OK, IF the V8 is going away...2.5 to 60? - Mustang Evolution

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Old 12-07-2018, 12:14 PM   #1
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OK, IF the V8 is going away...2.5 to 60?

Ford has heavily hinted that the next Mustang is going to be available as a hybrid. I seriously doubt if the 5.0 can add the weight and complexity of batteries, electric motors etc. and remain competitive in the 0 to 60 sprint.
So, lets say that the 5.0 remains a 0 to 60 car of around 4.0 seconds in 2020......but sitting right across the showroom is a 4 cylinder Ecoboost Hybrid Mustang, 4WD, and capable of 0 to 60 in 2.5 seconds....and for thousands of $$’s less than the 5.0, AND offers 38 mpg in the city and 40 on the highway.....tempted yet?
I LOVE the sound of my 5.0, and I always remote start it as I walk behind it to get in just to hear it fire off — and do 2nd gear redline sprints in tunnels just to listen to it. But I would be quite realistically tempted to go for the incredible acceleration of the hybrid Mustang — instant torque off the line (no waiting for 4,700 rpm for ALL of the torque!).....but I would miss the V8 soundtrack.....my wife says “no way, stick to the V8 soundtrack!!!”
What say you all?
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Old 12-07-2018, 05:04 PM   #2
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i say your wife sounds hot....
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Old 12-07-2018, 06:31 PM   #3
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So, lets say that the 5.0 remains a 0 to 60 car of around 4.0 seconds in 2020......but sitting right across the showroom is a 4 cylinder Ecoboost Hybrid Mustang, 4WD, and capable of 0 to 60 in 2.5 seconds....and for thousands of $$’s less than the 5.0, AND offers 38 mpg in the city and 40 on the highway.....tempted yet?
I am at a loss......even with AWD, how are these vehicles able to do 0-60 in only a few seconds without seriously smoking the tires? Or maybe they do?
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Old 12-07-2018, 07:00 PM   #4
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I am at a loss......even with AWD, how are these vehicles able to do 0-60 in only a few seconds without seriously smoking the tires? Or maybe they do?
Computers today are able to keep the tires right at the point of traction/no traction....listen to a YouTube of a Tesla in ludicrous mode doing that crazy 0 to 60 sprint, and you’ll hear tire squeal, but no actual spinning of the tire.....their new roadster does that same thing, but IN 1.9 SECONDS!!!!
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Old 12-07-2018, 07:04 PM   #5
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Awww what the hell.... Humming along in a electric car might be fun for a change.

But only if it's as good of a deal as you say it is Guard.
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Old 12-07-2018, 07:09 PM   #6
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I am at a loss......even with AWD, how are these vehicles able to do 0-60 in only a few seconds without seriously smoking the tires? Or maybe they do?
It's all very complicated... It has to do with reaction times, horsepower and torque ratios, available friction, things of that nature.

None of us really completely understand it either.
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Old 12-07-2018, 07:11 PM   #7
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Awww what the hell.... Humming along in a electric car might be fun for a change.

But only if it's as good of a deal as you say it is Guard.
I drove a hybrid Fusion as a rental car last year, and it does have its own fascination. You press the start button and.....nothing.....except a message on the dash that tells you the vehicle is ready to drive.....completely silently pulling out of the parking lot and up to speed before the IC motor kicks in 20 or so miles later brought a smile to my face every time.....got 53 mpg in the time I had it too......
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Old 12-07-2018, 07:42 PM   #8
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It's difficult to argue about the performance and economy potential that it would have.

Just not sure if I would be willing to plunk down the change for the opportunity to be one of Ford's first "guinea pigs" for their new Mustang drivetrain.... What with their century long tradition of letting their customers do the durability testing on all of their new platforms, and all.
I wonder how much it will cost to replace the batteries in 5-6 years?
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Old 12-07-2018, 07:57 PM   #9
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It's difficult to argue about the performance and economy potential that it would have.

Just not sure if I would be willing to plunk down the change for the opportunity to be one of Ford's first "guinea pigs" for their new Mustang drivetrain.... What with their century long tradition of letting their customers do the durability testing on all of their new platforms, and all.
I wonder how much it will cost to replace the batteries in 5-6 years?
Hybrid batteries aren’t known to be as horrendously expensive as full electric battery packs, but still.......battery deterioration in capacity, replacement cost and recycling concerns are the great unknowns if the industry goes full electric....but this is just NUTS!:

The current list price of a Bolt EV HV battery pack is $15,734.29 and the part number is 24285978. I do get a kick out of the .29 cents part....cute, Chevy!
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Old 12-08-2018, 11:36 AM   #10
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I am at a loss......even with AWD, how are these vehicles able to do 0-60 in only a few seconds without seriously smoking the tires? Or maybe they do?
The Challenger Demon does 0 to 60 in 2.3 seconds with RWD. Of course it comes with street legal drag radials. And I am sure the non limited production 2019 Challenger Redeye with 797HP will dip into the 2s too.

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Old 12-08-2018, 11:46 AM   #11
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The Challenger Demon does 0 to 60 in 2.3 seconds with RWD. Of course it comes with street legal drag radials. And I am sure the non limited production 2019 Challenger Redeye with 797HP will dip into the 2s too.

