomps the other 2. Electric is the future, give it 10-20 years and we'll start seeing retrofits for cars we like but want to be electric

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Old 12-12-2018, 12:01 PM   #52
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Us "Old Guys" remember taking dads poker deck and moms clothes pins and putting them on our Schwinn Stingrays to sound like motorcycles roaring down the hi'way. Can't we do that with our Hybrid Stangs?
I told my son we used to do that and he a pretty good laugh at me lol.
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Old 12-12-2018, 12:12 PM   #53
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Watch the episode of the Grand Tour where they race and electric supercar vs 2 other gasoline ones. The electric one just curbstomps the other 2. Electric is the future, give it 10-20 years and we'll start seeing retrofits for cars we like but want to be electric
^Yup! Even though I'm not really interested in electric sports cars, I think it will be interesting to see.

I think if they do a Mustang hybrid, it will be seriously expensive. The first or second iteration maybe won't be as fast as the dino Mustang, but somewhere in there, it will become the top Mustang if the offerings. The question is, who will become the first manufacturer to totally eliminate the dinosaur powered sporty/pony car; Dodge, Chevy, or Ford?
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Old 12-12-2018, 04:32 PM   #54
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Got a question for Ya. How the hell do you shift a 6sp manual Mustang electric sports car?
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Old 12-12-2018, 04:52 PM   #55
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Got a question for Ya. How the hell do you shift a 6sp manual Mustang electric sports car?
Very, very quietly.....although you COULD hum along......
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Old 12-12-2018, 05:43 PM   #56
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Got a question for Ya. How the hell do you shift a 6sp manual Mustang electric sports car?
An electric Mustang will not have a transmission, won't need it.

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Old 12-12-2018, 07:13 PM   #57
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Dave's not here-
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Old 12-12-2018, 11:33 PM   #58
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An electric Mustang will not have a transmission, won't need it.

Dave
I do think that the first experiment with electrons in the Mustang will be a hybrid.....with a transmission.........and if Ford puts a CVT in the Mustang, I will NEVER forgive them....
When/if the ‘Stang does go full electric, you are correct that no transmission will be needed....only one long flat torque curve on demand under your right foot up to top speed!
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Old 12-13-2018, 05:35 AM   #59
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can't believe no one has mentioned that if you get a hybrid you'll gain instant torque but loose the V8 respect cred.


on the other forum I'm on someone mentioned a kid at his job never heard of a V12 engine.....I doubt I'll live that long but assume someone will never know V8's.
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Old 12-13-2018, 08:09 AM   #60
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Assume someone not knowing about piston driven transportation.
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Old 12-13-2018, 10:36 AM   #61
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^Yup! Even though I'm not really interested in electric sports cars, I think it will be interesting to see.

I think if they do a Mustang hybrid, it will be seriously expensive. The first or second iteration maybe won't be as fast as the dino Mustang, but somewhere in there, it will become the top Mustang if the offerings. The question is, who will become the first manufacturer to totally eliminate the dinosaur powered sporty/pony car; Dodge, Chevy, or Ford?
Since the CEO is an outspoken opponent of electric vehicles ,who has gone so far as to urge customers to NOT buy Fiat/Chrysler electric vehicles, I don't think that it will be a Chrysler product. They seem dead set on staying on top in the muscle car horsepower war.
That leaves the Mustang and the Camaro...
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Old 12-13-2018, 11:10 AM   #62
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Lemme see,
A four door electric powered MUSTANG.
Will someone just come and shoot me, PLEASE.
Ronnie

PS: Just kidding because I don't want to really be shot.
But, Some of you know what a mean.
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Old 12-13-2018, 12:57 PM   #63
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Lemme see,
A four door electric powered MUSTANG.
Will someone just come and shoot me, PLEASE.
Ronnie

PS: Just kidding because I don't want to really be shot.
But, Some of you know what a mean.
Now, add in an IC assist motor with a CVT.......BANG!
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Old 12-13-2018, 12:59 PM   #64
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Assume someone not knowing about piston driven transportation.
Add....”You mean you used to steer the car with your hands?”
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Old 12-14-2018, 04:32 AM   #65
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Very, very quietly.....although you COULD hum along......
Lol they'd just have to pipe in some engine sound so you could shift by ear. But likely there would be no stick shift option. CVT or the 10 speed ubertrans.

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can't believe no one has mentioned that if you get a hybrid you'll gain instant torque but loose the V8 respect cred.


on the other forum I'm on someone mentioned a kid at his job never heard of a V12 engine.....I doubt I'll live that long but assume someone will never know V8's.
I only ever heard V12s at car shows when I was little. And I'm not that old lol. As for losing cred... you get it back instantly when you put a bus length on whatever you are racing.

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Add....”You mean you used to steer the car with your hands?”
Driver assist is already here. I'd be willing to bet money it will be illegal or require a pretty involved test to manually drive a vehicle on public roads in 20-30 years.

Hell... there should be a pretty involved test now IMO... way too many idiots get to pilot 5,000lb hunks of metal down the road at 80mph with little to no training.
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Old 12-14-2018, 06:33 AM   #66
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Hell... there should be a pretty involved test now IMO... way too many idiots get to pilot 5,000lb hunks of metal down the road at 80mph with little to no training.
You should live in FLORIDA if you want to see REAL IDIOTS pretending they are driving a car.
You will be sitting at a red light, A car will be coming up so fast you won't believe they will stop. ( Slam Breaks at last second and do stop) just after your heart attach.

Next is the text while sitting at the red light, Light turns green and they just sit there until someone blows a horn. ( Too late because as they go through ) , The light turns red again.
GGGGGGRRRRRRRRR
Eating, Drinking their coffee, putting on makeup, reading the morning paper, texting, People doing everything except paying attention to their driving.
Oh, Leave a small safe space between you and the car in front of you and some idiot will always squeeze in and slow down.
Turning right on a red light is legal, BUT "STOP & LOOK FIRST) There are people that just don't do THAT.
Cut you off and slow down, Yes, They will come up to you on I-4 or I-95 and really come up fast on your back end, then cut close in front of you and slow down for absolutely "NO" reason at all.
Merge onto the interstate, "NOT EASY" The car in front of you slows almost to a stop instead of merging.
Oh, let me add the idiots that slow down to a crawl when you are going through the green light to allow you to be stuck in the intersection smiling for the red light camera.
Yes, Nothing like driving in FLORIDA
Ronnie
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