[MustangSally'sMom]

First, let me say this is my first post and I'm a girl with a bad-a$$ 2012 GT (6-speed manual) who does not work on cars. I bought it used 6 yrs ago after trading in a 2009 6-cylinder automatic I bought new. Always had dealer work on it while under warranty. I got regular oil changes but neglected it somewhat and now, with only 105k miles am told I need a new engine. ($11,000.00 parts and labor by dealer). I was driving along, low on oil, tho I thought level was ok.. Car started sputtering and I was near an Auto zone, which read the code as a bad spark plug and ignition coil. Checked oil and level seemed OK, but what do I know? Anyway, the parts store guy said I needed a tune-up, basically. I slowly drove about 40-miles to local mechanic, gave him the diagnostic read-out, he replaced parts but it didn't fix the problem. New codes were thrown, he didn't fix the problem, said he had to put in 7 quarts of oil, tho I checked it only recently, and after another $800.00, I had it towed to dealer. Some of the new codes were P0349, and P0305 thru P0308. Dealer mechanic says engine fried - 4 cylinders misfiring - need new engine. What would you do? I love my car!!!

 

[crjackson]

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[Forddenial]

If you can tell us what parts were replaced by the mechanic that would be helpful.
I'm reading this as just a cam sensor/cam sensor circuit issue, right now.

P0349 is a diagnostic trouble code (DTC) for "Camshaft Position Sensor A Circuit Intermittent (Bank 2)"
^ This is the primary code

IMO, if you're having misfires on cylinders 5,6,7 and 8 AND throwing that code then there's a bunch of lazy mechanics in your area who don't know how to translate engine codes

 

[MustangSally'sMom]

Thank you for your response. I'm uploading photo of receipt from mechanic, whose really not a mustang expert - usually just does yearly inspections - who did this work before I had it towed to dealer. I tried to upload photo of receipt but had to do a screenshot because of the file extension. Can you read it? His comment about limp mode is wrong. It was never in limp mode. The check engine light was flashing when I drove it to him.

 

[Forddenial]

Yeah those are all Camshaft sensor codes and effects, from what I can tell (unless I'm reading them horribly wrong)

Did the dealer mechanic say why you needed a new motor? Unless these are catastrophic misfires or your cam/sensor/sensor wiring is messed up....

I would try to get a written reason why you need a new motor

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

First, let me say this is my first post and I'm a girl with a bad-a$$ 2012 GT (6-speed manual) who does not work on cars. I bought it used 6 yrs ago after trading in a 2009 6-cylinder automatic I bought new. Always had dealer work on it while under warranty. I got regular oil changes but neglected it somewhat and now, with only 105k miles am told I need a new engine. ($11,000.00 parts and labor by dealer). I was driving along, low on oil, tho I thought level was ok.. Car started sputtering and I was near an Auto zone, which read the code as a bad spark plug and ignition coil. Checked oil and level seemed OK, but what do I know? Anyway, the parts store guy said I needed a tune-up, basically. I slowly drove about 40-miles to local mechanic, gave him the diagnostic read-out, he replaced parts but it didn't fix the problem. New codes were thrown, he didn't fix the problem, said he had to put in 7 quarts of oil, tho I checked it only recently, and after another $800.00, I had it towed to dealer. Some of the new codes were P0349, and P0305 thru P0308. Dealer mechanic says engine fried - 4 cylinders misfiring - need new engine. What would you do? I love my car!!!

The first thing I'd do is find a competent mechanic who knows what he's doing! It sounds like you were unfortunate enough to come across a bunch of grease monkeys who don't know the difference between their mouth and their ass.
I don't know how one grease monkey can say the engine needed to be topped up with 7 quarts of oil when the oil pan capacity is 8 quarts. It's highly unlikely the engine was running on only one quart, and more likely the mechanic overfilled the engine.
Does the engine make any abnormal noises when it's running? If not, it's unlikely to have anything catastrophically wrong with it. At worst the camshaft drive system (phasers, timing chains, tensioners, guides) may need to be replaced but hopefully the fix will be more simple than that.