Dave
We really are in a magic age right now for performance. The “muscle cars” of the late 60’s and early 70’s that are so romanticized for their performance were generally lucky to do the 0 to 60 sprint in anything less than 6 or 7 seconds, admittedly, usually tire limited.
I’d really like to see some of them retested, retrofitted with modern tires, .......and here’s a real dream...traction control? I’ll bet most of them could cut their time to 60 in about half......
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Old 12-08-2018, 12:19 PM   #12
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I like the part where you say "for thousands less." Is that with or without the government subsidizing the car?
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Old 12-08-2018, 01:51 PM   #13
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I like the part where you say "for thousands less." Is that with or without the government subsidizing the car?
Hey, it’s my fantasy, OK......I do know that it is extremely unlikely that the 4WD, turbo, dual electric motor hybrid could be brought to market for less than the GT.....but the hybrid Fusion does sell for less than some of the other versions, so just daydreaming here......
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Old 12-08-2018, 04:04 PM   #14
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All speculation and I doubt it'll be hybrid. If anything it'll be the 3.5L TT and a 5.0 as the GT choices with a probable upgraded 4 banger as well.

Also why in hell would it be AWD?
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Old 12-08-2018, 04:24 PM   #15
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All speculation and I doubt it'll be hybrid. If anything it'll be the 3.5L TT and a 5.0 as the GT choices with a probable upgraded 4 banger as well.

Also why in hell would it be AWD?
Well, if the electric motor is not part of the flywheel system as in some hybrids, it is then very easy to put a small electric motor on each front wheel and use the computers to apportion rpm and torque in the best way for handling, using the IC engine to drive the rear wheels.....
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Old 12-08-2018, 05:23 PM   #16
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My problem is this.
I'm 75 years old with a 16 year old brain.
I don't care if the hybrid cars are extremely fast, Drive themselves or get 500 MPG.
I still like the combustion engines and not about to buy a sewing machine just because it goes 0 to 150 in 3 seconds.
I'll just be keeping my 2012 MCA for a long, long time.
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Old 12-08-2018, 06:16 PM   #17
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Us "Old Guys" remember taking dads poker deck and moms clothes pins and putting them on our Schwinn Stingrays to sound like motorcycles roaring down the hi'way. Can't we do that with our Hybrid Stangs?
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Old 12-08-2018, 06:26 PM   #18
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Us "Old Guys" remember taking dads poker deck and moms clothes pins and putting them on our Schwinn Stingrays to sound like motorcycles roaring down the hi'way. Can't we do that with our Hybrid Stangs?
I think that the modern equivalent of that is feeding VROOOM engine noises over the stereo speakers of the car.....many already do that.......
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Old 12-08-2018, 06:31 PM   #19
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Then we just need to put speakers on the outside of the car! Just think, if we want that big cam sound or the blower whine, easy man!
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Old 12-08-2018, 09:02 PM   #20
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All speculation and I doubt it'll be hybrid. If anything it'll be the 3.5L TT and a 5.0 as the GT choices with a probable upgraded 4 banger as well.

Also why in hell would it be AWD?
Snow, maybe?
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Old 12-08-2018, 09:41 PM   #21
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So I don’t care what the motor is, as long as it’s fast! As an Industrial Engineer putting electric motors and batteries in a 550 shouldn’t be too hard, all wheel drive; you bet cha!!
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Old 12-09-2018, 07:31 AM   #22
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Us "Old Guys" remember taking dads poker deck and moms clothes pins and putting them on our Schwinn Stingrays to sound like motorcycles roaring down the hi'way. Can't we do that with our Hybrid Stangs?
We sure did!!


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Old 12-09-2018, 07:32 AM   #23
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Us "Old Guys" remember taking dads poker deck and moms clothes pins and putting them on our Schwinn Stingrays to sound like motorcycles roaring down the hi'way. Can't we do that with our Hybrid Stangs?
We sure did!! I think a few kids even used balloons.


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Old 12-09-2018, 07:42 AM   #24
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.
I’d really like to see some of them retested, retrofitted with modern tires, .......and here’s a real dream...traction control? I’ll bet most of them could cut their time to 60 in about half......
Actually there is a racing series called Pure Stock that requires vehicles to be just as they could have been optioned from the factory. The fast muscle cars are running mid to high 11s.

There is another series called FAST (Factory Appearing Stock Tire). These cars can have bored, stroked and cammed engines but must use factory carbs, exhaust manifolds and the cam has to produce a stock like idle. The fastest cars typically have a 500+ cid engines and treated stock size bias ply tires. The fastest of these cars dip into the 9s.


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Old 12-09-2018, 08:38 AM   #25
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Actually there is a racing series called Pure Stock that requires vehicles to be just as they could have been optioned from the factory. The fast muscle cars are running mid to high 11s.

There is another series called FAST (Factory Appearing Stock Tire). These cars can have bored, stroked and cammed engines but must use factory carbs, exhaust manifolds and the cam has to produce a stock like idle. The fastest cars typically have a 500+ cid engines and treated stock size bias ply tires. The fastest of these cars dip into the 9s.


