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Ew, just googled those. Yup, I have to admit I really didn't think about competing against Focus if they made it smaller. Good point.

Hopefully, being able to add mods will continue in the future. Seems like it would as it is such a big market.
The shame was that they were really mod friendly, and the Duratec V6 was pretty solid. They used a 2.5L, but there was a 3.0L variant used in the Contour SVT (Cougar, Contour and Mystique all shared the same platform btw) that was a straight drop in since it was the same block. Variants of that engine were used by some Jags too.

The car had potential, but they kept it gimped because it would have competed with the Mustang for much less money. Even though the V6 was only putting out like 170HP, keep in mind the Mustang GT was only putting down 260HP. The 3.0L duratec from the CSVT was over 200HP in a smaller, lighter platform and there were a few guys running turbo setups pushing 400FWHP. The were kicking the crap out of stangs on the strip.
 

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I like how everyone is saying that this is going to "ruin" the Mustang. Do you all remember the Mustang II and the Fox Mustangs? How is this going to "ruin" it more than those turdballs did?

The fact of the matter is that Ford realizes that they have to appeal to the younger generations and the global marketplace. That is the way of things now, you can't build a car to cater to a niche market and sell it for $35k.

I'm not just pulling this out of my ass either, lets look at the Mustang sales numbers source: wikipedia

Calendar Year American sales
1999 166,915
2000 113,369
2001 169,198
2002 138,356
2003 140,350
2004 129,858
2005 160,975
2006 166,530
2007 134,626
2008 91,251
2009 66,623
2010 73,716
2011 70,438

People are tired of the retro styling and it does not appeal to the masses. Sales actually dropped with the introduction of the more powerful engines in 2011, following a departure from the retro styling in 2010 which increased sales. I think you can fill in the blanks here.

Also, the Coyote and Cyclone aren't going anywhere, but I'm not shocked at all that we are seing an ecoboost 4cy being introduced. Besides, it's not like this is the first four cylinder mustang.
Good info, but a couple of points if I may.


1. The Fox Mustangs heralded the return of performance to the Mustang lineup even as insignificant as it appears to be now and they had and still enjoy a pretty significant following, so I wouldn't compare them to the Mustang II.


2. Toward the end of the list you made, the Camaro and Challenger also returned to pull some sales away from the Mustang, so that at least slightly skews the numbers shown.


I think when most people (myself included) say it is going to "ruin the Mustang", what they really mean is that it is going to ruin it in their eyes and opinion. I'm sure we all understand "why" Ford is doing it, we are just stating our personal opinion about it.
All that remains is to see if Ford "gets it right" or "misinterprets the market". Only time will tell for sure. :good:
 

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Trojan Horse said:
Good info, but a couple of points if I may.

1. The Fox Mustangs heralded the return of performance to the Mustang lineup even as insignificant as it appears to be now and they had and still enjoy a pretty significant following, so I wouldn't compare them to the Mustang II.

2. Toward the end of the list you made, the Camaro and Challenger also returned to pull some sales away from the Mustang, so that at least slightly skews the numbers shown.

I think when most people (myself included) say it is going to "ruin the Mustang", what they really mean is that it is going to ruin it in their eyes and opinion. I'm sure we all understand "why" Ford is doing it, we are just stating our personal opinion about it.
All that remains is to see if Ford "gets it right" or "misinterprets the market". Only time will tell for sure. :good:
Well said. The competition is there so we should have faith in the blue oval.

Love the fox bodies! :D I'd still like to have a Mustang II as a daily beater.
 

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Good info, but a couple of points if I may.


1. The Fox Mustangs heralded the return of performance to the Mustang lineup even as insignificant as it appears to be now and they had and still enjoy a pretty significant following, so I wouldn't compare them to the Mustang II.


2. Toward the end of the list you made, the Camaro and Challenger also returned to pull some sales away from the Mustang, so that at least slightly skews the numbers shown.