 

[MustangSally'sMom]

Well, the car is not drivable. It sputters and shakes, idles at 3000 rpm or shuts down when stopped, lacks power when accelerating, misfires and does all the other stuff it is supposed to when check engine light is on and blinking. I wondered about oil because the oil light never came on. When I asked the dealer mechanic why that would be, he said he is unaware "what it takes" for that to finally come on. I do know I never reset the oil to 100% using the reset buttons to left of steering wheel after oil changes, but I always thought the onboard warning light had to do with internal stuff, not resetting the settings. He did say he based his assessment on what previous guy has on the receipt I provided, but that guy told me he put three quarts in it - not seven. Bottom line, 1st guy changed ignition coil and spark plug, car still turned on but exhibited shaking, rough idle and other same problems I had when I brought it in. So he got new codes which indicated cam sensors. He replaced those, had same problems, and then codes read it was two vertical valve timing controls - one for intake and one for exhaust. It was at that point I stopped the work and had it towed to dealer, so those were not replaced. (That's when I called dealer and he said don't let him do that because he could really screw it up if he doesn't sync the coil and exhaust exactly and Ford has a special tool for that, etc.) So, tow, then "new engine"diagnosis. I must add I am a cancer patient being treated in a different state, so I need my car AND don't have 11k. Do you think I should let them do VVT's and see if that helps? Dealer claims lack of oil and cylinders 5-8 misfiring is what leads them to believe engine disaster. I admit I was 5000 miles past last oil change but did top off the entire time and no hard driving in between - just going from PA to MD for medical appointments.

 

[Forddenial]

That still shows incompetence from the mechanic at the dealership, his first thought should have been to pull the timing cover off instead of go directly to "new engine" if the new cam sensors didn't work.
You have cam sensor circuit codes which don't necessarily mean the sensors themselves

 

[MustangSally'sMom]

That still shows incompetence from the mechanic at the dealership, his first thought should have been to pull the timing cover off instead of go directly to "new engine" if the new cam sensors didn't work.
You have cam sensor circuit codes which don't necessarily mean the sensors themselves

They may have done that. I don't know. I'm sure they did some digging before coming up with "you need a new engine". But, then again, maybe not. Are you saying it would be worth installing the vertical valve timing controls first to see if that fixes the issue(s). It seems to me that the first guy's method was that if it throws a code, that is fixed, it shows a new code, fix that, rinse and repeat, eventually you get to root of problem, but maybe not. So I wasted $$ on cam sensors which I may or may not have needed. Stopped at VVT's and got "need a new engine" diagnosis. (From a dealership, no doubt). Where would a guy who KNOWS these cars go from here? Because as much as a PITA and expense it would be to have it towed from dealer to someone for a 3rd opinion, I would do that. No question 1st guy was in over his head, but he admits that. Said, "If this doesn't fix it, you will have to take it to Ford". I said, "What will they have to do?" and he said, "I have no idea". But it's not like I haven't taken it to that same dealer more than once for same problem while it was under warranty, so I am reticent to rely on their opinion - or have them do such a big, expensive job and trust they'll get it right the first time. I LOVE MY PONY! :-(

 

[Dino Dino Bambino]

The only rule you need to remember about taking your car to the stealership with a problem is that they'll always recommend the most expensive solution.
In your case, replacing the engine costs you the maximum amount in money and them the minimum amount in labor. It's a classic case of throwing parts at the problem and hoping for the best, as they did with the cam sensors.
Cam sensor codes are invariably triggered by a problem with the camshaft drive system and are seldom caused by the cam sensors themselves. It sounds like the valve covers and the front timing cover of your engine need to be removed to assess the camshaft drive system and valve train but before anyone digs that far, more basic diagnostic steps are required.
I'd recommend that each cylinder is inspected with a bore scope and compression/leak down tests performed. These will at show if there's any structural problems such as bent valves or piston damage caused by valve contact due to incorrect cam timing. It would also be a good idea to drain the oil to examine it for metal sparkles and cut open the oil filter to look for any metal flakes. If these are positive the next step is to pull the oil pan, look for any debris inside the pan and the oil pump pickup filter, and inspect the rod bearings. It's only at this point where you'll know if the engine has suffered severe damage or is healthy enough to make it worthwhile to proceed with the aforementioned camshaft drive/valvetrain assessment.
Stealerships are too lazy to perform these diagnostic steps because they cost time, and the easy way out for them is simply to replace the engine, which comes at maximum cost to you and may be completely unnecessary.