Dave
Makes sense, as many of them were in the 400 to 500 HP range back then, but with Goodyear Polyglass tires about 10 inches wide......can’t imagine how hard launching them was and maintaining traction through 1st and 2nd gears.....
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Old 12-09-2018, 09:17 AM   #26
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I had a set of BUCRON cheater slicks on my 66 427 corvette and a bill Jenkins tuned and modified engine and it ran 10.88 at 143 mph at Cecil county drag strip.
As far as my street racing went, I could not find many that would run me for $$$$ after I beat everything a ran against.
After I did my only run at the drag strip, I could not run again unless I installed a roll bar,
It was one fun car and I wish I had it now.
Moral of this story is NEVER GET MARRIED IF YOU WANT TO KEEP YOUR CAR)

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Old 12-09-2018, 09:53 AM   #27
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Makes sense, as many of them were in the 400 to 500 HP range back then, but with Goodyear Polyglass tires about 10 inches wide......can’t imagine how hard launching them was and maintaining traction through 1st and 2nd gears.....
Actually almost no engines from the muscle car era made 400 to 500 HP when measuring by the SAE Net measurement system manufactuers are required to use today.

Most of the big block engines from the muscle car era when measured by today's methods actually made 250 to 300 HP. No Ford v8s from the muscle car era made as much power as the 2.3 Ecoboost motor.

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Old 12-09-2018, 10:59 AM   #28
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I had a set of BUCRON cheater slicks on my 66 427 corvette and a bill Jenkins tuned and modified engine and it ran 10.88 at 143 mph at Cecil county drag strip.
As far as my street racing went, I could not find many that would run me for $$$$ after I beat everything a ran against.
After I did my only run at the drag strip, I could not run again unless I installed a roll bar,
It was one fun car and I wish I had it now.
Moral of this story is NEVER GET MARRIED IF YOU WANT TO KEEP YOUR CAR)

Ronnie
Still have both my Trans Ams after getting married and even added the Mustang afterwards. Just have to find the right woman.


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Old 12-09-2018, 11:08 AM   #29
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I can't complain because I "WAS" married for 7 years,
IT WAS TWO of the HAPPIEST YEARS OF MY LIFE
2 out of 7 wasn't bad.
Ronnie

---------- Post added at 12:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 PM ----------

I can't complain because I "WAS" married for 7 years,
IT WAS TWO of the HAPPIEST YEARS OF MY LIFE
2 out of 7 wasn't bad.
Ronnie
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Old 12-09-2018, 11:09 AM   #30
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I love it.
Push button once and send same thing twice.
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Old 12-09-2018, 11:36 AM   #31
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Actually almost no engines from the muscle car era made 400 to 500 HP when measuring by the SAE Net measurement system manufactuers are required to use today.

Most of the big block engines from the muscle car era when measured by today's methods actually made 250 to 300 HP. No Ford v8s from the muscle car era made as much power as the 2.3 Ecoboost motor.

Dave
You are correct that many of the engines from the 60's-70's muscle car era were not as powerful as modern engines. There were still plenty that were more powerful though. Unlike today, the engine models back then could be optioned in a lot of different configurations. Not every 'muscle car' of the era was optioned with the most powerful engine.
As far as Ford engines go, a 427 FE side-oiler made more horsepower, even corrected, than the 2.3 Ecoboost does. And torque. Don't forget about the torque!
Although it was pretty rare, the Ford 427 SOHC engine was capable of 500+ corrected hp, without even breaking a sweat.
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Old 12-09-2018, 01:59 PM   #32
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.
As far as Ford engines go, a 427 FE side-oiler made more horsepower, even corrected, than the 2.3 Ecoboost does. And torque. Don't forget about the torque!
Although it was pretty rare, the Ford 427 SOHC engine was capable of 500+ corrected hp, without even breaking a sweat.
The only 427 side-oilers that made it into production cars were rated 390 HP which puts them right at 300 with the current SAE Net rating system. The higher HP versions were in factory race cars. The 427 SOHC was built for NASCAR and never made it into NASCAR or a street car.


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Old 12-09-2018, 02:28 PM   #33
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The only 427 side-oilers that made it into production cars were rated 390 HP which puts them right at 300 with the current SAE Net rating system. The higher HP versions were in factory race cars. The 427 SOHC was built for NASCAR and never made it into NASCAR or a street car.


Dave
Insurance rates were KILLING those muscle cars back then, so many of them were WAY underrated from the factory as to their HP levels......
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Old 12-09-2018, 03:19 PM   #34
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Based on trap speeds of the muscle cars that we're lighter than an Ecoboost Mustang they were not under rated by much.

I know people love to say they were under rated but they really weren't. I have lived in the Boston area my whole life, insurance rates weren't a factor either.



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Old 12-09-2018, 09:07 PM   #35
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Based on trap speeds of the muscle cars that we're lighter than an Ecoboost Mustang they were not under rated by much.

I know people love to say they were under rated but they really weren't. I have lived in the Boston area my whole life, insurance rates weren't a factor either.



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