I think when most people (myself included) say it is going to "ruin the Mustang", what they really mean is that it is going to ruin it in their eyes and opinion. I'm sure we all understand "why" Ford is doing it, we are just stating our personal opinion about it.
All that remains is to see if Ford "gets it right" or "misinterprets the market". Only time will tell for sure. :good:
A couple counterpoints.

1. The Fox is ugly as sin. This is about aesthetics as the 2015 Mustang is going to be the same or better in the performance department (much better if you like to turn). Everyone is complaining about the looks, I would rather own that thing over a Mustang II or a Fox.

2. Completely invalid since they didn't stop selling the Camaro until 2002 and these numbers go back to 1999. By your logic, we should have seen a large increase in 03-09, but we did not. I don't think that Camaro buyers were picking up Mustangs for six years and then as soon as they found out they were making the Camaro, sold them and stopped buying the Mustang. Furthermore, Mustang sales increased in 2010, the year of the Camaro. This defies your logic, but also marks the redesign and beginning of the departure from the retro theme.

---------- Post added at 06:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:09 PM ----------

One final point, this forum represents a vast minority of the totality of Mustang owners. There are 23058 registered users, and if 1/3 of those are active I would be shocked. I'll give you a possible 10,000 people represented here. Ford is selling nearly that many Mustangs each month, and I'm sure that they have done extensive research on the market and determined that the cries of a few enthusiasts do not come close to outweighing the desires and demands of the broader global market.
 

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A couple counterpoints.

1. The Fox is ugly as sin. This is about aesthetics as the 2015 Mustang is going to be the same or better in the performance department (much better if you like to turn). Everyone is complaining about the looks, I would rather own that thing over a Mustang II or a Fox.

2. Completely invalid since they didn't stop selling the Camaro until 2002 and these numbers go back to 1999. By your logic, we should have seen a large increase in 03-09, but we did not. I don't think that Camaro buyers were picking up Mustangs for six years and then as soon as they found out they were making the Camaro, sold them and stopped buying the Mustang. Furthermore, Mustang sales increased in 2010, the year of the Camaro. This defies your logic, but also marks the redesign and beginning of the departure from the retro theme.
---------- Post added at 06:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:09 PM ----------
One final point, this forum represents a vast minority of the totality of Mustang owners. There are 23058 registered users, and if 1/3 of those are active I would be shocked. I'll give you a possible 10,000 people represented here. Ford is selling nearly that many Mustangs each month, and I'm sure that they have done extensive research on the market and determined that the cries of a few enthusiasts do not come close to outweighing the desires and demands of the broader global market.
:lol: Ok, ok, but all you are doing is expressing your opinion. All I'm saying is that everyone has an opinion, they are entitled to them and they differ. Only time will tell who's opinion is closest to being correct.


I wasn't trying for logic at all, just stating the fact that the Mustang lost some buyers to the Camaro & Challenger when they reappeared in the market. :confused:


Anyways, to me the changes guessed at above are not to my liking, that's just my personal opinion, it doesn't mean that anyone has to agree with me. :good:
 

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Imo the sales increase and decrease are mostly impacted by the economy. Between the decrease from 911 and the more recent larger decrease from the last recession.
Good point, I hadn't even thought of that. :good:
 

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There are a few ppl on ME that have had a Camaro before. I had an 84 Z28 back in the day, which was my favorite gen of Camaro. When the 87 GT came out, I fell in love. If there was no Mustang to be had, I would be snooping around the Dodge and Chevy lots for a sporty/muscle car. When you have more to choose from, the favs will win out. :)
 

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There are a few ppl on ME that have had a Camaro before. I had an 84 Z28 back in the day, which was my favorite gen of Camaro. When the 87 GT came out, I fell in love. If there was no Mustang to be had, I would be snooping around the Dodge and Chevy lots for a sporty/muscle car. When you have more to choose from, the favs will win out. :)
If there were no more mustangs to be had, I would be looking for a BMW M3, 370Z, EVO, or just about any damn thing but a Camaro or Challenger. The only GM car that I would have considered was the G8 or GTO, but they killed both of them. The Camaro is junk (imo) and the Challenger needs a diet, there are much better cars to be had in my book.
 

