Mustang Evolution Forum banner

21 - 40 of 89 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
630 Posts
Discussion Starter #21
I just don't see how ppl can just throw money away like that. Senseless to me.
How is that throwing money away? Yes, I dynoed it to blow it up the next week on purpose. Like wtf lol

---------- Post added at 04:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:18 PM ----------

it's EASY !! just make more :)

---------- Post added at 04:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:31 PM ----------

08mustanggt

as the racing season is over I would consider selling my engine... rated to handle over 1000 HP reliably :) you could put your turbo on full blast and be full throttle again in 1 week :)
Is it a just a forged 4.6 or stroked? And same 3v engine or 5.4? Lastly, how much are you asking?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Possible? What is needed?
Funny you should ask. I just did a cost/parts list evaluation for that very swap.

Pushrod swap into s197

Keep in mind that I'm starting with a 2012 V6/auto car, and the cost/parts list is for swapping both the motor and trans. Assuming all new parts are used, expect $25k, including shipping and 3rd-party fabrication (if any is needed).

I also looked into the option of building my own long block, and the cost is about the same as buying a crate motor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
351 swap in S197

New to this forum but I have done the 351W swap in a 2007 GT. Not too bad, cross member mod, one piece driveline, carbureted, aftermarket gauges. Let me know if I can answer any questions for you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
274 Posts
Kaase put a BB in his 2008. Motor mounts and headers were custom but worked out OK. Carb deal. Everything else is factory, works fine. If anyone is thinking a GM engine keep in mind that the shifter is located about 8" different from the stock location. Maybe Shelby38 could clue us in on the dash/electronics mods with his swap. How about a photo? Seriously, How about a Kaase 427 small block with EFI and P38 heads? Damn OBDII crap.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
351 swap in S197

It is possible to keep the complete brake system and the power steering. My purpose was for drag strip only use so I opted to not keep the power steering and I used Aerospace drag brakes on mine.

There is a company that makes a billet cross member to fit most popular transmission choices for the swap, I'll try to find a link to it for you.

BMR makes a K member for this application I used the KM012 (link below).

2005 - 2014 Mustang GT Chassis | K-Members | BMR Suspension Products & Parts

You should be able to use your stock gauges for way less than $1200 but if you are into doing something custom the large tack and speedo's slip nicely into the stock bezels and look pretty cool.


jsimmonstx I will send you an email so you have my addy for side discussion if needed. I'm in Washington state.

I am happy to help however I can but since I wasn't trying to keep mine on the street there will be some things I won't have answers for. I did find another guy who swapped a stroked 351W that made (and sells) a video of his project. I finished my swap last year but bought the video last week just to see if there was any info that would help me, I paid $25 with shipping. That guy gave a list of the parts he used for his swap.

I have tons of pics and notes but haven't taken the time to document it properly yet so probably better if I just answer questions about it to start with.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Kaase put a BB in his 2008. Motor mounts and headers were custom but worked out OK. Carb deal. Everything else is factory, works fine. If anyone is thinking a GM engine keep in mind that the shifter is located about 8" different from the stock location. Maybe Shelby38 could clue us in on the dash/electronics mods with his swap. How about a photo? Seriously, How about a Kaase 427 small block with EFI and P38 heads? Damn OBDII crap.
Shelby38 said he has aftermarket gauges, and I'm assuming he is including the tach in that statement. The shop that's gonna do my swap said I could use a reluctor between the balancer and the pulley and just use the crank sensor already in the car for a tach signal.

I have an additional concern regarding the EPAS in the 2012 cars. Will I be able to keep it, or do I have to change over to a manual steering rack? Will ABS still work? Can I use my OEM A/C compressor? What headers did Shelby38 use? How did he hook up the gas pedal?

I should be able to keep my OEM K-member, and FRPP makes a set of motor mounts for this swap. The only fab question involves the transmission cross member.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
I fabbed my own Transmission cross member but you can buy one from Evolution performance(link below).

Evolution Performance, Inc. Billet Aluminum Crossmember [EVO-CM] - $275.00 : Evolution Performance, Performance Parts & Accessories - Ford Mustang & Shelby Experts

I used the gas pedal and cable from an early 80's fox body (carb car), the cable was the perfect length and the pedal fit nicely with a small mod to the bracket. Clean and cheap. I can get you pics later if needed. There are also several aftermarket gas pedal setups with throttle cables designed for street rod/generic applications.