 

[MustangSally'sMom]

The only rule you need to remember about taking your car to the stealership with a problem is that they'll always recommend the most expensive solution.
In your case, replacing the engine costs you the maximum amount in money and them the minimum amount in labor. It's a classic case of throwing parts at the problem and hoping for the best, as they did with the cam sensors.
Cam sensor codes are invariably triggered by a problem with the camshaft drive system and are seldom caused by the cam sensors themselves. It sounds like the valve covers and the front timing cover of your engine need to be removed to assess the camshaft drive system and valve train but before anyone digs that far, more basic diagnostic steps are required.
I'd recommend that each cylinder is inspected with a bore scope and compression/leak down tests performed. These will at show if there's any structural problems such as bent valves or piston damage caused by valve contact due to incorrect cam timing. It would also be a good idea to drain the oil to examine it for metal sparkles and cut open the oil filter to look for any metal flakes. If these are positive the next step is to pull the oil pan, look for any debris inside the pan and the oil pump pickup filter, and inspect the rod bearings. It's only at this point where you'll know if the engine has suffered severe damage or is healthy enough to make it worthwhile to proceed with the aforementioned camshaft drive/valvetrain assessment.
Stealerships are too lazy to perform these diagnostic steps because they cost time, and the easy way out for them is simply to replace the engine, which comes at maximum cost to you and may be completely unnecessary.

Wow! Thank you! I guess the chances that they did all that before giving me a quote for a new engine are, maybe, zero? I can ask, but I am used to getting the "female discount", so I'm going to pay to have it towed somewhere else for a third opinion and hope they don't make the problem worse. Unfortunately, I live in PA and have NO idea where to find a mechanic who can actually do all that. If it's not a new engine, I have a feeling I'm going to get ripped for a few more thousand dollars before I get to the truth. Lots of mechanics claim they can, but they're not up for the job. Any idea how I could go about finding one near me? I think there is a Mustang Club in Harrisburg but I'm not a member and I don't know any other mustang owners.

 

[Forddenial]

One thing I've learned over the years about "car people" (a Mustang Club for example) is that they're extremely helpful, regardless if you're a member of their particular "club" or not.

I've gotten help with my mustang from a couple of Euro car guys, we literally spent 2 hours going digging around my engine bay to figure out why my car was spitting coolant...
Don't be worried about calling the Mustang Club in Harrisburg, give it a shot and I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surprised. Just as I'm sure I'm not the only member here who wouldn't have a problem tossing a toolbag in their car and driving out to help if you were local (unfortunately I'm in Illinois).

 

[MustangSally'sMom]

That's funny. And nice. I was planning to head out to Indiana for a convention the day after my pony broke down and I've been saying how lucky I am that I wasn't on the road when this happened. I may have been better off....:-0

 

[5LHO]

Basics here. Go to a local mechanic, ask for a compression test and/or a leakdown test. This will tell you what condition the motor is in sealing-wise. You can do this at home, if you buy a cheap compression tester and can find someone who can get the spark plugs out, which is very easy. Just ensure they pull the relay for the fuel pump so, you don't fill the engine with fuel while cranking it over. The relay is #13 in the fuse panel underhood, iirc.

 

[macgould]

Test

I tried to post on another computer, and it sent me to Google, that's why the test.

Anyway, Sally you can't go wrong checking with a Mustang Car Club. I understand money is an issue, my wife has had cancer twice. I have found Mustang Clubs to be very helpful (as are the chat boards) and often have access to recourses such as you need. Sometimes those resources are also club members and readily helpful: at least that's been my experience.

I don't know the cost of belonging to a club in your part of the country but out here it's $20.00 a year.

If, you can stay away from the dealers.