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Napoleon85 said:
If there were no more mustangs to be had, I would be looking for a BMW M3, 370Z, EVO, or just about any damn thing but a Camaro or Challenger. The only GM car that I would have considered was the G8 or GTO, but they killed both of them. The Camaro is junk (imo) and the Challenger needs a diet, there are much better cars to be had in my book.
I'm not why they killed the G8. This seemed to fit right I'm with what ppl wanted. Maybe I'm wrong, but it is a nice ride. The GTO was made by an Australian car co. that GM basically purchased, wasn't it?
 

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Azure said:
I'm not why they killed the G8. This seemed to fit right I'm with what ppl wanted. Maybe I'm wrong, but it is a nice ride. The GTO was made by an Australian car co. that GM basically purchased, wasn't it?
Holden. Yes. The g8 was made there too
 

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I am not all that partial to GM but the G8 was a pretty bad ass car, perfect for the guy that has a family and can still have some balls under the hood. I wish ford would come out with a muscle car with four doors.
 

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MedicDave said:
I am not all that partial to GM but the G8 was a pretty bad ass car, perfect for the guy that has a family and can still have some balls under the hood. I wish ford would come out with a muscle car with four doors.
They have the Taurus SHO, but not quite the balls of a G8. Plus, v6 sound :(
 

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Napoleon85 said:
I like how everyone is saying that this is going to "ruin" the Mustang. Do you all remember the Mustang II and the Fox Mustangs? How is this going to "ruin" it more than those turdballs did?

The fact of the matter is that Ford realizes that they have to appeal to the younger generations and the global marketplace. That is the way of things now, you can't build a car to cater to a niche market and sell it for $35k.

I'm not just pulling this out of my ass either, lets look at the Mustang sales numbers source: wikipedia

Calendar Year American sales
1999 166,915
2000 113,369
2001 169,198
2002 138,356
2003 140,350
2004 129,858
2005 160,975
2006 166,530
2007 134,626
2008 91,251
2009 66,623
2010 73,716
2011 70,438

People are tired of the retro styling and it does not appeal to the masses. Sales actually dropped with the introduction of the more powerful engines in 2011, following a departure from the retro styling in 2010 which increased sales. I think you can fill in the blanks here.

Also, the Coyote and Cyclone aren't going anywhere, but I'm not shocked at all that we are seing an ecoboost 4cy being introduced. Besides, it's not like this is the first four cylinder mustang.
You're leaving an important fact. The economy began tanking in 2008 and continued as well as increased gas prices. You'd have look at all car sales and by mfg. I don't the drop in mustang sales equates to body style necessarily.

Yeah it must have a certain younger generation appeal. But at the same time most people under 25 can't afford the insurance or the price of a GT. it must appeal to a broad age group.
 

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Aggiesrok said:
You're leaving an important fact. The economy began tanking in 2008 and continued as well as increased gas prices. You'd have look at all car sales and by mfg. I don't the drop in mustang sales equates to body style necessarily.

Yeah it must have a certain younger generation appeal. But at the same time most people under 25 can't afford the insurance or the price of a GT. it must appeal to a broad age group.
I mentioned the economy already. The early decrease happened around 9/11 :good:
 

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Aggiesrok said:
You're leaving an important fact. The economy began tanking in 2008 and continued as well as increased gas prices. You'd have look at all car sales and by mfg. I don't the drop in mustang sales equates to body style necessarily.

Yeah it must have a certain younger generation appeal. But at the same time most people under 25 can't afford the insurance or the price of a GT. it must appeal to a broad age group.
I think the economy played a part in us, as did gas prices, but unemployment and fuel cost were at an all time high in 2010 but there was an increase in sales which leads me to think that it wasn't the only driving factor.

Keep in mind that a lot of people under 25 can afford a v6 and they are the same platform. There is a lot more to the mustang market than the gt enthusiast crown.
 
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