I originally used a MAC shorty header for 351W in a fox body that I had left over from a previous 351W/Fox swap. They fit nicely in fact so nicely that I was able to drop the motor/trany in with the headers on (I can provide pics if needed). I have found so far that many of the 351W/fox headers will fit the S197 as long as you use a shorty or mid length that hugs the block on the drivers side. I have a set of BBK equal length shorties that will not fit. I tried a few sets of 351W/fox full length headers that I have hanging around and found that any set that wrapped around the steering shaft on the fox will not fit the S197 due to steering shaft/frame clearances.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
274 Posts
Shelby38 your car is awesome. Kudos. I think there is a massive market waiting to start swapping engines into the S197.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Black12 thanks for the kind words. I agree with you on the potential market. It seems like you usually see a few guys who do swaps like this on the new models when they first come out but once they reach the 5-8 yr old mark is when you really start seeing guys make the hard core mods.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
274 Posts
Shelby38 True, it's definitely time! That's why I bought this 2012 V6 model! I want to keep the cars air bags, abs, dash, etc. running off the stock ECM but.....run the engine off a Holley or FAST efi system or?, regardless of engine type. The OBDII system is the fly in the ointment. Jon Kaase has a BB in his 08 and everything on the car works like factory but he's also carbureted. The OBDII deal would keep me off the street legally. Some kind of interface is available to interpret the signals to the ECM and NOT kick out a code. On page 20 of Greg Banish' book on FI systems he states "A popular choice is to install a piggyback controller that intercepts and modifies the signals going to and from the factory ECU", If I had this technology I'd be all over this. I need something to satisfy the stock ECM so that it won't flag the OBDII. Then, it's new engine time. Thanks for the feedback.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Shelby38 True, it's definitely time! That's why I bought this 2012 V6 model! I want to keep the cars air bags, abs, dash, etc. running off the stock ECM but.....run the engine off a Holley or FAST efi system or?, regardless of engine type. The OBDII system is the fly in the ointment. Jon Kaase has a BB in his 08 and everything on the car works like factory but he's also carbureted. The OBDII deal would keep me off the street legally. Some kind of interface is available to interpret the signals to the ECM and NOT kick out a code. On page 20 of Greg Banish' book on FI systems he states "A popular choice is to install a piggyback controller that intercepts and modifies the signals going to and from the factory ECU", If I had this technology I'd be all over this. I need something to satisfy the stock ECM so that it won't flag the OBDII. Then, it's new engine time. Thanks for the feedback.
The way I got it figured is a well-built 408 stroker (roller block, forged crank/rods, AFR heads, QuickFuel 850cfm carb, and MSD ignition) will run you about $8-10k. If you're gonna do this, why bother with EFI (expense and hassle)? The whole point is to go old school and build a motor you don't have to pay someone to tune for you.

I want to keep the stock stuff too, but I'm not married to any of it. I drove cars for a long time without that crap, and I figure I can do it again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Shelby38 True, it's definitely time! That's why I bought this 2012 V6 model! I want to keep the cars air bags, abs, dash, etc. running off the stock ECM but.....run the engine off a Holley or FAST efi system or?, regardless of engine type. The OBDII system is the fly in the ointment. Jon Kaase has a BB in his 08 and everything on the car works like factory but he's also carbureted. The OBDII deal would keep me off the street legally. Some kind of interface is available to interpret the signals to the ECM and NOT kick out a code. On page 20 of Greg Banish' book on FI systems he states "A popular choice is to install a piggyback controller that intercepts and modifies the signals going to and from the factory ECU", If I had this technology I'd be all over this. I need something to satisfy the stock ECM so that it won't flag the OBDII. Then, it's new engine time. Thanks for the feedback.
The way I got it figured is a well-built 408 stroker (roller block, forged crank/rods, AFR heads, QuickFuel 850cfm carb, and MSD ignition) will run you about $8-10k. If you're gonna do this, why bother with EFI (expense and hassle)? The whole point is to go old school and build a motor you don't have to pay someone to tune for you.

I want to keep the stock stuff too, but I'm not married to any of it. I drove cars for a long time without that crap, and I figure I can do it again.

I've attached an image of the car my swap is going into.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
I fabbed my own Transmission cross member but you can buy one from Evolution performance(link below).

Evolution Performance, Inc. Billet Aluminum Crossmember [EVO-CM] - $275.00 : Evolution Performance, Performance Parts & Accessories - Ford Mustang & Shelby Experts

I used the gas pedal and cable from an early 80's fox body (carb car), the cable was the perfect length and the pedal fit nicely with a small mod to the bracket. Clean and cheap. I can get you pics later if needed. There are also several aftermarket gas pedal setups with throttle cables designed for street rod/generic applications.


I originally used a MAC shorty header for 351W in a fox body that I had left over from a previous 351W/Fox swap. They fit nicely in fact so nicely that I was able to drop the motor/trany in with the headers on (I can provide pics if needed). I have found so far that many of the 351W/fox headers will fit the S197 as long as you use a shorty or mid length that hugs the block on the drivers side. I have a set of BBK equal length shorties that will not fit. I tried a few sets of 351W/fox full length headers that I have hanging around and found that any set that wrapped around the steering shaft on the fox will not fit the S197 due to steering shaft/frame clearances.
The shop that's gonna do my swap for me has a 408 sitting on an engine stand with BBK long tubes on it that's going into a Fox. The tubes are exactly as you describe on the driver's side - hugs the block and does not have the weird bend on the front tube to accommodate the steering shaft. I'll see if I can't get a part number from the shop. That might be the answer to your long-tube search. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
For the record, I'm willing to setup a web page dedicated to info regarding S197 351w swaps. As I discover info, I can post it there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Shelby38 True, it's definitely time! That's why I bought this 2012 V6 model!
I have a 2012 as well, and the EPAS (electric power steering) is going to be the thing I want to keep if possible. If it's not possible, there's a manual steering rack available from Flaming River (made for the S197 Mustangs), or I could just put a 2005-10 hydraulic rack in the car - it costs about $750 if you buy the parts new from Ford, but it really uglies up the engine bay and gives you one more thing that could leak.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
I just found out there's a shop in houston that did a 427ci stroker swap into 2005 Mustang, and they selling a video that describes the process and lists part numbers so you can do the same thing. The video is $28 shipped (part number is HP-38), and the seller's name is "ezsautomotive". There are a couple of youtube videos of the car in questions - just search for "2005 mustang 427ci swap", and you should find three videos.

I ordered the how-to video. At the very least, it will list the headers he used and if that keeps me from having to buy headers a 2nd time, it's worth the $28.
 
21 - 40 of 89 Posts
Top